Freeze on cuts after Croke Park accord

RobbieTheRobber

fliball123 wrote: »

Whats your point..Have you look at what Guards, teachers and Firemen get paid in other Eurozone countries?

Guards - Secuirty Gaurds
Teachers - Montasory workers, company Trainers
Firemen - Ok Nothing here

Come on now Fliball you will have to do better than that.
This is just lauaghable and not likely to get people to repond in outrage the way you want.

The garda are just security guards :D

irishh_bob wrote: »

awaits for the standard reply of cost of living difference , thing is , the cost off living is the same for the private sector as it is for the public sector , besdies , from what ive seen , the uk isnt any less expensive than ireland

Irish bob if we really wanted to show cost of living difference between here and the UK one could easily as a start, point to the price difference between tesco north and south of the border.

ardmacha

main problem we have is that these admin staff are no real use

I couldn't agree more.

fliball123

RobbieTheRobber wrote: »

Come on now Fliball you will have to do better than that.
This is just lauaghable and not likely to get people to repond in outrage the way you want.

The garda are just security guards :D





Irish bob if we really wanted to show cost of living difference between here and the UK one could easily as a start point to the price difference between tesco north and south of the border.

Hows the form Robbie I was waiting for you to get on here haha good man...Robbie is some man for one man he does 20 different jobs in the P.S

RobbieTheRobber

bamboozle wrote: »

is there not a surplus of middle management in the HSE and many other departments? surely some of these have the skill sets to transfer into most other areas (apart from the obvious specialist ones like Doctors, nurses etc and if not then why are they in mgt roles) if there are still issues then why not retrain existing staff.
A very simple example would be transferring some excess HR admin & hr staff into the dept of social protection with a view to further targeting SW fraud.

hiring new staff, thus exposing the state coffers to additional salaries and pension entitlements at a time when we are committed to reducing PS staff numbers & costs is a non runner in all but the extreme specialist cases.

Department of social protection has gotten staff from other civil service sections and numbers have increased overall to deal with increases in workload.

Part of the CPA was an agreement to streamline public services to allow for the movement you are suggesting but its not just as easy as right move all these right now.

Some planning has to go into these things.

jessiejam

bamboozle wrote: »

is there not a surplus of middle management in the HSE and many other departments? surely some of these have the skill sets to transfer into most other areas (apart from the obvious specialist ones like Doctors, nurses etc and if not then why are they in mgt roles) if there are still issues then why not retrain existing staff.
A very simple example would be transferring some excess HR admin & hr staff into the dept of social protection with a view to further targeting SW fraud.

hiring new staff, thus exposing the state coffers to additional salaries and pension entitlements at a time when we are committed to reducing PS staff numbers & costs is a non runner in all but the extreme specialist cases.

Part of the CPA is redeployment across departments and that should be happening shortly. But there is a difference between the Public Sector and the Civil Service. DSP is Civil and the HSE is Public. I'm not sure if redeployment can occur between both.

AFAIK there will be a huge amount of staff transferring from less busy depts into the likes of SW. Also there is talks that Gardai that are on desk duties monday to friday will be put back out on the beat and clerical civil servants will be doing their desk duties.

So there is change happening albeit a bit late!

Degsy

fliball123 wrote: »

?

Guards - Secuirty Gaurds
Teachers - Montasory workers, company Trainers
Firemen - Ok Nothing here

Lol!

fliball123

Degsy wrote: »

Lol!

But whats your point Degsy have you compared the wage of your list with our Euro Neighbours...come back to me when you have

RobbieTheRobber

fliball123 wrote: »

But whats your point Degsy have you compared the wage of your list with our Euro Neighbours...come back to me when you have

Well you have eh, otherwise you wouldnt make comments like this i guess.

So why dont you save me and degsy the time and post them!

fliball123

RobbieTheRobber wrote: »

Well you have eh, otherwise you wouldnt make comments like this i guess.

So why dont you save me and degsy the time and post them!

Now now robbie let the posters do there own work ... Anyway its good to hear from my auld sparing partner hows things in the PS do you see much change??

