Freeze on cuts after Croke Park accord

fliball123

The_Thing wrote: »

What has the above got to do with no pay cuts for public-sector workers?

Well for one..If I was a union rep I would be trying to keep as much money in the coffers as I reckon by the end of 2012 there will be a public sector strike

jessiejam

Lumbo wrote: »

There's 300,000 people on the scratch who worked all the way through the Celtic tiger. I think most of them are feeling the pain more then we are. I don't buy into the "I'm lucky to have a job" bull****. But I'd rather a few pay cuts then no job at all.

True... some of whom worked at the same time as signing on, another contribution to the state of the economy.

It's not fair to continue to bash the public sector all of the time, knowing damn well there were, and still are, other factors that have contributed to the debt crisis. The PS has taken huge hits in the last few years and I am talking about the lower paid ones and am not talking about the HSE - (dont know anything about it really so unfair to comment good or bad).

Its usually some of the private sector workers that had the 2 cars in the drive, jeeps usually, the holiday home in bulgaria and multiple vacations that are now on here moaning, because they can no longer maintain that lifestyle for whatever reason and are looking for someone to blame... anyone acutally..... but usually the public sector because they don't want to blame themselves for being greedy and stupid over the years. None of my buddys had those kind of luxuries. They were laughed at for joining the PS in the first place, low wages, pen pushers etc..... ehhhh....doh!:P

I for one never had a big car just a run around to get me to the 120km round trip to work. I never had multiple trips abroad, most years i didn't go on any hols. Nor did I have a credit card or multiple loans. And all this time the bank was ringing my house telling me how i had been "pre-approved" for €€€€€€€ and all i had to do was sign...... :rolleyes:.... hindsight and all that!

But I saved what I could manage just in case. Maybe other people should have done the same.

fliball123

Degsy wrote: »

Well you know the "deal" we got on lower interest repayments?

Thats conditional on raising corporation tax..we never had a choice..just wait and see!

Furthemore any company who might want to remain here for whatever reason will recoup the difference by lowering wages...its all very simple..the public sector have had thier pay cut and now its the private sector's turn to feel some pain.

Sorry there was no concession for the lower interrest rates..The aggreement was the our government looked at Euro Tax harmonisation...Which could take 4 years to look at and at the end of it..all the gov has to say is sorry but thats not for us

So you feel that the private sector are not feeling pain...What about the 500k odd that were private sector who are now on the dole???

And yes the ps have had a 7% pay cut and they need another cut to bring them down to were we need them to be. Look Degsy I know another cut is a kick in the hole ... But we all have to take some of this..The people on the dole will have to take a cut...The private sector wages, numbers and hours are down as evident by our income tax take been down in successive years despite increasing our income tax..But people will be hit again...Dont take any post personal ...People are fighting their own corner and its only natural for you to do the same..But I will fight mine and people on the dole will fight theres

fliball123

Degsy wrote: »

You see the "Celtic Tiger" was a chimera..it was a time when cash in hand went cheek by jowl with corruption,inflated prices and unrealistic uses of credit.


Why didnt people make provision for any potential downturn?

Because it wasnt a popular idea..they lost the run of themselves and blew thier leveraged money on plasma screen TVs,"investment properties" in Bulgaria and poxy jeeps they used to bring the kids 100 yards down the road.

Working in the Public Sector was seen as a mug's game with no chance to work off the books or make a decent few bob to squander..should we feel guity because we didnt buy the whole "my kitchen is bigger than yours" bullshiit?

Sorry have you heard the bleeding heart guards, nurses and teachers who were crying saying they could no longer afford their holiday homes in bulgaria as thier wage was being cut...Remember the PS partied in the boom aswell with benchmarking, Increments for basically not dieing which seems to be the only criteria(still going on) and of course the ridiculous perks...Such as half an hour for one cashing a non existing cheque??? this non existant cheque is like your mindset there Degsy, imaginary

fliball123

jessiejam wrote: »

True... some of whom worked at the same time as signing on, another contribution to the state of the economy.

