21 years for mass murder of children

mike65

(excuse me starting this as a separate thread)

Anders Behring Breivik who is now in custody has been charged and is apparently fully cooperating with police will be subject to a sentence of no greater than 21 years as this is the maximum sentence that can be handed down under Norwegian law.

How soft, how out of touch is this country? Even a social liberal like me is completely boggled at hearing this a short time ago. What do the Norwegians do with serial rapists or recidivist child molesters? Are there different laws for those considered criminally insane?

Any Nordic boardsies care to comment?

MagicMarker

I'm sure he can be given 80 life sentences to be served successively.

If only an Irish court would give someone 20+ years for murder, we're in no position to question their judicial system.

CardBordWindow

mike65 wrote: »

(excuse me starting this as a separate thread)

Anders Behring Breivik who is now in custody has been charged and is apparently fully cooperating with police will be subject to a sentence of no greater than 21 years as this is the maximum sentence that can be handed down under Norwegian law.

How soft, how out of touch is this country? Even a social liberal like me is completely boggled at hearing this a short time ago. What do the Norwegians do with serial rapists or recidivist child molesters? Are there different laws for those considered criminally insane?

Any Nordic boardsies care to comment?

Sure if someone gets a life sentence here, the odds are they'll be out in about 15 years with good behaviour!

mike65

The point is that there is no option to impose a minimum tariff only a maximum one as far as I can tell. Here the so called GUBU killer Malcolm Daniel Edward Macarthur is still in jail after 28 years, and that is for the death one one woman (he actually killed two people)

Absurdum

They have something called forvaring, which means that a prisoner has to be a non-threat to society before he can be released, so after 21 years they can still keep him in custody. If he makes it that far of course.

AudreyHepburn

In this country he might not even get charged with murder, it could be manslaughter or diminished capacity, so we are not in any position to critise them.

WindSock

Aw, he's pretty. He's no reason to be angry with the world. Still though, didn't realise that many were killed. Doubt he will ever get out and function normally in society again.

AudreyHepburn

WindSock wrote: »

Aw, he's pretty.

desertcircus

Well, given that Norway's intentional homicide rate was less than half of ours before this happened, I reckon it's a little odd to declare them soft and out of touch. They seem to have been doing pretty well up to now. Ireland's is 1.25 intentional homicides per hundred thousand people per year; Norway's sits at 0.6 and even after the horrific events of yesterday will rise to about 2.6 for a single year, leaving it still just barely above its neighbour Finland on 2.5, and it'll most likely drop back to the 0.6 level from next year on.

I don't get this obsession with softness and whether or not people are getting long enough sentences. Surely if your crime rate is dropping or staying low, your criminal justice policy is doing well? Would Norway really be better off messing around with part of an overarching policy of liberalism that's made them one of the least violent countries on earth up till now?

Duckworth_Luas

WindSock wrote: »

Aw, he's pretty.....

...fucked up in the head!

Jesus Wept

Why are the pretty ones always the crazy ones?

mattjack

mike65 wrote: »

The point is that there is no option to impose a minimum tariff only a maximum one as far as I can tell. Here the so called GUBU killer Malcolm Daniel Edward Macarthur is still in jail after 28 years, and that is for the death one one woman (he actually killed two people)

In fact you can be detained forever in Ireland, I think a life sentence is reviewed after 10 to 12 years in Ireland by the parole boards I think there may be one or two prisoners in jail longer than McArthur and a few convicted of killing Gardai were sentenced to serve 40 years,though I think they can seek remission.

Crazy Horse 6

mike65 wrote: »

(excuse me starting this as a separate thread)

Anders Behring Breivik who is now in custody has been charged and is apparently fully cooperating with police will be subject to a sentence of no greater than 21 years as this is the maximum sentence that can be handed down under Norwegian law.

How soft, how out of touch is this country? Even a social liberal like me is completely boggled at hearing this a short time ago. What do the Norwegians do with serial rapists or recidivist child molesters? Are there different laws for those considered criminally insane?

Any Nordic boardsies care to comment?

In this country you get 10 for murder and 12 if you defraud the social welfare system. We are hardly in any position to judge Norway.

Yakult

mike65 wrote: »

How soft, how out of touch is this country?

I thought you were talking about Ireland for a second, pretty sure it can be related back to the justice system here too.

FloatingVoter

Norway had a serial killer before....

linky http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arnfinn_Nesset

22 dead and still out in 21 years.

mike65

:rolleyes: this thread IS NOT ABOUT IRELAND, its about a country that appears not to be able to protect itself.

