Pneumonia in a heavy weanling

Kovu

Hey all, just wondering if anyone knows of anything to treat this? My neighbour only noticed its in one of his weanlings the other night. From what I was told, he had been rising on a cow in the heat that day, which prob brought it on when the night got cooler. Anyway, he had a big draw to his breathing when I was called down to inject him. Got two into him, although I've forgotten what he got now. Although that may also be to do with vets handwriting
But he has gotten injections in the vein yesterday and I did him again this morning, and he just can't get the stuff out of his lungs so he is lying with his head stretched out from him with a catch at every breath. Is there anything that would ease this or bring it out of him?:(
(Bar putting his head under a towel with hot water & vicks)

Bizzum

Did the Vet see him?

Kovu

Bizzum wrote: »

Did the Vet see him?

Oh jesus, yes. He was out first thing yesterday and then he was called again this morning. He gave him the IV, just checked there now and it was Nuflor & Baytril.

TUBBY

if he got nuflor that is as strong as you can give him. repeat it in 48hrs after first one. that should sort him. its 1ml per 15kg

TUBBY

could give him a shot of dexameth just to give him a boost Karen. it a cortisone. is he grazing at all.

theres no way he wud have red water is there. wud be very surprised if nuflor hadnt him back lively after couple of hours, always works for me t.g.

Kovu

TUBBY wrote: »

could give him a shot of dexameth just to give him a boost Karen. it a cortisone. is he grazing at all.

theres no way he wud have red water is there. wud be very surprised if nuflor hadnt him back lively after couple of hours, always works for me t.g.

To be honest I haven't been able to watch him loads as the house is half a mile from me. Was watching him today when I was lunging horses in the next field and he spent the day (although it was hot here) lying in the shade, in next to the hedge panting. His eye is still bright and he's alert, but he's choked in the lungs. I already thought it may be lungworm and the warm weather caused a huge hatchout but apparently he's been dosed a few weeks previous. Although, tbh, it's very hard to know if that's just being said or if he was done. He definitely doesn't have red water, clear as day out of him.

Bizzum

Karen112 wrote: »

Oh jesus, yes. He was out first thing yesterday and then he was called again this morning. He gave him the IV, just checked there now and it was Nuflor & Baytril.

I don't envy your neighbour. The drugs are in him now anyway (The weanling-not the neighbour!) The morning will tell the tale!

Kovu

Bizzum wrote: »

I don't envy your neighbour. The drugs are in him now anyway (The weanling-not the neighbour!) The morning will tell the tale!

Was just down with him there now, not looking good so we decided on final action. Irish style. If it works, I'll let you know on this tomorrow afternoon. If not.....send me earphones for the onslaught I will get.:(

Bizzum

He could wake up with a hangover?:)

Kovu

Bizzum wrote: »

He could wake up with a hangover?:)

Worked for us before.....not very scientific, but when it's do or die, you try all to cure a €1200 weanling. Added a few things myself, but sure, we'll see! Could be the next big thing!

bob charles

For these situations its hard to pass Micotil IMV, I was never too impressed with the results of Nuflor or baytril for very bad cases. I presume when you say he is drawing for air, is it with his mouth open and tongue out trying to catch a breath?

Kovu

bob charles wrote: »

For these situations its hard to pass Micotil IMV, I was never too impressed with the results of Nuflor or baytril for very bad cases. I presume when you say he is drawing for air, is it with his mouth open and tongue out trying to catch a breath?

It's you that mentions it, Micotil is illegal in Ire, so I do not use it, I have far too much to lose if I even attempted, basically I'm not one to have it on hand because of the inspections. No tongue out but when you see a 450kg weanling with it's nose down it's either given up, or asleep.

Bizzum

Karen112 wrote: »

It's you that mentions it, Micotil is illegal in Ire, so I do not use it,

Really?

Kovu

Bizzum wrote: »

Really?

Yup, Never used it here in my life! Better go see this lad now...

bob charles

Karen112 wrote: »

It's you that mentions it, Micotil is illegal in Ire, so I do not use it, I have far too much to lose if I even attempted, basically I'm not one to have it on hand because of the inspections. No tongue out but when you see a 450kg weanling with it's nose down it's either given up, or asleep.

No, Micotil is vet only nowadays unfortunately. Its a joke that this was withdrawn for general use after some problems (deaths in some instances) in the States with self injection either by accident or by choice. Still available online in the States and doesnt require Vet certification.

Kovu

bob charles wrote: »

No, Micotil is vet only nowadays unfortunately. Its a joke that this was withdrawn for general use after some problems (deaths in some instances) in the States with self injection either by accident or by choice. Still available online in the States and doesnt require Vet certification.

