Reason behind the death of the Irish Pub

Dionysus

Wile E. Coyote wrote: »

you can't beat the banter that goes with watching a big match, be it soccer, rugby, gaelic, hurling etc in a pub with a load of other people.

And that attitude is the problem: people who subscribe to it are deciding the culture in the vast majority of so-called Irish pubs. In doing so, they have suppressed all those people who can't abide that rubbish blaring into conversations. They have convinced themselves that they are the majority: they are not. Soccer, and soccer followers, are a minority in Irish society. This very recent conquest of Irish pubs by publicans broadcasting soccer-obsessed (and to a far lesser extent rugby and GAA obsessed) tv stations is an imposition on the rest of us who are perfectly happy with our own conversations and the company, wit and humour of friends. This tiresome fare of soccer broadcasts by the average Irish publican is more a case of "same shíte, different day". I go to a pub to talk with people about real things in our real lives, not contrived crap about people I have no interest in and who have no impact upon my life other than intruding upon the civilised conduct of organic social life in Irish pubs.

Televisions are anti-social, and I still subscribe to the (clearly outdated) idea that a pub should be a social centre, a public house. The trend for the past 10-15 years of blaring television noise across entire pubs irrespective of the preferences of large numbers of patrons, and that trend alone, is enough for me to look forward to the speedy demise of these so-called "Irish" pubs.

With the exception of tv-free pubs like The Gravediggers in Glasnevin the modern Irish pub has nothing to do with a quiet pint and a quality conversation. The conversation in these pubs entails shouting over the noise, and the noise is put up louder with the intention of encouraging customers to drink more. Fairly shíte psychology going on in the minds of the "Let's blare tv sports all over the pub" pub owners.

Paparazzo

jetsonx wrote: »

The main problems:


1) Cultural Problem in the Industry - An industry which always taken its customers for granted as (up until now) there has never been any real competition to the drinking culture in Ireland.

2) Poor Customer Service - Frankly, there are way too many Irish people who
work in this industry who are rude and aggressive. At least, the Chinese and E. Europeans who work in this industry actually seem to care about the job they perform.

3) Dim Witted Lobby Group - The Licensed Vintners Association is a joke of an organisation. Advertising pubs on the radio? Yes, there were funny ads. But they failed to tackle the real issues. Reminded me of British Rail in the 1980s telling everyone to "take the train" when at that time their service sucked. Those ads never worked either.

I agree with 1 and 3. The LVA are terrible, we all know about price fixing, and them blaming absolutly everything but high prices on falling trade, shouting down the cafe bar idea, actually having the cheek of trying to get supermarkets charge more for alcohol to increase customers.

But not 2. Irish barmen are the best. Go to a bar almost anywhere else in the world and they won't take an order till they poured the last customers drinks, handed them out, and charged them and given them change. Irish barmen have an amazing ability to take orders from 5 different people at the same time and not forget who ordered what.

Dionysus

And another reason for the decline of pubs: the hygiene standard of their toilets reflect an Irish mentality on hygiene from, perhaps, 1955.

The hygiene standard in the average pub is shocking. If we had hygiene and health legislation in this state that was enforced, a huge number of these "Irish pubs" would be shut down on health and safety grounds. It's really breathtaking the low quality of what the average pub offers us.

tommyboy2222

JustAddWater wrote: »

Also bought a koppaberg in the czech inn recently and then went literally across the road and it was €1 dearer in Turks head

Someone explain please!

They were charging a different price in the Turks head :pac:

mikemac

Have a beer with your pizza instead of a pizza with your beer

It's very clever when you think of it, of course it was a barrister who came up with it, it's their job to be able to communicate

That Café-bar was a great idea
Huge lobbying to the republican party ended that idea but there were not alone, there are even more publican TD's in Fine Gael.