It's not fair to continue to bash the public sector all of the time, knowing damn well there were, and still are, other factors that have contributed to the debt crisis. The PS has taken huge hits in the last few years and I am talking about the lower paid ones and am not talking about the HSE - (dont know anything about it really so unfair to comment good or bad).

Its usually some of the private sector workers that had the 2 cars in the drive, jeeps usually, the holiday home in bulgaria and multiple vacations that are now on here moaning, because they can no longer maintain that lifestyle for whatever reason and are looking for someone to blame... anyone acutally..... but usually the public sector because they don't want to blame themselves for being greedy and stupid over the years. None of my buddys had those kind of luxuries. They were laughed at for joining the PS in the first place, low wages, pen pushers etc..... ehhhh....doh!:P

I for one never had a big car just a run around to get me to the 120km round trip to work. I never had multiple trips abroad, most years i didn't go on any hols. Nor did I have a credit card or multiple loans. And all this time the bank was ringing my house telling me how i had been "pre-approved" for €€€€€€€ and all i had to do was sign...... :rolleyes:.... hindsight and all that!

But I saved what I could manage just in case. Maybe other people should have done the same.

Why is it unfair..Until they are brought back into a size that is manageable people will continue to question where their taxes are going.

Also people here in the ps blindly refuse to look at reports from the CSO that state that on average the PS are paid more than the private sector..I have heard numerous teachers, guards going on about their 2nd homes aswell..Take a trip to any of the social welfare offices around 4ish or what ever time they finish I garentee you that the majority of the cars will be 08 and over..

So 300k want to keep their lifestyle and dont care about anyone else ... and there will be no sympathy for the lower paid in the PS as they should be kicking and screaming looking for cuts from the top down...I mean these cuts are coming...But they will row in behind the unions more out of fear I reckon....

The PS have a perception that we are all bankers?? I think the banks currently employ about 20k people (all the banks) so 20k out of 1.4 million are bankers..The rest are working for Multinationals, Farmers, Taxi men, Shop salesmen, Hairdressers the list goes on...There are estimated 750k people working within the local ecconomy and the majority of these had it hard during the Celtic Tiger and are now having it even harder..I am lucky I have a job not dependent on Ireland local economy..But for those who do its a hard world out there

jessiejam

Really

You think none of the PS workers have a partner/wife/husband that is or was a private sector employee that has been laid off or made redundant?

Surviving on one income of about €400 per week to run a home pay a mortgage and bills etc with 2 kids in tow? Partner not entitled to anything because they were self employed?

When the neighbours next door god love them were both made redundant, Given the bones of 100k in redundancy between them, but are getting the same amount on the dole, have a full medical card, 10 C car outside the door, mortgage interest supplement and household benifit package to boot.

Whats fair about that?!

bamboozle

jessiejam wrote: »

Really

You think none of the PS workers have a partner/wife/husband that is or was a private sector employee that has been laid off or made redundant?

Surviving on one income of about €400 per week to run a home pay a mortgage and bills etc with 2 kids in tow? Partner not entitled to anything because they were self employed?

When the neighbours next door god love them were both made redundant, Given the bones of 100k in redundancy between them, but are getting the same amount on the dole, have a full medical card, 10 C car outside the door, mortgage interest supplement and household benifit package to boot.

Whats fair about that?![/QUOTE]

would you like to swap situations with your neighbours?

if your answers no then you'll have to give the govt time to tidy up the mess Bertie and his ilk made of social welfare benefits in this country.

fliball123

jessiejam wrote: »

Really

You think none of the PS workers have a partner/wife/husband that is or was a private sector employee that has been laid off or made redundant?

Surviving on one income of about €400 per week to run a home pay a mortgage and bills etc with 2 kids in tow? Partner not entitled to anything because they were self employed?

When the neighbours next door god love them were both made redundant, Given the bones of 100k in redundancy between them, but are getting the same amount on the dole, have a full medical card, 10 C car outside the door, mortgage interest supplement and household benifit package to boot.

Whats fair about that?!

