Freeze on cuts after Croke Park accord

Degsy

fliball123 wrote: »

Maybe you are maybe you are not..I mean look at what quantifies a pay increment in your place...(absolutely nothing)...Do you even realise why people are annoyed at the CPA and whats happening...Its obvious you completely oblivious to whats going on in this country...The fact that turn and say money is being wasted on dolees...The majority of these people were part of the private sector and were paying your wage and this is one of the main reasons why the money is in a minus figure at present so on top of these people losing there job you want to cut more money from them and for trying to help them gain employment....Good Man...No doubt spoungers and people who do not want to contribute by not taking jobs or courses will be targetted according to Harney ..its a damn shame we cannot do the same with the public sector...

Wellnow its down to the Public Sector to pay the dole for those who couldnt be bothered looking for work...see how many irish people working in the service industries will show you how hard they're trying to "gain employment".

Degsy

careca11 wrote: »

Haven't got the balls to tackle the overpaid union Parasites

The dole scroungers should go on strike..refuse to work and....oh.

fliball123

Degsy wrote: »

The dole scroungers should go on strike..refuse to work and....oh.

Careful what if all the private sector workers went on strike?

jessiejam

Degsy wrote: »

The dole scroungers should go on strike..refuse to work and....oh.

Ya know Degsy, part of me agrees with the second half of this comment. (I think the first part was a bit harsh). The dole should be slashed for those who couldn't be bothered to get up off theirs arses when work was aplenty.
When this country was booming the government kept uping their payments. Why would you bother getting a job back then, you got an 'increment' every budget!......

They should have been cutting them every year, unless there was a genuine reason why they couldn't go to work (illness and the like).

They are the people whos' dole should be cut. Not the poor misfortunes who have lost their jobs in the last 3 years.

femur61

2cool4school wrote: »

:rolleyes:

*sigh* the savings made from the changes brought in through the croke park agreement obviously

theres no point in pretending there havent been savings made

Well I know for one the cost for tendering products/services has reduced drmatically.

femur61

fliball123 wrote: »

Careful what if all the private sector workers went on strike?

Careful I got banned for a day yesterday for suggesting that.

fliball123

Degsy wrote: »

Wellnow its down to the Public Sector to pay the dole for those who couldnt be bothered looking for work...see how many irish people working in the service industries will show you how hard they're trying to "gain employment".

What about the scroungers and numpties in the Public sector getting a wage for doing fcuk all..people in glass houses

fliball123

femur61 wrote: »

Careful I got banned for a day yesterday for suggesting that.

Why would you be banned for that..I know of circles in the private sector actually thinking this way if the ps is left untouched and we are taxed to obliviion also it would be a counter if the ps do strike after they get cuts...Its time to meet this PS/Union force with force (peaceful force do)

jessiejam

fliball123 wrote: »

What about the scroungers and numpties in the Public sector getting a wage for doing fcuk all..people in glass houses

I suppose you could turn that around the other way also and say what about all the people in certain areas in the PS doing 2 peoples jobs staying late without pay etc. Stressed out of their minds. And I am talking about those on the bottom of the scale.
You simply can't paint everyone with the same brush.
Similarly you cant assume all dole claimants are scroungers and wasters, as we all know that is not the case!

fliball123

jessiejam wrote: »

I suppose you could turn that around the other way also and say what about all the people in certain areas in the PS doing 2 peoples jobs staying late without pay etc. Stressed out of their minds. And I am talking about those on the bottom of the scale.
You simply can't paint everyone with the same brush.
Similarly you cant assume all dole claimants are scroungers and wasters, as we all know that is not the case!