A good idea shouted down by self interest

homerjay2005

Minstrel27 wrote: »

Excessive greed is what is killing the Irish pub.

please take into account though that about 40% of the pricing is down to the greed of the government. add in rates and rent and running a pub becomes a poor proposition.

im not ap pub owner before i get accused of one or work in a pub.

homerjay2005

Dionysus wrote: »

The hygiene standard in the average pub is shocking. If we had hygiene and health legislation in this state that was enforced, a huge number of these "Irish pubs" would be shut down on health and safety grounds. It's really breathtaking the low quality of what the average pub offers us.

it says more about the people, than the pubs to be honest...dirty people breed dirty practices. Ireland is full of people who appear to have been dragged up, rather than brought up.

helimachoptor

Honestly been a while since i had a good session in the pub. Had a mate over for a few beers there a couple of weeks ago and we've done a couple of other sessions.

The last few times we bought 2 boxes (12 bottles) of Cobra for €12 each and then a pizza deal(€20) from the local place so basically €22 quid for the nights entertainment.
Last time we bought a box of cobra, 7 bottles of polish beer and 6 bottles of kopparbeg and it came to €35, in the pub across the road the beer would have cost over €100... cant argue with staying at home!

FTA69

jetsonx wrote: »

I am mainly referring to the doorstaff. A few decent ones but most are boneheads who are completely tactless and give me the impression they are just out of the "the Joy".

That's a load of crap to be honest because door supervisors have to be licensed and the Private Security Authority generally doesn't license those who served time in prison for any serious offense. The notion that most bouncers are "boneheads" is complete b*llocks to be honest as the vast, vast majority of them are decent people doing a demanding and necessary job.

helimachoptor

homerjay2005 wrote: »

im not ap pub owner before i get accused of one or work in a pub.

Not exactly true now Ed is it:D

the bolt

i worked in a pub in london a good few years ago and had to go on one of their training days and was asked if i would rather sell one pint for one million pounds or one million pints for a pound a piece.anyway after i was done telling him that i would rather sell the million pints at a quid as otherwise it would be a pretty boring pub i knew i was on the way out.the funny thing was that this wasnt one of the big chain pubs but a small brewery/pub but the were losing the way already
the main reason i dont go to the pub any more is because of the smoking areas,no mater how good the are i dont want to be in and out all night although i know of 1 or 2 where they have a bar in the smoking area and on a nice night there is nothing better.
the price argument wouldnt persude me as before the smoking ban came in i would have prefared 1 pint in the pub to a load of cans/bottles in the house.
arsey landlords that think your a troublemaker if you ask him why his pint of whatever is as flat as a witchs tit and then offer to fill you another one from the same tap as if that one was going to be any better.

maringo

Extortionate prices especially for mixers

Degag

Paparazzo wrote: »

But not 2. Irish barmen are the best. Go to a bar almost anywhere else in the world and they won't take an order till they poured the last customers drinks, handed them out, and charged them and given them change. Irish barmen have an amazing ability to take orders from 5 different people at the same time and not forget who ordered what.

+1 on this. A competant Irish person behind the bar is better than three foreigners put together. Generally. If that's racist then i won't apologise.

lizardhunt

Come to Oz there are loads here.

Rabidlamb

I've a thought, many people seem to prefer the cafe bar idea that they are familiar with from Italy.
There are now hundreds of full on licences going unused & former premises that have shut down.
What's to stop a proprietor opening one of these former pubs as a cafe restaurant that can also serve beer.
What am I missing, surely the Vintners couldn't object to this model ?.

Tubsandtiles

I think for people living in towns the Pub can be full of people you don't want to see eg "that wnaker from up the road". I'm glad the smoking ban came in but as a non-smoker among friends that all smoke its a pain in the ass at times having to accompany them out there or stand like a loner in the pub as the smoke

mandrake04

I was back in Ireland in 2006 for a holiday and went to my old local (in large country town), even then the place had changed so much since 2004. I was sitting having a drink with a few friends on a friday night and this crowd of Eastern Europeans came in with a carryout of cheap cans and just sat and then cracked them open in the pub, when confronted by staff they just sat pretending they didnt understand what they were doing wrong.

It started to get a bit ugly and they were told to leave, started threatening people etc and left. 5 minutes later there was a bottle through the window and hit some girl in the head.

