Would you pay €240 ($349.99) for 1GB broadband.

TechnoKid

Ring up Eircom and ask them about it?

TechnoKid

Johnmb wrote: »

Yeah, look at them. Still not making as much money as DVD/Blu Ray sales.

You think wrong. Most people still like the feeling of owning something physical, and most people would rather give something as a gift rather than email a link.

VOD is still new to some people but people who use it would pick it any day over Blu-Ray/DVD in physical formats. Also, Did Blu-Ray make as much sales as DVD after a year or two of it becoming commercially available? No but Streaming is rapidly growing. How do you know this? From personal experience? This could be the minority or majority you've seen. So, you're saying people would prefer a DVD they CAN'T put onto their ipod, iphone, android, etc ?

johnmcdnl

Johnmb wrote: »

You think wrong. Most people still like the feeling of owning something physical, and most people would rather give something as a gift rather than email a link.

i love the feeling of owning something physical alright... my harddrive full of music and videos and my ipod

which i will actually use to watch/listen to my media... unlike the cd.. which will sit on a shelf or in a box gathering dust for years to come as I will have just copied it onto my harddrive or ipod and hence won't need a physical copy of the cd again..

vibe666

Johnmb wrote: »

Yeah, look at them. Still not making as much money as DVD/Blu Ray sales.

Play.com, amazon.com, etc are the cause of that, not downloading.

You think wrong. Most people still like the feeling of owning something physical, and most people would rather give something as a gift rather than email a link.

Good for you. You've have just proven you are far from being a typical user. 10 years ago dvds were the only real choice for legally viewing movies at home (not counting the remnants of VHS).

you seem very sure of yourself, care to back it up with some evidence?

i'm pretty confident that any rise in sales by online physical media sales outlets like amazon etc. aren't going to come anywhere near to equalising the losses by high street retailers.

still, despite that you only have to look at the likes of itunes and amazon mp3 to see that they are decimating the CD sales market and that's not even counting the pirate element. DVD is dead thanks to a joint effort by the competing HD standards (both physical and internet based) and with 100mbps already available in a lot of areas of Ireland and the UK, it's only a matter of time before Blu-Rays go the same way.

i don't blame you for sounding bitter though, if i'd invested thousands of euro's into moving my DVD collection to blu-ray only for it to die out before it even got going, i'd be pretty bitter too. i remember how miffed my dad was when betamax bit the dust.

I have a huge collection of movies and TV shows too.

here it is.

Johnmb

vibe666 wrote: »

you seem very sure of yourself, care to back it up with some evidence?

i'm pretty confident that any rise in sales by online physical media sales outlets like amazon etc. aren't going to come anywhere near to equalising the losses by high street retailers.

still, despite that you only have to look at the likes of itunes and amazon mp3 to see that they are decimating the CD sales market and that's not even counting the pirate element. DVD is dead thanks to a joint effort by the competing HD standards (both physical and internet based) and with 100mbps already available in a lot of areas of Ireland and the UK, it's only a matter of time before Blu-Rays go the same way.

See, that's where you are making the mistake. You seem to think that cds and dvds/bds are in the same boat. They're not. CDs do music. Music is played on portable devices, easy to carry around and bring with you. Movies are played on large TVs, that are getting larger and larger, not very easy to carry around. If you want to bring some new music to a friends house, just bring your iPod and slot it into your friends speaker system. If you want to watch a movie in your friends house what are you expected to do? Bring your whole computer with you? DVDs and BDs may not be still here in 10 years, but they'll be replaced by something physical. iTunes is great for me, but if I want to give a movie (or even a CD) to my father, or to a friend who lives down the sticks with a crappy internet connection, iTunes ain't much use. And crappy internet connections aren't just here in Ireland, the UK have them too, as does the US, the largest market in the English speaking world, and often the only one that matters as far as the film studios are concerned.

i don't blame you for sounding bitter though, if i'd invested thousands of euro's into moving my DVD collection to blu-ray only for it to die out before it even got going, i'd be pretty bitter too. i remember how miffed my dad was when betamax bit the dust.

I didn't move my DVD collection to Blu Ray, the player is backwards compatible so no need (except for one or two movies that I just felt needed to be seen in full HD). The disc (either form) will be replaced down the road, just like when tape was, and when that happens and my player starts to get in the way, then I'll decide what films I want to replace with the new format, just like I did with the switch from VHS to DVD. That'll be a decision you'll have to make too, when a new encryption format comes out and they stop supporting the current ones, so it's not unique to physical media. While a minority of people may have fast internet connections, most don't, and that will be the way for a long, long time to come, so physical media will be needed for large things like HD movies.

