Reason behind the death of the Irish Pub

ikb

The pub (a public house) was/used to be a place where people gathered to swop news etc. it was often combined in a shop- where people would 'have a pint' while getting their groceries. It may also have contained the only telephone for miles..and people would gather, while waiting for news from abroad.
Point being.. the pub is an evoloution, some into gastro pubs-others into Hotels/ Guest Houses,etc.
At some point, the pub may have been the only place that had a Telly. And so people assemble to watch the News etc.
As to the decline of the pub, I believe there are many factors in play.
As already suggested, the cost of the pint, drink driving (enforcement), the smoking ban.....and so on.
Also must be considered, the cost of everything else...Gas, ESB, Mortgage...
And the fact that we have higher expectations in life, you dont see many children in pubs anymore (its bad example), a lot of young people around my way have cars (at 18 years of age..unheard of-un affordable- a few years ago) and pay 3 or 4 grand to insure them. We all like to have a Holiday (Abroad??), and a lot of kids 'expect' to go to college....
Maby it is the high prices,poor service,dirty toilets, drink driving or smoking ban that has the bars empty............. or maby the 'Pub', as we know it... has run its course.;)

chiefwiggum

i was at a place in wicklow....6.30 for a rock shandy..6 feckin 30..left after that

Yahew

Continental drinking culture is massivel different from Irish! For one thing, people go out to socialise and not to get pissed. They can also make their own way home withotu screaming and singgin, puking up everywhere and starting fights.

What part of the continent have you been to? London?

People see what they want to see. I have never seen a fight in Dublin, but I have avoided the centre of town for years. In the locals I go to when I go home, the bar staff are good, the people are friendly, the music is low or non-existant, the TV is on at a moderate level only if there is a game on, or highlights. People talk, nobody gets sh*tfaced, and we go home. Admittedly it is generally over-30's.

This is our cafe culture. It often comes with food, and often the food is very good. The Irish pub which hopefully will survive is that kind of local pub - which also exists in the centre ( think James Joyce's haunts) with the addition of some new gastro pubs, or pubs with a wider range of beers. England has a great culture of local pubs too. And some great local beers.

The binge drinkin culture is not the tradtional Irish form of drinking , with the exception of festivals, and is common in English speaking cultures. Loud music. Loud bars. 10 TVs. Thats not exclusively Irish, nor did it originate here. Could be America. Could be Australia. Could be England. Nearly always city centre. I have problem seeing that go, but it would be nice if locals survived.

Yahew

Buceph wrote: »

Leaving your snark aside, don't ****ing go to that pub. Go to a different pub. Not all pubs are the same. I just outlined to you many reasons why one would go to a pub with a TV. Unless you were literally asking the whole of boards.ie why you yourself would go to a pub with TV. And that would be exceedingly ridiculous. So I don't think that's the case, I think you were stating a personal preference and extrapolating that to everyone else.

Thats easy to say, however people follow the crowd. When I lived in Ireland in my 20's I was in pubs like that all the time. The fact that other people went was why we were there. ( Try bringing a group of people who are in their 20's to a quiet pub where there are only couples and older groups).

There are good pubs, but social pressures dictate that people follow the crowd.

skregs

1: Price.
I won't pay over a fiver for a pint. End of.
Hate going to a pub with the wife because you pay ridiculous amounts of money for wine/short&mixers.

The places that do cheap pints usually get mobbed by 19 year olds looking to drink more than they can handle. The Sub Lounge under Tara St station do 3 euro pints, but last time I was there, some teenager at the table next to me puked all over the floor, then just sat there like nothing had happened.
No thanks.

2: Poxy loud music

I cannot stand this. I usually spend all my time drinking in the smoking area (and I don't smoke) to avoid this. Grand if its a live band, but I dont need to hear Beyonce bursting my ear drums at 8:30
Was in a place on Baggot St a while back, they were pumping the music into the smoking area (very very annoying) and then when I went to the toilets, they were blasting the music in there too!!

3: Doesn't matter who's playing, football is on. I seriously do not give a crap if Doncaster and Hartlepool are playing. Even worse when you're trying to watch an Irish golfer or Irish rugby to be told they'll only show football.




Can we list the pubs that are actually good? Cheap pints, entertaining stuff etc?
I always go to Peadar Kearneys on Dame St. Full of tourists yeah, but downstairs they have pool tables, beer pong and a juke box, the bands upstairs are always good craic and there's always a good atmosphere to the place.
The Woolshed is another place I like, great for sports

Degag

Zebra3 wrote: »

I have the channels I want.