Well the dole does need reform aswell I dont think anyone on either private or public sector disagrees with you

jessiejam

bamboozle wrote: »

jessiejam wrote: »

Really

You think none of the PS workers have a partner/wife/husband that is or was a private sector employee that has been laid off or made redundant?

Surviving on one income of about €400 per week to run a home pay a mortgage and bills etc with 2 kids in tow? Partner not entitled to anything because they were self employed?

When the neighbours next door god love them were both made redundant, Given the bones of 100k in redundancy between them, but are getting the same amount on the dole, have a full medical card, 10 C car outside the door, mortgage interest supplement and household benifit package to boot.

Whats fair about that?![/QUOTE]

would you like to swap situations with your neighbours?

if your answers no then you'll have to give the govt time to tidy up the mess Bertie and his ilk made of social welfare benefits in this country.

The situation I quoted is not my situation but that of a friend of mine. So I can't really say
But can you honestly say bamboozle that a tidy up of the social welfare is that easy to do? The amount of fraud in the country as we know is huge. Where do you start?

jessiejam

fliball123 wrote: »

Well the dole does need reform aswell I dont think anyone on either private or public sector disagrees with you

I agree with you 100%. As I said in a previous post, a dole cut should not be on the cards for those activly seeking work or those who were made redundant in the last 3 years. Its the scroungers that lapped it up in the boom times that I have the issue with.

But again this is not the lower paid workers in the PS fault.

fliball123

jessiejam wrote: »

I agree with you 100%. As I said in a previous post, a dole cut should not be on the cards for those activly seeking work or those who were made redundant in the last 3 years. Its the scroungers that lapped it up in the boom times that I have the issue with.

But again this is not the lower paid workers in the PS fault.

There are very simple measures that the gov can do with regard to the dole...

1: make people sign on at least 3 times a week - Cuts down on people being able to work on the black market. It also stops people not living in the country claiming
2: ID cards for all people recieving the dole - Cuts out fraud as if you are not the person in the pic...you aint getting the cash
3: Make Mothers put the fathers name on the birth cert. If they dont they recieve only half the childrens allowanece..If they do..The gov should chase the father for the 140 Euros a month
4: People who have paid PRSI stamps should get full wage of what they were on for the first 6 months and then halved and continue to half till its down to say 150 Euros ...this 150 should be paid as 50 in cash and 100 in stamps that can be spent in and only Irish shops.
5: If a person does not take a job or course when offered..Dole should be halved and continuously halved each time they do not take an offer
6: Mothers should get Creches for free and rules above should be applied. No longer should motherhood be an occupation of choice. I am sick of young girls being looked after on my dime.
7: Dole queue needs to be harmonised with a jobs list.
8: People in the public sector not doing a lot..(I am looking at areas like Planning permission and other areas that are now near defunct) should be retrained and used to monitor people on the dole..IE people who are claiming follow for a week to see if they are working..Same with mothers who say they are living alone...If a partner is in the house for say 4 out of the 7 days and he is working they should be cut off...


The above would take money to sort but I reckon the amount saved would be well worth it

Degsy

fliball123 wrote: »

that on average the PS are paid more than the private sector..

Where are the private sector equivilent of Guards,Teachers and Firemen?

irishh_bob

Degsy wrote: »

You see the "Celtic Tiger" was a chimera..it was a time when cash in hand went cheek by jowl with corruption,inflated prices and unrealistic uses of credit.


Why didnt people make provision for any potential downturn?

Because it wasnt a popular idea..they lost the run of themselves and blew thier leveraged money on plasma screen TVs,"investment properties" in Bulgaria and poxy jeeps they used to bring the kids 100 yards down the road.