But if it's found on your farm there's a heavy fine, is there not? And possible loss of grants etc. I now it can cause death to the handler if injected accidentally into a person. (now now people, no new poisons for your enemies:eek:) I've just seen enough quietening around it to know that it isn't a normal practiced drug down here.

bob charles

Karen112 wrote: »

But if it's found on your farm there's a heavy fine, is there not? And possible loss of grants etc. I now it can cause death to the handler if injected accidentally into a person. (now now people, no new poisons for your enemies:eek:) I've just seen enough quietening around it to know that it isn't a normal practiced drug down here.

yes correct your are not allowed have micotil in-stock as its only allowed be administered by a vet. so hows the animal

Kovu

bob charles wrote: »

yes correct your are not allowed have micotil in-stock as its only allowed be administered by a vet. so hows the animal

Surprisingly looking better! I may have stumbled across a new mix for a helping hand when it's combined with a shot of Dex Still a bit of a way to go from being cured, but I thought he was on deaths door last night with the way his head was hanging. Just going in to the vets now to get another shot and some powders for his stomach, life aid and the like, simple sugars to put in the water he's drinking.

Lizard_Moon

Karen112 wrote: »

It's you that mentions it, Micotil is illegal in Ire, so I do not use it, .

Micotil is VSO- veterinary surgeon only- in Ireland which means the vet actually has to give the drug to the animal.

Causes a horrific vasoconstriction- swelling and loss of circulation- if self injected and can lead to loss/severe damage in the hand for example. Had a farmer in the practice I worked in in UK spend 14 days in hospital after inj into his hand.

How did bullock do? Heard of people rubbing mustard all over the chest on both sides and wrapping brown paper over it like a blanket.

Kovu

Lizard_Moon wrote: »

Micotil is VSO- veterinary surgeon only- in Ireland which means the vet actually has to give the drug to the animal.

Causes a horrific vasoconstriction- swelling and loss of circulation- if self injected and can lead to loss/severe damage in the hand for example. Had a farmer in the practice I worked in in UK spend 14 days in hospital after inj into his hand.

How did bullock do? Heard of people rubbing mustard all over the chest on both sides and wrapping brown paper over it like a blanket.

Jaysus, the poor animal would think he was being cooked if I tried that on him.:eek:
He's iffy enough, just looked at the list of stuff he's gotten since Saturday night. Poor lad is like a pincushion & I don't envy the vets bill. He's gotten: Synulox, Nuflor, Baytril, Micotil (apparently the vet gave him some) Dexameth and one more I can't think of. Tonight will tell the tale. Annoying though, to have to watch him and know that you can't do anything else for him.

LostCovey

Lizard_Moon wrote: »

How did bullock do? Heard of people rubbing mustard all over the chest on both sides and wrapping brown paper over it like a blanket.

Karen112 wrote: »

Was just down with him there now, not looking good so we decided on final action. Irish style. If it works, I'll let you know on this tomorrow afternoon. If not.....send me earphones for the onslaught I will get.t.

Karen112 wrote: »

Worked for us before.....not very scientific, but when it's do or die, you try all to cure a €1200 weanling. Added a few things myself, but sure, we'll see! Could be the next big thing!

I tried............ so hard............not to be provoked by this thread, but....sweet Jebus........what the hell are people thinking????????????????????????

What on earth are people thinking in suggesting that Irish farmers try experimental cocktails of drugs & illegally distilled alcohol on food animals? Mustard and brown paper is more Jamie Oliver than James Herriot, and would be hilarious if there wasn't a risk that some head-banger might actually try it! Sick animals, people, need diagnosis and treatment.

Karen112 please restrict your urges for artistic experimentation to your growing tattoo collection.



LC

PS Sorry to be so predictable

Kovu

LostCovey wrote: »

I tried............ so hard............not to be provoked by this thread, but....sweet Jebus........what the hell are people thinking????????????????????????

What on earth are people thinking in suggesting that Irish farmers try experimental cocktails of drugs & illegally distilled alcohol on food animals? Mustard and brown paper is more Jamie Oliver than James Herriot, and would be hilarious if there wasn't a risk that some head-banger might actually try it! Sick animals, people, need diagnosis and treatment.

Karen112 please restrict your urges for artistic experimentation to your growing tattoo collection.



LC

PS Sorry to be so predictable

Ah, I was wondering when you'd join in to slate me.
I personally have only ever treated with whiskey to warm an animal from the inside out. Same benefits as one of us gets when we drink a hot drink with a bad headcold, the only difference I added this time was garlic and a few other things to get a bit of sugar into him. I have not used mustard......even I am bewildered by that one. There is all matter of old wives tales out there but I've never been one to tie a red thread around an animals foot to cure a strain.....to be fair, a lot of it is codswallop and you take advice with a pinch of salt. He has been treated by the vet from day 1 and is still ailing, so you cannot accuse me of being ignorant towards his treatment (Also the animal is not mine, it's my neighbours, who is a firm believer in treating everything with booze)

I never mentioned illegally distilled alcohol by the way.