Why would I want to watch tv with all my friends? I meet up with my friends to talk with them and have a drink, not to watch tv or read the paper.



I don't watch rugby.



I'm not socially retarded. I don't need a blaring tv to help me engage in conversation. It's actually a distraction from talking.



I don't watch golf and I don't need to be watching something in the background, it's distracting.



I don't smoke.

The bolded parts up there is your problem. You think that a pub should cater for your individual specific needs when it is impossible for it to do so. The pub caters for the masses, has done and always will. All you have to do is find the pub that caters for the masses that suits you.

Sonnenblumen

Degag wrote: »

The pub caters for the masses, has done and always will. .

Which masses do you refer to, hardly the type that stay away, or even harder to imagine the one that is increasingly declining?

Most publicans have changed little since the dark ages, these dinosaurs have poor understanding of customer care/awareness and much of their earlier success had nothing to do with frills or services, but the paying customers. As these disappear, the pub is exposed for what it is nothing more than a empty shell.

It is a strange but dawning reality that taxis and publicans have both screwed all and sundry for years. All and sundry are now voting with their feet, and few have no sympathy but contempt for the whingers.

Degag

Sonnenblumen wrote: »

Which masses do you refer to, hardly the type that stay away, or even harder to imagine the one that is increasingly declining?

Most publicans have changed little since the dark ages, these dinosaurs have poor understanding of customer care/awareness and much of their earlier success had nothing to do with frills or services, but the paying customers. As these disappear, the pub is exposed for what it is nothing more than a empty shell.

It is a strange but dawning reality that taxis and publicans have both screwed all and sundry for years. All and sundry are now voting with their feet, and few have no sympathy but contempt for the whingers.

My point is that a pub can not please everyone. For one person who wants no tv, there's another who does. For one who wants no music, there is another who does and so on.

johnnyskeleton

Buceph wrote: »

I also think the whole café thing could have taken off if McDowell wasn't such a hateful man, and if the Vintner's Association were told to feck off. Instead of billing it as a European style thing, which is sure to get people's backs up (at least once the Vintner's start their hate campaign of "who do you think we are Mr. McFrenchypants, all we want is an honest pint of stout after an honest days work, none of this frog legs and snails with a glass of champagne.") Change it to a situation where there's a cheaper and easier-to-get drinks license for people who earn less than 50% of their income from booze. So you'd have places that would serve coffee and teas, food in the form of small munchies and cakes open until 12.30. They'd be able to attract the people who don't want to go to a pub, but have had no choice until now. And you might say why not do that as it is now? Mainly because in a group of five or so, there will always be one or two who want a couple of beers instead of the coffee and cake. At the moment, if people went to a café the drinker couldn't drink at all, so these groups default to a bar or staying at home. If a café was earning most of it's money from non-drinkers, but still allowed for a minority of people to get a bottle of beer, they shouldn't have to pay for a pub license.

You can do this now in many cafes and resteraunts. In fact, a quiet cafe that serves wine/beer would be delighted to have people come in just to drink wine/beer because they make much higher profits on this than on food.

The point being that such facilities are currently there and if people want them they can avail of them. But generally people don't, and in fact the trend is reversing and we are now seeing more "gastro-pubs" than we are drinking-cafes.

King of Kings

I find that the boom in the population are hitting their 30's now with kids coming into the equation hitting the pub regularily isn't an option.
Ten/fifteen years ago most of that boom in population were packing the places out but now they're paying for pampers and oppressive mortgages.
Well most of them.

I dislike pubs for the price mostly - a fiver a pint is too much. Although my local is redeeming itself with bavaria and tuborg for 3.45 or 9 for a pitcher - both of which are quite decent on draft.

Also i dislike the selection in most bars - it's piss poor. I like beer with some taste beyond bud. heineken etc...stuff like becks, holsten and a craft beer or two.
But when you go to a bar like Bull and Castle - they ride you for decent (or unusual) stuff. I remember being stiffed for 7.50 for a bottle of english cider there once. I was on a stag so I couldn't leave in protest.

Can't say smoking, piss on the jacks floor or TV really would turn me off if I'm only going for pints.

