Breast feeding mother try to ruin cinema !

quozl

deemark wrote: »

In what country?! Are you for real? I have no statistics to hand, but I can tell you with 100% certainty that it is nowhere near half! And as for your previous comment about status, I'm very confused. Surely, it should be the other way around that women who are poorer would provide their kids with free food, while those who can afford it, pay for formula. Have you a link to the research?

Unfortunately he or she is likely correct about it being poorer and less well educated people being more likely to formula feed.



http://gearybehaviourcenter.blogspot.com/2010/07/socio-economic-predictors-of.html



There are also large numbers of studies for countries outside of Ireland supporting this, particularly mother's education level.

The arguments I have seen for it are that the better educated the mother the more likely she is to know of and to appreciate the arguments in favour of breast-feeding, and additionally she is likely to be older when having children, a factor which increases the likelihood of choosing to breast-feed. Also the more likely she is to be able to access information to help her deal with any breast-feeding difficulties experienced. In Ireland we've lost a fair proportion of our expertise as many people won't be able to go to their own mothers for experience and advice. That is totally different in scandanavia for example.

More articles on this
http://www.dhsspsni.gov.uk/breasfeedingratesyoungmothers.pdf
http://www.crfr.ac.uk/gus/Skafida%20(2009)%20The%20relative%20importance%20of%20social%20class%20and%20maternal%20education%20for%20breast-feeding%20initiation.pdf

Evil-p

Dades wrote: »

^^ Yeah, I don't get the whole "normalising" concept.

There are two options - breast and formula. Despite the fact that people disagree to which might be better (or how better) - both are still normal. Someone feeding their baby chilli would be abnormal.

SMA are simply using marketing to plug their product.

Hmm you think feeding a human baby with powered cows milk with added vitamins and minerals is normal? It is a very poor substitute. There are hundreds of compounds in breast milk. So far formula companies have identified about 50. I think i'll stick to breastfeeding thanks.

Also someone mentioned using money to research how to successfully breastfeed? We all know how to breastfeed. Have you ever seen any other mammal not feed its baby is the normal way. We are programmed to do it as are our babies. Google Laid back breastfeeding and the Breast Crawl. We all need to tune out the noise the formula companies are making.

One of the formula ads says something about when you decide to wean put the baby onto follow on milk. Why would you ever wean your baby onto that stuff?

So I think fair play to the women who complained about the cinema! I'm sick of having formula shoved down my throat as normal!

quozl

Dades wrote: »

There are two options - breast and formula. Despite the fact that people disagree to which might be better (or how better)

This was so striking I just had to query it. What reputable organisation argues that formula feeding is better?

Or are you equating random people with no expertise on one side, versus the WHO etc on the other?

implausible

quozl wrote: »

Unfortunately he or she is likely correct about it being poorer and less well educated people being more likely to formula feed.

There are also large numbers of studies for countries outside of Ireland supporting this, particularly mother's education level.

The arguments I have seen for it are that the better educated the mother the more likely she is to know of and to appreciate the arguments in favour of breast-feeding, and additionally she is likely to be older when having children, a factor which increases the likelihood of choosing to breast-feed. Also the more likely she is to be able to access information to help her deal with any breast-feeding difficulties experienced. In Ireland we've lost a fair proportion of our expertise as many people won't be able to go to their own mothers for experience and advice. That is totally different in scandanavia for example.

Thanks for that - very interesting stuff. It goes to show that maybe the wrong demographic are being targeted by health promoters. Those of us who are in the middle-class, educated, older category are more likely to access information on breastfeeding in the first place and probably don't need the leaflets and posters.

Tayla

Evil-p wrote: »

It is a very poor substitute.

It's not a 'very poor' substitute.

January

Tayla wrote: »

It's not a 'very poor' substitute.

While it's not a "very poor" substitute, it's not an exact substitute and it doesn't change the fact that breast is best... that being said, nobody should make another person feel bad for choosing to formula feed. Breast feeding can be a very difficult thing to do and sometimes it's better for the well being of mother and baby to formula feed.

irish_eyes

those bloody breastfeeding women at it again trying to feed their babies, how dare they!