Working in the Public Sector was seen as a mug's game with no chance to work off the books or make a decent few bob to squander..should we feel guity because we didnt buy the whole "my kitchen is bigger than yours" bullshiit?

the ( union tutored ) line about how no one wanted a job in the public sector during the boom has been rubbished and exposed for the lie that it is long ago , you will have to do better than that in 2011 , wages in the public sector were ahead of wages in the private sector all through the celtic tiger years , the likes of a guard was earning on average 1200 per week up untill 2008 , most guys shovelling concrete werent doing any better than that and the vast majority of those are on the scrap heap now and with no pension

as for buying investment propertys , the likes of teachers ( and especially guards ) have always been to the forefront when it comes to buying investment propertys

bamboozle

Degsy wrote: »

Where are the private sector equivilent of Guards,Teachers and Firemen?

well for starters you could compare to the UK for their salaries of police, teachers and firemen...oh wait that wouldnt look too good for our guys.

irishh_bob

Degsy wrote: »

Where are the private sector equivilent of Guards,Teachers and Firemen?

red herring

bamboozle

jessiejam wrote: »

bamboozle wrote: »

The situation I quoted is not my situation but that of a friend of mine. So I can't really say
But can you honestly say bamboozle that a tidy up of the social welfare is that easy to do? The amount of fraud in the country as we know is huge. Where do you start?

where did i say a tidy up of social welfare would be easy to do?
i cleary said we needed to give the govt time to clear up the mess that is our welfare system.

fliball123

Degsy wrote: »

Where are the private sector equivilent of Guards,Teachers and Firemen?

Whats your point..Have you look at what Guards, teachers and Firemen get paid in other Eurozone countries?

Guards - Secuirty Gaurds
Teachers - Montasory workers, company Trainers
Firemen - Ok Nothing here

irishh_bob

bamboozle wrote: »

well for starters you could compare to the UK for their salaries of police, teachers and firemen...oh wait that wouldnt look too good for our guys.

awaits for the standard reply of cost of living difference , thing is , the cost off living is the same for the private sector as it is for the public sector , besdies , from what ive seen , the uk isnt any less expensive than ireland

nursextreme

bamboozle wrote: »

do you actually think we need more people working in the public service???? is 16.5 billions spent a year not enough????

perhaps the thousands of 'admin' staff working in the HSE, many pointless quango and other state departments who are doing SFA could be reallocated to areas where additional staff is needed or encourage to take early retirement, God forbid the unions actually saw the logic of something like this, but then again would these staff actually want to be switched somewhere where they'd have to do a bit of work?

You are missing my point on this issue, what I am suggesting is that it is crazy to pay retired staff or regular staff overtime while you pay the dole to the person who should be employed in that post. That's money wasted on 3 fronts.
Agree with you on the second part, main problem we have is that these admin staff are no real use when it comes to filling the actual post that need to be filled, leading to more spending on overtime etc.

bamboozle

nursextreme wrote: »

You are missing my point on this issue, what I am suggesting is that it is crazy to pay retired staff or regular staff overtime while you pay the dole to the person who should be employed in that post. That's money wasted on 3 fronts.
Agree with you on the second part, main problem we have is that these admin staff are no real use when it comes to filling the actual post that need to be filled, leading to more spending on overtime etc.

is there not a surplus of middle management in the HSE and many other departments? surely some of these have the skill sets to transfer into most other areas (apart from the obvious specialist ones like Doctors, nurses etc and if not then why are they in mgt roles) if there are still issues then why not retrain existing staff.
A very simple example would be transferring some excess HR admin & hr staff into the dept of social protection with a view to further targeting SW fraud.

hiring new staff, thus exposing the state coffers to additional salaries and pension entitlements at a time when we are committed to reducing PS staff numbers & costs is a non runner in all but the extreme specialist cases.

RobbieTheRobber

fliball123 wrote: »

Whats your point..Have you look at what Guards, teachers and Firemen get paid in other Eurozone countries?

Guards - Secuirty Gaurds
Teachers - Montasory workers, company Trainers
Firemen - Ok Nothing here

Come on now Fliball you will have to do better than that.
This is just lauaghable and not likely to get people to repond in outrage the way you want.

