Major changes to welfare and training ahead...

Lux23

All this talk of an overhaul of the social welfare system is fair enough, we really need to make changes. But its not going to make a jot of difference in the jobs market, nobody seems to be pointing out that a few years ago we had full employment and now its at nearly 15%? This suggests that for the most part people want to work, there is just feck all work there.

squod

Country needs jobs not a fuhken speech. Maybe if he took down some of the barriers to employment, high rents, rates and red tape we might achieve something.

What's absolutely sure is that we shouldn't have spent hundreds of billions bailing the likes of Anglo out. That little quear decided to blow our future on some dodgy deal. I think it's him who needs a pay-cut and some training.

mackg

phasers wrote: »

Is that a joke? How could I afford to go abroad?

I have friends who went to the UK looking for work. Looked for work through agencies and went over for interviews on ryanair flights, worked out for them, just throwing it out there no need to jump down my throat.

amacca

sunflower27 wrote: »

I wasn't suggesting anyone take out a mortgage? what? I was saying to those people that had a mortgage and lost their job and can't make their payments it is a case of losing their homes. All well and good if you can rent it out and it will cover it, but if you can't well, it isn't a great place to be.

And I was not suggesting that you suggested anyone should go out right now and take out a mortgage


why do you keep misinterpreting what I post?

see below

Quote:
Originally Posted by amacca
I think you have the wrong idea about what social welfare is for

(hint: its supposed to be a subsistence payment......not really for paying a mortgage with)

sunflower27 wrote: »

Well, without a home address can people actually avail of welfare?

I would have presumed paying accommodation is a fairly significant thing for most people.

your reply above would seem to suggest that the only way people can have a home address is by taking out a mortgage and buying themselves a home address (at least that is what it seemed to suggest to me)

I was merely pointing out that you can rent accommodation and still get social welfare........you were never forced into taking out that mortgage so to speak...it was at the end of the day your decision.

if the worst comes to the worst and you cant pay the mortgage you will still be able to rent a place to live wont you? and thus you will still be able to claim social welfare?

Jesus Wept

Divide and conquer.

The dole makes up 20% of the welfare bill afaics.
Yet it makes up 99% of the chatter.

Almost the same amount is spent on illness/disability payments which seems surprisingly high.

Figures obtained by the Sunday Independent on social welfare spending during 2010 reveal the astonishing scale of Ireland's expenditure on State benefits.

The figures contained in the Department of Social Protection's Statistical Information on Social Welfare Services 2010 document show that, in spite of an ongoing series of bitterly contested cutbacks, social welfare payments continue to be one of the few growth industries.

The document, which is currently being read with great interest by the troika -- European Commission, European Central Bank and International Monetary Fund -- reveals that the overall social welfare budget of €20.8bn (representing an increase of 1.5 per cent from 2009) now constitutes 33.4 per cent of all current government expenditure.

Such is the plethora of the more than 80 schemes which now come under the social welfare brief, actual dole payments to the unemployed, is just under 25 per cent of the total budget.

A further 22.1 per cent is spent on pensions, with the balance being taken up by an astonishing variety of payments from free travel to farm-assist payments.

The size and reach of the department means that simply administering the social welfare budget cost over €575m last year.

In spite of the apparent scale of the cost of administration, this was less than three per cent of the department's total budget.

Other major items of expenditure include single parent payments of €1.1bn -- whilst in spite of a swingeing series of cutbacks, 591,432 families and 1,124,0003 children receive just over €2.2bn in child benefit.

The figures for the department show the first indications of a country that is rapidly greying.

In 2001 the number of citizens in receipt of a pension from the State stood at 276,065. But by last year this had increased to 393,825.

The report also unveils an extraordinary increase over the last decade, particularly during the free-spending Cowen era, in the amount of people who are receiving social welfare payments and the cost of this to the Exchequer.

In 2001, 903,375 citizens received some form of social welfare and there were 1,460,574 beneficiaries of the social welfare system.

However, by last year this had escalated to 1,430,833 recipients and 2,179,428 beneficiaries.

During that same period of time, the social welfare budget increased from €7.842bn (or 6.7 per cent of GDP) in 2001 to €20.848bn which represents 13.5 per cent of GDP.

The overall breakdown of the social welfare expenditure is detailed below.

The percentage figures cited represent either increases and decreases on the 2009 figures.

Total budget: €20.848bn (approximately).

Older people -- €4,614,970,000 (+1 per cent); widows, widowers, one parent families -- €2,570,345,000 (-1.4 per cent); child benefit -- €2,650,751,000 (-7.9 per cent).

Illness and disability-- €3,469,550,000 (-1 per cent); employment supports -- €597,095,000 (+31.4 per cent); job-seekers supports -- €4,094,732,000 (Dole) (+9.5 per cent).

Supplementary welfare allowances -- €950,919,000 (-1.9 per cent); miscellaneous payments -- €1,324,101,000 (+8.4 per cent); administration -- €575,567,000 (-2.9 per cent).

A more detailed breakdown of the budget reveals an exponential growth in the amount of activities the Department of Social Protection now funds.

These include: deserted wives benefit -- €93,388,000; deserted wives allowance -- €5,020,000; one parent family payment -- €1,110,350,000; family income supplement -- €186,001,000.

Invalidity pension -- €640,007,000; illness benefit -- €942,386,000; farm assist -- €110,931,000; supplementary welfare -- €950,919,000.

Carers' allowance -- €501,822,000; carers benefit -- €26,305,000; respite care -- €128,114,000; household benefits and free travel -- €670,766,000.

