McDonalds in Temple Bar - Yay or Nay?

JupiterKid

McDonalds have had their planning application for a new outlet in Temple Bar refused by Dublin City Council. The reasons given were that Temple Bar is adequately served already by restaurants and take aways and that it would negatively affect the "cultural" quarter of Dublin.


http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/breaking/2011/0905/breaking34.html

McDonald's refused Temple Bar permit

Temple Bar: Dublin City Council has denied planning permission for a McDonald's restaurant in the area.

Irish Times

CÍAN NIHILL

Dublin City Council has denied planning permission for a McDonald's restaurant in Temple Bar.

The proposed development had met resistance from groups such as An Taisce and the Temple Bar Cultural Trust who argued that its construction would detract from the cultural, artistic and historic character of the area.

The US-based fast food giant had hoped to locate itself on the site of Frankie's Steakhouse and Bar at Temple Bar Square.

Explaining its decision, Dublin City Council said that Temple Bar was already adequately served by restaurants, that the building in question was a protected structure and that adding a McDonald's would add to the space congestion in what is a small public space.

On its website, the council said that the introduction of another take-away facility into the area would have a "detrimental impact on the mix of uses within the Temple Bar area which already has an ample supply of restaurants."

The council also found fault with the proposal to insert automatic doors, which it said, would "negatively detract from the building's specific historic character".

The council further argued that the addition of McDonald's would overcrowd what is already a busy area.

"It is considered that the proposed development which will result in the intensification of the existing restaurant use on a site adjoining this space will have a significant negative impact on this public space by reason of congregation and further congestion on this space which is restricted in size and already oversubscribed at peak trading times," they said.

The council added that to allow planning permission for the building would be "contrary to the proper planning and sustainable development of the area".

McDonald's now have four weeks to appeal the decision to Dublin City Council after which they can appeal again to An Bord Pleanála.

Aard

Boo! A plain "no" is the easy way out. McDonald's have enough money (not to mention the will and desire) to set up shop in a tasteful manner. Dublin City Council could have at least said "yes" with a long list of strict provisions -- and McDonald's still would have shelled out the cash to do it.

Planning needs to be more flexible in this country, not more rigid. There's no creativity.

BeerNut

Aard wrote: »

Dublin City Council could have at least said "yes" with a long list of strict provisions

With one of them being "Don't serve any food"?

Dublin City Council said that Temple Bar was already adequately served by restaurants

There's not really a way around that one, if the applicant is a restaurant, is there?

Davy

BeerNut wrote: »

With one of them being "Don't serve any food"?

There's not really a way around that one, if the applicant is a restaurant, is there?

Their was already a restaurant in the building, so they should have had a more solid reason

jack presley

An Bord Pleanala will probably give them permission on appeal.

Davy

jack presley wrote: »

An Bord Pleanala will probably give them permission on appeal.

I hope they do actually, once they make sure the building is done properly. It is another 60 jobs afterall

trellheim

As I recall McDonalds are strong on using a lot of Irish produce.

I wonder if you asked every other restaurant where they get their beef or dairy what answer you'd get. Same for their hygiene. You go to lots of other old cities round the world and mcdonalds blends in quite well in many places.

JupiterKid

I'm personally delighted that McDonalds was denied planning permission for an outlet in Temple Bar. Perhaps this can mark a turning point for the better in the erstwhile "cultural" quarter's fortunes?

I've no problem with McDonalds per se - but it's not appropriate for Temple Bar.

ixoy

JupiterKid wrote: »

I'm personally delighted that McDonalds was denied planning permission for an outlet in Temple Bar. Perhaps this can mark a turning point for the better in the erstwhile "cultural" quarter's fortunes?

Well given one of the reasons for refusal is that it would be too successful, how is this a turn around in fortunes? It seems that any alternative will draw in less people/money.

I've no problem with McDonalds per se - but it's not appropriate for Temple Bar.

Disagree. I mean it's good enough for Venice and Venice is approximately 1,463 times more culturual and better preserved/maintained than Temple Bar is.

Tiocfaidh Armani

There's a Abrakebabra so don't know why a McD's wouldn't be allowed.

honru

JupiterKid wrote: »

I've no problem with McDonalds per se - but it's not appropriate for Temple Bar.

And yet the likes of Abrakebabra, Subway, Hungry Harry's, etc. are?

JupiterKid

f®eak s©enery wrote: »

And yet the likes of Abrakebabra, Subway, Hungry Harry's, etc. are?

No, they're not OK as far as I'm concerned. The rot in Temple bar began when cheap eateries and superpubs began to colonise the area. Putting in a McDonalds would send out the wrong signals.

Remember that 2,000 people live in Temple Bar and they have to put up with excessive noise, littering and anti-social behaviour every weekend. This is not the Temple Bar that was envisaged back in 1991 when the framework plan was drawn up for the area.

What happened to the independent shops and eateries like the Bad Ass Cafe that gave Temple bar so much of its original charm?

Coriolanus

JupiterKid wrote: »

What happened to the independent shops and eateries like the Bad Ass Cafe that gave Temple bar so much of its original charm?

The Bad Ass has been a hole for as long as I can remember.

