Major changes to welfare and training ahead...

Sir Oxman

Lux23 wrote: »

But what if you can't find work? I am nearly a year out of PAID employment should I be punished because some other bastards can't go out and look for work? You are assuming there is work out there for everyone and there really isn't.

What's needed is a SW system that adapts - time of recession: periods of support are extended (subject to means), time of good employment prospects: periods are lessened.

Only a fool could dream of it!

oranbhoy67

an entire solution to the social welfare problem by Eric Cartman :
what i think in bold!
1) Make everyone on social welfare participate in community service schemes including street sweeping and meals on wheels etc.. for the unskilled, or for the skilled workers use their skills (e.g. out of work plumber , send them to do plumbing repairs in council houses etc..) so atleast we get something out of them in exchange for dole
id gladly work for the dole.. would like to learn something while i do it though..say half a day menial work for the community..the other half recieving education & help with job hunting!
2) Offer everyone training courses but enforce a system of reduced welfare payments for not completing the course and attending every day / class
agree
3) fingerprint people registering for social welfare
agree
4) ban anyone not born in Ireland from claiming social welfare for longer than they have worked (if you work for 10 years you get 10 years of dole, if you havent worked here and paid tax, you get nothing)
disagree.. iwas born in Scotland - to Irish Parents- which is part of the UK who loaned Ireland a **** load of cash last year before anyone starts the blow-in nonsense
5) Anyone on social welfare longer than theyve been working gets their payments reduced for every year over their paid up years working
would agree if there was plenty of employment going.. but there isnt
6) implement food stamps or put social welfare on a laser card for anyone long term unemployed, under 23 or has never worked, this laser card would not issue cash at atm's , and you would not be allowed purchase cigarettes, alcohol, concert or air travel tickets.
agree with the alcohol but the other stuff .. surely your having a laugh!
7) provide contraception free of charge to people on social welfare and do not issue benefits for any child born while either of the parents are receiving welfare
total bollocks ..but id say this - after a single mother has more than 2 kids then she doesnt get benefits for any further children!
8) use NAMA ghost estates etc as council properties bought at discount rates

agree
9) set up a recruitment agency for people on social welfare that trawls through job listings, matches experience and brings in people on social welfare for interview tips , CV building etc..
well isnt fas meant to do this?? although its useless!
10) Reduced dole rates for anyone living with their parents
agree again!!

amacca

Lux23 wrote: »

Ok take me for example, worked from my leaving certificate right though college until last July, I was 28 and had 7 years of full time stamps.

I went and studied part time to add to my CV while looking for a job and started an unpaid position in May a few days after my exams. I have had 21 interviews and have applied for dozens of jobs. Jobs in my sector are pretty rare but I am sure if I keep pushing I will get something eventually.

Now take Sarah, she left school the same time as me when jobs were abundant but she never stayed in one more than a couple of months, getting enough money together for holidays or just general messing about. The recession hit and those short term jobs just aren't that easy to get anymore so she just sends the odd CV out and claims everything she can.

Why should I be treated the same way she is?

you probably shouldnt

as you paid in continuously for 7 yrs...you should be entitled to more than Sarah imo

but if Sarah gets pregnant (and then does that again) and doesnt put the fathers name on the birth cert but has him live with her anyway etc

then she can have a house + a suite of other benefits etc and so on and so forth

paradoxically, she could get much better treatment than you...I'd like this bull**** tackled first..

Lux23

We aren't going to get that, all Irish people are capable of doing is telling their young/talented to leave the country when times get tough, old habits die hard.

Or they create schemes that enable employers to turn entry level positions into internships that are paid for with taxpayers money meaning businesses has more profit to pocket.

1chippy

they are there to open gates into different areas of work, not to magically turn someone into leader in their field overnight. the tax incentives given on the back to work scheme would nearly make me want to close my business, stay on the dole long enough so i qualify for it.. but there arent nearly enough people using it because that means they have to take a chance.

oh i nearly forgot. the ones who created the jobs dont qualify for dole.

Lux23

amacca wrote: »

you probably shouldnt

as you paid in continuously for 7 yrs...you should be entitled to more than Sarah imo

but if Sarah gets pregnant (and then does that again) and doesnt put the fathers name on the birth cert but has him live with her anyway etc

then she can have a house + a suite of other benefits etc and so on and so forth

paradoxically, she could get much better treatment than you...I'd like this bull**** tackled first..