The garda are just security guards :D

irishh_bob wrote: »

awaits for the standard reply of cost of living difference , thing is , the cost off living is the same for the private sector as it is for the public sector , besdies , from what ive seen , the uk isnt any less expensive than ireland

Irish bob if we really wanted to show cost of living difference between here and the UK one could easily as a start, point to the price difference between tesco north and south of the border.

ardmacha

main problem we have is that these admin staff are no real use

I couldn't agree more.

fliball123

RobbieTheRobber wrote: »

Come on now Fliball you will have to do better than that.
This is just lauaghable and not likely to get people to repond in outrage the way you want.

The garda are just security guards :D





Irish bob if we really wanted to show cost of living difference between here and the UK one could easily as a start point to the price difference between tesco north and south of the border.

Hows the form Robbie I was waiting for you to get on here haha good man...Robbie is some man for one man he does 20 different jobs in the P.S

RobbieTheRobber

bamboozle wrote: »

is there not a surplus of middle management in the HSE and many other departments? surely some of these have the skill sets to transfer into most other areas (apart from the obvious specialist ones like Doctors, nurses etc and if not then why are they in mgt roles) if there are still issues then why not retrain existing staff.
A very simple example would be transferring some excess HR admin & hr staff into the dept of social protection with a view to further targeting SW fraud.

hiring new staff, thus exposing the state coffers to additional salaries and pension entitlements at a time when we are committed to reducing PS staff numbers & costs is a non runner in all but the extreme specialist cases.

Department of social protection has gotten staff from other civil service sections and numbers have increased overall to deal with increases in workload.

Part of the CPA was an agreement to streamline public services to allow for the movement you are suggesting but its not just as easy as right move all these right now.

Some planning has to go into these things.

jessiejam

bamboozle wrote: »

is there not a surplus of middle management in the HSE and many other departments? surely some of these have the skill sets to transfer into most other areas (apart from the obvious specialist ones like Doctors, nurses etc and if not then why are they in mgt roles) if there are still issues then why not retrain existing staff.
A very simple example would be transferring some excess HR admin & hr staff into the dept of social protection with a view to further targeting SW fraud.

hiring new staff, thus exposing the state coffers to additional salaries and pension entitlements at a time when we are committed to reducing PS staff numbers & costs is a non runner in all but the extreme specialist cases.

Part of the CPA is redeployment across departments and that should be happening shortly. But there is a difference between the Public Sector and the Civil Service. DSP is Civil and the HSE is Public. I'm not sure if redeployment can occur between both.

AFAIK there will be a huge amount of staff transferring from less busy depts into the likes of SW. Also there is talks that Gardai that are on desk duties monday to friday will be put back out on the beat and clerical civil servants will be doing their desk duties.

So there is change happening albeit a bit late!

Degsy

fliball123 wrote: »

?

Guards - Secuirty Gaurds
Teachers - Montasory workers, company Trainers
Firemen - Ok Nothing here

Lol!

fliball123

Degsy wrote: »

Lol!

But whats your point Degsy have you compared the wage of your list with our Euro Neighbours...come back to me when you have

RobbieTheRobber

fliball123 wrote: »

But whats your point Degsy have you compared the wage of your list with our Euro Neighbours...come back to me when you have

Well you have eh, otherwise you wouldnt make comments like this i guess.

So why dont you save me and degsy the time and post them!

fliball123

RobbieTheRobber wrote: »

Well you have eh, otherwise you wouldnt make comments like this i guess.

So why dont you save me and degsy the time and post them!

Now now robbie let the posters do there own work ... Anyway its good to hear from my auld sparing partner hows things in the PS do you see much change??

Degsy

fliball123 wrote: »

But whats your point Degsy have you compared the wage of your list with our Euro Neighbours...come back to me when you have

And you compare the price of

Food

Drink

petrol

Housing

Rent

Cars

Healthcare

Consumer Goods

Clothing

With our Euro neighbours and see who gets the better deal.

And you know why everything here is so expensive?? Because of profiteering and greed in teh PRIVATE sector..no wonder half the businesses in this country are going down teh tubes.

irishh_bob

Degsy wrote: »

And you compare the price of

Food

Drink

petrol

Housing

Rent

Cars

Healthcare

Consumer Goods

Clothing

With our Euro neighbours and see who gets the better deal.