January

irish_eyes wrote: »

those bloody breastfeeding women at it again trying to feed their babies, how dare they!

Unhelpful posting is not tolerated here.

littlemissfixit

It is always a very touchy subject and people feel so passionate about this, especially when they are breasfeeding, and I dont really understand why people care so much about what other people decide to do, whatever happened to freedom of choice.
I am a breasfeeding mum, believe very strongly that it is a million times better than formula and thats why I chose it for my child. This said, I never gave a second thought about formula advertising and sponsorship, like it or not, it is business and is the world we live in. And people who choose to formula feed can check out those ads and make their choice then. The pushiness of BF advocates is not doing much good to the cause.
I think that the mentality on breasfeeding here (bf is much more common and "normal" where I come from) is established way before you see/pay attention to any formula brand ads. It needs to be addressed with the much younger people. For as long as I remember knowing about BF, I never remember myself or any peers thinking it was disgusting or weird. Yet I have heard here people as old as their mid-twenties talking about it that way???
It is not taking all formula ads off that will change that, it is education from a young age, more accessible and comfortable public places where women will feel its completely acceptable and "normal" to BF wherever they are. The more people see it happen, the more "normal" it will become!

Dades

deemark wrote: »

Dades wrote: »

^^ Yeah, I don't get the whole "normalising" concept.

It's about removing barriers to breastfeeding. Perception is a big barrier - lots of women don't do it because they think it's icky, or other people think it's weird. Bombardment with advertising for formula creates a situation where formula is equated with babies and breastfeeding becomes an alternative to the norm i.e. formula.

Barriers to breastfeeding? From the look of the replies I've received it appears there are no barriers to breastfeeding and shame on anyone who suggests the alternative is not evil. For both my kids my wife was aggressively encouraged to breastfeed (expressed eventually after a lot of tears) so I find this notion of wannabe breastfeeders being oppressed by Big Company somewhat weak.

Evil-p wrote: »

Hmm you think feeding a human baby with powered cows milk with added vitamins and minerals is normal? It is a very poor substitute. There are hundreds of compounds in breast milk. So far formula companies have identified about 50. I think I'll stick to breastfeeding thanks.

Normal for those that choose it, yes.

Evil-p wrote: »

Have you ever seen any other mammal not feed its baby is the normal way.

I've never seen any other mammal wear make up either. What's your point?

Evil-p wrote: »

One of the formula ads says something about when you decide to wean put the baby onto follow on milk. Why would you ever wean your baby onto that stuff?

You do realise that some mothers have to return to work, or simply can't or don't have the inclination to feed/express for a year?

The perceived oppression here is frightening!

wolfpawnat

deemark wrote: »

In what country?! Are you for real? I have no statistics to hand, but I can tell you with 100% certainty that it is nowhere near half!

Most of the parents not breastfeeding in Ireland is because of lazy parenting, not wanting "saggy breasts" and mothers not being able to take the time they want with their children. Breast is cheap and if the mother is healthy, the milk is better, but you cannot slate those who do not do it, even if their reasons are somewhat immature and ridiculous.

I tried breastfeeding, didn't work so I expressed for 6 weeks, and then changed over. Not everyone would have put in the exhausting effort of doing what I did, so why should they not choose to formula feed.

When I was in the hospital no time was giving to help me with the feeding, but yet people tut tut when they see formula milk.

Ayla

wolfpawnat wrote: »

Most of the parents not breastfeeding in Ireland is because of lazy parenting, not wanting "saggy breasts" and mothers not being able to take the time they want with their children. ...

I assume you have evidence to support this assertion?

Evil-p

Dades wrote: »

Barriers to breastfeeding? From the look of the replies I've received it appears there are no barriers to breastfeeding and shame on anyone who suggests the alternative is not evil. For both my kids my wife was aggressively encouraged to breastfeed (expressed eventually after a lot of tears) so I find this notion of wannabe breastfeeders being oppressed by Big Company somewhat weak.