And my tattoos are coming on nicely by the way:D

Lizard_Moon

That mustard thing has been used before and Karen did ask for non drug treatments. A vet was treating the animal, and some of these old cures do help.

Kovu

Lizard_Moon wrote: »

That mustard thing has been used before and Karen did ask for non drug treatments. A vet was treating the animal, and some of these old cures do help.

Well, as I'd exhuasted all mine and my vets knowledge about medical treatments, I thought I'd ask here. There is nothing better than experience. Different combinations of injections can have different results.

LostCovey

Lizard_Moon wrote: »

That mustard thing has been used before and Karen did ask for non drug treatments. A vet was treating the animal, and some of these old cures do help.

Dancing anticlockwise around a hedhehog has been used before and is an old 'cure'. It is still nonsense..

<mod snip>

LostCovey

LostCovey

Karen112 wrote: »

Well, as I'd exhuasted all mine and my vets knowledge about medical treatments, I thought I'd ask here. There is nothing better than experience. Different combinations of injections can have different results.

Karen,

No harm to you, but you need a licence to experiment on animals.

And it tends to draw "the wrong crowd" around your premises if you get one of those.

LostCovey

Kovu

LostCovey wrote: »

Dancing anticlockwise around a hedhehog has been used before.

<mod snip>

LostCovey

If you're saying that I've had veterinary education, you need to get your eyes tested! I stated I did a cert in Veterinary Assistant. Which is clearly not Veterinary Medicine.

Kovu

LostCovey wrote: »

Karen,

No harm to you, but you need a licence to experiment on animals.

And it tends to draw "the wrong crowd" around your premises if you get one of those.

LostCovey

I'm getting confused in this thread. I merely wanted to ask peoples opinions on treatments! As I have been called down three times a day to look at this animal and inject him, I wanted to see if anyone had any success with a certain injection that I had not given, or if they had advice on what to do. I certainly don't want my neighbour pumping injections into him any more than necessary.

LostCovey

Karen112 wrote: »

If you're saying that I've had veterinary education, you need to get your eyes tested! I stated I did a cert in Veterinary Assistant. Which is clearly not Veterinary Medicine.

Sorry Karen, for any additional confusion I have caused you, that was a reply to LizardMoon (see above).

I was not accusing you of having a veterinary education.

LostCovey

LostCovey

Karen112 wrote: »

If you're saying that I've had veterinary education, you need to get your eyes tested!

Tested????

Why????

Can't I just ask a random online forum what they would prescribe for them?

LC

Kovu

LostCovey wrote: »

Sorry Karen, for any additional confusion I have caused you, that was a reply to LizardMoon (see above).

I was not accusing you of having a veterinary education.

LostCovey

Makes more sense now alright:o

Do you actually care about people having an opinion on something though? Or is everyone wrong except you. I believe I have the right to ask something on a forum without having my motives questioned, as do you, especially when I have carried out all other available and perceivable methods of treatment.

LostCovey

Karen112 wrote: »

Makes more sense now alright:o

Do you actually care about people having an opinion on something though? Or is everyone wrong except you. I believe I have the right to ask something on a forum without having my motives questioned, as do you, especially when I have carried out all other available and perceivable methods of treatment.

I didn't question any of your motives, just your actions. You mean well, I have no doubt.

But having said that, you are utterly wrong about giving alcohol to warm up an animal or a person:

Karen112 wrote: »

I personally have only ever treated with whiskey to warm an animal from the inside out. Same benefits as one of us gets when we drink a hot drink with a bad headcold, the only difference I added this time was garlic and a few other things to get a bit of sugar into him.

It actually chills them.

Ask anyone who ever did a First Aid course, even a FÁS one!

On the other hand I have a serious problem with someone like LizardMoon trained in evidence-based medicine, in possession of a licence to sell advice on animal treatment peddling moonshine and granny's mustard 'n' brown paper fairy tales.

That's all.

LostCovey

Bizzum

With all the excitement I was wondering how the weanling is?



This mustard and brown paper trick:
Would it ease a tattoo upon the upper thigh, that was not healing as one might like?
I couldn't help but have a look!!!!!

Kovu

Bizzum wrote: »

With all the excitement I was wondering how the weanling is?



This mustard and brown paper trick:
Would it ease a tattoo upon the upper thigh, that was not healing as one might like?
I couldn't help but have a look!!!!!