Then on my way home I was tortured by these old Romany begger women trying to sell me flowers and crap while I was waiting to get a taxi at 1 o'clock in the morning, I had to check where I was ....I thought this crap only happened in Dublin.

A few friends told me they didnt really go out that often anymore and the lads who used to play Trad on a wednesday night stopped playing etc. The old local where everyone knew everyones name and there was a sense of community and plenty of jokes & craic its all a distant memory now. That was 2006 so I suppose the GFC and the prices certainly put the nail in the coffin these days.

Gummy Panda

I'd rather go to the gym tbh.

Only pub I really like is The Church on Jervis st. Feels more social bar and professional then a pub that wants people skulling pints.

It's expensive no doubt but I feel I'm paying for what I get. Also the toilets are generally spotless.

Jaysoose

Degag wrote: »

+1 on this. A competant Irish person behind the bar is better than three foreigners put together. Generally. If that's racist then i won't apologise.

Racist? probably not.. Complete nonsense? definitely.

Dyr

Gummy Panda wrote: »

I'd rather go to the gym tbh.

Only pub I really like is The Church on Jervis st. Feels more social bar and professional then a pub that wants people skulling pints.

It's expensive no doubt but I feel I'm paying for what I get. Also the toilets are generally spotless.

Professional? do you go to a pub to feel professional

Plus I don't generally drink in the jacks :pac:

Gummy Panda

Bambi wrote: »

Gummy Panda wrote: »

I'd rather go to the gym tbh.

Only pub I really like is The Church on Jervis st. Feels more social bar and professional then a pub that wants people skulling pints.

It's expensive no doubt but I feel I'm paying for what I get. Also the toilets are generally spotless.

Professional? do you go to a pub to feel professional

Plus I don't generally drink in the jacks :pac:

No the pub feels professional like they actually care about the service they give.

I don't drink in the toilets either but when cost of maintaining them is embedded into the cost of the pint, I expect them to be clean.

Tubsandtiles

Gummy Panda wrote: »

I'd rather go to the gym tbh.

Only pub I really like is The Church on Jervis st. Feels more social bar and professional then a pub that wants people skulling pints.

It's expensive no doubt but I feel I'm paying for what I get. Also the toilets are generally spotless.

Exactly, cant beat the feeling after a good session in the gym

ct5amr2ig1nfhp

+1 Nothing like a good Guinness after a session in the gym

finisklin

Millenium celebrations changed punters drinking habits in so far as people realised that they didn't have to go to the pub to have a party atmosphere and a party. I remember going to the pub that night and it was go quiet, an anti climax really as everyone was at house parties.

The penny dropped that the craic wasn't cemented into the pub. Shortly after this the smoking ban came in and with further price gouging as already mentioned punter realised that this was a rip off.

IMO, the death of the Irish pub is not a healthy thing as an important part of our culture and identity has been lost. Before I get a bashing, it's the loss of the people not going to the pubs that is lamentable. The characters and the craic with that unique Irish wit and wisdom (more so in country, rural pubs) is a big void.

Difficult to get that back....not unless we compile a database of the characters and where they live so that we can get the craic on tap, so to speak.;)

Still, Stephens day wouldn't be the same without going to the pub having a few beers and checking out the totty in there Xmas finery! It has to be the best day for craic in the pub in the calendar year.

Shenshen

(10) Lack of choice

Most pubs seem to serve a maximum of 6 or 7 kinds of beer, and 2 types of wine. And in most pubs, those beers and wines will be exactly the same kind of mass-produced rubbish.

I never understood how a country who likes to drink like the Irish can get by with that little choice... and quality.

Tubsandtiles

BearNecessities wrote: »

+1 Nothing like a good Guinness after a session in the gym

And before aswell ?

m5ex9oqjawdg2i

Cost is the major factor.

Customer service, or lack of, is another major factor. Go to a pub or bar on the continent, awesome sauce...

del_c

**** atmosphere...especially a blaring television and loud music...what is the story with showing coronation street in the pub in the evening on four seperate plasma screens. And not everyone wants to be confronted with Hull against Aston Villa not matter where you are sitting. One telly per pub please...or at least a few areas you can sit in where you don't hear or see it.