Normal for those that choose it, yes.

I've never seen any other mammal wear make up either. What's your point?

You do realise that some mothers have to return to work, or simply can't or don't have the inclination to feed/express for a year?

The perceived oppression here is frightening!

I am not speaking hypothetically. I am working, breastfeeding mother. My child does not get formula.

The notion that human females are unable to feed their children is ridiculous. And your comparison with makeup is utterly nonsensical. I am sorry your wife did not have a good breastfeeding experience. I wouldn't wish that on anyone. But if most women breastfed instead of a small minority there would have been peer support and far more expert support in place for her.

And that breastfeeders aren't being suppressed by the big company? With all due respect Dades I think you are very ill informed about what exactly formula companies tactics are. For instance do you believe the breastfeeding help boards on all the formula companies website are genuinely trying to support breastfeeding mothers? Oh how about that incredibly misleading SMA ad stating that unless you give formula your child will be iron deficient? That ad is banned everywhere but Ireland. And don't get me started on what formula companies get up to in third world countries where they are literally responsible for babies dying.

Also promoting breastfeeding does not necessarily have to undermine a mothers choice. However formula and breastmilk are not equal and it is crazy to think they are. Breastmilk is tailor-made to suit your baby so like it or not formula is an inferior substitute. Thats not emotive, its fact.

quozl

Evil-p wrote:

One of the formula ads says something about when you decide to wean put the baby onto follow on milk. Why would you ever wean your baby onto that stuff?

Dades wrote:

You do realise that some mothers have to return to work, or simply can't or don't have the inclination to feed/express for a year?

Dades, did you miss that Evil-P specifically mentioned follow on milk?

There is no need for follow on milk. It is a product that was created to give breast milk companies something to advertise seeing as they are not allowed advertise formula milk for children under 6 months. They don't even advertise it in countries where there are no bans on advertising infant formulas.

anthonymax

Am I completely missing the point here, forgive me if I am.

I have never breastfed either of my kids. I made my own decision on that. If I went to this cinema and saw an ad for formula, I am big enough and bold enough not to be affected by it. I am not a child, and it is not an ad for toys or sweets. So I would not care what is advertised.

deemark

deemark wrote: »

In what country?! Are you for real? I have no statistics to hand, but I can tell you with 100% certainty that it is nowhere near half!

In Ireland. I am for real. And leaving aside the fact that you don't make it clear what half you mean, it's only reasonable of me to point out that if you don't have statistics to hand you can't tell anyone anything with 100% certainty.

As I said previously, about half of kids are breastfed, and half fed on formula. That's "about", so if it turns out that the ratio is 55-45 or 45-55, it doesn't alter the fact that both methods of feeding are normalised already and therefore do not require normalisation.

A source or two showing percentage rates for breastfeeding in Ireland between mid-40s and mid-50s.


http://www.rcpi.ie/Faculties/Faculty%20of%20Public%20Health%20Medicine%20Downloads/1235%20Doyle.pdf

http://www.breastfeeding.ie/policy_strategy

http://www.irishhealth.com/article.html?id=14334

http://www.oecd.org/dataoecd/30/56/43136964.pdf

deemark wrote: »

And as for your previous comment about status, I'm very confused. Surely, it should be the other way around that women who are poorer would provide their kids with free food, while those who can afford it, pay for formula. Have you a link to the research?

Why should you be confused? This is not a novel concept. Anyone who has done or read research in this area will have seen the phenomenon where poorer families spend the highest proportion of their income - and sometimes the highest sums of money - on stuff that costs more and is less healthy.