And you know why everything here is so expensive?? Because of profiteering and greed in teh PRIVATE sector..no wonder half the businesses in this country are going down teh tubes.

alot of businesses are going to the wall due to the huge cost of local authority rates which have actually risen in the past five years , the one sector of the economy which has seen a rise in cost is the state sector

nesf

fliball123 wrote: »

Now now robbie let the posters do there own work ... Anyway its good to hear from my auld sparing partner hows things in the PS do you see much change??

Play the ball, not the man ffs. I've already had to ban one person in this thread over this kind of crap.

Degsy

irishh_bob wrote: »

alot of businesses are going to the wall due to the huge cost of local authority rates which have actually risen in the past five years , the one sector of the economy which has seen a rise in cost is the state sector

Authority rates to pay for services..who else will clean the streets and mop up the vomit?

Maybe you think roads sweep tehmselves or that the water reaches your taps through magic?

ardmacha

the one sector of the economy which has seen a rise in cost is the state sector

Not so, the state sector has seen a decline in costs. What there has been is an increase in charges, largely caused by the need to make up the contribution of the thousands of people laid off by the private sector. Until the private sector gets off its rear end and employs these people providing something people want then we will have problems.

fliball123

Degsy wrote: »

And you compare the price of

Food

Drink

petrol

Housing

Rent

Cars

Healthcare

Consumer Goods

Clothing

With our Euro neighbours and see who gets the better deal.

And you know why everything here is so expensive?? Because of profiteering and greed in teh PRIVATE sector..no wonder half the businesses in this country are going down teh tubes.

Food - Aldi/Lidl is just as cheap
Drink - have you been out in the pub over the last while if you have you have too much cash. The majority of the country are staying in for a few tins. So not much more expensive than the UK but it is. I give you that.
Petrol - Is high in the UK too. But because we are borrowing 18billion to pay for social welfare and your wages the gov get about 60 cent for every Euro spent on Petrol..Same with the drink
Housing - eh one word for that CRASH
Rent - Coming down continuously and will drop further when Burton pulls the plug on rent allowence
Cars - Once again a slight difference..But there are very few people buying them
Healthcare - yeah prices are high...but these are once off costs..
Consumer goods - see aldi Lidl above
Clothing - Dunnes and Tescos do ranges that are not a kick in the B0ll0x off the UK

So the majority of items you listed here is up and above the UK because of tax being imposed on them, why is this..Could it have something to do with the fact that we are borrowing 18billion to keep the lights on. Your argument just failed. You have just proved a valid point on the side of cutting your wage. Less wages for the ps means we dont have to tax the fcuk out of every day items?

Lumbo

There are too many sectors of society who don't pay rates, including Churches & Farmers. The Government has failed to properly provide for Local Government funding and small businees has ended up footing the bill.

fliball123

nesf wrote: »

Play the ball, not the man ffs. I've already had to ban one person in this thread over this kind of crap.

I was asking him a genuine question..he has not been on in a while..???

irishh_bob

Degsy wrote: »

Authority rates to pay for services..who else will clean the streets and mop up the vomit?

Maybe you think roads sweep tehmselves or that the water reaches your taps through magic?

so you think the local authority budget should be shielded from the rescession

Jaysoose

waster81 wrote: »

It was private sector workers that landed us in the sceanrio we are faced with

1. Private sector bankers pushing for increased de regulation
2. Private sector bankers lending out money without looking for relevant paper work
3. Private sector auditors who signed off on the accounts
4. Private sector property developers who pushed up price of development land
5. Private sector employees who were paid huge bonuses etc for short term "profits" they "made"
6. Private sector employees who now whinge and moan about their stupidity not to enter the public service
7. Private sector voters who kept voting in successive governments because they agreed with the tax policies etc
8 Private sector who have ensured through their idiocy that there are nor over 450000 on the register