Oh my god. Thanks for informing the farming forum of that!
That was my Secretariat tattoo (in case you're THAT interested)

LostCovey, I think we're going to have to agree to disagree, I respect what you say and I understand how you mean it. But I am one of the old breed and will always use a fallback method when stumped.

The weanling....hard to know, he's lost a lot of condition and is wavery now. But he's drinking a lot of water with LifeAid and he's gotten all the treatment the owner is prepared to spend. So all we can do is wait. Got him to eat ivy for me earlier so that was good at least. His eye is bright and his ears aren't too chilled, yet every so often his sticks his tongue out and has a bone shaking rough husk of a few coughs. Plus a very audible grunt with every breath. His heart rate is quite high, temp is high not sub. I honestly can't do anything more for him, except get the mustard!

Lizard_Moon

LostCovey wrote: »

Dancing anticlockwise around a hedhehog has been used before and is an old 'cure'. It is still nonsense..

<mod snip>

LostCovey

Responding to queries on this forum should carry a health warning.

The OP was looking for any advice on treatments for severe pneumonia.
The animal was UNDER VETERINARY CARE and receiving antibiotics and antiinflammatories.

I was not offering any veterinary advice but relating what farmers have done, successfully in many counties both East and West, to relieve some of the discomfort associated with pneumonia. I had come across such treatments and relayed that information.

Your closed minded attitude to non pharmaceutical adjuncts to therapy is surprising. We are running out of antibiotics at an alarming rate both through resistance and legislation. We need to demonstrate that we are not only relying on there use to treat infections especially viral ones.

I suppose the equine vets in the Curragh treating wounds with Manuka honey will be joining me in front of those committees.

<mod snip>

Kovu

Lizard_Moon wrote: »

Responding to queries on this forum should carry a health warning.

The OP was looking for any advice on treatments for severe pneumonia.
The animal was UNDER VETERINARY CARE and receiving antibiotics and antiinflammatories.

I was not offering any veterinary advice but relating what farmers have done, successfully in many counties both East and West, to relieve some of the discomfort associated with pneumonia. I had come across such treatments and relayed that information.

Your closed minded attitude to non pharmaceutical adjuncts to therapy is surprising. We are running out of antibiotics at an alarming rate both through resistance and legislation. We need to demonstrate that we are not only relying on there use to treat infections especially viral ones.

I suppose the equine vets in the Curragh treating wounds with Manuka honey will be joining me in front of those committees.

<mod snip>

I think I should stop posting on this forum.....it always ends in an argument:(

LostCovey

Lizard_Moon wrote: »

Responding to queries on this forum should carry a health warning.

The OP was looking for any advice on treatments for severe pneumonia.
The animal was UNDER VETERINARY CARE and receiving antibiotics and antiinflammatories.

I was not offering any veterinary advice but relating what farmers have done, successfully in many counties both East and West, to relieve some of the discomfort associated with pneumonia. I had come across such treatments and relayed that information.

Your closed minded attitude to non pharmaceutical adjuncts to therapy is surprising. We are running out of antibiotics at an alarming rate both through resistance and legislation. We need to demonstrate that we are not only relying on there use to treat infections especially viral ones.

I suppose the equine vets in the Curragh treating wounds with Manuka honey will be joining me in front of those committees.

<mod snip>

<mod snip>

No I would not be totally pro-pharmaceauticals - manuka honey which you mention, has some published peer reviewed evidence for efficacy. I just think <mod snip> to promote baseless snake-oil (or should that be brown paper 'n' mustard) remedies.

<mod snip>

LostCovey

johngalway

At the risk of making more work for myself this thread is open again after some comments have been edited out.

IF it is to continue then it shall do so with posters showing each other civility and some degree of respect.

LostCovey

johngalway wrote: »

At the risk of making more work for myself this thread is open again after some comments have been edited out.

IF it is to continue then it shall do so with posters showing each other civility and some degree of respect.

How is the animal now?

LostCovey

Kovu

I am going to ask to end this this thread after saying that the animal made as full a recovery that can be hoped for. He will now be killed out after he hits the kill out stage of his injections. And we did blister him (as it's called here LC, with brown paper and mustard) in line with other veterinary treatments, it seems that the heat of it opens their airways so they can breathe more freely for a while.

LostCovey

Karen112 wrote: »

I am going to ask to end this this thread after saying that the animal made as full a recovery that can be hoped for. He will now be killed out after he hits the kill out stage of his injections. And we did blister him (as it's called here LC, with brown paper and mustard) in line with other veterinary treatments, it seems that the heat of it opens their airways so they can breathe more freely for a while.

Thank you for the update Karen. Truly fascinating. A few questions before I try it. Do the blisters take long to heal? Does French or English mustard work best?

LostCovey