Well thats another problem area that should have been tackled years ago.

oranbhoy67

trishx wrote: »

In the UK, job seekers allowance is only £60 .How do they survive?

its actually less - £100 a fortnight.. but the cost of living there is way cheaper.. & if your unemployed you get your full rent paid.. having said that it is a lot tougher to live on than the dole here!

but then again there is plenty more work in the UK so less excuse to be on it!

7sr2z3fely84g5

Child benefit in uk is £20 a week,with £13 for other children.

Lux23

1chippy wrote: »

they are there to open gates into different areas of work, not to magically turn someone into leader in their field overnight. the tax incentives given on the back to work scheme would nearly make me want to close my business, stay on the dole long enough so i qualify for it.. but there arent nearly enough people using it because that means they have to take a chance.

oh i nearly forgot. the ones who created the jobs dont qualify for dole.

Well that is wrong, directors should be able to draw down social welfare payments too.

But the FAS courses available are for people who haven't gotten an academic education or some kind of work experience, they hark back to the boom when all Fas had to deal with was people who needed to learn about computers or complete no hopers who needed a FETAC level 5 in bag packing. There are no courses for someone like me, I did request to do a website design one and I was told it was only for people with graphic design experience. Some of the new springboard courses are good though, applied for the Webelevant but doubt I will get it.

Lux23

Braylee Wailing Garbage wrote: »

Child benefit in uk is £20 a week,with £13 for other children.

And they get free dental and medical care, the system in the UK is worse then here no wonder 10 million people are on benefits there, can never understand why people use it as an example of a better system when its so widely abused that it must be attractive to some.

jc84

I agree that the social welfare system needs to be reviewed but if they are just going to cut everyone without trying to weed out the fraudsters then that's wrong, it funny that the reviews of the system happen now when there are very little jobs for everyone but when there was loads of jobs during the boom, the dole was 208 euro p/w, the reason the dole is so high is because the cost of living in Ireland is so high

And I also think it's completely unfair that self employed people can't get access to welfare if they have no work, but the government is happy to tax the balls of these self employed people

jc84

Lux23 wrote: »

And they get free dental and medical care, the system in the UK is worse then here no wonder 10 million people are on benefits there, can never understand why people use it as an example of a better system when its so widely abused that it must be attractive to some.

People never mention all the additional benefits in the uk, they use the £50 p week to make the Irish benefit seem lavishly outrageous, seems the government is doing this too as they often bang on about bringing it in line with other countries, but you could guarantee we'd see no free medical or dental care

Grizzly 45

Eric Cartman wrote: »

an entire solution to the social welfare problem by Eric Cartman :

1) Make everyone on social welfare participate in community service schemes including street sweeping and meals on wheels etc.. for the unskilled, or for the skilled workers use their skills (e.g. out of work plumber , send them to do plumbing repairs in council houses etc..) so atleast we get something out of them in exchange for dole

Good idea..And who will train them in things like Health&saftey in manual work,like lifting things or other manual skills.If they do this watch the "compo claims" go out the door with the unskilled .Do you REALLY want some untrained scobe or skanger looking after your elderly parent in a nursing home or alone at home??what a great way for them to come back later and rob the elderly.I bet the unions and county council workers wil have plenty to say about people "taking their jobs" by doing their work as well.

2) Offer everyone training courses but enforce a system of reduced welfare payments for not completing the course and attending every day / class

Right,and after doing these courses.....???Where are the jobs??You will either have a cadre of professional course goers,or lots of people qualified for make work courses still looking for work.The old call of emigrate wont work either...This is a global depression.It is just as bad everywhere else as here.How long do you think Irish people will be welcome out in other countries that belive in looking after their own people first?Expect to see the No Dogs or Irish signs soon again in Europe and elsewhere.

3) fingerprint people registering for social welfare

WHAT exactly will this achive?Apart from another wasteful electronic project that will cost more than originally planned,wont no doubt work or deliver its promises,and just keep tech nerds and consultants in clover,and is already easily bypassed .The USA has had thumb printing on their drivers liscenses for years and it has done nothing to balk fraud.This is just another "do somthing" plan that thas Big brother written all over it.