The State also paid out €516,861,000 in rent supplements and a further €65,654 in mortgage interest payments to the unemployed.

Commenting on the publication of the report, however, the Minister for Social Protection Joan Burton said "supports administered by my department provide for the complex and multi-faceted needs of people at every stage of life''.

She added that these supports affirmed "the Government's commitment to the welfare of all those in need of support''.

- JOHN DRENNAN

http://www.independent.ie/opinion/columnists/john-drennan/john-drennan-a-third-of-governments-expenditure-now-goes-on-social-welfare-2829940.html

generalmental

amacca wrote: »

if the worst comes to the worst and you cant pay the mortgage you will still be able to rent a place to live wont you? and thus you will still be able to claim social welfare?

But realistically who wants to do that. Majority of people who are on Unemployment Assistance would rather have a job a purpose, not just to scrounge off the welfare.

I want to make it clear not having a pop at you just stating an opinion

Lord TSC

wild_cat wrote: »

Have you been applying for jobs that are not in your field of study. Like retail, low level admin etc?

Seanbeag1 wrote: »

Just out of curiosity, have you applied for any other jobs outside of teaching?

I know I'm going to lose support with this post. I know I'm setting myself up for an attack here. But hey, screw it. Here goes.

I've applied for a few positions outside the teaching sector, for positions I think my qualifications would be handy. I've also been checking the job sites and the papers when I can to see if I can find a position which is "befitting", so to speak, my qualifications. Hell, I'd even be up for ones which I'd be slightly overqualified for. I'm finding the problem with those though are they don't want you unless you have experience. So you get stuck in this cycle where you can't get a job without experience and you can't get experience without a job.

But no. I've not applied for retail jobs. I'm presuming you mean stacking shelves or so forth. This is the part I'm going to get attacked for. People are going to say its elitist and that I feel a sense of entitlement and to an extent, thats true. But I see my friends who dropped out of college and uni after year one, and people who never even bothered working hard, and they are the people in stacking shelves and doing those jobs. With no offence intended but knowing the responses coming for this, I did not work my ass off for five years, sacrifice my social life and opt to be broke for years to end up doing the same job my unqualified friends do. I worked my ass off, got my qualifications and sacrificed so I would NOT have to be stuck in those dead end jobs. I did not spend those five years working my fingers to the bone in the education system to come out and go into jobs that my friends who couldn't be assed to do the same could get.

So yeah, there's a big target for people. Feel free to rip into that.

dvpower wrote: »

But you're not a fully qualified English teacher; you're just fully qualified to become an English teacher in a market where there are very few openings for English teachers.

I don't understand where you're coming from tbh. I am a fully qualified English teacher. I'm not fully employed, but I am fully qualified. I have the certs and results to prove it, and as of five minutes ago, I have a letter from the teaching council telling me I can now pay my €90 annual fee to remain fully qualified and enabled to teach, should a job come along. I have all the training and qualifications to teach English. I just don't have the job.

dvpower wrote: »

You have a number of choices.

You could go on the dole and wait 'till the market improves - this is a non runner; there is a requirement that you be actively seeking work (and not just in your own narrow specialism).
You could look for a job in an other line of business. We do have an unemployment crisis, but I'd expect that a person with your qualifications should be able to find some work. If you can't find any work after a reasonable search, then wouldn't temporary emigration be the best solution all 'round?

See, I get where you're coming from. That post suggests that termporary emigration should be a last resort if I've searched and am desperate. And there's an arguement for that. My problem is two-fold...

1. I don't believe the majority of emigration occuring at the moment is "temporary". I think a lot of people are going to get the hell out of Ireland with a lot of negative feelings and will come back only for visits. They will establish lives outside of the country and never come back. The worst part of that is the government is pumping thousands upon thousands into people and then telling them to leave, wasting their investments.

2. It should be an absolutly last resort, but the truth is, it's not. For many people, it's the first and "easy" option. I know a lot of people who didn't even bother looking for jobs. They just left as soon as they could. That's a horrible aspect of our culture to be honest, and it frustrates me how readily accepted emigration is nowadays. At least it used to be mourned and resented. Now though, it's activly encouraged (as seen in this thread).

Again i say, I HATE the pro-emigration aspect of the Irish culture which is developing. I've got my friends and family here. I've got my life here. And I've no intentions of being forced out of my home.

You know what really gets me though? Why are the likes of me being targeted? Someone who has done everything right in terms of working hard and trying to achieve something? Meanwhile, I look in council estates and rough areas where people are making lifestyle choices to get pregnant asap in their young teens, grab a council house and live off benefits for the rest of their lives. Why is it that I am getting punished and hounded out of my country for reasons beyond my control, while people who actually make it their lives to abuse the system are left untouched? I know of one guy who I went to school with who dropped out at 16, had five kids by 20 and he has his own house, an amazing car and constantly is wearing brand new Nike clothes, all paid for by state benefits. But here I am, having worked hard to do things "right", and I'm being told to **** off out of the country or starve without any state support.

Yeah, there's that elitism again, I know....