Degsy

fliball123 wrote: »

But whats your point Degsy have you compared the wage of your list with our Euro Neighbours...come back to me when you have

And you compare the price of

Food

Drink

petrol

Housing

Rent

Cars

Healthcare

Consumer Goods

Clothing

With our Euro neighbours and see who gets the better deal.

And you know why everything here is so expensive?? Because of profiteering and greed in teh PRIVATE sector..no wonder half the businesses in this country are going down teh tubes.

irishh_bob

Degsy wrote: »

And you compare the price of

Food

Drink

petrol

Housing

Rent

Cars

Healthcare

Consumer Goods

Clothing

With our Euro neighbours and see who gets the better deal.

And you know why everything here is so expensive?? Because of profiteering and greed in teh PRIVATE sector..no wonder half the businesses in this country are going down teh tubes.

alot of businesses are going to the wall due to the huge cost of local authority rates which have actually risen in the past five years , the one sector of the economy which has seen a rise in cost is the state sector

nesf

fliball123 wrote: »

Now now robbie let the posters do there own work ... Anyway its good to hear from my auld sparing partner hows things in the PS do you see much change??

Play the ball, not the man ffs. I've already had to ban one person in this thread over this kind of crap.

Degsy

irishh_bob wrote: »

alot of businesses are going to the wall due to the huge cost of local authority rates which have actually risen in the past five years , the one sector of the economy which has seen a rise in cost is the state sector

Authority rates to pay for services..who else will clean the streets and mop up the vomit?

Maybe you think roads sweep tehmselves or that the water reaches your taps through magic?

ardmacha

the one sector of the economy which has seen a rise in cost is the state sector

Not so, the state sector has seen a decline in costs. What there has been is an increase in charges, largely caused by the need to make up the contribution of the thousands of people laid off by the private sector. Until the private sector gets off its rear end and employs these people providing something people want then we will have problems.

fliball123

Degsy wrote: »

And you compare the price of

Food

Drink

petrol

Housing

Rent

Cars

Healthcare

Consumer Goods

Clothing

With our Euro neighbours and see who gets the better deal.

And you know why everything here is so expensive?? Because of profiteering and greed in teh PRIVATE sector..no wonder half the businesses in this country are going down teh tubes.

Food - Aldi/Lidl is just as cheap
Drink - have you been out in the pub over the last while if you have you have too much cash. The majority of the country are staying in for a few tins. So not much more expensive than the UK but it is. I give you that.
Petrol - Is high in the UK too. But because we are borrowing 18billion to pay for social welfare and your wages the gov get about 60 cent for every Euro spent on Petrol..Same with the drink
Housing - eh one word for that CRASH
Rent - Coming down continuously and will drop further when Burton pulls the plug on rent allowence
Cars - Once again a slight difference..But there are very few people buying them
Healthcare - yeah prices are high...but these are once off costs..
Consumer goods - see aldi Lidl above
Clothing - Dunnes and Tescos do ranges that are not a kick in the B0ll0x off the UK

So the majority of items you listed here is up and above the UK because of tax being imposed on them, why is this..Could it have something to do with the fact that we are borrowing 18billion to keep the lights on. Your argument just failed. You have just proved a valid point on the side of cutting your wage. Less wages for the ps means we dont have to tax the fcuk out of every day items?

Lumbo

There are too many sectors of society who don't pay rates, including Churches & Farmers. The Government has failed to properly provide for Local Government funding and small businees has ended up footing the bill.

fliball123

nesf wrote: »

Play the ball, not the man ffs. I've already had to ban one person in this thread over this kind of crap.

I was asking him a genuine question..he has not been on in a while..???

irishh_bob

Degsy wrote: »

Authority rates to pay for services..who else will clean the streets and mop up the vomit?