[/4) ban anyone not born in Ireland from claiming social welfare for longer than they have worked (if you work for 10 years you get 10 years of dole, if you havent worked here and paid tax, you get nothing)

The most sensible suggestion sofar..:D

5) Anyone on social welfare longer than theyve been working gets their payments reduced for every year over their paid up years working

6) implement food stamps or put social welfare on a laser card for anyone long term unemployed, under 23 or has never worked, this laser card would not issue cash at atm's , and you would not be allowed purchase cigarettes, alcohol, concert or air travel tickets

Food stamps,see the USA again.Doesnt really work as they can be traded in certain shops,street corners for cash,booze etc. Another crazy electronic magic bullet solution that will go into cost overruns,make a politican rich and not defeat the problem .

.

7) provide contraception free of charge to people on social welfare and do not issue benefits for any child born while either of the parents are receiving welfare

Better idea,Introduce a one child rule like in China.Everyone is entitled to ONE mistake in their lives.So yes they can have social welfare,free housing etc.BUT both parents must undergo compulsory sterilisation!
That way it wont become an option of a brood sow lifestyle.They can have as much sex as they want and wont be a burden on the Govt if they get pregnent,and there might be an effort made to raise the one kid into somthing decent without it having to compete with wall to wall brothers and sisters.

8

) use NAMA ghost estates etc as council properties bought at discount rates

Who is paying for them???Simple fact is ,if you want a house,you take whats given on the council list.Wether it is in Dublin4 or Moyross.luck of the draw,take it or leave it.
Want a new house on a NAMA estate?Buy it at a weekly cut off your dole say 20 euros PW.It might be finally your grandkids,but it is yours,and you will be responsible for its upkeep and maintenence.Nothing like owning and having to pay for it to keep it in good order.

9) set up a recruitment agency for people on social welfare that trawls through job listings, matches experience and brings in people on social welfare for interview tips , CV building etc..

Er...isnt that what FAS and all the rest is supposed to be doing???

10) Reduced dole rates for anyone living with their parents

Better off if they were,otherwise everyone will simply push off and demand free housing and all the rest.
Maybe when the dept of social welfare issues tickets for furnishing the houses.Does it necessarily have to be Harvey Normans or Power city and Brown Thomas?? Maybe a budget of 200 euros to furnish the house out of 2nd hand furniture and thrift shops would be a better option?

7sr2z3fely84g5

jc84 wrote: »

but when there was loads of jobs during the boom, the dole was 208 euro p/w,

Odd thing is the last gov actually increased it for some odd reason during the good times,actually rewarding those who were on it, the 2003 payment was €124.80,and kept increasing the payment every year .

Raze_them_all

oranbhoy67 wrote: »

an entire solution to the social welfare problem by Eric Cartman :
what i think in bold!
1) Make everyone on social welfare participate in community service schemes including street sweeping and meals on wheels etc.. for the unskilled, or for the skilled workers use their skills (e.g. out of work plumber , send them to do plumbing repairs in council houses etc..) so atleast we get something out of them in exchange for dole

You do realise working plumbers have contracts to this, thus by giving the work to unemployed plumbers you are taking work from plumbers who are working, paying people less to do it, thus making the problem worse?


2) Offer everyone training courses but enforce a system of reduced welfare payments for not completing the course and attending every day / class
I paid for my own courses because fas tried to make me do a ****ing ecdl course, 3.5k later I'm a qualified personal trainer. Fas can suck my nuts as I recently had to go back into them to see if thewy had courses, they had 3 I'm actually interested in, in the other side of the country and still haven't got back to me.


3) fingerprint people registering for social welfare
No thanks, I'm not a criminal I won't be treated like a potetional fraudster.


4) ban anyone not born in Ireland from claiming social welfare for longer than they have worked (if you work for 10 years you get 10 years of dole, if you havent worked here and paid tax, you get nothing)
Agreed


5) Anyone on social welfare longer than theyve been working gets their payments reduced for every year over their paid up years working
would agree if there was plenty of employment going.. but there isnt


6) implement food stamps or put social welfare on a laser card for anyone long term unemployed, under 23 or has never worked, this laser card would not issue cash at atm's , and you would not be allowed purchase cigarettes, alcohol, concert or air travel tickets.
Whats the difference betweena 22 yr old and a 23yr old that you chose that as the cut off point?

7) provide contraception free of charge to people on social welfare and do not issue benefits for any child born while either of the parents are receiving welfare
Contraception should be at the very least tax free.