Lux23

I applied for loads of retail positions last year and I didn't get one call back, why would they want someone who hasn't worked in a shop since they were 17 anyway. I reckon you would be wasting time applying for menial jobs and sure pretty soon alot of them will be work for your welfare positions anyway.

sunflower27

amacca wrote: »

And I was not suggesting that you suggested anyone should take out a mortgage


why do you keep misinterpreting what I post?

see below

Quote:
Originally Posted by amacca
I think you have the wrong idea about what social welfare is for

(hint: its supposed to be a subsistence payment......not really for paying a mortgage with)





your reply above would seem to suggest that the only way people can have a home address is by taking out a mortgage and buying themselves a home address (at least that is what it seemed to suggest to me)

I was merely pointing out that you can rent accommodation and still get social welfare........you were never forced into taking out that mortgage so to speak...it was at the end of the day your decision.

if the worst comes to the worst and you cant pay the mortgage you will still be able to rent a place to live wont you? and thus you will still be able to claim social welfare?

I know you don't need a mortgage to receive benefits. Why would rental assistance exist if you had to have a mortgage? That goews without saying

I am late-30s and made the decision to buy a home because I got my place at a knock-down price and my job was secure. it is not something I ran into blindly. Turns out the secure job was obviously not secure.

Yes, I can rent out my place (if I can get a tenant) but the rent would be approximately 400e less than what the mortgage calls for. I cannot make that up. The place will be sold at a big loss. That is my point. I obviously know you can get rental assistance through renting and claim SW so need need to quote and repeat the point.

suicide_circus

Teamshadowclan wrote: »

You seem to be under the illusion that there's loads of good jobs out there for 24 year olds and that the only reason someone doesn't have one is laziness (or that's how your post is coming accross). It's damn well not. I've been sending my CV out to every school I can and have still only worked two days in the last year. I'd love to have a full time job, and I'd love to be able to take myself off the dole

There are however some crap jobs going. I work horrible shifts at a boring menial job. I am young, educated and bright but this is the best I can get. No one owes you a good job in youre field of study, no one owes you diddley squat. Get real, get youre shoulder to the wheel with the rest of us drones.

amacca

generalmental wrote: »

But realistically who wants to do that. Majority of people who are on Unemployment Assistance would rather have a job a purpose, not just to scrounge off the welfare.

its not a case of what you want to do with this...if you cant afford your mortgage it may eventually get to the point where you wont get to keep the property

the post seemed to insinuate that without a mortgage you couldnt have a home address and thus couldnt get social welfare..thus social welfare should in some way help to pay the mortgage ...I was just stating that this is not or should not be true

agreed that the majority of people on unemployment should want to get a job

however those that dont (for no good reason) should be weeded out

Logical Fallacy

Whats the point in making sure people are better off in work than on Welfare?

It's a reasonably limited group of people who actually benefit from Welfare to the point that tabloids love...most other people are ****ed.

If they want to do something truly helpful...invest in jobs.

DoesNotCompute

phasers wrote: »

Is that a joke? How could I afford to go abroad?

Ryanair to London (Gatwick) is £20 anyday of the week.

Sail and Rail from Dublin to London is £30 all in.

drunkmonkey

phasers wrote: »

Is that a joke? How could I afford to go abroad?

Phasers we can't afford to keep you here, that's what this thread is about, savage cuts to social welfare will be coming down the line. If you've only little money head for the UK but you probably don't need to.
Get off the internet for a week, put the head down and find some work even if it's only part time. Bang on doors, go to agencies, drop into shops with your cv. There is work out there but it won't just pop up in your email some day you need to go get it, contact all your friends, see do they know of anything going on. Take anything your offered just to get your started.

amacca

sunflower27 wrote: »

Yes, I can rent out my place (if I can get a tenant) but the rent would be approximately 400e less than what the mortgage calls for. I cannot make that up.

sigh......I never once mentioned or suggested you should rent out your place you have an existing mortgage on.........

go on check back over my posts..try find where I suggested that

there is a need to re quote when you repeatedly and wilfully misinterpret what someone posts ...and reposts etc

snubbleste

drunkmonkey wrote: »

Phasers we can't afford to keep you here, that's what this thread is about, savage cuts to social welfare will be coming down the line. If you've only little money head for the UK but you probably don't need to.
Get off the internet for a week, put the head down and find some work even if it's only part time.....

:eek:

dsmythy

Teamshadowclan wrote: »

But no. I've not applied for retail jobs. I'm presuming you mean stacking shelves or so forth. This is the part I'm going to get attacked for. People are going to say its elitist and that I feel a sense of entitlement and to an extent, thats true. But I see my friends who dropped out of college and uni after year one, and people who never even bothered working hard, and they are the people in stacking shelves and doing those jobs. With no offence intended but knowing the responses coming for this, I did not work my ass off for five years, sacrifice my social life and opt to be broke for years to end up doing the same job my unqualified friends do. I worked my ass off, got my qualifications and sacrificed so I would NOT have to be stuck in those dead end jobs. I did not spend those five years working my fingers to the bone in the education system to come out and go into jobs that my friends who couldn't be assed to do the same could get.

So yeah, there's a big target for people. Feel free to rip into that.

Not going to rip, but all sympathy has just drained out of most people for you. You can get a crappy job and still apply for the ones you really want, just saying.

sunflower27

amacca wrote: »

its not a case of what you want to do with this...if you cant afford your mortgage it may eventually get to the point where you wont get to keep the property

the post seemed to insinuate that without a mortgage you couldnt have a home address and thus couldnt get social welfare..thus social welfare should in some way help to pay the mortgage ...I was just stating that this is not or should not be true

agreed that the majority of people on unemployment should want to get a job

however those that dont (for no good reason) should be weeded out

If I was to move out and get rental assistance then that is what welfare money would go on - accommodation. There are plenty of people living in homes they bought and using the SW to keep their heads above water with their homes. And why shouldn't they? Others are happy to piss it up the wall with drink and drugs, buy designer clothes or whatever...