And dont forget the private sector people paying your wage who will need to be taxed extra aswell and doing thus said extra hours for less pay aswell as the threat of being maid redundant looming large on their shoulders..I work nearly 60 odd hours a week no OT its just the way things have landed on me..Am my moaning over having a paycut last year with increased hours..NO as I see people who graduated college with me losing their jobs same goes with family members....I aggree you cannot tar everyone with the same brush ..BUT anyone who thinks that the PS should be immune to more cuts are being rediculous..and it will play out there has to be more cuts as the we cannot keep borrowing 18 billion a year

jessiejam

Tell that to the PS worker whos on 23k per year with a wife and 3 kids to support.... don't think he would argree with you

I believe (prob be slaughtered for this) that there should be a higher tax bracket brought in at 48%. I don't think its fair that the medium to low income workers who are keeping this country alfoat may have more cuts, be it public or private sector.

sollar

fliball123 wrote: »

Why would you be banned for that..I know of circles in the private sector actually thinking this way if the ps is left untouched and we are taxed to obliviion also it would be a counter if the ps do strike after they get cuts...Its time to meet this PS/Union force with force (peaceful force do)

So public servants don't pay taxes then?? God thats great news I thought we had to pay taxes too!!

waster81

It was private sector workers that landed us in the sceanrio we are faced with

1. Private sector bankers pushing for increased de regulation
2. Private sector bankers lending out money without looking for relevant paper work
3. Private sector auditors who signed off on the accounts
4. Private sector property developers who pushed up price of development land
5. Private sector employees who were paid huge bonuses etc for short term "profits" they "made"
6. Private sector employees who now whinge and moan about their stupidity not to enter the public service
7. Private sector voters who kept voting in successive governments because they agreed with the tax policies etc
8 Private sector who have ensured through their idiocy that there are nor over 450000 on the register

Nody

jessiejam wrote: »

Tell that to the PS worker whos on 23k per year with a wife and 3 kids to support.... don't think he would argree with you

I believe (prob be slaughtered for this) that there should be a higher tax bracket brought in at 48%. I don't think its fair that the medium to low income workers who are keeping this country alfoat may have more cuts, be it public or private sector.

You are aware that over 80% of all income tax comes from around 10% of the population, yes? If you want to talk about more taxes start with making more then 50% of the population pay any income tax...

Degsy

Banks,Estate Agents,Solicitors,Mortage Brokers,Construction Companies,Property Developers..all private sector concerns and they did a GREAT job of destroying the country.

Teh Private sector is no longer profitable because of short-term greed,lazyness and extreme incompetence..now they wan the people still working to pay for their mistakes..nice try but it wont fly.

Nody

waster81 wrote: »

It was private sector workers that landed us in the sceanrio we are faced with

1. Private sector bankers pushing for increased de regulation
2. Private sector bankers lending out money without looking for relevant paper work
3. Private sector auditors who signed off on the accounts
4. Private sector property developers who pushed up price of development land
5. Private sector employees who were paid huge bonuses etc for short term "profits" they "made"
6. Private sector employees who now whinge and moan about their stupidity not to enter the public service
7. Private sector voters who kept voting in successive governments because they agreed with the tax policies etc

Good thing to know that no public sectors voted, had any unions threatening to strike unless they got salary increases, changed comparison group when shown that they were wrong, had slush funds around for their top brass, insisted on more bloat in the PS or told the government that all was fine when private company experts warned them about the bubble.

See how fun it is to make up statements with out actually bothering with debating?

fliball123

jessiejam wrote: »

Tell that to the PS worker whos on 23k per year with a wife and 3 kids to support.... don't think he would argree with you

I believe (prob be slaughtered for this) that there should be a higher tax bracket brought in at 48%. I don't think its fair that the medium to low income workers who are keeping this country alfoat may have more cuts, be it public or private sector.

Hang on contrary to your post..The top 10% earners pay something like nearly 60/70% of all the tax taken in this country...So your post falls down on that straight away..

We are already at the point of diminishing returns for tax take...People are overtaxed in this country when you include stealth taxes and with the water charges and property tax its going to be more...