Maybe you think roads sweep tehmselves or that the water reaches your taps through magic?

so you think the local authority budget should be shielded from the rescession

Jaysoose

waster81 wrote: »

It was private sector workers that landed us in the sceanrio we are faced with

1. Private sector bankers pushing for increased de regulation
2. Private sector bankers lending out money without looking for relevant paper work
3. Private sector auditors who signed off on the accounts
4. Private sector property developers who pushed up price of development land
5. Private sector employees who were paid huge bonuses etc for short term "profits" they "made"
6. Private sector employees who now whinge and moan about their stupidity not to enter the public service
7. Private sector voters who kept voting in successive governments because they agreed with the tax policies etc
8 Private sector who have ensured through their idiocy that there are nor over 450000 on the register

PUT DOWN THE INTERNET, YOU ARE EMBARRASSING YOURSELF

RobbieTheRobber

fliball123 wrote: »

Food - Aldi/Lidl is just as cheap
Drink - have you been out in the pub over the last while if you have you have too much cash. The majority of the country are staying in for a few tins. So not much more expensive than the UK but it is. I give you that.
Petrol - Is high in the UK too. But because we are borrowing 18billion to pay for social welfare and your wages the gov get about 60 cent for every Euro spent on Petrol..Same with the drink
Housing - eh one word for that CRASH
Rent - Coming down continuously and will drop further when Burton pulls the plug on rent allowence
Cars - Once again a slight difference..But there are very few people buying them
Healthcare - yeah prices are high...but these are once off costs..
Consumer goods - see aldi Lidl above
Clothing - Dunnes and Tescos do ranges that are not a kick in the B0ll0x off the UK

So the majority of items you listed here is up and above the UK because of tax being imposed on them, why is this..Could it have something to do with the fact that we are borrowing 18billion to keep the lights on. Your argument just failed. You have just proved a valid point on the side of cutting your wage. Less wages for the ps means we dont have to tax the fcuk out of every day items?

Food items are not as cheap do a price comparision on Tesco north and south of the border. This has very little to do with taxes!

Anyway there is nothing of substance in your post, in your opinion of all this is true and as you have presented no facts there is nothing to argue against.

However my opinion is you are wrong!

fliball123

RobbieTheRobber wrote: »

Food items are not as cheap do a price comparision on Tesco north and south of the border. This has very little to do with taxes!

Anyway there is nothing of substance in your post, in your opinion of all this is true and as you have presented no facts there is nothing to argue against.

However my opinion is you are wrong!

Aggreed but in comparison to aldi and lidl with the north there is little or no difference. Alcohol, the cost of petrol and cars , taxes do have a bearing...How is there nothing of substance in my post. 60% of what we pay in petrol goest to tax. A high % of what we pay for alcohol also goes on tax. Same with cars and you think there is nothing to see as its all going to pay my wage...Pull the other one Robbie..You should tell people like ther person who posted to think before they put up random items of how Ireland is more expensive when out of the list Medical care is the only one that with taking tax into account actually is. So this does have a bearing when comparing the public sector of both countries

jessiejam

fliball123 wrote: »

Aggreed but in comparison to aldi and lidl with the north there is little or no difference. Alcohol, the cost of petrol and cars , taxes do have a bearing...How is there nothing of substance in my post. 60% of what we pay in petrol goest to tax. A high % of what we pay for alcohol also goes on tax. Same with cars and you think there is nothing to see as its all going to pay my wage...Pull the other one Robbie..You should tell people like ther person who posted to think before they put up random items of how Ireland is more expensive when out of the list Medical care is the only one that with taking tax into account actually is. So this does have a bearing when comparing the public sector of both countries

It also pays the wages of those who tend to your medical needs, to pay your social welfare, to put out fires, to arrest criminals etc.

fliball123

jessiejam wrote: »

It also pays the wages of those who tend to your medical needs, to pay your social welfare, to put out fires, to arrest criminals etc.

And they get paid very handsomely in my opinion..The point being that things such as petrol, Cars, Alcohol, smokes..Things that a previous PS worker stated that these all cost more in Ireland than the UK..He also mentioned food, medical care, clothes..

Which is true they do all cost more..But when you take the tax that are put on the likes of cars, clothes, Alcohol, Petrol..We are paying the same for these goods...Food in lidl/aldi is probably less than the uk..The point being that when you compare the PS pay in Ireland to the UK , the irish get paid a hell of a lot more, to which the usual argument is that the cost of living is higher here...So see the above the reason why things are so high is because of tax..and we are taxed so much because we are paying too much out on social welfare and PS pay and pensions...and once again the circle starts

nesf

fliball123 wrote: »

I was asking him a genuine question..he has not been on in a while..???