Run_to_da_hills

Crazy Horse 6 wrote: »

In this country you get 10 for murder and 12 if you defraud the social welfare system. We are hardly in any position to judge Norway.

Not to mention 5 for the possession of a bong. :pac:

Namlub

Yeah, you'd never see anyone in Ireland getting a lenient sentence...

Jesus Wept

Norway has one of the very lowest homicide rates in the world, less than half what ours is. They seem to be doing a very good job of protecting themselves in this regard.

Yakult

Supposedly 21 years is the hardest sentence their justice system has. Thats crazy!!

ilovesleep

Ireland allows child rapists, usually of the priest kind, to rape for decades which goes unpunished. Hows that for maddness?

desertcircus

Seriously: why do people think the Norwegians are crazy? They're doing better than us: their homicide rate is lower than ours is. Why on earth is it crazy to keep going with a policy that works better than the alternative? Is there a magic number of years on a sentence that people would be happy with?

Norway has fewer murders per head of population than Ireland does. By definition, their criminal justice policy is doing better than ours is in deterring murders. Why on earth is anybody judging a criminal justice system on anything other than the fact that Norway HAS LESS CRIME?

Mr. Denton

WindSock wrote: »

Aw, he's pretty. He's no reason to be angry with the world. Still though, didn't realise that many were killed. Doubt he will ever get out and function normally in society again.

If he gets out he'll never get invited to a costume party anyway.

Absurdum

can't any of you read?

Absurdum wrote: »

They have something called forvaring, which means that a prisoner has to be a non-threat to society before he can be released, so after 21 years they can still keep him in custody. If he makes it that far of course.

karma_

Absurdum wrote: »

can't any of you read?

Indeed, read about this on another site, basically a mechanism to keep him locked away Ad infinitum. Although the same writer made the prediction that we should expect Norway to be attacked as being naive and soft when this guy eventually gets locked away for life (21 years) by those who are ignorant of this feature of Norwegian law.

Princess Consuela Bananahammock

mike65 wrote: »

:rolleyes: this thread IS NOT ABOUT IRELAND, its about a country that appears not to be able to protect itself.

If we started talking about Texas and the electric chair and how there's no crime there, would you be happy?

mattjack

Absurdum wrote: »

can't any of you read?

yes I can,I think its similar to our parole system

Paigne

Crazy Horse 6 wrote: »

In this country you get 10 for murder and 12 if you defraud the social welfare system. We are hardly in any position to judge Norway.

You get 5 for murder if you say "He/she started it!" in court.

We can't judge any other judicial system IMO.

7sr2z3fely84g5

mattjack wrote: »

In fact you can be detained forever in Ireland, I think a life sentence is reviewed after 10 to 12 years in Ireland by the parole boards I think there may be one or two prisoners in jail longer than McArthur and a few convicted of killing Gardai were sentenced to serve 40 years,though I think they can seek remission.

Geffery evans serving life since 1978,in coma at moment so costing taxpayer a fortune for round the clock security http://www.independent.ie/national-news/murderous-sex-predator-in-coma-on-life-support-1591625.html

Jimmy ennis since 1964- http://www.herald.ie/national-news/longest-serving-prisoner-to-get-out-1726088.html

Our lifer system is bit strange instead of uk system of a tarrif,the justice minister has the final word,so the next justice minister when elected could go against the previous justice minister recommendation.

Most bizzare case is in columbia where the killer admitted to 100+ victims but by the country law the max sentence can serve is 30 years- http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Luis_Garavito

Norwayviking

The-Rigger wrote: »

Why are the pretty ones always the crazy ones?

Are you talking about my wife;)

Norwayviking

mike65 wrote: »

:rolleyes: this thread IS NOT ABOUT IRELAND, its about a country that appears not to be able to protect itself.

And what country is that???:rolleyes:

Chuck Stone

desertcircus wrote: »

By definition, their criminal justice policy is doing better than ours is in deterring murders.

I suspect it's not the criminal justice system.

Norwayviking

mike65 wrote: »

(excuse me starting this as a separate thread)

Anders Behring Breivik who is now in custody has been charged and is apparently fully cooperating with police will be subject to a sentence of no greater than 21 years as this is the maximum sentence that can be handed down under Norwegian law.

How soft, how out of touch is this country? Even a social liberal like me is completely boggled at hearing this a short time ago. What do the Norwegians do with serial rapists or recidivist child molesters? Are there different laws for those considered criminally insane?

Any Nordic boardsies care to comment?