NIMAN

Johnmb wrote: »

Doubt it, most people still like to have physical items.

A lot of people who like to have 'physical' items tend to end up trying to flog them for sweet FA in car boot sales a few years down the line;)

I have hundreds of music CDs, and maybe 60 or so old DVDs and I could hardly give them away now. Blu-Rays will be like this in the next few years too, you can bet on that.

I have posted on some forums before about how buying DVDs was the biggest waste of money in recent times. Most people rarely watch a film more than a 2 or 3 times, then they just gather dust. Many don't make it out of the plastic wrapping!

For this reason I stopped buying DVDs as presents many moons ago. At least with CDs its slightly different in that many people could take them in the car with them. Now of course CDs are redundant with all the ripping/downloading of music on to MP3/iPods etc.

vibe666

Johnmb wrote: »

See, that's where you are making the mistake. You seem to think that cds and dvds/bds are in the same boat. They're not. CDs do music. Music is played on portable devices, easy to carry around and bring with you. Movies are played on large TVs, that are getting larger and larger, not very easy to carry around.

no mate, that would be where you are wrong (again). i was using music CD's as a historical example to try and make it easier for you to see the way DVD's have gone and where blu-rays are going to be going.

i have a 1tb 2.5" usb drive that will comfortably fit in my pocket and runs off usb power that i could comfortably fit well over 100+ 1080p movie rips on, or 1300 DVD rips if i wanted to. i can take it anywhere i like and plug it into any computer or most modern tv's with a usb port and watch whatever i like wherever i like.

how does that compare with you taking 150 blu-ray's or 1300 dvd's round to your mates house to watch? :rolleyes:

also, for less than 50 quid, you can buy a 1080p media player (with remote) that is smaller than a pack of cards and will play back pretty much any file you throw at it, which is very handy for business trips or keeping the kids entertained on holiday.

you can buy 64gb sd cards and usb flash drives very cheaply now that will hold plenty of HD movies or almost 100 dvdrips, or even just half that on a 32gb miroSD card smaller than your little fingernail. how portable would you like?

you seem to be mistaking a strong opinion for a strong argument., physical media is dying a death. it takes up too much room, it costs too much and it's far too inflexible to be practical in this day and age.

i can be watching a movie on my big screen tv and then pop it onto a microSD card an take it with me and watch it on the road on my phone if i really want to. does your phone have a dvd or blu-ray drive built in?

i don't even need to do that, i can access every piece of media i have from almost any device with an internet connection, be it either streaming to a computer on the other side of the world or even to my mobile phone on the road if the mood took me. how many of your blu-rays, dvd's or cd's can you get instant access to when you're not physically in your home?

also, re: backwards compatibility. digital media is always going to be compatible with current technology, there's no reason for it not to be. my PC will happily play any media file thrown at it, from blu-ray rips to ancient long dead video-cd rips, or even CD+G karaoke CD's and everything in between.

50 years from now your blu-rays will likely have degraded so much that they will be useless, whereas pretty much everything i currently have will still be out there in the cloud, multiple copies, stored online forever and taking up a tiny fraction of the (already insignificant) physical space it takes up now, my entire move and TV collection and more will probably fit on something the size of a microSD card.

i can guarantee to you right now (and i'll happily put money on it) that there will be no physical successor to blu-ray, it will be the last generation of physical media to exist for mainstream consumer society unless you want to count usb flash drives.

if you want a hint of what's to come, look at apple. the macbook air has no optical drive at all, the mac mini has just dropped the optical drive (and it's primary use is as a media player), the next generation of macbook pro won't have one either and if you want to buy a physical copy of OSX Lion instead of downloading it, it will come on a USB drive, there's no DVD option at all.

Johnmb

vibe666 wrote: »

no mate, that would be where you are wrong (again). i was using music CD's as a historical example to try and make it easier for you to see the way DVD's have gone and where blu-rays are going to be going.

You do realize that DVDs haven't actually gone anywhere don't you? Blu-Rays haven't managed to replace them as planned (yet).

i have a 1tb 2.5" usb drive that will comfortably fit in my pocket and runs off usb power that i could comfortably fit well over 100+ 1080p movie rips on, or 1300 DVD rips if i wanted to. i can take it anywhere i like and plug it into any computer or most modern tv's with a usb port and watch whatever i like wherever i like.