8) use NAMA ghost estates etc as council properties bought at discount rates

agree


9) set up a recruitment agency for people on social welfare that trawls through job listings, matches experience and brings in people on social welfare for interview tips , CV building etc..
This is Fas. Fas is a joke.
10) Reduced dole rates for anyone living with their parents
What about parents who may be out of work, had severe pay cuts and the only way they can survive is by the child helping out with bills?

.

angelfire9

Eric Cartman wrote: »

an entire solution to the social welfare problem by Eric Cartman

My comments in bold:

1) Make everyone on social welfare participate in community service schemes including street sweeping and meals on wheels etc.. for the unskilled, or for the skilled workers use their skills (e.g. out of work plumber , send them to do plumbing repairs in council houses etc..) so atleast we get something out of them in exchange for dole
What would you do with the people who have children to mind? Bring them with you while you sweep the streets?? :rolleyes:

2) Offer everyone training courses but enforce a system of reduced welfare payments for not completing the course and attending every day / class
No problem with that, but I have been refused permission by Fas/Social welfare to retrain in a new field because I have a level 9 qualification already so they'll need to change that system

3) fingerprint people registering for social welfare
Agreed, no problem with this, anything to cut down fraud!!

4) ban anyone not born in Ireland from claiming social welfare for longer than they have worked (if you work for 10 years you get 10 years of dole, if you havent worked here and paid tax, you get nothing)
I would agree in principle but i'm not sure if the EU would let us do this??

5) Anyone on social welfare longer than theyve been working gets their payments reduced for every year over their paid up years working
No problem with that

6) implement food stamps or put social welfare on a laser card for anyone long term unemployed, under 23 or has never worked, this laser card would not issue cash at atm's , and you would not be allowed purchase cigarettes, alcohol, concert or air travel tickets.
How does one pay their gas/esb bill? Or your TV licence? Or your house/car insurance? Or car tax? Not practical and to be honest i'd find it extremely demeaning

7) provide contraception free of charge to people on social welfare and do not issue benefits for any child born while either of the parents are receiving welfare
My youngest was born while I was in receipt of JSB she was conceived while I still had a job (the company i worked for went into liquidation over night)

8) use NAMA ghost estates etc as council properties bought at discount rates
Agreed

9) set up a recruitment agency for people on social welfare that trawls through job listings, matches experience and brings in people on social welfare for interview tips , CV building etc..
Another quango??

10) Reduced dole rates for anyone living with their parents
Agreed

Well, that's my 2 cents worth
Everyone's circumstances are different and that has to be understood
I have 2 kids one is 9 yrs the other 7 months
It wouldn't pay me to go and do a minimum wage job

Lets look at an example:
Single parent, in receipt of OPF and rent allowance at present goes out to work for the minimum wage

€8.65 per hour before tax isn't it?
SO that is €337.35 gross every week for a 39 hour week
After PRSI €8.41, PAYE NIL, USC €10.51 for a single person they'd come out with €318.42 per week into their hands
for convenience multiply x 4 weeks to get a monthly net figure of €1379.83
Add in child benefit of €140 per child for a working parent net monthly income =€1519.83

They lose rent allowance so they need to pay €650 a month in rent now
Disposable income is now €869.83 a month
Estimate childcare for a baby at €120 a week or €480 a month gives a disposable income monthly of €389.83 per month or €97.46 per week which has to cover food for 2 persons, heating, electricity, medical card is gone after 12 months so hopefully neither of them get sick & need the doctor

VERSUS on Social Welfare:
Jobseekers: €188 x4=752
+Allowance for child €29.80x4=119.2
OPF €188x4=752
+Child allowance €29.80x4=119.2
Child Benefit: €140 per month
Rent allowance €50 a week (ESTIMATE I DON'T KNOW)
Full medical card
Net monthly income to spend on food, bills etc €2082.40

melekalikimaka

Acacia wrote: »

This country will lose a generation of its best and brightest.

i cant imagine the best and brightest being the ones out of a job

Eric Cartman

angelfire9 wrote: »

My comments in bold:

1) Make everyone on social welfare participate in community service schemes including street sweeping and meals on wheels etc.. for the unskilled, or for the skilled workers use their skills (e.g. out of work plumber , send them to do plumbing repairs in council houses etc..) so atleast we get something out of them in exchange for dole
What would you do with the people who have children to mind? Bring them with you while you sweep the streets?? :rolleyes:

2) Offer everyone training courses but enforce a system of reduced welfare payments for not completing the course and attending every day / class
No problem with that, but I have been refused permission by Fas/Social welfare to retrain in a new field because I have a level 9 qualification already so they'll need to change that system

3) fingerprint people registering for social welfare
Agreed, no problem with this, anything to cut down fraud!!