Some sources:


In Australia, the gap in duration of breastfeeding between the poorest and most well-off families widened between 1995 and 2005.

http://www.mja.com.au/public/issues/189_05_010908/ami11480_fm.html


In the USA, white women are more likely to breastfeed than black or Hispanic women, and there is a significant gap in breastfeeding rates between the lowest and highest income groups.

http://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/preview/mmwrhtml/mm5512a3.htm


In Ireland (North and South) children born to poorer women are less likely to be breastfed.

http://www.publichealth.ie/healthinequalities/healthinequalitiesontheislandstatistics

Ayla

Deleted User wrote: »

As I said previously, about half of kids are breastfed, and half fed on formula. That's "about", so if it turns out that the ratio is 55-45 or 45-55, it doesn't alter the fact that both methods of feeding are normalised already and therefore do not require normalisation.

Ugh, another breast vs bottle fight.

Anyway, just thought I'd clarify with this from the 5-yr Strategic Action Plan, 2005 :

Since the publication of the 1994 Policy there has been some improvement in the national breastfeeding rates, though these fall short of the targets set by the Policy. The most up-to-date available breastfeeding
rates at national level are 39.11% exclusive breastfeeding plus 2.47% partial breastfeeding at maternity hospital discharge in 2001 (NPRS, 2005) This is the only national data source currently available on infant feeding and there is a 3-4 year time lag between collection and availability. At present there is no national source of infant feeding data following discharge from maternity hospital/care. This makes it difficult to review breastfeeding duration rate targets or evaluate the effect on rates of community supports for breastfeeding.

And another from the Irish Medical Times, 2010:

Some 52.2 per cent of mothers indicated they had started breastfeeding but now stopped, 26.2 per cent were currently breastfeeding (with baby at six months) and 21.6 per cent never breastfed. The survey included a sample of mothers at various stages of breastfeeding from the four HSE regions.

And one more, just for fun, from the US National Library of Mecidine, Institute of Health, 1997:

Breast feeding rates in Ireland have stagnated at around 33% over the past 10 years.

Anthonymax, thank you. People don't have to behave like mindless sheep - advertisers are paid to try to convince people to buy their products, but people have the individual choice to buy into it or ignore it.

Dades

Evil-p wrote: »

I am not speaking hypothetically. I am working, breastfeeding mother. My child does not get formula.

Not everybody can have that luxury - or should be judged for not managing to do that.

Evil-p wrote: »

I am sorry your wife did not have a good breastfeeding experience. I wouldn't wish that on anyone. But if most women breastfed instead of a small minority there would have been peer support and far more expert support in place for her.

There was no lack of support - there was emotional pressure on her to do so. From every 'expert' during her 3-day hospital stay. She's be feeling the same kind of sense of failure now if she was reading this thread.

Evil-p wrote: »

And that breastfeeders aren't being suppressed by the big company? With all due respect Dades I think you are very ill informed about what exactly formula companies tactics are. For instance do you believe the breastfeeding help boards on all the formula companies website are genuinely trying to support breastfeeding mothers? Oh how about that incredibly misleading SMA ad stating that unless you give formula your child will be iron deficient? That ad is banned everywhere but Ireland. And don't get me started on what formula companies get up to in third world countries where they are literally responsible for babies dying.

I'll come clean and admit I know nothing of what goes on in the 3rd World regarding this. My point was that we have an educated population with access to this thread and a 1,000 other resources, so my contention is the amount of mothers who base their feeding decisions solely on formula marketing is next to nothing.

Evil-p wrote: »

Also promoting breastfeeding does not necessarily have to undermine a mothers choice. However formula and breastmilk are not equal and it is crazy to think they are. Breastmilk is tailor-made to suit your baby so like it or not formula is an inferior substitute. Thats not emotive, its fact.

Somewhat predictably my comments have been straw-manned to represent some view I have not put forward. I have no doubt breast-milk is better I just have an issue with the idea that breastfeeders are an oppressed minority, when from what I read here is the complete opposite seems to be true.

wolfpawnat

Ayla wrote: »

I assume you have evidence to support this assertion?

Have you asked women why they didn't. These tend to be a few the usual suspects. I laughed at a girl I know because of the saggy breasts one, seriously pathetic excuse IMHO, but a common one in the younger mums. I do not know of a survey done with reasons for not trying to BF, I am sure it should be somewhere in the records though.