I don't really buy into the price thing...3.5 or 4 quid for a pint is not that expensive by european standards. It was 2 punts when I started boozing, so that's not big inflation when you consider the lounge boy was earning 1.60 or 2 quid max an hour then and must be paid 8€ now (not meant as an attack on the min wage btw)

Home drinking, and the growth of popularity of wine among males and females...there is a huge difference between on and off trade wine prices.

Drink driving...well that kind of annoys me, as there was a fairly short period of our history when drinkers drive around pissed...maybe about 35 of 40 years. What happened to hopping on the bike and cycling a mile or 2 to the pub...be safer and healthier for everyone by far.

ICE HOUSE

I think the main problem here in Ireland is the for so long the Pubs seemed to think that everything revolved around them.Ive saw people who were regulars in pubs for 10+ years who would have dopped tens of thousands in the place being barred overnight for something petty and treated like strangers by the establishments.Not all but most Pubs and clubs had p*ss poor service especially the clubs.Ive never saw a city up till year ago trying to get into a club was such a f*cken huge deal, like a lottery, asking yourself as you walked up to the door "will I have my night ruined again" by being told I cant enter this over priced p*ss ridden dungeon.On a different note but similar same can be said for a lot of restuarants here and owners contineously complaining but even still can get the basics of customer service right.

jetsonx

And another problem - While I don't expect pubs to serve meals, those that
do - don't seem to do it to a high standard.

For example, I do not consider "burger and chips" as a main course on a pub menu as "choice". Sure, they will give it a fancy name like a "Texas Ranch Burger" and "chipped home-cut potatoes". Sounds nice eh...? What you actually get is a frozen burger and frozen chips served with two leafs of limp lettuce on the side.

Irish publicans I think have still not realised that Irish people are pretty well
traveled. They have seen the standards set in other countries. When Irish people come back to dear little old Ireland and get fizzy beer,sh!t food, boneheads standing at the front door of the establishment - the supermarket offering of premium continental beers and cheaper+better food looks much more attractive.

si_guru

ICE HOUSE wrote: »

On a different note but similar same can be said for a lot of restuarants here and owners contineously complaining but even still can get the basics of customer service right.

You're spot on there...

Grunt - "sit there" - then menu thrust under your nose... ...20 mins later disinterested yob rolls up with chewed biro & note pad - "what da ye's want?"

SERVICE!

7sr2z3fely84g5

Pubs in the good times used to make a fortune over christmas,wasnt usual to have a €20+ door charge on new years/stephens night.

Dyr

Gummy Panda wrote: »

No the pub feels professional like they actually care about the service they give.

I don't drink in the toilets either but when cost of maintaining them is embedded into the cost of the pint, I expect them to be clean.

I keed, I keed. I've been to the church, it was all a bit too cavernous and empty for my liking but the jacks were pass remarkably impressive. Quality of the beer didn't knock me out though.

Hannibal Smith

finisklin wrote: »

Still, Stephens day wouldn't be the same without going to the pub having a few beers and checking out the totty in there Xmas finery! It has to be the best day for craic in the pub in the calendar year.

haahaa that is so true!

Dyr

Shenshen wrote: »

(10) Lack of choice

Most pubs seem to serve a maximum of 6 or 7 kinds of beer, and 2 types of wine. And in most pubs, those beers and wines will be exactly the same kind of mass-produced rubbish.

I never understood how a country who likes to drink like the Irish can get by with that little choice... and quality.

I'd love to know the history behind it ..at some point we had some diversity in beers and then presumably it all just went guinness/smithwicks/fizzy pish.

ronan45

As a Chap that would love my few pints in the pub on a weekend. Would Spend about E100 a week.