4) ban anyone not born in Ireland from claiming social welfare for longer than they have worked (if you work for 10 years you get 10 years of dole, if you havent worked here and paid tax, you get nothing)
I would agree in principle but i'm not sure if the EU would let us do this??

5) Anyone on social welfare longer than theyve been working gets their payments reduced for every year over their paid up years working
No problem with that

6) implement food stamps or put social welfare on a laser card for anyone long term unemployed, under 23 or has never worked, this laser card would not issue cash at atm's , and you would not be allowed purchase cigarettes, alcohol, concert or air travel tickets.
How does one pay their gas/esb bill? Or your TV licence? Or your house/car insurance? Or car tax? Not practical and to be honest i'd find it extremely demeaning

7) provide contraception free of charge to people on social welfare and do not issue benefits for any child born while either of the parents are receiving welfare
My youngest was born while I was in receipt of JSB she was conceived while I still had a job (the company i worked for went into liquidation over night)

8) use NAMA ghost estates etc as council properties bought at discount rates
Agreed

9) set up a recruitment agency for people on social welfare that trawls through job listings, matches experience and brings in people on social welfare for interview tips , CV building etc..
Another quango??

10) Reduced dole rates for anyone living with their parents
Agreed

Well, that's my 2 cents worth
Everyone's circumstances are different and that has to be understood
I have 2 kids one is 9 yrs the other 7 months
It wouldn't pay me to go and do a minimum wage job

ok change born to conceived then , and most of peoples problems with my posts seem to be against fas, i agree fas needs a major overhaul

to others - obviously if you had to mind kids then you wouldnt have to be out doing work , also as for paying bills and the like, they can be paid for by laser card , and finding it demeaning - its only for the long term unemployed and people on the dole longer than working , to be fair those are not the people who lost jobs because of the recession , those are the ones who didnt want jobs when there were loads.

I know theres no work now, but WHEN ireland gets back on track having an overspill of skilled people will help attract outside investment and get us back working

mackg

gambiaman wrote: »

It wasn't aimed as a missile at you, you replied to a question I put to amacca who supports an across the board halving of the JSB/A rate and who stated that they thought the feckless outnumbered the workers on the dole.
You clarified it (on their behalf) and I then asked the question in which you are taking umbrage.

As for 'thanks', no thanks.

Lux23 wrote: »

That wasn't at you??

Apologies to you both I picked you up wrong.

i cant imagine the best and brightest being the ones out of a job

What about the bright ones who graduated this year or will be next, why take the risk of going into industry here when the options abroad look far safer? I'm in college and all everyone talks about these days is where are the centres of their industry abroad.

Sir Oxman

melekalikimaka wrote: »

i cant imagine the best and brightest being the ones out of a job

Oh dear.

Sir Oxman

mackg wrote: »

Apologies to you both I picked you up wrong.



What about the bright ones who graduated this year or will be next, why take the risk of going into industry here when the options abroad look far safer? I'm in college and all everyone talks about these days is where are the centres of their industry abroad.

No sweat, apologies if I sounded narky.

Agree with your point completely.

Ouchette

trishx wrote: »

In the UK, job seekers allowance is only £60 .How do they survive?

I've lived on it before, briefly. It's difficult. It covers basic food, you get housing benefit for rent, bills are a struggle, and there's next to nothing left over for emergencies, let alone entertainment. The big problem was that it didn't cover the cost of getting from where I was living to where the jobs were for interviews.

Basically, it keeps you alive but by the end of week 2 or 3 you'd be ready to start cleaning toilets, if only to earn the train fare to find something else. Working as intended, I think.

Le King

Unfortunately it's the only way to clear our spongers. I feel for the guys who have worked most of their lives and paid taxes and now will have to take a cut here.

Also why are people allowed to claim for 2+ years for benefits besides people with disabilities and those who aren't able to work.

A system should be in place where those who are living at home should automatically receive reduced benefit.

The number of people I know who have been claiming for 5+ years is ridiculous. We could afford this during the Celtic Tiger but not now. Also people who are claiming benefits should be tested to see if they are applying for jobs etc. The amount of people refusing jobs because doing so "deprives" them of their medical card is insane. The whole thing needs to be revamped.

