How much child maintenance should I pay?

Irish.Dad

Dear All, I am new to boards ie. I am in need of help and advice.

My wife and I split up about 2 years ago. She kept the home house and I moved to the city to live with my brother. I had worked in the construction sector, so when my business failed so did the marriage (most of the failure is on my head. For about a year i was unemployed and gave half of my dole money to my wife (per week). When I did get a job in the bar business I was giving her 250 a week. I was working all the hours i could. The bar then shut down and I lost my job again. 6 months passed. I got a job in construction sales. Layed off after six months exactly. Durning those times in employment, I gave her half my earnings when I had it to give. She pays the moragage on the house and takes care of our 3 kids. Ages 12, 7, 3. I would take the kids every second or third weekend. I had to drive to the west of IRE to collect and return, but I did not mind that. I got the money from family/friends some how.
For the last eight months my income has been €196. I give her €75. The rest is for food, rent, petrol, insurance etc.

Just in the last 60 days I got a good job in N.Ireland. The expenses in moving up here we quite high and I have to pay all the money back that i borrowed. That will take me a few months.

The situation is, she minds and takes care of three kids 90%+ of the time.
She pays the morgauge on the house.

I want to give my fare share to help, but what she said to me tonight really got me mad. She gets €295.00 a week + child allowance for 3 kids.
I gave her €700.00 at the beguinning of this month.

How much money should I give her per child?
How much of the morgage should I give her?

I have to pay the morgage on the second property we own, which is twice the house morgage.

Many thanks for your thoughts and for reading this long story

January

I've moved this to a thread of it's own as the other one was old...

Morag

Ideally you should be paying half the mortgage of the family home (if it is in both your names) and half the cost of the kids.

K-9

It really comes down to what your income and reasonable expenses are. If you are on Social Welfare courts will normally award €30-50 as anything above that is pointless.

You are working so draw up a statement of means, your normal income and reasonable expenses. You'll have moving or travel expenses to work so make sure they are accounted for. Discounting reasonable expenses is well.......unreasonable!

Concentrate on your income and reasonable expenses. If you travel a lot to have access to children include the costs.

Your ex's income is also important. Make a point that she has her own income included as well.

Ideals are great and most Dads want to be seen to contribute fairly, courts are seeing cases every day that unfortunately ideals are just that..........ideals.

Klingon Hamlet

If you're both financially stuck, why not sell off the second property? That would ease your expenses, hopefully clear most/all of the second mortgage.and allow you both to focus on the more pressing responsiblity: your kids' happiness.

From the sounds of it you're under alot of pressure financially and travel-wise. I hope it all works out for you.

Irish.Dad

K-9 wrote: »

It really comes down to what your income and reasonable expenses are. If you are on Social Welfare courts will normally award €30-50 as anything above that is pointless.

You are working so draw up a statement of means, your normal income and reasonable expenses. You'll have moving or travel expenses to work so make sure they are accounted for. Discounting reasonable expenses is well.......unreasonable!

Concentrate on your income and reasonable expenses. If you travel a lot to have access to children include the costs.

Your ex's income is also important. Make a point that she has her own income included as well.


Ideals are great and most Dads want to be seen to contribute fairly, courts are seeing cases every day that unfortunately ideals are just that..........ideals.

I could go through the process of listing my expenses and income, as I am willing to pay half the morgage. How does one know how much each child will need?

Irish.Dad

I would like to thank all who responded to my post. The answers are certinally food for thought.

I have the second property on the market with two real estate firms for over a year. There has been only a half a dozen enquiries and a few offer just stupid money to buy the property.

many thanks again to all.

K-9

Irish.Dad wrote: »

I could go through the process of listing my expenses and income, as I am willing to pay half the morgage. How does one know how much each child will need?

Forget about half the mortgage.

If you earn €500 and you need €400 for reasonable expenses, that's all you can afford.

Keep emotion out out of it. It isn't about emotion, the problem with emotion is you may well promise too much and put yourself in difficulty.

Keep yourself calm and collected, this isn't about what she wants or thinks she is entitled to or what you think you should pay.

The judge is an independent third party, put the facts in front of him/her, income and fair expenditure. This isn't about what she wants or thinks she is entitled to, them days are gone.

You've been laid of, where on the dole and are trying to earn an income. Don't be penalised for that. Explain all that, you are trying your best, don't promise the unachievable.

Morag

Irish.Dad wrote: »

I could go through the process of listing my expenses and income, as I am willing to pay half the morgage. How does one know how much each child will need?

You need to work out estimates, food, clothing, school expenses, medical expenses, holidays/hobbies per child and divided by two and ideally pay that much.
It's not always possible but, this is what happens in mediation.

theg81der

My hubby pays €75 a week for one child to his ex, they weren`t married so no maintanence to her and they didn`t joinly own a property.

You should consider getting an official separation agreement at least everything would be sorted completely. It makes sense to me if you have two houses you keep one each and then contribute to the children. Does she have a new partner? this changes things as far as I know.