Good for you, most people don't have that. And when the disc is replaced by something else, there will still be too large a demand from people who cannot download to stop that other storage device being sold with the movie pre-installed.

how does that compare with you taking 150 blu-ray's or 1300 dvd's round to your mates house to watch? :roll eyes:

Seriously? I thought I was dealing with an adult, my mistake....:roll eyes:

also, for less than 50 quid, you can buy a 1080p media player (with remote) that is smaller than a pack of cards and will play back pretty much any file you throw at it, which is very handy for business trips or keeping the kids entertained on holiday.

And where do you get the data from to play it? Download? How do the vast majority of people with no/crappy internet connections deal with that?

you can buy 64gb sd cards and usb flash drives very cheaply now that will hold plenty of HD movies or almost 100 dvdrips, or even just half that on a 32gb miroSD card smaller than your little fingernail. how portable would you like?

And it still comes back to how do you fill it?

you seem to be mistaking a strong opinion for a strong argument., physical media is dying a death. it takes up too much room, it costs too much and it's far too inflexible to be practical in this day and age.

You seem to be confusing your fantasies with reality. Even on this board, that contains people much more knowledgeable than the average person when it comes to broadband etc, there is a large number of people who would not be able to download the way you think they can. When you extend that to the general population, it is a small minority who can do so. You being in that minority doesn't make any difference. The US will decide what succeeds, and their broadband for general consumption is every bit as bad as ours.

i can be watching a movie on my big screen tv and then pop it onto a microSD card an take it with me and watch it on the road on my phone if i really want to.

Good for you. The film studios don't care what you can do though, they care what most people can do. Most people watch movies on TVs.

does your phone have a dvd or blu-ray drive built in?

Why would I want to watch a movie on a 3.5" screen? It would look sh!t. I have a 55" full HD TV, and a 17" high res laptop (which is still too small to enjoy a movie). I'd rather not watch a film at all if it had to be on such a tiny screen. I think you'd find most people feel the same way, once the initial novelty of the first time is out of the way.

i don't even need to do that, i can access every piece of media i have from almost any device with an internet connection, be it either streaming to a computer on the other side of the world or even to my mobile phone on the road if the mood took me.

And in this fantasy world you're living in, with 100% broadband coverage, 100% reliability, how much do you pay for it? Not just at home, but as you travel to the other side of the world, and along the road. Does a single provider do all this?

how many of your blu-rays, dvd's or cd's can you get instant access to when you're not physically in your home?

Any of them that I wanted to bring with me, or any that I bought while away. Why?

also, re: backwards compatibility. digital media is always going to be compatible with current technology, there's no reason for it not to be. my PC will happily play any media file thrown at it, from blu-ray rips to ancient long dead video-cd rips, or even CD+G karaoke CD's and everything in between.

Really? Amazing. Who'd have thought all old video codecs are still supported by all new software packages, and that movie studios would never try to change that to force people to buy a new copy.

50 years from now your blu-rays will likely have degraded so much that they will be useless,

You don't know a lot about current disc technology, do you.... 50 Years from now there'll be something new to replace whatever replaced BDs, but it will still be a physical media because even then there will still be a large number of people who won't be able to download the files required over their internet connection.

whereas pretty much everything i currently have will still be out there in the cloud, multiple copies, stored online forever and taking up a tiny fraction of the (already insignificant) physical space it takes up now, my entire move and TV collection and more will probably fit on something the size of a microSD card.

i can guarantee to you right now (and i'll happily put money on it) that there will be no physical successor to blu-ray, it will be the last generation of physical media to exist for mainstream consumer society unless you want to count usb flash drives.

Possibly something along those lines will replace the disc as the physical media. Whatever form it takes, there will still be a physical media with movies pre-installed.

if you want a hint of what's to come, look at apple. the macbook air has no optical drive at all, the mac mini has just dropped the optical drive (and it's primary use is as a media player), the next generation of macbook pro won't have one either and if you want to buy a physical copy of OSX Lion instead of downloading it, it will come on a USB drive, there's no DVD option at all.

But it is still available on a physical media. The cloud, and downloading, is a long, long, long way from replacing physical media, especially for something as large as a movie file. By the time enough people have connections fast enough to download current 1080p movie files, most of the movies will have larger files for higher definition 3D versions.

partyatmygaff

Videos and Music aside... there's still years before digital downloading will replace game sales.