Raze_them_all

Le King wrote: »

Unfortunately it's the only way to clear our spongers. I feel for the guys who have worked most of their lives and paid taxes and now will have to take a cut here.

Also why are people allowed to claim for 2+ years for benefits besides people with disabilities and those who aren't able to work.

A system should be in place where those who are living at home should automatically receive reduced benefit.

The number of people I know who have been claiming for 5+ years is ridiculous. We could afford this during the Celtic Tiger but not now. Also people who are claiming benefits should be tested to see if they are applying for jobs etc. The amount of people refusing jobs because doing so "deprives" them of their medical card is insane. The whole thing needs to be revamped.

bastards. I'm on the dole and i didnt apply for rent allowence when i didn't live at home, never applied for a medical card. I get my less than full dole a week and yet im classed as someone who's sponging off the system by some posters because im under 23

Tehachapi

Le King wrote: »

A system should be in place where those who are living at home should automatically receive reduced benefit.

That won't work. Punishing people who are careful enough not to have plunged into mortgage debt or paying high rents. You do realise these people will just move out of "home" to receive their full payment again + additional rent allowance at a further cost to the state.

Cut the single unemployed person living in the family home , claiming €100/week. But wait - if you have 7 children - here have your full payment, a free house paid with rent supplement, medical card, child benefit, household benefits package, and a raft of other payments.

I detest the way the system punishes people for being careful.

If you are prudent enough to put savings aside while working, or ambitious enough to set up your own business - no social welfare for you I'm afraid!

Cautious enough not to have children until you can afford them? - We must cut your social welfare!

However if you just recklessly spend every cent, pop out loads of kids, claim single parents for years, do absolutely nothing in relation to career/education/work - let's leave these people alone and not touch any of their payments, they "need" them.

It's all bs.

Shelga

To those who can't find work in their field, refuse to work a menial job and won't emigrate (I understand some people can't)- what exactly is it that you want? The recession to be reversed and plenty of jobs for everyone again? Not going to happen any time in the next decade.

There comes a point where you have to stop whinging and just get on with it. Ireland is my home, I would like to settle down there one day and have a family, and I don't like the feeling that I'm being 'forced out' more than anyone else. However, I am moving to England next month to begin a job, having applied for 100+ in my field in Ireland since graduating last year. I also worked a boring job I had no interest in full-time for six months, and worked a free internship. Hated it, but it was a means to an end. It was worth it to be able to talk to my interviewer in England about what a hard worker I was.

I choose to look at my situation like this: that employers from other nations would be delighted to have me and help me build a career, rather than 'Ireland hates me.' There are many advantages to living abroad and experiencing new things. If I choose to move home in 2-3 years, I'll be in a hell of a lot better position than I am currently.

I'm leaving my boyfriend, family and friends, but anything's better than being on the dole. I recognise that I have no real experience in my field, and definitely think some graduates have their head in the clouds re. expectations.

Jobs are not going to materialise in front of you. Suck it up and do what needs to be done.

Unless there is a system set up to target those who view the file as a career and will never work then any changes to the system are only going to hurt those who in this current economical climate are in desperate need of help.

They need to target and penalise those families who see claiming the de as a career.
I know of a number of families with 3 and 4 generations signing on, not one of them having ever worked a day in their lives. In one family there are 6 or 7 signing on and have 4 house between them. One of the girls got herself pregnant simply to get a house, she's only recently turned 18 and will never work a day in her life. While many families struggle to feed their kids and put petrol I'm there cars these people are getting taxis every time they want to go to the shop, have 50 inch TVs hanging on the Walls and will have the social welfare office bending over backwards to guarantee that every imaginable benefit is passed on to them.

saywhatyousee

I think its amazing the amount of coverage the "dole" gets.Its is 4.5 billion out of the 21 billion social welfare budget.You would also have to question how much money will actually be saved by reducing the dole to u-23.I think its a bad idea all its going to do is plunge a whole generation of young men into criminality.

angelfire9

Shelga wrote: »

To those who can't find work in their field, refuse to work a menial job and won't emigrate (I understand some people can't)- what exactly is it that you want? The recession to be reversed and plenty of jobs for everyone again? Not going to happen any time in the next decade.