As for your 23k person in the ps...well there is sympathy for them any cuts should be done in a measured way...Having said that What about people in the private sector who were on under 30k who are now getting 184 Euros a week on the dole now and who face a cut..The fact is the average pay for the ps was 49k a year that was in 2010/2009 with cuts and with pay increments its probably not a kick in the arse off that...What I dont understand is how the lower paid in the ps are not kicking and screaming for those on say momre than 60% to be hit...not to mention those on PS pensions?

fliball123

sollar wrote: »

So public servants don't pay taxes then?? God thats great news I thought we had to pay taxes too!!

Where did I say that?

Nody

Degsy wrote: »

Banks,Estate Agents,Solicitors,Mortage Brokers,Construction Companies,Property Developers..all private sector concerns and they did a GREAT job of destroying the country.

Teh Private sector is no longer profitable because of short-term greed,lazyness and extreme incompetence..now they wan the people still working to pay for their mistakes..nice try but it wont fly.

Actually private sector is the only sector that is profitable by definition since they don't tax others for their money and have to actually compete for it (I know, it is a foreign concept in the PS to actually have to be competative). Btw do you wish to care to explain the size of HSE HR department? Or why we need to keep on directors of institutions now shut down because we can't make anyone in the PS redundant as a definition of being efficent ala PS style? Only curious you know.

sollar

fliball123 wrote: »

Where did I say that?

We = private sector in your post

waster81

Nody wrote: »

Good thing to know that no public sectors voted, had any unions threatening to strike unless they got salary increases, changed comparison group when shown that they were wrong or insisted on more bloat in the PS or told the government that all was fine.

See how fun it is to make up statements with out actually bothering with debating?

Idiot, your statement is no incomprehsible its beyond belief

If private sector employees had voted on mass for the opposition they could have altered the direction of government, but hey you didnt yee voted in ff and PD

But yee were happy to line you pockets with money, without care for the consequences

Degsy

fliball123 wrote: »

private sector who were on under 30k who are now getting 184 Euros a week on the dole now and who face a cut..?

Well maybe now's the time for them to get up off thier arses and start figuring out a way to start working..what are they waiting on?

Ah..i know..they're waiting on somebody to offer them a job on 50k a year sitting in front of a computer because they no longer want to get thier hands dirty,do anything like a good days work or show a bit of inititative and set something up themselves.

184 euro a week is waaay too much for doing nothing and the country cannot afford it.

Nody

waster81 wrote: »

Idiot, your statement is no incomprehsible its beyond belief

If private sector employees had voted on mass for the opposition they could have altered the direction of government, but hey you didnt yee voted in ff and PD

I was not the one making up a list saying it was all those others (in this case a hop podge list of private sector areas used by all parts of society) fault for the economy going down the drain and due to this my group is faultless. The point is, which you clearly failed to grasp, is that PS AND the private sector people who thought the gravy train of increasing house prices could only go up up up are all at fault.

There is no single group (possibly excluding politicans but they were all making similar promises at the time no matter their party affiliation) that was at fault, all sides ****ed up by voting in clowns and not asking for accountability in their elected people. As the saying goes, people get the people they deserve in a democracy...

fliball123

waster81 wrote: »

It was private sector workers that landed us in the sceanrio we are faced with

1. Private sector bankers pushing for increased de regulation
2. Private sector bankers lending out money without looking for relevant paper work
3. Private sector auditors who signed off on the accounts
4. Private sector property developers who pushed up price of development land
5. Private sector employees who were paid huge bonuses etc for short term "profits" they "made"
6. Private sector employees who now whinge and moan about their stupidity not to enter the public service
7. Private sector voters who kept voting in successive governments because they agreed with the tax policies etc
8 Private sector who have ensured through their idiocy that there are nor over 450000 on the register