Moonbeam

Work out how much the 3 kids cost.

Does she get back to school allowance?
Do they have a medical card?
Are there childcare/play school costs?

She gets child benefit for 3 kids which is 447 euro pm
Does she work?
Does she get lone parents allowance?

The mortgages are tough,is the 2nd house rented out? If you can't sell it will the rent pay for itself?

You need to sit down with her and work out what is costs to run the house and pay off other joint expenses that you have every month,what income she has to run it and then work out maintenance for her and the kids and an access agreement and put it in writing.
It maybe a case that total expense are eg 10 but the mortgage on the 2nd house is 6 so you might have to pay that until it stops costing but no maintenance until it is no longer an expense etc.

Kildrought

Does she have a new partner? this changes things as far as I know

No it doesn't. Parents are obliged to support their children.

You need to work out estimates..... per child and divided by two......

This is not accurate; child maintenance is based on both parents income & expenditure.

The situation is, she minds and takes care of three kids 90%+ of the time.
She pays the morgauge [sic] on the house.

She gets €295.00 a week + child allowance for 3 kids.
I gave her €700.00 at the beguinning of this month.

Since we don't have the relevant outgoings the figures don't really mean much. The maximum that can be awarded in District Court is €150 per child per week. Anecdotal evidence suggests that the average award is in the region of €75-€85 per child per week; which on the higher figure works out at €1105 per month for the three of them.

Consider also these two factors:

a. If the children lived with you full time, ask yourself how much a childminder would cost for 3 children x 40 hours per week (and your former wife is caring for them 24 hours per day, not 8 hours).

b. Married parents spend on average between 25-30% of the total family income on their children.

Finally, I'd suggest after 2 years separation it's time ye started talking seriously about settlement issues and getting a parenting plan sorted. Seeing your children for 10% of the time is a very low contact rate - they need you.

theg81der

Kildrought wrote: »

No it doesn't. Parents are obliged to support their children.

This does change the support he is giving his ex and affect her household income

needadvi

You seem like you were a nice Dad and Hubby.

Kildrought

theg81der, please don't post inaccurate information.

Parents are obliged to support their children, and, where necessary, husband and wife are obliged to support each other even after they are divorced.

The obligation to maintain ones spouse only goes away if the spouse re-marries (that hasn't happened here).

The obligation to support ones children only ends at 18 or 23 if in full time education.

theg81der

Kildrought wrote: »

theg81der, please don't post inaccurate information.

Parents are obliged to support their children, and, where necessary, husband and wife are obliged to support each other even after they are divorced.

The obligation to maintain ones spouse only goes away if the spouse re-marries (that hasn't happened here).

The obligation to support ones children only ends at 18 or 23 if in full time education.

Never said anything about him not having to support his kids :rolleyes: that never changes and where the hell did I said it did? And things do change if the other parent is living with someone else - they don`t have to be married. My parents separated and they took my mums partner into account so you better go tell them they got it wrong so...

K-9

theg81der wrote: »

My parents separated and they took my mums partner into account so you better go tell them they got it wrong so...

Well if she had a partner living with her it would be fair to assume he was contributing to household expenses. The OP didn't mention she has though.

Kildrought

...took my mums partner into account...

Only in so far as the general bills would be concerned, since the additional person in the household would tend to also increase the usage of electricity/hot water etc., an unrelated partner is not expected to contribute to the spousal or child maintenance.

theg81der

K-9 wrote: »

Well if she had a partner living with her it would be fair to assume he was contributing to household expenses. The OP didn't mention she has though.

Right - I said exactly what you said and asked him, if you check, wheather or not she had :rolleyes:

K-9

Kildrought wrote: »

Only in so far as the general bills would be concerned, since the additional person in the household would tend to also increase the usage of electricity/hot water etc., an unrelated partner is not expected to contribute to the spousal or child maintenance.

Yes. If total household bills like ESB etc. are included as expenses contributions towards those from a partner should be declared.

TrixIrl

ok, not sure how welcome this post is going to be but...

As a 23 yr old whose parents split up when i was 7 I just want to make one point. These are your children, they are not a debt or a loan to be paid of or a liability.

How much money will keep them fed, warm, sheltered, safe and at a reasonable standard of living compared to their friends (incl hobbies, school expenses etc, other friends birthday presents etc)? That should be a total figure which should be split in proportion to your earnings, commitments etc.

Never, ever have a situation where a child of yours needs to humiliate themselves by asking for money from you or your ex-wife for essentials e.g. school uniforms because the other parent is bitching they dont receive enough money etc etc. Or when they fear they will get a lecture when they ask. Keep financial matters between you and your ex wife. But essentially it should not be how much I should pay, but how much I can pay.

If you were still together, a large proportion of your income would go towards maintaining your kids, just because youre not together anymore shouldnt mean the kids should suffer. I know you have your own home to maintain now but please just keep it between you and your ex, please dont drag your kids into it.