PUT DOWN THE INTERNET, YOU ARE EMBARRASSING YOURSELF

RobbieTheRobber

fliball123 wrote: »

Food - Aldi/Lidl is just as cheap
Drink - have you been out in the pub over the last while if you have you have too much cash. The majority of the country are staying in for a few tins. So not much more expensive than the UK but it is. I give you that.
Petrol - Is high in the UK too. But because we are borrowing 18billion to pay for social welfare and your wages the gov get about 60 cent for every Euro spent on Petrol..Same with the drink
Housing - eh one word for that CRASH
Rent - Coming down continuously and will drop further when Burton pulls the plug on rent allowence
Cars - Once again a slight difference..But there are very few people buying them
Healthcare - yeah prices are high...but these are once off costs..
Consumer goods - see aldi Lidl above
Clothing - Dunnes and Tescos do ranges that are not a kick in the B0ll0x off the UK

So the majority of items you listed here is up and above the UK because of tax being imposed on them, why is this..Could it have something to do with the fact that we are borrowing 18billion to keep the lights on. Your argument just failed. You have just proved a valid point on the side of cutting your wage. Less wages for the ps means we dont have to tax the fcuk out of every day items?

Food items are not as cheap do a price comparision on Tesco north and south of the border. This has very little to do with taxes!

Anyway there is nothing of substance in your post, in your opinion of all this is true and as you have presented no facts there is nothing to argue against.

However my opinion is you are wrong!

fliball123

RobbieTheRobber wrote: »

Food items are not as cheap do a price comparision on Tesco north and south of the border. This has very little to do with taxes!

Anyway there is nothing of substance in your post, in your opinion of all this is true and as you have presented no facts there is nothing to argue against.

However my opinion is you are wrong!

Aggreed but in comparison to aldi and lidl with the north there is little or no difference. Alcohol, the cost of petrol and cars , taxes do have a bearing...How is there nothing of substance in my post. 60% of what we pay in petrol goest to tax. A high % of what we pay for alcohol also goes on tax. Same with cars and you think there is nothing to see as its all going to pay my wage...Pull the other one Robbie..You should tell people like ther person who posted to think before they put up random items of how Ireland is more expensive when out of the list Medical care is the only one that with taking tax into account actually is. So this does have a bearing when comparing the public sector of both countries

jessiejam

fliball123 wrote: »

Aggreed but in comparison to aldi and lidl with the north there is little or no difference. Alcohol, the cost of petrol and cars , taxes do have a bearing...How is there nothing of substance in my post. 60% of what we pay in petrol goest to tax. A high % of what we pay for alcohol also goes on tax. Same with cars and you think there is nothing to see as its all going to pay my wage...Pull the other one Robbie..You should tell people like ther person who posted to think before they put up random items of how Ireland is more expensive when out of the list Medical care is the only one that with taking tax into account actually is. So this does have a bearing when comparing the public sector of both countries

It also pays the wages of those who tend to your medical needs, to pay your social welfare, to put out fires, to arrest criminals etc.

fliball123

jessiejam wrote: »

It also pays the wages of those who tend to your medical needs, to pay your social welfare, to put out fires, to arrest criminals etc.

And they get paid very handsomely in my opinion..The point being that things such as petrol, Cars, Alcohol, smokes..Things that a previous PS worker stated that these all cost more in Ireland than the UK..He also mentioned food, medical care, clothes..

Which is true they do all cost more..But when you take the tax that are put on the likes of cars, clothes, Alcohol, Petrol..We are paying the same for these goods...Food in lidl/aldi is probably less than the uk..The point being that when you compare the PS pay in Ireland to the UK , the irish get paid a hell of a lot more, to which the usual argument is that the cost of living is higher here...So see the above the reason why things are so high is because of tax..and we are taxed so much because we are paying too much out on social welfare and PS pay and pensions...and once again the circle starts

nesf

fliball123 wrote: »

I was asking him a genuine question..he has not been on in a while..???