There comes a point where you have to stop whinging and just get on with it. Ireland is my home, I would like to settle down there one day and have a family, and I don't like the feeling that I'm being 'forced out' more than anyone else. However, I am moving to England next month to begin a job, having applied for 100+ in my field in Ireland since graduating last year. I also worked a boring job I had no interest in full-time for six months, and worked a free internship. Hated it, but it was a means to an end. It was worth it to be able to talk to my interviewer in England about what a hard worker I was.

I choose to look at my situation like this: that employers from other nations would be delighted to have me and help me build a career, rather than 'Ireland hates me.' There are many advantages to living abroad and experiencing new things. If I choose to move home in 2-3 years, I'll be in a hell of a lot better position than I am currently.

I'm leaving my boyfriend, family and friends, but anything's better than being on the dole. I recognise that I have no real experience in my field, and definitely think some graduates have their head in the clouds re. expectations.

Jobs are not going to materialise in front of you. Suck it up and do what needs to be done.

I can't emigrate I have a husband a mortgage & 2 kids
Make no mistake though if I was young free and single I'd be gone
What do I want?
A job that will cover my childcare & give me something to live on

I have applied for over 60 jobs this month alone in admin & accounts
I got 1 interview and 1 letter (from another position) telling me I'm not successful! Its depressing as hell!
Most jobs don't even bother acknowledging your existence never mind a letter telling you the post is filled!

Freddie59

melekalikimaka wrote: »

i cant imagine the best and brightest being the ones out of a job

Agreed. But sometimes even highly educated people can become lazy (I know of some) and the €194 a week from the dole is a disincentive to work for a few, as some employers are offering a pittance for graduates starting out in the workforce.

mackg

angelfire9 wrote: »

I can't emigrate I have a husband a mortgage & 2 kids
Make no mistake though if I was young free and single I'd be gone
What do I want?
A job that will cover my childcare & give me something to live on

I have applied for over 60 jobs this month alone in admin & accounts
I got 1 interview and 1 letter (from another position) telling me I'm not successful! Its depressing as hell!
Most jobs don't even bother acknowledging your existence never mind a letter telling you the post is filled!

I was thinking about this and although emigration does not directly apply to you it is still probably the thing that will save you eventually. There are definitely more and more jobs becoming availible, not enough for total employment or close to it but an improvement none the less, this must be in part due to the mass exodus of the younger generation who are not yet tied here by the factors certain other posters have outlined. They are also coming straight out of school or college and never adding themselves to the welfare bill. Less people on SW the more money availible to the people on it (in theory).

I've said it before and I'll say it again.. If you still have broadband and a laptop to post on boards with, you're doing fine. When you sell the laptop for food angelfire, let me know.

Crazy Horse 6

Major problem is to many people out there who won't work a job they view as below tham. I have a friend like that who won't take a job in Lidl because he used to work as a car saleman for a luxury dealership and made 80-100k a year at one stage. He would actually rather sit on his arse and get the social until things pick up.:mad:

mackg

Deleted User wrote: »

I've said it before and I'll say it again.. If you still have broadband and a laptop to post on boards with, you're doing fine. When you sell the laptop for food angelfire, let me know.

How?

Crazy Horse 6

angelfire9 wrote: »

I can't emigrate I have a husband a mortgage & 2 kids
Make no mistake though if I was young free and single I'd be gone
What do I want?
A job that will cover my childcare & give me something to live on

I have applied for over 60 jobs this month alone in admin & accounts
I got 1 interview and 1 letter (from another position) telling me I'm not successful! Its depressing as hell!
Most jobs don't even bother acknowledging your existence never mind a letter telling you the post is filled!

Keep the chin up angelfire and feck the begrudgers.

Crazy Horse 6

Deleted User wrote: »

I've said it before and I'll say it again.. If you still have broadband and a laptop to post on boards with, you're doing fine. When you sell the laptop for food angelfire, let me know.

Narrow minded BS

theg81der

Great plan lets not tackle our tax exiles, high paid public servants (not the people at the bottom of that system), politicians pay, banks, bond holders......no lets hit the people forced onto the dole to keep the above rich :rolleyes:

And I am lost as to where some people on this thread are getting their figures from - theres too many to quote and reply to! If you have a minimum wage job on offer or even below minimum if there is a training element me and my husband would bite the hand of ye to get it. ANYTHING is better than the dole.

The only suggestion I would make is that we should have jobs, training and benefits as an integrated system (maybe something using your pps to access a jobs database), so at least they can identify genuine jobseekers.

Shelga

Just to clarify, I was referring to people around my own age (24), with no children, sick family members etc.