There are those who try and fail (myself being one) there are those who try and succeed, and there are those who don't bother. We all have the choice, and tbh I found the pro breastfeeding brigade a pain in the behind and self esteem racking when I had to swap over. "Your clearly not doing it right" and "God, you really should have stayed at it" were not what I wanted to hear, and the Formula mums weren't driving me insane with demanding I try brand names that they did!

quozl

Dades wrote: »

Somewhat predictably my comments have been straw-manned to represent some view I have not put forward. I have no doubt breast-milk is better I just have an issue with the idea that breastfeeders are an oppressed minority, when from what I read here is the complete opposite seems to be true.

I would point out that the whole point of this thread seems to be an attack on the idea that people should stand up for breast-feeding... the only reason that anybody even needs to is because of the advertising and money on one side, and the lack of those things on the other.

Add to that that flippant comments comparing the companies to Philip Morris are not a basis for constructive debate.

I certainly haven't straw manned anything you've said and I think you could do with more research into this if you don't see any similarities between Philip Morris and Nestle for example...

I think you may be coming at this from an emotional standpoint because of how poorly you feel your wife has been treated - I can understand that, my wife and I came under a lot of pressure to formula feed as it would have suited Holles street to get our twins out of ICU slightly quicker as they're so short of room. This was even though formula fed premature babies have significantly higher rates of various very unpleasant illnesses. It was purely for their expediency as they're so over-crowded.

In all of Holles street - the busiest maternity hospital in europe this year, we were told - there were two lactation consultants. That made me pretty angry myself. There is little chance that my wife would have succeeded at breastfeeding our twins without us being able to afford to pay the 60 or so euro it was for an hour with a private lactation consultant - if we'd had no money, or less awareness of the value of breast-feeding, then the system would have pretty much ensured formula feeding.

The only assistance my wife got in all of this was from one lovely philipino nurse in the special care unit who helped her though it was no responsibility of hers. They couldn't even provide breast-pumping equipment - there were two pumps for the whole hospital IIRC and they did not have any disposible breast atatchments - so we were forced to clean and re-use one-use attachments to pump milk for infection sensitive babies.

This is the reality of my experience of breast-feeding support in Ireland anyway.

Dades

quozl wrote: »

I would point out that the whole point of this thread seems to be an attack on the idea that people should stand up for breast-feeding... the only reason that anybody even needs to is because of the advertising and money on one side, and the lack of those things on the other.

Where exactly is this attack on the idea that people should stand up for breast-feeding?

quozl wrote: »

I certainly haven't straw manned anything you've said ...

I was responding to Evil-p when I suggested this.

In all of Holles street ...

This is the reality of my experience of breast-feeding support in Ireland anyway.

It sounds to me it's not awareness that's required its logistics and more relevantly funds for Holles Street. But we can swap hospital anecdotes 'till forever and get nowhere.

Also did you not have public health nurse visits? The one that visited us also attempted to help get breastfeeding working.

quozl

Dades wrote: »

Where exactly is this attack on the idea that people should stand up for breast-feeding?

The whole point of the thread is that it is un-acceptable to complain about formula companies sponsoring cinema aimed at mothers of infants. Even though formula advertising for babies under the age of 6 months old is banned in this country and others, for good reason.

The flippant Philip Morris comment was along these lines too, and in very poor taste considering the huge numbers of deaths attributable to formula companies over the past few decades. Behaviour that they seem to be repeating in Asia today.

It sounds to me it's not awareness that's required its logistics and more relevantly funds for Holles Street.

It is both imo. Otherwise how would you explain all the research linking lower education standards and lack of awareness of the advantages of breast-feeding with lower breast-feeding rates?

But we can swap hospital anecdotes 'till forever and get nowhere.

I gave my personal experience as you had given yours...

Also did you not have public health nurse visits? The one that visited us also attempted to help get breastfeeding working.

We didn't get the babies home for a couple of weeks. Much too late to start breast-feeding then.

