Tractor becoming very complicated?

13spanner

Does anyone else think tractors are getting very complicated? Specifically in how the gears are layed out? Now don't get me wrong, there's nothing like the comfort of an air seat and a left hand shuttle. But after bringing our neighbours dyna-6 Massey for a run (hence the video link), I can't help but wonder have things gone a bit too technical. What do ye think?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XikkE51Plmk

Nobbies

sure they have.many small garages around the country which where onece able too repair ur basic tractor no longer are as they have become very technical with electrics and electronics which require well trained people too sort out problems.so back too the main dealer it often is.also most parts and repair,s too them cost alot of money.usually way out of line with the returns from farming.so a option at least too be able too still choose the basic model while still having ur few extra comforts wat ever thy may be???would be good.do the manufactuers ever listen too the customers??not the irish ones any way me thinks.

bogman_bass

The problem is that farmers dont design tractors, enginneers design tractors so you end up with all the bells and wistles.

Do any of the "good" tractor brands still make a livestock mans tractor with a mechanical gearbox anymore?

LostCovey

Nobbies wrote: »

sure they have.many small garages around the country which where onece able too repair ur basic tractor no longer are as they have become very technical with electrics and electronics which require well trained people too sort out problems.so back too the main dealer it often is.also most parts and repair,s too them cost alot of money.usually way out of line with the returns from farming.so a option at least too be able too still choose the basic model while still having ur few extra comforts wat ever thy may be???would be good.do the manufactuers ever listen too the customers??not the irish ones any way me thinks.

I can't see them holding their value like the grey 20

LC

emaherx

bogman_bass wrote: »

The problem is that farmers dont design tractors, enginneers design tractors so you end up with all the bells and wistles.

Do any of the "good" tractor brands still make a livestock mans tractor with a mechanical gearbox anymore?

No the problem is you guys are looking at the wrong tractors. :rolleyes:

MF 4400 series is a stockmans tractor.

others listed here:

jeff greene

Am I the only one that embraces technology and the clear benefits to gives to the operator. That video proves how simple it is to drive, if I was put up on that 6499 and a Ford 7600 for the first time, I'd be using guess work to find reverse on the Ford.

I know of modern tractors by contractors with over 10,000hrs, doing 2k a year and no trouble. The point on mechanics no being able to fix them, my mechanic is very competent on all these tractors, he is a trained professional who maintains its easier to diagnose and fix modern stuff.

Suckler

I'll confess: I graduated from Masseys 100 & 500 series. Never had to deal with the newer types of gearboxes just the usual high-low plus four on the floor!Gear splitters etc./ torque's are a mystery to me Im afraid. Looking at a new machine for the aul fella these days has me scratching my head at times. Called a guy about a massey 3095 and he was telling me its 16 gear, but mentioned four on the selector and four on the shifter??? This make sense to anyone? My take was you have four gears, and four others within those gears- Will not be offended if Im corrected!!:o:o

emaherx

jeff greene wrote: »

Am I the only one that embraces technology and the clear benefits to gives to the operator. That video proves how simple it is to drive, if I was put up on that 6499 and a Ford 7600 for the first time, I'd be using guess work to find reverse on the Ford.

I know of modern tractors by contractors with over 10,000hrs, doing 2k a year and no trouble. The point on mechanics no being able to fix them, my mechanic is very competent on all these tractors, he is a trained professional who maintains its easier to diagnose and fix modern stuff.

No again . These tractors have their place. And the controls are very nice to use. But there is definetly still a market for simpler machines for farmers who do not want to pay/can't afford to pay a trained mechainc for every little adjusment or minor service.

How many MF 100 series tractors or Ford 3/4/5000 tractors is there still working on farms? many of which have never/rarely been serviced properly.

doubt that very nice 6499 would be able to survive such abuse.
but the 4400 series might.

But I agree totaly the electronics in modern tractors can make life a lot easier for people who operate them 12 hours a day all summer long.

Atilathehun

emaherx wrote: »

No again . These tractors have their place. And the controls are very nice to use. But there is definetly still a market for simpler machines for farmers who do not want to pay/can't afford to pay a trained mechainc for every little adjusment or minor service.