How people spend their welfare is their business and I would say trying to keep the banks at bay whilst in a difficult period is a far better way of spending the money than drinking it or going on trips away?

In fact, I think those with the sense to keep up their motgage payments to the best of their ability are the smart ones

wild_cat

Teamshadowclan wrote: »

I know I'm going to lose support with this post. I know I'm setting myself up for an attack here. But hey, screw it. Here goes.

I've applied for a few positions outside the teaching sector, for positions I think my qualifications would be handy. I've also been checking the job sites and the papers when I can to see if I can find a position which is "befitting", so to speak, my qualifications. Hell, I'd even be up for ones which I'd be slightly overqualified for. I'm finding the problem with those though are they don't want you unless you have experience. So you get stuck in this cycle where you can't get a job without experience and you can't get experience without a job.

But no. I've not applied for retail jobs. I'm presuming you mean stacking shelves or so forth. This is the part I'm going to get attacked for. People are going to say its elitist and that I feel a sense of entitlement and to an extent, thats true. But I see my friends who dropped out of college and uni after year one, and people who never even bothered working hard, and they are the people in stacking shelves and doing those jobs. With no offence intended but knowing the responses coming for this, I did not work my ass off for five years, sacrifice my social life and opt to be broke for years to end up doing the same job my unqualified friends do. I worked my ass off, got my qualifications and sacrificed so I would NOT have to be stuck in those dead end jobs. I did not spend those five years working my fingers to the bone in the education system to come out and go into jobs that my friends who couldn't be assed to do the same could get.

So yeah, there's a big target for people. Feel free to rip into that.

.

I'm not going to rip you a part. But everyone else I know that is in the same boat as yourself is either applying for or working in a job they are way over qualified for.

and tbh I'm sick of people complaining that they can't get a job when all that is wrong is they can't get their dream job etc.

I'm over qualified for what I do. As is my boyfriend (unbelievable over qualified for what he does but this sense of entitlement some people have drives him nuts - also has a few things in the pipeline other than the menial job). I only work a few days a week and am trying to generate my own income at the moment from a few things I have in the pipeline.

amacca

dsmythy wrote: »

Not going to rip, but all sympathy has just drained out of most people for you. You can get a crappy job and still apply for the ones you really want, just saying.

I understand his point though

its a kick in the balls to sacrifice and work hard to end up in the same place as those that did not (if thats truly the case)

nevertheless, you're right...take whatever job you can get and use it as a stepping stone to something else

if he continues to work hard etc he will succeed

My name is URL

I think cutting the dole is fair enough.. it makes sense right now. But the amount of spiel coming from the government atm about the whole issue of welfare and the subsequent rabble amongst the masses is asinine. Overhauling the welfare system isn't going to get people back to work, and providing the likes of the internship and training schemes isn't going to mean that more jobs are available.

Also, for how long is Kenny's speech about Cloyne going to be mentioned? Ah sure he's a great man damning those pesky Vatican officials isn't he.. who cares that he's effectively planning on pushing thousands of people below the poverty line?

generalmental

You had my vote up until this

Teamshadowclan wrote: »

You know what really gets me though? Why are the likes of me being targeted? Someone who has done everything right in terms of working hard and trying to achieve something? Meanwhile, I look in council estates and rough areas where people are making lifestyle choices to get pregnant asap in their young teens, grab a council house and live off benefits for the rest of their lives. Why is it that I am getting punished and hounded out of my country for reasons beyond my control, while people who actually make it their lives to abuse the system are left untouched? I know of one guy who I went to school with who dropped out at 16, had five kids by 20 and he has his own house, an amazing car and constantly is wearing brand new Nike clothes, all paid for by state benefits. But here I am, having worked hard to do things "right", and I'm being told to **** off out of the country or starve without any state support.

Yeah, there's that elitism again, I know....

You see that person who has all the new Nike and the spanky car all he is doing is playing the system and bringing up the fact that he/she lives in a council estate is plain wrong... You see my point is not one of the b/**** grew up in a council estate but yet they played the system but when they played they also played with so many people`s lives and really fooked up.

Corruption is corruption, it does not matter what side of the water you come from

Lux23

DoesNotCompute wrote: »

Ryanair to London (Gatwick) is £20 anyday of the week.

Sail and Rail from Dublin to London is £30 all in.

So where would we sleep, eat while we are there looking for a job?

syklops

mathie wrote: »

Dole threads on AH are like buses.... large rectangular shaped vehicles that transport passengers.

And you dont see any for a while and then 3 come along at the same time.

drunkmonkey

Teamshadowclan wrote: »

But no. I've not applied for retail jobs. I'm presuming you mean stacking shelves or so forth. This is the part I'm going to get attacked for. People are going to say its elitist and that I feel a sense of entitlement and to an extent, thats true. But I see my friends who dropped out of college and uni after year one, and people who never even bothered working hard, and they are the people in stacking shelves and doing those jobs. With no offence intended but knowing the responses coming for this, I did not work my ass off for five years, sacrifice my social life and opt to be broke for years to end up doing the same job my unqualified friends do.

You should be given no dole, nothings, nada, If your not prepared to take any Job or even look for jobs outside your qualifications.
Who cares what your qualified at that means very little as you'll discover the older you get, you've failed to get work and your sitting on a high horse looking down at people with jobs. Get out off your ass and get a job, any job no more bull crap excuses.

sunflower27

Lux23 wrote: »

So where would we sleep, eat while we are there looking for a job?

I think the point was to apply for jobs, get the interview, be there and back in a day.

