Astec bought by HKC

altor

Thanks HKC for responding to this thread with your official input.
Counting down the days till the Quantum is released now

Jnealon

Adopting the Astec sensor head technology is a good thing as I found them to be very reliable.
With the fusion on the way out retro-fits and upgrades are going to be expensive.

Cadzer

Shouldnt be to expensive unless the price goes up on the detectors. Enough product for the next 7 years means there is alot of stock still around so cant see the price increasing. If they want to get rid of all the product they could sell at a discount.

KoolKid

Cadzer wrote: »

Shouldnt be to expensive unless the price goes up on the detectors. Enough product for the next 7 years means there is alot of stock still around so cant see the price increasing. If they want to get rid of all the product they could sell at a discount.

I think the Fusion is ideal to facilitate a gradual switch from 2 wire back to global. The PiRs & would be the biggest problem. Especially with limited wiring,

stormvogel

Its good that astec two wire is gone, the sensors were rubbish. My understanding is that HKC will support for 7 years but only on an advice basis and a programming basis, the 63, 49 and fusion panels will no longer be made and when the stock is sold that will be the end of them.....

KoolKid

As has been explained here. They will not just stop making anything.
They need to announce an obsolete date and then honour guarantees after that.
For panels and control equipment that's 2 years.

altor

stormvogel wrote: »

Its good that astec two wire is gone, the sensors were rubbish. My understanding is that HKC will support for 7 years but only on an advice basis and a programming basis, the 63, 49 and fusion panels will no longer be made and when the stock is sold that will be the end of them.....

I dont think many installers will be still putting in these system as they know they are going to become obsolete soon enough. At lease there is plenty of stock there if replacements are needed. The 2 wire and the fusion is gone in the coming months.

Jnealon

stormvogel wrote: »

Its good that astec two wire is gone, the sensors were rubbish. My understanding is that HKC will support for 7 years but only on an advice basis and a programming basis, the 63, 49 and fusion panels will no longer be made and when the stock is sold that will be the end of them.....

Never liked them myself but my electrical sub used them a lot and never had any issues apart from a batch of M/cs a few years ago. The difference between him and most other astec installers/electricians was that he installed them properly.
You will see a lot of astec systems with connector blocks stuffed everywhere, behind keypads, behind sensors, smoke detectors etc.
Poor connections is where most faults occur

stormvogel

bad installations and connector blocks certainly cause alot of problems. Solder joints and heat shrink makes things alot easier...... But contact entry fault on a zone fitted with inertias only is a real problem.... Glad they are gone, or will be soon. Take overs may generate a few more quid now.

fred funk }{

stormvogel wrote: »

bad installations and connector blocks certainly cause alot of problems. Solder joints and heat shrink makes things alot easier...... But contact entry fault on a zone fitted with inertias only is a real problem.... Glad they are gone, or will be soon. Take overs may generate a few more quid now.

There was a manufacturing flaw in the MC's several years ago. Whilst soldering the reeds they need to bend the legs, they mistakenly cracked the reed cylinder and that caused all the problems. The past several years they have been very reliable.

I have literally installed hundreds of the two wire systems. My biggest gripe with them is in regards to the sounder bus, if there are multiple things connected it is very difficult to find the fault as there could be an external bell, internal and smokies.

There has been a few houses over the years that have broke my heart where I have replaced nearly every component on the alarm. All those houses were Astec two systems, I never had those sort of problems with other systems but I do agree, most of the reported faults are down to bad connections as the Astec has very little tolerance of dodgy connections.

Just to ad, I have never any problems the newer Fusion panel which I think is a super panel.

stormvogel

Granted, the fusion is good but i was wary of it simply because it is an astec, but have never had a prob with it after installing 10 or so....

altor

stormvogel wrote: »

bad installations and connector blocks certainly cause alot of problems. Solder joints and heat shrink makes things alot easier...... But contact entry fault on a zone fitted with inertias only is a real problem.... Glad they are gone, or will be soon. Take overs may generate a few more quid now.

Thats where it got its bad name from. From being out to fix these systems it is more so down to bad installation practices than the system itself.

fred funk }{

Astec/HKC have stopped production of the Astec products exept the global sensors. They only have a handfull of components left and when they're gone they're gone.

So much for the seven year rule. Clearly Gerry Kelly isn't concerned about it.

Jnealon

Replacing astec sensors, contacts, panics etc should not be an issue as long as you have the correct resistors for each type of sensor

fred funk }{

Jnealon wrote: »

Replacing astec sensors, contacts, panics etc should not be an issue as long as you have the correct resistors for each type of sensor

Correct. Where I see the problems are when the likes of a keypad goes faulty/damaged, the complete system will have to be replaced. And, there are loads of alarms out there with Keypads and PIR's wired from spare pairs from cables, that will make retrofitting difficult. I must stock-up on resistors .Interesting times ahead.

altor

fred funk }{ wrote: »

Astec/HKC have stopped production of the Astec products exept the global sensors. They only have a handfull of components left and when they're gone they're gone.

They have already told us this was going to happen in there e-mail they sent around. As global sensors can be used on the older system there is no issue there but I can understand where your coming from with the keypads plus if worse comes to worse retrofitting but again with the cables it can be incorporated into another system. Not good for customers with these system but at lease there is an option.

KoolKid

I have no problem replacing with global devices but I'll be damned if I use HKC units.

altor

The HKC unit will now be using the Astec head in there devices.

Jnealon

Makes sense

altor

I think so also.

Jnealon

Yes it does

Cadzer

KoolKid wrote: »

I have no problem replacing with global devices but I'll be damned if I use HKC units.

Like altor said its a combination of astec head and hkc pcb. sounds good to me. what sensors do you use or recommend?

KoolKid

GE would be my next choice.
I like the astec global both for reliability & design. I do not like the design of HKC sensors Not buying HKC is also a matter of principle in this instance.
There is a huge market for Astec devices but HKC are just trying to force choice here. Likewise with the Astec SABB being dropped. I will use the interface but I wont be putting a HKC SABB on the other end.
What happened to ·

HKC will hold spare parts for the support of Astec products for a minimum of 7 years

?
Replacing with HKC is not my definition of spare parts.
Continuing the Fusion would have been the better option in my opinion.
This would have facilitated a gradual change from Astec 2 wire devices to HKC . Handier for the customer & installers alike. In this instance a change of panel & a gradual change of sensors z,zone by zone, as issues arise would be better. Mucking around with resistors is not the ideal solution.

Irish Fire

Have to admit I would use HKC a fair bit but I'm begining to shy away from their gear, I find when I have problems it's mostly with HKC gear. Maybe just me but shying away none the less. Anyone agree?

KoolKid

What particular problems have you had?

Irish Fire

Silly stuff like inertias giving trouble, the digi seems in my mind to give its fair share of trouble as well. I’ve looked through the fault calls and warranty calls we’ve had over the last few years and the majority have been HKC. Now saying that HKC would not be our most common fitted panel so this would not be the major factor on this.

KoolKid

I do find the sensors a little above average with faults.
Maybe that why they had to buy Astecs one!:rolleyes:

Irish Fire

KoolKid wrote: »

I do find the sensors a little above average with faults.
Maybe that why they had to buy Astecs one!:rolleyes:

fred funk }{

To be honest lads, I find HKC very reliable but I don't use their wired inertias but I do use nearly all of their other products.

Irish Fire

fred funk }{ wrote: »

To be honest lads, I find HKC very reliable but I don't use their wired inertias but I do use nearly all of their other products.

Have you had much trouble with the digis? I've have some (not a huge amount) Line not releasing after call etc... silly stuff really