Sittingpretty

Whatever happened to personal choice? I fed my baby but that's MY personal choice. I was not put under any pressure by medical staff but from OTHER women. Pro breast feeders have a nasty habit of shoving THEIR advice down vulnerable women's throats nazi style. No better than formula advertising in my opinion.

Oh and you can shove your 'you are stupid if you formula feed but clever if you breastfeed' statistic up your self righteous bums! that's a cheap shot at appealing to people's ego.

Above is MY personal opinion and not directed at any person on this thread.

quozl

quozl wrote: »

The whole point of the thread is that it is un-acceptable to complain about formula companies sponsoring cinema aimed at mothers of infants.

It's generally acceptable, but that depends on how you behave and the effects of your behaviour.

How Strange

An interesting article in todays Irish Times regarding the normalisation of formula feeding in Ireland.

http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/health/2011/0809/1224302079131.html

Tayla

quozl wrote: »

In all of Holles street - the busiest maternity hospital in europe this year, we were told - there were two lactation consultants. That made me pretty angry myself. There is little chance that my wife would have succeeded at breastfeeding our twins without us being able to afford to pay the 60 or so euro it was for an hour with a private lactation consultant - if we'd had no money, or less awareness of the value of breast-feeding, then the system would have pretty much ensured formula feeding.

The only assistance my wife got in all of this was from one lovely philipino nurse in the special care unit who helped her though it was no responsibility of hers. They couldn't even provide breast-pumping equipment - there were two pumps for the whole hospital IIRC and they did not have any disposible breast atatchments - so we were forced to clean and re-use one-use attachments to pump milk for infection sensitive babies.

This is the reality of my experience of breast-feeding support in Ireland anyway.

I breastfed my first child for the first few months,

I wasn't in Holles street but in the hospital I was in the midwives were terrible for support, My little guy was so hungry, it felt like he was feeding constantly and I was very sore, I remember ringing the bell in the middle of the night out of sheer frustration crying my eyes out (baby blues) saying how he wouldn't stop feeding and she said "oh it's fine, you probably just can't do it":eek: and she offered to take him down to the nursery and give him a bottle.

I didn't breast feed my second and I found the whole experience so much calmer and I was much more relaxed, my PHN said she couldn't believe how calm, happy and relaxed the 2 of us were.


I think it's great when women breast feed but I don't think they have the right to moan at women who don't. Why do they care so much about how other people feed their babies?

How Strange

Tayla you must've had very bad experiences if you've met breastfeeding mothers who moaned at formula feeding mothers.

As I said I breastfeed my son and will do the same if/when no.2 comes along but I couldn't give two hoots how any other mother feeds her baby.

The majority of negative experiences of breastfeeding in this country seem to arise out of a complete lack of accurate information and training by health care professionals starting in the
maternity hospitals. At the first signs of difficulty they insist on feeding the baby formula.

I personally believe formula should not be given out got free in the maternity hospitals and all health care professionals should be adequately trained to encourage women to feed babies by breast at least for the first couple of days so the baby gets the colostrum. If a mother decides that she'd rather not do it then she can buy formula.

There always been an undercurrent in Ireland that breastfeeding mothers are a bit of a nuisance, militant and know it all. That's absolutely not true of any mothers I've met but as we lack any real culture of breastfeeding and the support networks that go with thst culture breastfeeding women are always willing to help and support other breastfeeding mothers or those intending to breastfeed.

I've had friends of friends whom I've never met call around to me when I've had mastitis and give me great help and support without which I'd have given up long ago.

You may have met one or two women who annoyed you with their views on breastfeeding but I've come across a few formula feeding mums who've been quite hostile and negative about my choice to breastfeed my son so it works both ways.

Tayla

How Strange wrote: »

You may have met one or two women who annoyed you with their views on breastfeeding but I've come across a few formula feeding mums who've been quite hostile and negative about my choice to breastfeed my son so it works both ways.

Oh I completely agree and I know people like that too but in regards to the original story in the thread, I can't imagine formula feeding mothers complaining about the film being sponsored by breast feeding awareness companies.