Look at the PSP GO. A digital download only console and it was a complete and utter failure. People still prefer physical > digital for some formats.

When it comes to music, some people even prefer Vinyl to any other format.

RobertFoster

partyatmygaff wrote: »

Look at the PSP GO. A digital download only console and it was a complete and utter failure. People still prefer physical > digital for some formats.

What about Steam? PC gamers seem to be more willing to ditch physical copies than console gamers. This might be because Steam was around earlier than PSN and XBLA, or it could be because the alternatives aren't as good.

It's easier to find a game on Steam (and other digital distribution services) than it is to find it at retail. The PSP GO was a failure because retailers tended to have the games cheaper (and sometimes sooner) than Sony had on the PSN. So, it's not necessarily consumers seeing physical > digital, but a series of factors, like Sony's unwillingness to price-match retail.

vibe666

Johnmb wrote: »

You do realize that....<SNIP>

taking this to PM, no point ruining a good thread continuing off topic to reply to all that.

TechnoKid

John has still failed to give proof .

Johnmb

TechnoKid wrote: »

John has still failed to give proof .

I gave proof in the PMs, both that DVDs were still outselling BDs, and were not in fact dead as Vibe ignorantly claimed (1), and that Vibes own example of Japan and South Korea as proof as to where broadband was going backed my belief up given that Japan is the largest market for BDs in the world, despite have some of the best/fastest/most reliable broadband systems around, going totally against Vibes claims as to what happens when everyone has good broadband (2). He hasn't responded. He also never provided any proof to support his own claims, he just told me I had very little knowledge, while going on about the world of knowledge out there, while at the same time displaying his own lack of knowledge of the subject, and even a lack of ability to use a simple search engine before making claims.
(1)
http://www.deadline.com/2011/06/report-blu-ray-sales-falling-short-of-expectations-even-as-prices-decline/
http://forum.digital-digest.com/f145/nielsen-videoscan-home-media-magazine-blu-ray-dvd-hd-dvd-stats-updated-weekly-86912-23.html
(2)
http://www.variety.com/article/VR1118030625?refCatId=1009
http://blog.cdrom2go.com/2011/05/blu-ray-sales-to-top-400-million-discs-by-2013/

Edit:
Got a response just after posting. Got bored reading. From what I could see, same old sh!t, and no evidence to back it up.

vibe666

yes, he totally proved he was right by linking to stories showing dvd sales dropping drastically and blu-ray sales failing to make any significant dent in the shortfall.

well played. :rolleyes:

Johnmb

vibe666 wrote: »

yes, he totally proved he was right by linking to stories showing dvd sales dropping drastically and blu-ray sales failing to make any significant dent in the shortfall.

well played. :rolleyes:

You should try reading the articles in full, then have someone explain them to you. DVD sales are gradually reducing as BD sales take over, but still make up a huge amount of sales, much larger than BD. Hardly in keeping with your claim "they are deader than fried chicken, even if *some* people don't seem to have realised it yet." They still have some life in them yet. And as for your claims that having great broadband will eliminate physical media, Japan (a country you mentioned as your shining example) currently disproves that. And if you replace Japan with your other shining example, South Korea, you get a similar picture, with reports like this one describing Blu Ray as a "growth area". Hardly dying out due to their great broadband if it's a growth area.
http://pdf.marketpublishers.com/900/south_korea_consumer_electronics_report_q2_2011.pdf

TechnoKid

Is it more or are you two "debating" something different now?

Johnmb

TechnoKid wrote: »

Is it more or are you two "debating" something different now?

I was debating a comment made by you earlier about Blu Ray, and how it will be around for more than a few years and when it is replaced, it will be replaced by some other form of physical media, not just streaming. Vibe seems to live in a fantasy world where physical media doesn't exist, and expects everyone else to follow suit. He seemed to want to make it a personal thing, and got quite offensive, which I presume is why he switched to PM. The DVD thing is specific to claims he made.

As for your comment, I'd simply refer to the Japan example. Even though they have the ability to stream/download everything they could want, and have had that ability for quite a number of years, there is still more than enough demand to keep physical media alive. Blu Ray will last until it can no longer store the amount of data the studios want on it. Given the spare capacity, that is probably a decade away at least. I do think Blu Ray will be the last disc version of physical media, but there will continue to be physical media of some sort into the future, alongside the streaming/downloading sites that broadband will make available to more people.