StephenHendry

the surprise imo is that mcdonalds didnt look to go there a lot sooner, frankies was ok but i preferred GBK across the road from it

starviewadams

Glad they got approval,will hardly lower the tone of Temple Bar anymore then it currently is.Plus 80 new jobs is not to be sniffed at either.

JupiterKid

starviewadams wrote: »

Glad they got approval,will hardly lower the tone of Temple Bar anymore then it currently is.Plus 80 new jobs is not to be sniffed at either.

So McDonalds won their appeal then? The final nail in the coffin of Temple Bar has been hammered in.:(

Paparazzo

JupiterKid wrote: »

No, they're not OK as far as I'm concerned. The rot in Temple bar began when cheap eateries and superpubs began to colonise the area. Putting in a McDonalds would send out the wrong signals.

Remember that 2,000 people live in Temple Bar and they have to put up with excessive noise, littering and anti-social behaviour every weekend. This is not the Temple Bar that was envisaged back in 1991 when the framework plan was drawn up for the area.

What happened to the independent shops and eateries like the Bad Ass Cafe that gave Temple bar so much of its original charm?

It has as much charm as a skidmark in your boxers on a saturday night. I used to go out regularly there, but haven't in years. I think there's a special "temple bar tax" on beer in there.

my friend

brilliant news

http://www.herald.ie/news/mcdonalds-wins-battle-of-temple-bar-3124732.html

citizens must realise that business' that pay rent, taxes and rates are the business' that will exist

they exist because they have customers

there is no point in fooling yourselves otherwise

rubadub

"I'm both surprised and disappointed at the decision by An Bord Pleanala. It is not the sort of thing that will attract tourists so I certainly believe it is a backward step."

I always thought mcdonalds were popular with tourists all around the world, as it is so uniform so picky eaters who want food they know go there, picky as in not wanting to try different things, not saying its gourmet food, but they know a big mac in mongolia will be similar to here. Lots of tourists have no interest in trying local foods.

I imagine they will be cautious in how they decorate the outside, for fear of a backlash, so it could end up being less imposing than if say supermacs got the place.

later12

Temple Bar isn't perfect, but for what it's worth I can think of plenty of cool, original, creative stores, galleries and exhibitions that I've seen or experienced there.

Of course you have drunk people and fast food at night time. That's life. Temple Bar is a living, breathing quarter of the city. It cannot and should not be some stale, idealistic garrison of high culture - or rather, what some art history graduate has deemed high culture to include. If that's what you want for Temple Bar, then you should expect to traverse its cobbled streets in splendid isolation when visiting crowds go elsewhere.

It's a McDonalds. Like it or not, it says something about us as a society, and it meets the needs of those who use the Temple Bar quarter. It isn't the end of the world lads.

LabMan_

starviewadams wrote: »

Glad they got approval,will hardly lower the tone of Temple Bar anymore then it currently is.Plus 80 new jobs is not to be sniffed at either.

80 low skilled jobs is great alright, sure who cares about the current staff on Frankie's eh!

kinsy

Are they taking over the whole building as originally planned? If so, I object because it means my friends will be evicted... another repercussion

LabMan_

Mr.S wrote: »

Don't understand how people can object to them coming in tbh.

It's not going to bring down the area at all, all this waffle about wrecking the cultural side of temple bar etc :rolleyes:

The building will stay the same, it'l look nice (just look at Bray + others) and it'l be fine.

What in gods name is the point of making it close at midnight though? Charlies (a horrible place) about 30 seconds away (plus loads others nearby) are allowed open past midnight

Hey Ronald.

starviewadams

LabMan_ wrote: »

80 low skilled jobs is great alright, sure who cares about the current staff on Frankie's eh!

Better then 0 low skilled jobs in this day and age.I know plenty of people who would be glad of one.

The 3 other fast food restaurants in TB (Charlies,Hungry Harry's and Abrakebabra)are much more of an eyesore then any McDonalds restaurant that I can think of in Dublin.

LabMan_

starviewadams wrote: »

Better then 0 low skilled jobs in this day and age.I know plenty of people who would be glad of one.

The 3 other fast food restaurants in TB (Charlies,Hungry Harry's and Abrakebabra)are much more of an eyesore then any McDonalds restaurant that I can think of in Dublin.

And the currently employed staff can go to hell can they?

Zhane

LabMan_ wrote: »

And the currently employed staff can go to hell can they?

We dont know the ins and outs of the takeover. I would imagine the current staff are welcome to apply for the new jobs.

A Disgrace

starviewadams wrote: »

Glad they got approval,will hardly lower the tone of Temple Bar anymore then it currently is.Plus 80 new jobs is not to be sniffed at either.

How many of the 80 jobs will realistically be filled by Irish people though

listermint

A Disgrace wrote: »

How many of the 80 jobs will realistically be filled by Irish people though

They have as much right to apply as anyone, whats your point ??? ? ?? ? ?

A Disgrace

listermint wrote: »

They have as much right to apply as anyone, whats your point ??? ? ?? ? ?

Of course they do. However, more Irish staff means more money staying in the economy. Surely it's not a crime to want to see more Irish people employed?

arybvtcw0eolkf

A Disgrace wrote: »

Of course they do. However, more Irish staff means more money staying in the economy. Surely it's not a crime to want to see more Irish people employed?

You're going beyond the remit of the Dublin City Forum now.