Ayla

It occurred to me that a formula company sponsoring a parent-baby movie is the very same soft advertising that EU Mom uses when they give each new mother at the maternity hospital a pack full of "goodies." Neither is done out of the goodness of the companies' hearts, and both are done to quietly & subliminally encourage their products on parents.

That said, you don't hear anyone moaning about the free pack that's given out, even though some of the things in there wouldn't be the best (ie: most natural) for the babies.

taz70

Deleted User wrote: »

About half of kids are breastfed, and about half are fed with formula. WADR, I'd say that makes them both normal.

Well, as pointed out, none of the statistics back this up. Ireland has one of the lowest - if not the lowest - rates of breastfeeding in the world.

Dades wrote: »

^^ Yeah, I don't get the whole "normalising" concept.

There are two options - breast and formula. Despite the fact that people disagree to which might be better (or how better) - both are still normal. Someone feeding their baby chilli would be abnormal.

There might be two options - well, in fact there are more than two options - but the problem is that in many people's minds they are considered equivalent. They clearly are not. Even the World Health Organisation considers formula to be the FOURTH best option for feeding infants.

Tayla wrote: »

It's not a 'very poor' substitute.

Yeah, it pretty much is. A baby is five times more likely to die when drinking formula, it's linked to SIDS, it's linked to obesity and read pretty much any "new baby" thread on a parenting formula and you'll see SO MANY questions about bottles/formula and constipation. You rarely see similar questions on breastfeeding threads.

January wrote: »

While it's not a "very poor" substitute, it's not an exact substitute and it doesn't change the fact that breast is best... that being said, nobody should make another person feel bad for choosing to formula feed. Breast feeding can be a very difficult thing to do and sometimes it's better for the well being of mother and baby to formula feed.

I don't think anyone can MAKE anyone feel bad about their choices. If they feel guilty, then they need to own their own feelings. It's actually a very rare thing that a mother can't breastfeed. But it's not a natural skill - it does have to be learned, and without the correct support in hospitals or in the family/community, it is often easier to just give up.

Sittingpretty wrote: »

Whatever happened to personal choice? I fed my baby but that's MY personal choice. I was not put under any pressure by medical staff but from OTHER women. Pro breast feeders have a nasty habit of shoving THEIR advice down vulnerable women's throats nazi style. No better than formula advertising in my opinion.

Oh and you can shove your 'you are stupid if you formula feed but clever if you breastfeed' statistic up your self righteous bums! that's a cheap shot at appealing to people's ego.

Above is MY personal opinion and not directed at any person on this thread.

Wow - so someone who cares about the health of infants is equated to those who are responsible for the slaughter of millions. Perhaps in future you could think of a more sophisticated insult. Oh, so I guess the last line means no offence should be taken? Well, as someone who lost relatives in the Holocaust - I take very.deep.offence.

Overall, I find the whole issue of "freedom of choice" really problematic because those that are so favour of feeding their kids formula are probably completely unaware of what is actually in their child's "food". It's even difficult to find a list of ingredients online on the manufacturers own websites!

And what about your child's right to the food designed to best support their growth and development? Why fob them off with the food designed to grow and develop bovines? Would we be as willing to feed our kids gorilla milk or pigs milk? Both of these are a hell of a lot closer genetically than cows!!!

And in order to try to approximate breastmilk - well, the constituents that they even know about - formula manufacturers have to extract particular compounds from fungus using neurotoxins that make their way into the formula. Is this honestly the stuff you "choose" to feed your kids? It's been said before, most people spend more time researching the nursery decor or the buggy/transport system than they do their own child's food.

Now, this is not to say those parents don't care - OF COURSE THEY DO. But they are led through marketing and the medical industry in this country to believe that formula is an equal substitute - and hey, if it's marketed for kids, it must be OK.... right? Well, no actually. It's an inferior product derived in a quite dangerous way.

I for one want my kid to have proper nutrition - not inferior substitutes - and I despair for the the kiddies who parents think breastfeeding is yukky or they worry about their boobs.