I know a few people that applied for jobs in London and went for interviews, got them and are happily settled. I know it isn't for everyone though but I'd do it if I could

amacca

sunflower27 wrote: »

If I was to move out and get rental assistance then that is what welfare money would go on - accommodation. There are plenty of people living in homes they bought and using the SW to keep their heads above water with their homes. And why shouldn't they? Others are happy to piss it up the wall with drink and drugs, buy designer clothes or whatever...

How people spend their welfare is their business and I would say trying to keep the banks at bay whilst in a difficult period is a far better way of spending the money than drinking it or going on trips away?

In fact, I think those with the sense to keep up their motgage payments to the best of their ability are the smart ones

no argument there....you've got to do whats best for you

and holding on to the house/apartment may well be the best decision


I'm not arguing against that I hope you realize



just posts insinuating that somehow the purpose of social welfare is to support people with their mortgage repayments.....its not, or at least it shouldn't be...if people can do this though why shouldn't they...the system is obviously at fault though if this is the case (went wrong a long time ago)

generalmental

drunkmonkey wrote: »

Phasers we can't afford to keep you here, that's what this thread is about, savage cuts to social welfare will be coming down the line. If you've only little money head for the UK but you probably don't need to.
Get off the internet for a week, put the head down and find some work even if it's only part time. Bang on doors, go to agencies, drop into shops with your cv. There is work out there but it won't just pop up in your email some day you need to go get it, contact all your friends, see do they know of anything going on. Take anything your offered just to get your started.

Bill Cullen is that you

Lord TSC

generalmental wrote: »

You had my vote up until this

You see that person who has all the new Nike and the spanky car all he is doing is playing the system and bringing up the fact that he/she lives in a council estate is plain wrong... You see my point is not one of the b/**** grew up in a council estate but yet they played the system but when they played they also played with so many people`s lives and really fooked up.

Corruption is corruption, it does not matter what side of the water you come from

Oh hey, don't get me wrong. Anyone who plays the system should be delt with, bankers and chavs alike. Anyone who abuses the system, and thus hurts people who don't and are unemployed for legit reasons and want to work, should be tackled as well. Don't get me started on those bankers.

My point is (and I'm actually appreciating the muted response in terms of personal attacks; genernally on the 'net, a post like my last one would get me torn apart :P) I worked my way through Uni and sacrificed to avoid the ****ty jobs. I've no intentions of taking a job that any person without even their LCs need. I did what I did specifically so I never would have to do that.

You can get a crappy job and still apply for the ones you really want, just saying.

Again, I get your point. But is doing that crappy job going to make it easier to get a better one? Is the situation going to improve in a manner that while doing that job, a good one will arise? I don't think so. Rather, I'd be stuck in a crappy job with no chance of escape, working my way even deeper into a sense of depression and hopelessness.



Now, I'll add something to all this. If the dole does get cut, I'll be annoyed but I won't be out protesting. I won't be kicking up a major fuss about it all, cause I'll understand it kind of needs to be done. More, my annoyance is really one thats been building up, caused by the attitudes towards emigration, the whole slavebridge scheme and a general sense that the people being targeted by the cuts and the "Forced to train" schemes are not nessecarily the ones who should be targeted and punished but are targetted cause they are an "easy" target...

Lux23

sunflower27 wrote: »

I think the point was to apply for jobs, get the interview, be there and back in a day.

I know a few people that applied for jobs in London and went for interviews, got them and are happily settled. I know it isn't for everyone though but I'd do it if I could

But how do you pay rent while waiting to get paid?

sunflower27

amacca wrote: »

no argument there....you've got to do whats best for you

and holding on to the house/apartment may well be the best decision


I'm not arguing against that I hope you realize



just posts insinuating that somehow the purpose of social welfare is to support people with their mortgage repayments.....its not, or at least it shouldn't be...if people can do this though why shouldn't they...the system is obviously at fault though if this is the case (went wrong a long time ago)

Where did I say the purpose of social welfare was to pay mortgages? I said that in my situation, that is where most of it will go. I live on very little now (not that I mind so much, food is cheap enough) so any SW money I have left is saved so I can hold on to my home down the line.

I am not planning on doing this forever, I'm bored and miss being able to travel and treat myself to nice things, but that's the way things are presently. I don't understand why anyone would not want to have a comfortable life and be fulfilled with doing a decent day's work. Obviously, there are those that are OK with that, but anyone that I personally know on SW (including myself) hate it. Grateful, of course, but I'm not happy to accept it as my new lifestyle. :pac:

mackg

Lux23 wrote: »

So where would we sleep, eat while we are there looking for a job?

Sleep: come back the same day.

Eat: bring some sandwiches with you.

This is genuine advice that has worked for people we know, it's not an insult. If it's not for you cool I don't know every detail of your circumstances but someone reading the thread might give it a whirl and get something out of it so surely it was worth posting.

sunflower27

Lux23 wrote: »

But how do you pay rent while waiting to get paid?

When I first moved to Ireland and got a job I was struggling and got an advance on my pay for a month to tie me over. If a company wants you, they are going to understand your predicament.