My reasons for cutting back Vastly on going to my locals

"My After work Pint on the way home on Friday" (10 Euro)
A pint or 2 after work on a friday on the way home. (Too worried ill be done for drink driving which happened to a mate of mine on his way home at 6pm he had 2 drinks) Wouldnt dream of it

"My Friday Night Drinks in the local with the lads" (50Euro)
Instead ill Get 10 cans from the Off licence and have a few drinks myself in the house, maybe put on a bbq (all in 25 Euro)

"Saturday Piss Up after the match drinks" (50 Euro)
Lot of the lads out of work now, so its beers in one of their houses again

A round now in my local for 2 guys is about 8.70, It Just isnt worth it. Im looking for Value these days:D

Cavehill Red

neilthefunkeone wrote: »

Craft beers and the lack of pubs uptake?

Look at Against the Grain in Dublin.. Pretty much all craft beers.. busy every day of the week...

Exactly. I recall Mulligans in Stoneybatter opening last year. All Irish craft beers on tap, great food and whiskey selection too. The locals came in looking for Guinness, Heino, Bud etc and were baffled that none of them were available. They started grumbling and said the pub would never turn a buck. Never mind the fact the previous owners hadn't turned a buck trying to sell that muck.
One year on, the pub is Gastropub of the year, and packed out most nights of the week, and this in a semi-suburban location on the Northside. They haven't had to resort to cheapo 3 euro pint offers. Just doing a good job - great beers that you can't get in most other places, plus good food, whiskey and wine, excellent service and a nice ambience.
There's definitely a role for that kind of pub, as their success and that of Against the Grain, Bull and Castle etc are showing.

moomooman

I've spent a lot of time in Madrid and found the Cafe bar setup there great, alcohol is pretty much always consumed with some form of food. Coincidence maybe but you also wont get your head kicked in by steaming drunk neanderthals, as actually being drunk is pretty uncool.

Doormen. Having to squeeze between two obese men while they evaluate your worth as a human being and make your entrance as unpleasant as they can gets my night off to a bad start every time. How come I never see this setup in other countries?

The Jax. Reading other comments here made me realise that my locals pis lagoon is a common thing. Since the smoking ban (great idea imo) the reek of pis and the farts has shown up the stale air and filth of the irish pub. How clean are the glasses when the rest of the place is such a dump?

Customer service. Most staff are ok but some havent made the transition from slinging pints of mass produced lager to actually being able to mix drinks. Ask for a Cuba Libre and watch the eye rolling and sighing you get. :rolleyes:

Music. I wouldnt listen to "Now thats what I call music #173" turned up to 11 at home, why would I want to endure it while I'm out for some conversation with friends? I'm sick of having to lipread and scream "WHAT?" as someone bellows into my ear loud enough to cause pain, and still I end up smiling/nodding and just saying "yeah" and hoping for the best...

Sport. Not everyone likes football. Shocking I know, but I dont care who "We" beat or what "We" won. If they were local teams that would be something.

leakyboots

Bambi wrote: »

I'd love to know the history behind it ..at some point we had some diversity in beers and then presumably it all just went guinness/smithwicks/fizzy pish.

Didn't Guinness basically run the local micro-breweries out of town? For a "national symbol", they have a pretty ruthless business history behind them.

It's a cosy cartel now where Diageo and the couple of other drinks suppliers rule the roost with their boring, bland, beers.

Sick of the lack of choice in pubs.

Dyr

And then this state nanny c**t weighs in:

http://www.thejournal.ie/poll-should-the-government-set-a-minimum-price-for-alcohol-188252-Jul2011/

subsidise bikes and tax beer.

helimachoptor

moomooman wrote: »

I've spent a lot of time in Madrid and found the Cafe bar setup there great, alcohol is pretty much always consumed with some form of food. Coincidence maybe but you also wont get your head kicked in by steaming drunk neanderthals, as actually being drunk is pretty uncool.

Sport. Not everyone likes football. Shocking I know, but I dont care who "We" beat or what "We" won. If they were local teams that would be something.

Agreed, visited Madrid a couple of times in the last 9 months to see a (greek) friend and before that visited him in Germany, the cafe scene is fantastic, a bit of food and some beers/wine and a good atmosphere.
In germany there was a german rugby team with about 40 people drinking in Dusseldorf, they were hammered but all in good spirits and at no stage did they get vulgar/violent a pleasure to see.
In Madrid i seen once argument and it was over a seat, but it was handbags. The owner bought all involved parties a beer and got another stool for them to sit on.

