I.T. level 7 Grad prospects

joett

Hi. I am just wondering what are the prospects of finding a job with a level 7 degree in software development at the moment?
Is a level 8 degree seen as the norm for a grad job?
I ask because I am thinking of whether or not to go back and do 4th year

srsly78

If you can demonstrate that you are a really good developer (by showing off lots of little projects you have done) then noone will really care about your degree.

Feckless Rogue

^ Just wondering is that the general concensus among folks here?

I'm on the verge of starting a computing degree but I strongly feel that I will learn more directly from books/opencourseware etc. I know exactly what areas I want to focus on, and I feel that if I just immerse myself in it (and work on a few projects as you suggest) that I will come out with more practical knowledge.

srsly78

Anything that gives you an advantage is to be welcomed. There are lots of people out there that have lots of self-taught experience (aforementioned small projects) AND degrees (or even masters). We all have to compete.

But yes, programming is one of the few areas where you can actually train yourself up pretty well. Still there is no substitute for having a mentor really. An unpaid internship would teach you a hell of a lot more than a year in college. Note: a proper internship, not some stupid coffee making exploitation.

p

Feckless Rogue wrote: »

I'm on the verge of starting a computing degree but I strongly feel that I will learn more directly from books/opencourseware etc. I know exactly what areas I want to focus on, and I feel that if I just immerse myself in it (and work on a few projects as you suggest) that I will come out with more practical knowledge.

I think it's a bit naive to think that you know all the things you need to learn. Doing a degree will challenge you in other areas that bore you, or you don't know about, as well as generally broadening your world outlook and life experience.

Compliment a degree with your own learning and you'll be better than doing either on their own.

To the OP - unless you've a really good reason not to do the 4th year i'd stick it out. Yes, as others have said it might not make a difference in the end, but odds are it'll be better to finish off the last year.

Feckless Rogue

Reading back over the OP I think I may have derailed this thread unintentionally as I misunderstood their question to start with. Sorry about that.

@ srsly78 point taken re getting the edge on competition. My reason for looking at it in the first place was to get out of a career rut so that makes sense to me.

@ p actually I have a mate doing a comp sci. masters who echoes your sentiment re being challenged in other areas. In a way I just have so much I want to learn and generally learn better going at my own pace, although I imagine there's a good deal of studying on the side that goes on alongside the coursework anyway...

I'm just jittery about committing the 3/4 years I guess Move along, nothing to see here!

p

What if you're own pace is too slow?
For me, college was more about a place which gave me the opportunity to learn, rather than explicitly always being taught. I certainly got pushed to do things I didn't like which (for the most part) i'm glad I experienced, even if I didn't think it was relevant at the time.

Also, for many people, college is an amazing life experience. I made some amazing life-long friendships, as well as generally maturing as a personal, by being involved in lots of things that it's not so easy to get otherwise. That alone was an education worth having for me.

RealistSpy

Level 7 is good if you have experience and mini project to back it up. You will get some companies that require a Level 8 and will filter anything less.

Just remember that college is to teach you the basics and how you develop from there is up to you. I found myself spending hours upon hours on my own work. So I took a year out for work experience which I didn't get so I worked on more projects and learning more languages.

Now I am going to start my 3rd year fairly confident with my skills.

Evil Phil

I've worked with graduates (I'll include post-grad diplomas in this) and non-graduates without formal education in software development - those who've received an education are, the majority of the time, better developers who are easier to work with.

Go back and do 4th year, get your honours degree, you'll need it and make more money for having one. I've blogged about this in the past and I feel very strongly about this.

-Trek-

srsly78 wrote: »

Anything that gives you an advantage is to be welcomed. There are lots of people out there that have lots of self-taught experience (aforementioned small projects) AND degrees (or even masters). We all have to compete.

But yes, programming is one of the few areas where you can actually train yourself up pretty well. Still there is no substitute for having a mentor really. An unpaid internship would teach you a hell of a lot more than a year in college. Note: a proper internship, not some stupid coffee making exploitation.

+1 to this, I went for an internship during my summer hols, and I wouldn't be joking when I say that what I have learned in the past two months has been unbelievable compared to what I was learning in college. So if you can get a placement (a good one) then go for it.

matrim

I assume a level 7 degree is basically a diploma (I don't know the terminology so someone can correct me). One thing that having the "full" degree might help with is getting past the HR stage. I.e. HR person puts out a list of requirements one of which is usually a Degree (sometimes even a 2.1 or higher), and even though a perfect person might have a diploma and relevant personal projects they can miss out on the chance to interview with the manager / tech people because they don't meet a HR requirement.

Tom Dunne

A Level 7 degree is equivalent to a diploma in old money - the new term for it is "Ordinary Level Degree". A Level 8 is an honours degree.

Personally, I would think the extra year is worth it. Remember, a degree is not just about what you learn, but what you do - as in, projects, meeting deadlines, teamwork, etc.

Evil Phil

-Trek- wrote: »

I went for an internship during my summer hols, and I wouldn't be joking when I say that what I have learned in the past two months has been unbelievable compared to what I was learning in college. So if you can get a placement (a good one) then go for it.

I have to wonder what would you have learned if you weren't attending your course. How successful would that internship have been if you weren't going to college? Not very is what I'd suggest.

Degrees are so much more than getting yourself past the HR team, it is the corner stone of your education and your career. It's a shame that graduates don't take more pride in what they've achieved.

-Trek-

Oh I wasn't disagreeing about the importance of the degree, I'm going for that, one way or another, I have had plenty of my CV's binned because it didn't say degree at the top despite the number of hours I put in on my own and minor courses I attended. Absolutely agree, the college course and the internship complemented each other, as I wouldn't have got it if it weren't for the college course , the point I was making (maybe it wasn't for this thread) was that you cant beat real life experience.

8k2q1gfcz9s5d4

srsly78 wrote: »

If you can demonstrate that you are a really good developer (by showing off lots of little projects you have done) then noone will really care about your degree.

depends on where you want to work, and what technology you want to work with.
there are a lot of level 8 graduates around at the moment. Without the honours degree a most of the big companies wont even look at you, as for most of them its a minimun requirement. Bear in mind, if you get a job with a level 7 degree, you will be paid less. If you look at irishjobs.ie / monster.ie, 5 years ago they were mainky looking for level 7 / level 8 degrees, not its switching to level 8 / level 9.

edit: doing little projects are a great help! it gives you things to talk about in an interview

Feckless Rogue wrote: »

I'm on the verge of starting a computing degree but I strongly feel that I will learn more directly from books/opencourseware etc. I know exactly what areas I want to focus on, and I feel that if I just immerse myself in it (and work on a few projects as you suggest) that I will come out with more practical knowledge.

not a bad idea. but I would always suggest getting a level 8 degree

srsly78

Big companies are fscking ****e to work for anyway. I have no IT qualification, doesn't cause any problems (got a physics degree instead).

8k2q1gfcz9s5d4

srsly78 wrote: »

Big companies are fscking ****e to work for anyway

like any company, large or small there are pros and cons. I work for a large multinational, with a few hundread developers. lots of red tape and everything has to be done by the book. But I get to work with lots of different technologies, all my training is paid for, and lots of benefits.

A physics degree would not cover any aspect of software engineering, which is very important for a lot of jobs.