London rent can be expensive in some areas (I lived there for a few years many years ago) but it is so big that you can live in areas where rent is reasonable.

monkeypants

Teamshadowclan wrote: »

But no. I've not applied for retail jobs. I'm presuming you mean stacking shelves or so forth. This is the part I'm going to get attacked for. People are going to say its elitist and that I feel a sense of entitlement and to an extent, thats true. But I see my friends who dropped out of college and uni after year one, and people who never even bothered working hard, and they are the people in stacking shelves and doing those jobs. With no offence intended but knowing the responses coming for this, I did not work my ass off for five years, sacrifice my social life and opt to be broke for years to end up doing the same job my unqualified friends do. I worked my ass off, got my qualifications and sacrificed so I would NOT have to be stuck in those dead end jobs. I did not spend those five years working my fingers to the bone in the education system to come out and go into jobs that my friends who couldn't be assed to do the same could get.

I understand your point, but you're just going to have to do something. I was unemployed for 14 months, until October 2010 and I went round my local area, knocking doors and offering to do odd jobs around the house and garden, painting and walking dogs. I was applying for jobs that suited my qualifications and 13 years of industry experience (IT), but I also had to keep busy and contribute.

Now you might find that you won't be able to get these menial jobs because you're seen as being overqualified. But you've got to do something. When you do walk into an interview, you'll be asked about what you've been doing recently. I was unemployed for 14 months, yet I was able to point towards some OU education, the stuff that I described above, job hunting and charity work. How are you going to answer that question?

I've interviewed hundreds of people over the years in a couple of different countries and it's a question that gets asked if there's a gap in a CV or it's brand new. If I didn't receive a satisfactory answer, then there'd be no chance of getting the role. I don't know how teaching works, probably interview committees, but I suspect that sitting around waiting wouldn't be considered satisfactory for them either.

woody1

there seems to be a bit of a myth developing that there is work out there..
im not claiming any welfare payments of any kind..but i am in a 3 day week job making less than the dole would pay me..given that if i was on the dole i could mind my kids and not have to pay for childcare,..anyway getting back to the point, im in a menial job that i got thru knowing a man that knows a man..after my previous job in architecture went, im college educated up to degree level.. im not elitist .. il clean toilets if it pays more than where i am now.. i have been looking regularly on the internet, in the local papers and around my hometown for the past year at least.. yes there are a few jobs advertised.. bar work, retail,hotel stuff,bookies are always advertising for part time work..ive applied for everything...BUT..i and a lot of other people have no experience in any of these fields..and youd say its menial work what experience do you need..probably very little but the employer is always going to take the guy with experience over the guy with none... and obviously all these jobs are getting buckets of applications, my younger brother worked as a barman from secondary school thru college and for a while after.. he has 6 or 7 years experience and was a fairly good barman.. hes applied for any bar job that comes up and has had no luck, he was told one hotel bar man job that came up got over a hundred applications...
im based in ballina in mayo..and there are supposedly jobs coming in hollister ( medical device manufacturing )..but these are specialist jobs and hollister will be looking for particular qualifications / experience , as usual i will apply anyway but i dont hold out hope.. so yes there are jobs advertised but its not as easy as just applying to get them... and the attitude that people are just sitting on their arses taking the dole money and are just not willing to work does my head in...( admittedly there are a minority doing this..but i do believe its a minority )

amacca

Teamshadowclan wrote: »

Again, I get your point. But is doing that crappy job going to make it easier to get a better one? Is the situation going to improve in a manner that while doing that job, a good one will arise? I don't think so. Rather, I'd be stuck in a crappy job with no chance of escape, working my way even deeper into a sense of depression and hopelessness..

I'm with you in a lot of what you say but I think (just a personal opinion) you are making a big mistake with the above.

eg: what would be more impressive to a potential employer

1) very well qualified but has been unemployed since they got the qualification

2) well qualified but took the best job they could get in the middle of a recession

to me 2) would be hired everytime (to the type of job you are looking for) shows get up and go, a willingness to roll up your sleeves etc, shows a will to succeed and endure something to get greater reward etc

the best way to get a job is to have one already....nearly no matter what your current job is

you just dont get to wait for ideal jobs/situations to roll along in this life

+ I think you will end up more depressed not working and that will end up being a spiral you wont get out of

drunkmonkey

Teamshadowclan wrote: »

Oh hey, don't get me wrong. Anyone who plays the system should be delt with, .

But your playing the system, your being a work snob, looking down on other people with jobs the cheek of you. What do you do today to make yourself feel proud?
Your currently a drain on society those people stacking the shelves in your local supermarket are not. Get off your high horse and start making some kind of effort and if your not prepared to do that go to Korea.

dsmythy

Teamshadowclan wrote: »

Again, I get your point. But is doing that crappy job going to make it easier to get a better one? Is the situation going to improve in a manner that while doing that job, a good one will arise? I don't think so. Rather, I'd be stuck in a crappy job with no chance of escape, working my way even deeper into a sense of depression and hopelessness.

Now, I'll add something to all this. If the dole does get cut, I'll be annoyed but I won't be out protesting. I won't be kicking up a major fuss about it all, cause I'll understand it kind of needs to be done. More, my annoyance is really one thats been building up, caused by the attitudes towards emigration, the whole slavebridge scheme and a general sense that the people being targeted by the cuts and the "Forced to train" schemes are not nessecarily the ones who should be targeted and punished but are targetted cause they are an "easy" target...