How many MF 100 series tractors or Ford 3/4/5000 tractors is there still working on farms? many of which have never/rarely been serviced properly.

doubt that very nice 6499 would be able to survive such abuse.
but the 4400 series might.

But I agree totaly the electronics in modern tractors can make life a lot easier for people who operate them 12 hours a day all summer long.

Ya, makes it easier knock back the cans of Bulmers without spilling any of the juice:cool:

jeff greene

emaherx wrote: »

How many MF 100 series tractors or Ford 3/4/5000 tractors is there still working on farms? many of which have never/rarely been serviced properly.

doubt that very nice 6499 would be able to survive such abuse.
but the 4400 series might.

Not too many in reality, run abouts and yard scrapper. Give them hard work and they'll break down too, how many have more that 10,000 hrs.

Engine and gearboxs need clean filters and sufficient oil regardless, so I don't believe older tractors can survive without servicing, both engines and gearboxs are the same in principle more or less.

There is no reason, paring negligence in terms of servicing and maintance that the 6499 will not outlast the 4400

emaherx

jeff greene wrote: »

Not too many in reality, run abouts and yard scrapper. Give them hard work and they'll break down too, how many have more that 10,000 hrs.

Engine and gearboxs need clean filters and sufficient oil regardless, so I don't believe older tractors can survive without servicing, both engines and gearboxs are the same in principle more or less.

There is no reason, paring negligence in terms of servicing and maintance that the 6499 will not outlast the 4400

Filters and oil is minimum service, I said without propper service (there is a diffrence). I'm not suggesting neither should be serviced.

4400 is designed to be easily serviced by a farmer.
6499 is definitly not (Not to say there are no farmers capable of it).

We use 100, 300, and 600 series MF's on our farm all serviced reguarly and worked hard (And yes they brake). But I would not claim they are all serviced properly to MF's suggested maintanace schedule. Don't think we are too neglegent either, if we can bale 600 + bales a year with a 25 year old tractor without the need for a mechanic (too often) we must be doing something right.

Tractors like the 6499 which as I have already said are a great tractor and suite large farms and contractors, who use decent mechanics to maintain their machines. I'm not suggesting that these machines are less reliable either, but are far more complicated for your average farmer to try and fix themselves.

jeff greene

emaherx wrote: »

Filters and oil is minimum service, I said without propper service (there is a diffrence). I'm not suggesting neither should be serviced.

4400 is designed to be easily serviced by a farmer.
6499 is definitly not (Not to say there are no farmers capable of it).


but are far more complicated for your average farmer to try and fix themselves.

So what entails a full service on a 6499 that wouldn't be on a 4400? I know newer common rail engines are complex and I know they need software upgrades, why can't a farmer service them. You got to remember the guy that buys such tractors too, a 4400 owner would be stumped by a few buttons;) whereas a 6499 owner is cool and hip:cool: not afraid of new technology.

But the average farmer isn't capable of fixing a major problem on 699 let alone 6499, can he replace a clutch for example, not likely. Yeah there is more to go wrong, doesn't mean it will or its a big job to fix.

pajero12

jeff greene wrote: »

So what entails a full service on a 6499 that wouldn't be on a 4400? I know newer common rail engines are complex and I know they need software upgrades, why can't a farmer service them. You got to remember the guy that buys such tractors too, a 4400 owner would be stumped by a few buttons;) whereas a 6499 owner is cool and hip:cool: not afraid of new technology.

But the average farmer isn't capable of fixing a major problem on 699 let alone 6499, can he replace a clutch for example, not likely. Yeah there is more to go wrong, doesn't mean it will or its a big job to fix.

Bang on,
But can the average farmer really not change a clutch! :eek:

emaherx

jeff greene wrote: »

So what entails a full service on a 6499 that wouldn't be on a 4400? I know newer common rail engines are complex and I know they need software upgrades, why can't a farmer service them. You got to remember the guy that buys such tractors too, a 4400 owner would be stumped by a few buttons;) whereas a 6499 owner is cool and hip:cool: not afraid of new technology.

