Late start in programing

endainoz

Hello programmers,

after many years of not having any idea what to do with my life, I've started to learn Java and I have to say I'm really enjoying it and hope to keep learning as much of it as i can. Eventually when i know enough about it I'd like to join some open source projects to get some "real" experience but for now I'm quite happy learning from TheNewBoston.com which is an excellent website for complete beginners in the field, everything is explained in an easy to understand way and the lessons are quite easy to follow.

My question is: what are the prospects for a possible career for me in programing without any degree from college? I would be willing to do the exam to become a certified programmer down the line when I think i know enough about it. For now I'd like to specialize in Java but will branch out to other languages in the future. Unpaid internships would not be a problem for me either. Thanks for reading this, this is a very helpful section of boards and hopefully you can steer me in the right direction!

Enda

Kidchameleon

If you keep at it and get a few projects under your belt, of course its possible to land a paid job somewhere. As far as having a degree, well if your sending off CV's, some companies will filter out the non degree ones before they even look at them.

Good Luck.

endainoz

Thanks for the advice, I'll keep learning Java for now anyway and keep updating whatever progress I make.

Axe Rake

I personally think you should first learn C properly and once you have understood most of its functionality and tricks to a high degree you should move onto C++.

Learning java is like learning math in secondary schools. You are spoon fed everything but do not learn about the true functionality underneath it all.

A definitive start would be reading the book C Programming Language by Kernighan & Ritchie

Good luck

Royale with Cheese

You'll be fine to start with Java. I attended ucd and dcu and they both teach the fundamentals of object oriented programming through Java. C or C++ is taught later, probably because they're a bit harder.

While learning C would obviously be useful, a lot of the features like memory management or pointers are things you'll never have to use in a more modern language like Java or C#.

Cool Mo D

Axe Rake wrote: »

I personally think you should first learn C properly and once you have understood most of its functionality and tricks to a high degree you should move onto C++.

Learning java is like learning math in secondary schools. You are spoon fed everything but do not learn about the true functionality underneath it all.

A definitive start would be reading the book C Programming Language by Kernighan & Ritchie

Good luck

Learning C as a first language is a bad idea. There is too much frustration involved in doing basic things, that are easy in a more high-level language.

The best way to learn programming is to have a small task or project in mind, and start implementing it in whatever language has good tutorials, or nice libraries, or is the standard tool for the sort of task you're doing. For a beginning programmer, that language is almost definitely not C.

Pygmalion

Cool Mo D wrote: »

Learning C as a first language is a bad idea. There is too much frustration involved in doing basic things, that are easy in a more high-level language.

The best way to learn programming is to have a small task or project in mind, and start implementing it in whatever language has good tutorials, or nice libraries, or is the standard tool for the sort of task you're doing. For a beginning programmer, that language is almost definitely not C.

IMO if you're serious about wanting to program you might as well dive in, it's stuff you'll be learning eventually anyway, and it seems to be much harder to pick up things like memory management and pointer arithmetic when you're used to an interpreter or other runtime environment doing everything for you.

It'd be different if OP just wanted to write some simple programs for himself, in which case knowing details isn't always that important, but for someone considering a career he might as well dive into the more interesting stuff.

Royale with Cheese

You could easily make a career without ever having to go near memory management or pointers.

endainoz

Thanks again for all the advice guys, I'm still going through TheNewBostons tutorials, about half way through the first 80 or so videos and I'm really enjoying it. The job I'm doing at the moment gives me a few hours free during the day so its perfect for learning. I've had a little experience with programing from a few years back, a little BASIC on the C64 from years ago and a little HTML (if you consider that a language!) so the whole thing isn't entirely alien to me.

Anyway I'm going to stick with these Java tutorials until the end and see how i go from there, probably onto some text for intermediates?

Thanks again

Cool Mo D

Pygmalion wrote: »

IMO if you're serious about wanting to program you might as well dive in, it's stuff you'll be learning eventually anyway, and it seems to be much harder to pick up things like memory management and pointer arithmetic when you're used to an interpreter or other runtime environment doing everything for you.

It'd be different if OP just wanted to write some simple programs for himself, in which case knowing details isn't always that important, but for someone considering a career he might as well dive into the more interesting stuff.

I don't accept this at all. I started with C, got nowhere, learned python, and am now going back to learn C++. Learning about pointers, references, and manual memory management is much easier when you already have plenty of practise working with types, functions, operators, loops and conditionals. Starting with C is like training for a marathon when you don't even know how to tie your runners.

And I find that almost everyone who really wants to learn to program is interested in actually producing working applications, much more than learning the theory.

stevenmu

Royale with Cheese wrote: »

You could easily make a career without ever having to go near memory management or pointers.

+1.

If you're learning how to be a chef you don't want to spend loads of your time cleaning pots and pans. Ideally you get someone else to do it for you, and if you find yourself in a situation where you need to do it yourself, you can pick it up pretty easily.

veryangryman

Royale with Cheese wrote: »

You could easily make a career without ever having to go near memory management or pointers.

Indeed - thank holy feck!

Hellm0

Your best bet is to get into web development, its by far the most porous sector of development. Easier to get sites up and out there than applications, and the exposure will stand to you. Java is probably not the best choice for starting out, I would recommend learning C first and then moving on to C#/ASP.net or the arguably more accessible PHP.

Another avenue of interest may be mobile development. That means learning objective C or Java, and if you don't currently own/can't afford a mac then that may make the decision easier(IOS apps can only be developed on a Macintoy). Many companies are salivating over devs with IOS/Android at the moment, which will make it a little easier to overcome the lack of academic credentials. Honestly though, once you get to a certain point in your career the piece of paper means next to nothing, all that matters is how capable you are.

Best of luck.

* BTW: Learning C first has little to do with exposing ones self to memory management techniques(though useful) and more to do with familiarization with syntax, sequential programming(helps to give context to OOP) and the fact that C is just a plain old beautiful language.

endainoz

Thank again for all the opinions, I plan to learn some of the theory behind a few languages, and eventually specializing in one of them to begin with. Long way to go in it yet though so I'm not expecting all this to fall into place over night! It will take a lot of time. patience and effort but I'm very motivated about this so far...hope it continues for another while!

stevenmu

Hellm0 wrote: »

Your best bet is to get into web development, its by far the most porous sector of development. Easier to get sites up and out there than applications, and the exposure will stand to you. Java is probably not the best choice for starting out, I would recommend learning C first and then moving on to C#/ASP.net or the arguably more accessible PHP.

Personally I'd disagree with this. I think starting out with web development is adding an extra layer of complexity at the start that'll only distract from the fundamentals. I'd believe that a beginner should be focusing on the pure basics, without the extra complications of worrying about HTML/Javascrtip/CSS output. Simple console apps are the way to start out, and then move on to GUI/web stuff.

I also disagre with the concept of starting out with the intention of learning one language only to move on to another. If someone is aiming to end up using C# or Java then that's where I think they should start. I don't think that learning C first really adds any value, and only introduces more complication by way of relearning stuff in a different language.

Evil Phil

There's to much involved in web programming, GET and POST, stateless, etc for a beginner to get a grasp. Focus on console applications initially stevenmu said, it will teach you the basics of programming in a simple environment.