My heart goes out to people who are trying to raise a family in this recession. The country has completely collapsed.

monkeypants

Ouchette wrote: »

The big problem was that it didn't cover the cost of getting from where I was living to where the jobs were for interviews.

The jobcentre will give you a travel warranty which can be used to travel to interviews. It's not widely advertised though, once I realised that it was available I used it, but I did buy some of my own train tickets at the beginning.

Acacia

melekalikimaka wrote: »

i cant imagine the best and brightest being the ones out of a job

Then clearly you haven't been around any dole queues lately, and quite frankly, you show a misunderdstanding of the unemployment crisis. There are plenty of hard-working, intelligent young people who are out of work through no fault of their own.

They can't get a job in their chosen career ( i.e. the one they have studied for), but they're told they're over-qualified for stuff like bar work, retail, etc. I was told in the FAS employment office to downplay the fact I have an M.A. if I wanted to find work, even for office or admin roles. So it's a catch-22 for young people.

It's especially infuriating to be told that you're lazy, over-entitled and so forth when you're just trying to make the best of a sh1t situation that was brought about by actions put in place (i.e. the housing madness) when most of the young people out of work now were still in primary school.

Quite frankly, I can't believe the stereotype of the lazy dole-sponging waster is still around when it's glaringly obvious they're not the only ones on the dole. Why weren't the spongers targeted back in the good old days? Oh yes, because everybody was too busy riding the Celtic Tiger gravy train themselves to care.

srsly78

What's the MA in? Something useful?

Lux23

srsly78 wrote: »

What's the MA in? Something useful?

How do you quantify useful? Its obviously useful in the field he has studied to be in.

I have qualifications but its really my experience that fecks me up when it comes to applying for jobs which I wouldn't mind doing, I never worked in a shop or bar so would enjoy the experience while I find something else. I actually asked my Local Employment Service to help me strip my CV down for this but I got no calls back with it because it looked a bit like I did nothing for years.

I do have about four years experience in a warehouse but I left there in 2005 so its hard to hide what I did since then.

srsly78

A useful qualification would be something that can get you a job.

Odysseus

I haven't claimed the dole for over 15 years even more, my work bring me into contact with people who never worked a day in their lifes. However, the bullsh!t here about people on the dole and way of making cuts is just that bullsh!t.

The idea of cutting a person's dole because they are involved in anti-social/criminal behaviour is even worse, those people will just rob more. Those who are anti dole I doubt they ever had to collect it long term. I left Ireland when I was 19 because I could not get work, but that is not the right option for everyone. Really some people need a reality check about what life on the dole is like. I think some peoples high horses are that high they can't see what is happening on the ground.

Lux23

srsly78 wrote: »

A useful qualification would be something that can get you a job.

Most qualifications are there to help you get a job in the appropriate field.

melekalikimaka

Acacia wrote: »

It's especially infuriating to be told that you're lazy, over-entitled and so forth when you're just trying to make the best of a sh1t situation that was brought about by actions put in place (i.e. the housing madness) when most of the young people out of work now were still in primary school.

you choices are as most young people need to decide. stay on the over paid irish dole system, take any job til something better turns up, or leave the country and seek work. i understand some have family commitments and cant leave, and i understand some are only out of work a few months, anyone over a year needs to seriously reevaluate their options, as there are plenty other than sitting at home moaning on boards

angelfire9

Deleted User wrote: »

I've said it before and I'll say it again.. If you still have broadband and a laptop to post on boards with, you're doing fine. When you sell the laptop for food angelfire, let me know.

I use the PC at home to apply for jobs and post on boards (which helps my sanity most of the time)

I also use it to upskill via online courses in Payroll, IPASS etc so that my CV shows that I'm not sitting on my ass waiting for jobs to fall at my lap

The number of people who believe that to be in receipt of social welfare means that you should be living on bread & water all week never fails to amaze me

Krusader

Seanbeag1 wrote: »

Yes because fingerprinting for identification purpose is just as bad as going to jail.:rolleyes:

Invasion of privacy, big brother is watching, 1984 and all that craic

Krusader

I can't wait to get back working so I can look down my nose at all us dole scroungers, scum we are, just scum!

Lux23

Crosáidí wrote: »

I can't wait to get back working so I can look down my nose at all us dole scroungers, scum we are, just scum!

I know. Even though I am working full time for my dole I am still scrounging the money I paid into the system over the 11 years.