Well to compare the Irish vs Norwegian Law system is a bit out of proportion.
We are talking to completely different nations in all aspects,and all have their positive and negative sides.
The main thing in this case is that they caught the fecker that done it,and that he gets the penalty,either its 21 years or life.
Just think that this man has to live with this for the rest of his life ,that he took nearly 100 innocent lifes,so i hope he has nightmares every feckin night about it:mad:
And i hope he gets a "good" relationship with his fellow inmates;)
This kind of acts are not very popular amongst inmates in Norwegian prisons i hear:eek:

Lux23

I don't believe he will ever get to walk down a street as a free man again, I am sure they have institutions for the criminally insane in Norway.

Angron

I remember Varg Vikernes got 21 years too, and he murdered Øystein Aarseth, and was convicted of the arson of 4 churches. Gotta love that Norwegian black metal scene.


And even in prison, he managed to release 2 albums, though they were quite minimalist..

Overheal

I don't get this obsession with softness and whether or not people are getting long enough sentences. Surely if your crime rate is dropping or staying low, your criminal justice policy is doing well?

Or Crime Reporting has slumped, because nobody can be bothered. Or the reports aren't being filed, or any number of things. I guarantee you there is plenty of crime that happens around you that never goes reported and never gets filed, and never makes it onto that statistic you sleep with under your pillow.

Overflow

You sir have no idea what you are talking about !

Overheal

Overflow wrote: »

You sir have no idea what you are talking about !

I hear a bark but I see no teeth.

Jesus Wept

Norwayviking wrote: »

Are you talking about my wife;)

I'm talking about everyone's wife.

nacho libre

what percentage of murderers in Norway over the last 30 years are serving indefinite terms( this forvaring thing)?

Corkfeen

nacho libre wrote: »

what percentage of murderers in Norway over the last 30 years are serving indefinite terms( this forvaring thing)?

I'm sure they'll have no problem using it for a man who has killed nearly a 100 people in a few hours.

Demonique

WindSock wrote: »

Aw, he's pretty. He's no reason to be angry with the world. Still though, didn't realise that many were killed. Doubt he will ever get out and function normally in society again.

If you think he's pretty you need your eyes tested

Victor

Overheal wrote: »

Or Crime Reporting has slumped, because nobody can be bothered. Or the reports aren't being filed, or any number of things. I guarantee you there is plenty of crime that happens around you that never goes reported and never gets filed, and never makes it onto that statistic you sleep with under your pillow.

In fairness, most murders do get reported.

StinkyMunkey

Regardless of how long he spends in prison or what country hands down whatever sentence for whatever crime, this evil piece of filth will get his 3 meals a day, be protected from his fellow inmates, and still be entitled to his basic human rights:mad:.

Thousands of people have been directly affected by his evil acts, both family and friends of the dead and injured:mad:.

The evil coward didnt even have the decency to blow his brains out once he was cornered:mad:.

And if by some miracle he is released, he will no doubt be given a new identity and start in life:mad:.

No amount of years in prison can atone or recompense for any of his acts:mad:.

Not being a religious person, all i can do is hope there is a hell, because if there is he will no doubt spend eternity in the hottest part of it along with others of his kind:mad:.

Princess Consuela Bananahammock

Considereing the youngest victim was 23, why is this thread titled the mass muder of "children"??

charlemont

Crazy Horse 6 wrote: »

In this country you get 10 for murder and 12 if you defraud the social welfare system. We are hardly in any position to judge Norway.

10 for murder ?? Any links ? Or are you confusing manslaughter ?

sdanseo

Sentence is irrelevant - he's almost certainly going to be proven clinically insane and committed to an institution rather than a regular prison. Where with any luck he can rot.

As for sentences here in ireland, bloody hell don't get me started. On a thread here not long back - 12 years for dole dodging, 8 years with one suspended for running over a Garda with a car and killing him. Our judges are living in la-la land.

amacachi

Victor wrote: »

In fairness, most murders do get reported.

When (as the vast majority do in this country) it ends up as a manslaughter conviction does it still count as a "murder"? :pac:

ToniTuddle

Ikky Poo2 wrote: »

Considereing the youngest victim was 23, why is this thread titled the mass muder of "children"??

Have they released all the names and ages yet?
Article I just read listed out the names and details of two younger victims than that at 21 and 20.

Norwayviking

ToniTuddle wrote: »

Have they released all the names and ages yet?
Article I just read listed out the names and details of two younger victims than that at 21 and 20.

they where all kids in the ages from 12 to 20-21.:mad:
And some names have been released,some even on television.
One teacher was interviewed on telly yesterday,and i believe he lost 4-5 pupils in his class aged 12-13 years of age.

Overheal

Victor wrote: »

In fairness, most murders do get reported.

Weigh it against Missing Persons though.