Technically you're breaking the rules with regards the dole as presumably if you were offered a job you didn't like you would reject it. Your chances of getting the job you want would be the same if you are working or not beforehand. In the meantime you'll have more money in your wallet to spend and the government is handing out less. Some interviewers might be more impressed at your willingness to 'drop down' to other jobs.

amacca

sunflower27 wrote: »

Where did I say the purpose of social welfare was to pay mortgages? I said that in my situation, that is where most of it will go.

see below

sunflower27 wrote: »

70e a week or 280e per month. How is someone that finds themselves out of work through no fault of their own meant to house, feed and clothe themselves on that?? Most people would pay more that 280e/month in rent in a shared house. Not to mention those that had mortgages to pay and are now in a position of losing their homes.

call me crazy but your post above would suggest to me that you think the dole should not be lowered as it would not cover mortgage repayments (among other things) for people

you know people other than yourself...not just your situation

mikom

mackg wrote: »

TAOISEACH ENDA KENNY has announced a huge shake-up of Ireland’s welfare and training systems over the coming months.

He said the government is set to unveil details of what he called “the most radical shake-up in our welfare, employment and training systems and services in a generation”. The measures aim to “focus our limited resources on those with genuine need” and “make sure people are better off in work than on welfare,” he added.

Kenny is a great man for the ould pre-prepared speeches, but doorstep him and he splutters more than a 20 diesel running on fumes.
Spoof.
I note that the "Job-bridge" internship scam his group introduced is doing well............

JobBridge!!!!There is no point avoiding us,we'll be reporting all employers false declarations to relevant media.Why is Topaz still advertising btw.?Get your act together because if you can't do the job properly,there will be plenty of people willing to replace you

HR Officer - Dublin South Ref. INTE-616617
Experience Required:
Some Experience Required
Minimum Experience: 1 Year

Against the rules but you already knew that because WE TOLD YOU ON THE 14TH OF JULY.

You still didn't answer the question:
So if a host organisation failed to declare that they don't have vacancies in
the area of activity,would they be liable to pay a fine for false daclaration?

I just had a quick look at so called Internships
Fish filleter,florist,warehouse operator,kitchen assistant. those are full time jobs !! who is monitoring those Internships?

Almost a hundred internships went up today and having looked at them I haven't the energy nor the will to point out how many are breaking the 'rules' of your so called scheme. Its obvious that there is no filtering of adverts or else how would they end up there?

By no stretch of the imagination could this be described a an intern-ship. This is outrageous that this site is still posting these jobs even after last weeks ''statement''.

This is no more than a tool to massage the unemployment figures and provide slaves for Business -The Country needs real job creation not gimmicks

This is state sponsored exploitation. Some of the 'internships' offered include kitchen porters & TV producers (experience necessary!). Topaz - which makes major profits and should not be permitted to benefit from free manual labour - advertised paid cashier jobs and then switched them to unpaid "trainee managers". It's equally as rep...rehensible that JobBridge "do not stand over any abuse of this scheme or the presentation of misleading information and will either prevent the uploading of such advertisements to the website or withdraw them if necessary." Not really how Facebook works- if we "like" your page so it features in our news feed we're also entitled to respectfully provide our opinion.

How can the jobs advertised on JobBridge from the Dept of Justice for Citizenship Processing Clerks be considered internships? They are clerical officer jobs. Absolutely disgraceful that the government can pass these off as anything other than that. Definately a race to the bottom.

This is a bad omen.

From here..... http://www.facebook.com/home.php?sk=group_109266375807916&ap=1#!/pages/JobBridge/224594244220529

Lord TSC

drunkmonkey wrote: »

You should be given no dole, nothings, nada, If your not prepared to take any Job or even look for jobs outside your qualifications.
.

Tell you what. I actually agree to an extent. But I'd add if you're going to argue that I should be given no dole, then you've got to bring in rules that says everyone who is not looking for a job should be given nothing. Doesn't matter if you're short or long term unemployed, if you aren't see to be working for a job, you should get nothing.

But then, how do you enforce that? I mean, I have rejection letters which I can show to prove I'm looking for jobs but even those are few and far between since it strikes me 90% of jobs (or at least the ones I've applied for) don't even bother sending rejection letters any more. How do you regulate that? How do you prove someone is or isn't looking for a job?

I understand your point, but you're just going to have to do something. I was unemployed for 14 months, until October 2010 and I went round my local area, knocking doors and offering to do odd jobs around the house and garden, painting and walking dogs. I was applying for jobs that suited my qualifications and 13 years of industry experience (IT), but I also had to keep busy and contribute.

Now you might find that you won't be able to get these menial jobs because you're seen as being overqualified. But you've got to do something. When you do walk into an interview, you'll be asked about what you've been doing recently. I was unemployed for 14 months, yet I was able to point towards some OU education, the stuff that I described above, job hunting and charity work. How are you going to answer that question?

I've interviewed hundreds of people over the years in a couple of different countries and it's a question that gets asked if there's a gap in a CV or it's brand new. If I didn't receive a satisfactory answer, then there'd be no chance of getting the role. I don't know how teaching works, probably interview committees, but I suspect that sitting around waiting wouldn't be considered satisfactory for them either.

I'll admit thats a big worry for me. At the moment, my response would be "Job hunting, working a few days doing sub work and trying to get a book published", but I know thats not exactly the greatest of answers. I hope that most employers would realise there are thousands of teachers struggling to get a job at the moment and pretty much all newly qualifed ones are going to have that gap but I agree with you.

I just don't see that as a point for getting a ****ty job packing shelves or scrubbing toilets. I don't see how a school would employ me over, say, someone with genuine teaching experience just because I've worked in medial jobs.

But I get where you're coming from. I'm about to send out another batch of CVs this week and if (/when) I get no responses, I plan to start looking into charity work or something like that. Something worthwhile and not soul-crushing

there seems to be a bit of a myth developing that there is work out there..