Although I wish they did off licence (at off licence prices) at 10pm so you could take something home with you at closing time. If they held it behind the bar for you.

southsiderosie wrote: »

Or you could join the rest of Europe and develop a real cafe/restaurant culture...just a thought.

that's a load of bollocks. Cafe culture is **** boring in europe.
I'll admit I've never been to madrid.
But I have travelled in Germany,Italy and France as well as Eastern Europe (admittedly a long time ago).

Where in Italy (Rome) was good craic - the irish bar which was a shame as I have a golden rule of avoiding them abroad. But there is only so much I could take of a cafe that was quieter than a morgue.

The bars and clubs in germany are savage craic for a night out but they are bars/clubs akin to our own (only better)

Zebra3

Degag wrote: »

The bolded parts up there is your problem. You think that a pub should cater for your individual specific needs when it is impossible for it to do so. The pub caters for the masses, has done and always will. All you have to do is find the pub that caters for the masses that suits you.

My apologies for explaining my reasons for staying away from pubs. :rolleyes:

MagicSean

Short answer - Greed
Longer answer - Greed and the vintners association/cartel

Degag

Zebra3 wrote: »

My apologies for explaining my reasons for staying away from pubs. :rolleyes:

You're entitled to your opinion. You seem to think however that just because you don't like something, everyone should dislike it.

Merch

Degag wrote: »

You're entitled to your opinion. You seem to think however that just because you don't like something, everyone should dislike it.

Unless it disagrees with yours??
I did not pick that up from their post at all?
Are/were you a publican?
Its no wonder pubs are losing business anyway, they have an attitude of, dont like it? tough, well now they dont have the luxury of too much custom.

poppyvalley

chiefwiggum wrote: »

i was at a place in wicklow....6.30 for a rock shandy..6 feckin 30..left after that

Scandalous!

Bassfish

Another failing is the lack of anything to do in the pub except sit there, talk ****e and get drunk (although there's nothing wrong with that on occasion) and also the lack of catering for non-drinkers or people bringing the car to the pub. I don't drink a whole lot and many of my friends are the same or don't drink at all but unless we're calling around to one another's houses we usually meet up in pubs because lets face it, where else are you going to meet up in Ireland. Alot of bar staff will look at you like you just called their mother a c**t if you ask for tea or coffee after 7pm. There are some really nice non-alcoholic beers/ciders out there but the only one you usually find is Becks, which is mank. There's usually not alot of other drinks besides the usual coke, fanta, 7 up etc which are hard to drink for more than an hour.
Also we usually seek out things like quiz nights, film clubs, gigs and poker tournaments etc but these are few and far between in Cork.

Merch

20 euro for coke that can be bought for 2 euro in supermarket?

I mean if you want to encourage people in, especially those that might not want to have a drink, need to bring mixers/minerals down

mikemac

A bar I worked in would sell large bottles for three euro when the carvary was on.
So if a family of four wanted lemonade for all, just buy the glass bottle, TK lemonade was the brand

I thought it was a good deal, shame more pubs wouldn't have this
Even if only when their carvary is on if they have one

Dionysus

chiefwiggum wrote: »

i was at a place in wicklow....6.30 for a rock shandy..6 feckin 30..left after that

Name and shame.

the_syco

the Vintner's Association

The reason for the failure of the pubs is the success of the Vintners Association (and their ilk).

x in the city

Wile E. Coyote wrote: »

I'd go with the ridiculous price of the pint and piss poor service in most places.

90% of pubs have dog sh.i toilets.... doesnt help matters


if you pay excessive money for pints you at least expect some bog roll in semi decent facilities with a hand dryer that works and doesnt need you waving your hands like a demented loon.

and when it does work it lasts for about 2 seconds...duh

x in the city

Dionysus wrote: »

Name and shame.

hahaha 6.30


wow

Zebra3

Degag wrote: »

You seem to think however that just because you don't like something, everyone should dislike it.

No, I don't.

I never said anything like that, but hey, feel free to make stuff up. :rolleyes:

Degag

Zebra3 wrote: »

No, I don't.

I never said anything like that, but hey, feel free to make stuff up. :rolleyes:

That's what post #209 sounds like. You can say that you didn't say anything like it but thats what you're implying.

flas

southsiderosie wrote: »

Sorry, I'm calling bull**** on that. I've lived in Spain, and while people drink a lot, 1) it's generally with food, and 2) it tends to stay good-natured. Over eight months of living in Madrid, I saw ONE fight after a night of going out drinking - and I went out three or four nights a week. And alcohol is far more readily available there than in Ireland - cafe/bars serve at 8am, the wine and beer is VERY cheap, and most locals won't close until 3am on the weekends. In my old office, there was even beer in the cafeteria vending machine, and people would have one with their lunch.