Irish.Dad

Many thanks for all your thoughts on this issue.

My wife now has a partner. However he spends a lot of time in the house, but never stays over night when the kids are there. I suppose he gives my ex some money to the household. Our second property is a commerical property, which has been on the market for two years.

I wish to provide for the kids first before anything else. Our seperation will come later. My ex said she wants €500 per week. This exceeds my wages by €63 a week. She is extremely unrealistic. I am at my wits end.

Here it is in short hand

- Rent where i live now £250
- Utilities £87
(I work in N.I.)

- Rent i pay my brother €100 month (ROI)
- Monthly payment to EX €700

there are other expenses for travel to collect kids, work etc

Am i paying to much?

HELP!!!

Irish.Dad

Your comments are just as I feel. My ex has at times used my kids a a vice or hold against me.(correction our kids)

Put it this way, I cannot give what I do not have. My funds are limited.

I am open to any and ALL comments. That is why I am on this forum. I can take the good with the bad (for want of other words).

Please keep the comments comming.

Irish.Dad

r3nu41 wrote: »

None

If you can not contribute to this form with intelagent comment, please do not comment at all.:mad:

Irish.Dad

Will be away enjoying my kids, will check your comments MON

Many thanks all

TrixIrl

I dont know if you've already gone down this path but... get it in writing, set in stone by some soliciter/judge etc. Its the only way you'll get any peace. Likewise a proper visitation schedule - they go hand in hand in my experience. There needs to be ground rules and believe me €500 a week will not be one of them if you do it legally.

Once its been established what you can pay for (and it should be hard to get by btw - kids are expensive!), make sure your kids know who they ask for misc expenses e.g. school trips etc. Dont put them in an awkward situation.

If you have extra cash the odd time, offer to pay for once off expenses like uniforms - this will make a huge difference to your relationship with their mother - DO NOT spend it on gifts - thats what birthdays and Christmas are for, you will only be accused of trying to buy them! Also, it is not her partners responsibilty to pay for anything - if you had a gf in the morning that didnt stay the vast majority of the time (when the kids are there in your exs situation) would you expect her to contribute to rent, food etc? No!

You seem like a great dad though - enjoy your time with them! T'wont be long before their on boards bitc hing at some random guy about maintenance payments!

Kildrought

TrxIrl - re your first post - spot on.

My wife now has a partner. However he spends a lot of time in the house....I suppose he gives my ex some money

You can't know this for sure so unless he is actually living there, I'd leave it out for the time being.

I don't quite understand how you can ask if you are paying 'too much'? Too much for what? This isn't shopping around for a new car. They are your children!

As you've already been told, child maintenance is based on both parents income & expenditure.

I've already given you what you might expect to be paying based on 3 children, from anecdotal evidence.

You are currently paying less than that and your former wife would like more.

Essentially you and your former wife have one of two choices to make

a. agree between you on an amount

or

b. go to court and let a judge decide.

Simples.

Irish.Dad

TrixIrl,


many thanks for your advise and by the way, I have no partner since my seperration because I wanted my life SIMPLE. Or i suppose i am afraid to get involved again.

I wish to take care of kid, work, legal seperation in that order, and everything else is secondary

angelfire9

When I was self employed a few years back I had the dubious "pleasure" of preparing income & asset statements & affidavits of means for solicitors and barristers to use on behalf of their clients in divorce hearings

So here is my 2 cents worth

Say your income is €2000 a month (After tax, prsi & statutory deductions)
And you have €1000 a month in LEGITIMATE expenses (that you can actually vouch for)
Your net disposal income monthly is then €1000

Then there is your ex
Her Gross per month is €1250
Her monthly expenses are €500
Her net disposable income monthly is therefore €750

With me so far i hope!

Your net income = €1000
Her Net Income = €750
Total Net Income = €1750

Monthly cost for maintenance of the children then needs to be calculated
Get the annual figures for things like food, clothing, books school trips, swimming, music lessons etc etc
Total it up
Divide by 12
= Monthly cost of child maintenance

In my example say the kids cost €500 a month

The net disposable income of both parents is €1750
The father's income is 57% of that
The mother's income is 43%
Therefore

The father's maintenance for the children should be in the region of €285 per month in this example!

Do you get where I am coming from?

Obviously my examples are EXTREMELY simplistic
but you get my drift I hope

As regards spousal maintenance
That would depend on your wife's income relative to yours

Hope this helps!

Irish.Dad

Thanks for your reply.

That figure of €285 a month for the children seams very low. I was thinking of paying inwards of €800+ per month for the children and half the house morguage.

I will have to put down in figures my exact expenses for a month.

I got to turn in now.

needadvi

Sounds like she is trying to make a fool of you asking you for that amount of money! You will probably have to sort this out through the courts. 500 Euro is just her taking the mickey to be honest.