My own local would very rarely show NFL, but if there is a big game on and i'm there i'll ask them to put it on

Happyman42

leakyboots wrote: »

Didn't Guinness basically run the local micro-breweries out of town? For a "national symbol", they have a pretty ruthless business history behind them.

It's a cosy cartel now where Diageo and the couple of other drinks suppliers rule the roost with their boring, bland, beers.

Sick of the lack of choice in pubs.

My local publican will tell tales about how the 'porter' to be used for the day was pumped into troughs behind the bar. The Barman would then dip his glass into it and let it settle before giving it to the customer.
However hands holding cigs would dangle over the counter and be flicked into the trough....if somebody sneezed, it was pot luck what ended up in there etc etc....I think the sealed barrel concept was an easy sell from a customer point of view!

FlipperThePriest

JustAddWater wrote: »

I was in wexford and pint of bulmers and a pint of bud was €8.20

You wouldn't get change from a tenner in Dublin. How is that possible?

Also bought a koppaberg in the czech inn recently and then went literally across the road and it was €1 dearer in Turks head

Someone explain please!

Pubs in the city are generally forced to add a little bit on to cope with extra costs such as rent of premises, higher staff wages. In a lot of pubs in rural areas the premises would be owned by the publican and he won't have as many staff to pay so he can afford to pass on the savings.

mvt

Bambi wrote: »

And then this state nanny c**t weighs in:

http://www.thejournal.ie/poll-should-the-government-set-a-minimum-price-for-alcohol-188252-Jul2011/

subsidise bikes and tax beer.

Its not a tax on beer its setting a minimum price for the sale of alcohol.Theres's a big difference.And the daily carnage on our streets and in our A & E's would suggest this is an idea worth thinking about.

Dyr

mvt wrote: »

Its not a tax on beer its setting a minimum price for the sale of alcohol.Theres's a big difference.And the daily carnage on our streets and in our A & E's would suggest this is an idea worth thinking about.

Carnage is it? We better ban cars so while we're at it...and those poxy corpo bikes..bet they're causing their fair share accidents. Might want to set a minumum price - maximum height on high heels. Maybe on trampolines too. And capri suns and all..could have someones eye out with one of them straws.

And anything else some twat thinks that he can use as a stick to beat the general populace into behaving they way he wants to them to.

finisklin

Punters are price conscious and want value for money. Publicans are only awakening to that fact now.

Nothing worse than meeting your publican picking up his beer cans/bottles/jameson in your local Tesco or Dunnes at below cost. He then has the cheek to charge you three or four times what he paid for it to you on a Saturday night. :rolleyes:

gk5000

Greed, not just on pub prices but restrictive licence practices; so we had too few pubs, massive superpubs without atmosphere and limited choice of venue or real competition between pubs.

Minstrel27

Tim the Enchanter wrote: »

6. TV is only on for sports. He's doing breakfast for the rugby world cup so people that don't have sky can go early to watch the games.

But the Rugby World Cup isn't on Sky

FlipperThePriest

I personally can't stand carlsberg, heineken, budweiser, harp, coors etc.. so I couldn't justify going to a pub 2 or 3 nights of the weekend to pay pay 5 quid for a pint of this muck when I can brew a far better beer at home for 50cent or buy one from an off-licence for a euro. I do go out at least once a week though for the social aspect only. As long as our goverment and diagio continue to manipulate the market by way of licencing costs, tax and total product domination the Irish pub industry will continue to suffer. What publican in their right mind would consider paying huge set up costs to open a microbrewery pub or one that offers alternative drinks to be told by diagio - sorry get that stuff out of your pub or we won't supply you with guinness... too big a risk having paid all the initial costs so they all end up playing safe with the same old crap drinks on tap. It's a sin.

Most people in Ireland settle for guinness, carlsberg, heineken, budweiser, harp, coors, and couldn't be arsed with anything else, so as long as people don't break away from this trend and stick their middle finger up at diagio there is always going to be a problem.

previous user

Did somebody mention a while back that a Hooters was opening up down
in Cork or thereabouts?