Also a fair point actually. I'll point out that although I admit I'm not applying for the jobs, I am keeping an eye on the job listings and so forth, and its not that there's thousands of jobs out there in the low-paying sector. They, too, have been forced to make cuts and reductions. My local Dunnes Stores has had no job positions available for months now and I know from talking to people in it and other similar shops that they are letting people go far more consistantly then they are hiring....

eg: what would be more impressive to a potential employer

1) very well qualified but has been unemployed since they got the qualification

2) well qualified but took the best job they could get in the middle of a recession

to me 2) would be hired everytime (to the type of job you are looking for) shows get up and go, a willingness to roll up your sleeves etc, shows a will to succeed and endure something to get greater reward etc

See, I think that nowadays, there's a Person 3; the person who is qualified and has years of nessecary experience but was let go from their last job due to cutbacks. The person who can point to relevant experience that neither of the newly qualified persons have and walk into the job (if it exists). If presented with those two options, your right, person two gets hired, but nowadays there's person 3 as well and they will always get the job over the other two

But your playing the system, your being a work snob, looking down on other people with jobs the cheek of you. What do you do today to make yourself feel proud?
Your currently a drain on society those people stacking the shelves in your local supermarket are not. Get off your high horse and start making some kind of effort and if your not prepared to do that go to Korea.

Ah, there it is. been expecting that post for a while :rolleyes:
You're right, I don't feel proud. I hate being unemployed. But I still refuse to clean toilets or stack shelves...

But hey. That 14% of the poopulation that's unemployed...I guess that's just cause no one wants to clean toilets and stack shelves, right?

steddyeddy

If the reduction of welfare reduces social mobility then it would be a very stupid thing to do. The reduction of back to education affects the biggest factor in social mobility. education. This isnt good enough a lot of people use back to educaion to advance their skills.

amacca

Teamshadowclan wrote: »

See, I think that nowadays, there's a Person 3; the person who is qualified and has years of nessecary experience but was let go from their last job due to cutbacks. The person who can point to relevant experience that neither of the newly qualified persons have and walk into the job (if it exists). If presented with those two options, your right, person two gets hired, but nowadays there's person 3 as well and they will always get the job over the other two

Apologies, I thought you were person 4

just qualified, no relevant experience, waiting for ideal job to come up


I think you will have more chance of getting relevant experience (if you don't already have it) by taking that shelf packing job etc

sunflower27

amacca wrote: »

see below



call me crazy but your post above would suggest to me that you think the dole should not be lowered as it would not cover mortgage repayments for people

you know people other than yourself...not just your situation

Ask anyone on SW if they want it lowered and you will get a resounding no. I thought that was kind of obvious.

Who wants to live on less? I can imagine the uproar if it does drop though - when it went down the last time, people went mental so I don't see there being a sudden big drop anyway.

No-one on welfare would be happy to get less, be it because they will be able to pay less off their mortgage or whatever. As it stands, my SW monthly payment will not cover my mortgage. I will have to pay another 200e on top of ALL social welfare received to pay my monthly mortgage payment (so no money for food, bills etc). I am certainly not sitting pretty, not by a long shot.

Add to that 2k/year managegement fees that I am struggling to pay off.

It isn't a case of sit back and let welfare sort me out - it doesn't and I would far prefer to not have this constant worry over my head.

Your issue seems to be people are using the money to pay their mortgages. No-one can tell anyone how they should spend it. I qualify for it because I have paid taxes for many, many years and never claimed benefits before. i will use it in whatever way helps me, and for me, that will be holding on to my home as best I can.

amacca

sunflower27 wrote: »

Your issue seems to be people are using the money to pay their mortgages.

my issue is that you keep willfully misinterpreting what I post and painting me into a corner I'm not standing in:eek:


(hint: reread post #90 again - thats a good indication of my issue and your constant obfuscation)

Lord TSC

amacca wrote: »

Apologies, I thought you were person 4

just qualified, no relevant experience, waiting for ideal job to come up


I think you will have more chance of getting relevant experience (if you don't already have it) by taking that shelf packing job etc

I guess we'll agree to disagree then, cause I can't see any principal (or employer) going:
"You know I wasn't going to hire him, but hey! He stacked shelves! That's the type of guy we need!"

I do get where you're coming from; that doing something is better than doing nothing. But I'd rather look for something constructive than doing something simply for the sake of doing something. And I think in the current country, there's always going to be someone with RELEVANT experience applying for jobs who will get the job ahead of someone who stacked shelves...

sunflower27

amacca wrote: »

my issue is that you keep willfully misinterpreting what I post and painting me into a corner I'm not standing in:eek:


(hint: reread post #90 again - thats a good indication of my issue and your constant obfuscation)

I don't need the hints, by the way. I am more than capable of interpreting what you are saying.

SEPT 23 1989

So there will be massive cuts in everything apart from public service wages which will be frozen

amacca

Teamshadowclan wrote: »

I guess we'll agree to disagree then, cause I can't see any principal (or employer) going:
"You know I wasn't going to hire him, but hey! He stacked shelves! That's the type of guy we need!"

That's cool.......I've been on interview boards for teaching positions btw (we have given jobs to people working in supermarkets stacking shelves, as shop assistants, working part time in McDonalds etc etc and so on and so forth - as long as they had the relevant qualifications - some were doing subbing etc - dont recall giving a job to anyone with a long gap in their employment history after getting qualified)

a lot starting off done some subbing and had a part-time job

amacca

sunflower27 wrote: »

I don't need the hints, by the way. I am more than capable of interpreting what you are saying.

your posts replying to mine in this thread would not back that up imo