Sorry, I read it differently.

jessiejam

fliball123 wrote: »

And they get paid very handsomely in my opinion..The point being that things such as petrol, Cars, Alcohol, smokes..Things that a previous PS worker stated that these all cost more in Ireland than the UK..He also mentioned food, medical care, clothes..

Which is true they do all cost more..But when you take the tax that are put on the likes of cars, clothes, Alcohol, Petrol..We are paying the same for these goods...Food in lidl/aldi is probably less than the uk..The point being that when you compare the PS pay in Ireland to the UK , the irish get paid a hell of a lot more, to which the usual argument is that the cost of living is higher here...So see the above the reason why things are so high is because of tax..and we are taxed so much because we are paying too much out on social welfare and PS pay and pensions...and once again the circle starts

I take your point, but there will always be PS pay no matter what you do. There has to be public services. You could also bring into the equation the amount of tax breaks there are out there and the loopholes that allow the very rich to escape paying anything at all.

We are taxed too much cause the previous government f*ked up and failed to put away some of the millions they were getting during the boom for a rainy day and instead blew it on rewarding their chums with even more tax breaks!

fliball123

jessiejam wrote: »

I take your point, but there will always be PS pay no matter what you do. There has to be public services. You could also bring into the equation the amount of tax breaks there are out there and the loopholes that allow the very rich to escape paying anything at all.

We are taxed too much cause the previous government f*ked up and failed to put away some of the millions they were getting during the boom for a rainy day and instead blew it on rewarding their chums with even more tax breaks!

I am not disputing that we need public services.....The above tax breaks are being removed.....and I aggree with your sentiments about the gov fcuking up...but the fact remains we are still over spending by 18 billion...Is it far that a large proportion of what we spend (PS pay and pensions) are off the table when it comes to trying to reduce this deficit.. I would also be worried as the gov has also said no more income tax raises or cuts in the dole..Where the feck are they going to get this money from

Riskymove

fliball123 wrote: »

Is it far that a large proportion of what we spend (PS pay and pensions) are off the table when it comes to trying to reduce this deficit.. I would also be worried as the gov has also said no more income tax raises or cuts in the dole..Where the feck are they going to get this money from

you and many others are just not looking at it in enough detail

just because there will be no core pay cut or mandatory redundancies, does not mean that there will not be further reducitions in the PS pay and pensions bill

just because the income tax rates do not rise does not mean you wont pay more tax

Just because SW rates dont change does not mean people wont lose welfare

jessiejam

fliball123 wrote: »

I am not disputing that we need public services.....The above tax breaks are being removed.....and I aggree with your sentiments about the gov fcuking up...but the fact remains we are still over spending by 18 billion...Is it far that a large proportion of what we spend (PS pay and pensions) are off the table when it comes to trying to reduce this deficit.. I would also be worried as the gov has also said no more income tax raises or cuts in the dole..Where the feck are they going to get this money from

From the money tree sure :rolleyes:... where else??:P

fliball123

Riskymove wrote: »

you and many others are just not looking at it in enough detail

just because there will be no core pay cut or mandatory redundancies, does not mean that there will not be further reducitions in the PS pay and pensions bill

just because the income tax rates do not rise does not mean you wont pay more tax

Just because SW rates dont change does not mean people wont lose welfare

ahh I know that there will be cuts to services ..the PS are untouchable at present with the terms and conditions and I reckon the loophole with tax will be the USC being raised..As for Dole?? I think there will be hopefull a cutdown in fraud...but evern if there are further measures I think that the 18billion gap will probably comedown to 15 or so?? Not sure Proof is in the pudding as they say..My guess is that all bets will be off and we will get a big tax increase...and a cut in both social welfare and ps pay and pensions..thata only an opinion before a get pitchforked

Riskymove

fliball123 wrote: »

..the PS are untouchable at present with the terms and conditions

The PS pay bill is not untouchable

for example the pension levy would not have been against the terms of the CPA

niether are reductions in allowances etc

as you say, there is also tax changes

but evern if there are further measures I think that the 18billion gap will probably comedown to 15 or so??

the plan is for a reduction of 3.6bn