Sorry, I read it differently.

jessiejam

fliball123 wrote: »

And they get paid very handsomely in my opinion..The point being that things such as petrol, Cars, Alcohol, smokes..Things that a previous PS worker stated that these all cost more in Ireland than the UK..He also mentioned food, medical care, clothes..

Which is true they do all cost more..But when you take the tax that are put on the likes of cars, clothes, Alcohol, Petrol..We are paying the same for these goods...Food in lidl/aldi is probably less than the uk..The point being that when you compare the PS pay in Ireland to the UK , the irish get paid a hell of a lot more, to which the usual argument is that the cost of living is higher here...So see the above the reason why things are so high is because of tax..and we are taxed so much because we are paying too much out on social welfare and PS pay and pensions...and once again the circle starts

I take your point, but there will always be PS pay no matter what you do. There has to be public services. You could also bring into the equation the amount of tax breaks there are out there and the loopholes that allow the very rich to escape paying anything at all.

We are taxed too much cause the previous government f*ked up and failed to put away some of the millions they were getting during the boom for a rainy day and instead blew it on rewarding their chums with even more tax breaks!

fliball123

jessiejam wrote: »

I take your point, but there will always be PS pay no matter what you do. There has to be public services. You could also bring into the equation the amount of tax breaks there are out there and the loopholes that allow the very rich to escape paying anything at all.

We are taxed too much cause the previous government f*ked up and failed to put away some of the millions they were getting during the boom for a rainy day and instead blew it on rewarding their chums with even more tax breaks!

I am not disputing that we need public services.....The above tax breaks are being removed.....and I aggree with your sentiments about the gov fcuking up...but the fact remains we are still over spending by 18 billion...Is it far that a large proportion of what we spend (PS pay and pensions) are off the table when it comes to trying to reduce this deficit.. I would also be worried as the gov has also said no more income tax raises or cuts in the dole..Where the feck are they going to get this money from

Riskymove

fliball123 wrote: »

Is it far that a large proportion of what we spend (PS pay and pensions) are off the table when it comes to trying to reduce this deficit.. I would also be worried as the gov has also said no more income tax raises or cuts in the dole..Where the feck are they going to get this money from

you and many others are just not looking at it in enough detail

just because there will be no core pay cut or mandatory redundancies, does not mean that there will not be further reducitions in the PS pay and pensions bill

just because the income tax rates do not rise does not mean you wont pay more tax

Just because SW rates dont change does not mean people wont lose welfare

jessiejam

fliball123 wrote: »

I am not disputing that we need public services.....The above tax breaks are being removed.....and I aggree with your sentiments about the gov fcuking up...but the fact remains we are still over spending by 18 billion...Is it far that a large proportion of what we spend (PS pay and pensions) are off the table when it comes to trying to reduce this deficit.. I would also be worried as the gov has also said no more income tax raises or cuts in the dole..Where the feck are they going to get this money from

From the money tree sure :rolleyes:... where else??:P

fliball123

Riskymove wrote: »

you and many others are just not looking at it in enough detail

just because there will be no core pay cut or mandatory redundancies, does not mean that there will not be further reducitions in the PS pay and pensions bill

just because the income tax rates do not rise does not mean you wont pay more tax

Just because SW rates dont change does not mean people wont lose welfare

ahh I know that there will be cuts to services ..the PS are untouchable at present with the terms and conditions and I reckon the loophole with tax will be the USC being raised..As for Dole?? I think there will be hopefull a cutdown in fraud...but evern if there are further measures I think that the 18billion gap will probably comedown to 15 or so?? Not sure Proof is in the pudding as they say..My guess is that all bets will be off and we will get a big tax increase...and a cut in both social welfare and ps pay and pensions..thata only an opinion before a get pitchforked

Riskymove

fliball123 wrote: »

..the PS are untouchable at present with the terms and conditions

The PS pay bill is not untouchable

for example the pension levy would not have been against the terms of the CPA

niether are reductions in allowances etc

as you say, there is also tax changes

but evern if there are further measures I think that the 18billion gap will probably comedown to 15 or so??

the plan is for a reduction of 3.6bn