But the average farmer isn't capable of fixing a major problem on 699 let alone 6499, can he replace a clutch for example, not likely. Yeah there is more to go wrong, doesn't mean it will or its a big job to fix.

I know more farmers who could change a clutch on a 699 than who couldn't. Any one with an I&T manual and a pair of trolly jacks could do it, infact my 10 year old nice could probably tell you how its done.(she seen it done around here enough times )

Robust, reliable, simple to operate and, above all, economical and easy to maintain

From MF's own site on the 4400. They seem to think the 4400 is easier to maintain.
link

jeff greene

emaherx wrote: »

I know more farmers who could change a clutch on a 699 than who couldn't. Any one with an I&T manual and a pair of trolly jacks could do it, infact my 10 year old nice could probably tell you how its done.(she seen it done around here enough times )

From MF's own site on the 4400. They seem to think the 4400 is easier to maintain.
link

Hmmm, I know a few but I know alot more that would have the mechanic in, lets be honest.

Simple servicing and routine
maintenance
The conveniently placed engine
oil dipsticks and fillers are safely
positioned on the ‘cold’ side of the
engine, away from the hot exhaust.
And with convenient ground level
refuelling, self-adjusting brakes
and electronic protection of engine
speed, 4WD, differential locks, PTO
and transmission, routine tasks are
easy and servicing requirements are
minimised.

About the 6400/7400 series, taken from the same site:PIts sales talk, what do you expect.

8k2q1gfcz9s5d4

emaherx wrote: »

I know more farmers who could change a clutch on a 699 than who couldn't.

I only know a handful that would have the tools to do it, never mind the knowledge. the averge stock man doesnt know how to split a tractor

13spanner

jeff greene wrote: »

Am I the only one that embraces technology and the clear benefits to gives to the operator. That video proves how simple it is to drive, if I was put up on that 6499 and a Ford 7600 for the first time, I'd be using guess work to find reverse on the Ford.

I know of modern tractors by contractors with over 10,000hrs, doing 2k a year and no trouble. The point on mechanics no being able to fix them, my mechanic is very competent on all these tractors, he is a trained professional who maintains its easier to diagnose and fix modern stuff.

Sitting behind the wheel of that 6460, I was lost! It's like a spaceship. You make a good point yes, they are designed for the lads doing long days. But for the average stockman, i think all manufacturers should do both a ''high end'' and a ''standard'' version. Like John Deere do Premium and SE models.

reilig

13spanner wrote: »

But for the average stockman, i think all manufacturers should do both a ''high end'' and a ''standard'' version. Like John Deere do Premium and SE models.

The majority of them do. See post #5 for a list

jeff greene

13spanner wrote: »

Sitting behind the wheel of that 6460, I was lost! It's like a spaceship. You make a good point yes, they are designed for the lads doing long days. But for the average stockman, i think all manufacturers should do both a ''high end'' and a ''standard'' version. Like John Deere do Premium and SE models.

I see your point:pac:

Most if not all manufactures do offer simple alternatives, see the link above, but after tasting caviar I wouldn't go back to bacon and cabbage;)

KatyMac

Heehee! I've a 1966 Massey Ferguson 135 for 'pottering jobs' and a 1969 Massey Ferguson 165 for heavier jobs!! Both keep going with the minimum fuss. I've sat on a few new tractors and would struggle to put one of them in gear and I'm not 'ancient'. Last winter the 165 had dirt in the fuel tank and stopped in the middle of the road late evening with a bale on back. I had necessary tools and was able to clear the pipe (by blowing into it) and getting home. Doubt I'd be able to do that on any of the tractors in these pictures here! I like a machine that a couple of taps with a hammer will fix what ails it!!!!

13spanner

KatyMac wrote: »

I like a machine that a couple of taps with a hammer will fix what ails it!!!!

My point exactly. We had a Massey 290 and we knew it inside out. The gearbox was dodgy so to get it into 1st gear you had to get it into 4th, 3rd, 2nd and THEN 1st. We could fix almost anything with whatever was in the toolbox. The less electrics the better I say!