Another difference is that while young people get ****faced, it is very rare to see men in their 30s and 40s who are absolutely hammered at 10pm - and when you do, they are almost inevitably tourists. And to see a Spanish woman over the age of thirty who is off her face is as rare as hen's teeth.



What does pickpocketing have to do with pub culture?

you can call bul!sh!it on it all you like, just because the places you tend to frequent in Ireland have 30 and 40 year olds falling around the place drunk at the weekends doesnt mean everywhere is like that, not any of the pubs id drink in anyway. continental europeans, as you have pointed out in your own post tend to drink far more than over here, using your post as an example 3 or 4 nights a week, where as the Irish seem to have a habit of only going out once a week, all be it some of the younger people tend to drink a weeks amount of booze in a few hours. It seems to be your basing a whole countries social drinking habits on where you have socialised, id say spread the net a bit more.

One of the pubs i worked in for over 4 years, il use as an example would be evry busy on saturday nights, but it would be mostly 30 upwards in age and on average the customers would drink between 5 and 8 pints in the night, i think in my 4 years there i seen one bit of an arguement, never a full blown fight, so to say all Irish drinking culture is full of drunken savages is a complete fabrication. 5 euro a pint is bullcrap aswell, 3.90 is what a pint costs in most of the pubs i drink in, 3.70 for guinness, and a vodka is 3.60, no cost for a dash as that is just a rip off.

The pick-pocketing reference was just to say that althought madrid is a class city it also has its problems.

flas

Ikky Poo2 wrote: »

Continental drinking culture is massivel different from Irish! For one thing, people go out to socialise and not to get pissed. They can also make their own way home withotu screaming and singgin, puking up everywhere and starting fights.

What part of the continent have you been to? London?

dont know what you or your friends do, but me, nor none of my friends walk home screaming and shouting, puking or starting fights, its rude, ignorant and shows a lack of respect for other people if you ask me. would mostly go out, have 7 or 8 pints, go home or go to a house party where there will be people just chillin out and playing music. The whole of this country isnt like temple bar on a saturday night.

haha, have an uncle living in London, was only ever there for 3 nights once in my life, no i was talking more about the likes of hamburg, rotterdam, dusseldorf, well, its a town about half hour outside of dusseldorf, brussle's(which is a feckin scary place at night, seen a ridiculous amount of assaults and muggings going on there after dark), donetsk, places like that. go to hamburg, go to the reeperbahn on a weekend night and come back to me, that place is absolute madness. It makes temple bar look like mosney! go to copenhagen and wander on down to fristaden(christiania on the maps), lovely spot actually! every place has its vices and its areas for the locals to go nuts, it does not just happen in Ireland.

Zebra3

Degag wrote: »

That's what post #209 sounds like. You can say that you didn't say anything like it but thats what you're implying.

No, I simply use "I" when talking about myself.

It's how the English language works.

If you're not clever enough to understand that, that's your problem.

Degag

Zebra3 wrote: »

No, I simply use "I" when talking about myself.

It's how the English language works.

If you're not clever enough to understand that, that's your problem.

Look, i'm not going to get into an arguement about it or start giving snide petty insults about it but just because you don't like something regarding the pub trade - or anything for that matter - doesn't mean that you are right and everyone else is wrong. You don't like tvs in pubs, others do. You don't like loud music, others do etc etc. Publicans are there to make money and cater to those who give them that money. If the pub that you go to doesn't cater for your needs, go to another one, but don't think that that pub is wrong simply because you don't agree with it's business policy.

Mully_2011

Bassfish wrote: »

There are some really nice non-alcoholic beers/ciders out there but the only one you usually find is Becks, which is mank..

Non Alcoholic beer is like licking your sister out tastes the same but its wrong

Dionysus

Mully_2011 wrote: »

Non Alcoholic beer is like licking your sister out tastes the same but its wrong

I would have thought this, albeit not in the eloquent terms that you have, if Kaliber were the standard bearer. Thankfully it isn't. Erdinger non-alcoholic is particularly nice. Tesco, and Tesco alone it seems, regularly has it for sale @ €1 per bottle.