Really on your points

Point 1 - What about the public sector regulator who didnt do there job. Same with the public sector gov who just wanted the cash
Point 2 - See above
Point 3 - There were public sector Auditors aswell (the financial regulator)
Point 4 - The public sector planning authority did a bang up job and the the public sector gov got greedy collecting their stamp duty
point 5 - Same goes with the public sector gov employees who fcuked off with millions in pensions same with Top level civil servants and even the bog standard gaurd who has an overly generous pension pot who the private sector has been subsidizing Also Bonuses were paid to most PS workers awell..Not to mention that pay increments are still going on in the public sector.
Point 6 - We were at near full employment at 2006 or so...When the sh1t hit the fan what did the public sector do..Put an employment embargo
Point 7 - The PS Vote aswell do they not?
Point 8 - Only a person immune to job cuts could come out with such an immoral statement..

hows about fcuking point 9 - The fact that anything (with the exception of the banks) the private sector pays out does not come out of the tax payers pocket...You my friend have your public sector sparkly glasses on

Degsy

Nody wrote: »

Actually private sector is the only sector that is profitable by definition since they don't tax others for their money and have to actually compete for it (I know, it is a foreign concept in the PS to actually have to be competative). Btw do you wish to care to explain the size of HSE HR department? Or why we need to keep on directors of institutions now shut down because we can't make anyone in the PS redundant as a definition of being efficent ala PS style? Only curious you know.

And you explain how we can justify a stupidly low corporation tax when multinationals are making a fortune here and exporting the profits?

fliball123

Degsy wrote: »

Banks,Estate Agents,Solicitors,Mortage Brokers,Construction Companies,Property Developers..all private sector concerns and they did a GREAT job of destroying the country.

Teh Private sector is no longer profitable because of short-term greed,lazyness and extreme incompetence..now they wan the people still working to pay for their mistakes..nice try but it wont fly.

Yeah they all go hand in hand with top level civil serants and gov who turned a blind eye and got the brown envelope not to mention the city planners, Planing permission offices who did a bang up job same goes with the financial regulator..

PS please for every perons in the private sector who fcuked us over there was a Public sector body supposed to be monitoring it..

Its like putting a diamond in the middle of O'connell street with gaurds around it..But the guards got tired , paid off or just couldnt give a ****e...It was only a matter of time before the diamond was taken

waster81

Nody wrote: »

I was not the one making up a list saying it was all those others (in this case a hop podge list of private sector areas used by all parts of society) fault for the economy going down the drain and due to this my group is faultless. The point is, which you clearly failed to grasp, is that PS AND the private sector people who thought the gravy train of increasing house prices could only go up up up are all at fault.

There is no single group (possibly excluding politicans but they were all making similar promises at the time no matter their party affiliation) that was at fault, all sides ****ed up by voting in clowns and not asking for accountability in their elected people. As the saying goes, people get the people they deserve in a democracy...

Which one of those private sector didnt have fault in the scenario we are facing.

I didnt mention a single group, I listed a lot more than one.

You clearly fail to understand the origins of the crisis, something I fear you never will

Degsy

fliball123 wrote: »

Point 6 - We were at near full employment at 2006 or so...When the sh1t hit the fan what did the public sector do..Put an employment embargo

The government placed a moratorium of recruitment...not the workers.

Why didnt you apply to join the PS before 2006 then?

Because the starting wages didnt suit anybody when there was "near full employment"..we used to get graduates asking did they get a company car with the job!!

People put their money on the wrong horse through greed and stupidity now spite demands that other people suffer...you'll get no sympathy from me anyway.

Nody

Degsy wrote: »

And you explain how we can justify a stupidly low corporation tax when multinationals are making a fortune here and exporting the profits?

I'm not the one claiming that was a good thing, you claimed that the PS was efficent and had the long term best in view for the country based on that the private sectors you listed were not. You know try to go to another area to dodge the original question.

This of course excludes the fact that low tax shifting goes around all around Europe (Switzerland is very common area for this now actually along with Netherlands etc.) and was a driving factor to get multinationals here in the first place (even if they did not pay a lot of tax).

fliball123

sollar wrote: »

We = private sector in your post

Your making an assumption there...Of course PS pay tax..I hope that clears it up for you