NCT - Taking the p!ss

johndaman66

Was just on the phone to my cousin yesterday. In the last few weeks he bought a 2001 car on which the NCT had expired in sometime around mid April 2011. He done a few very small bits and pieces to the car and put it through the NCT during the week. It passed first time but....he only got until April 2012.

I understand that the car is 10 years old and on that basis he would only be expecting 1 year if it was due to be NCT'd any time after the new rule came in for cars 10 years old and older (commenced in June of this year I believe). My issue is the fact that his car was was due to be tested in April and if it was tested then he would have got a 2 year test...then NCT come along and backdate tests to registration dates (to their advantage I might add). Following their own logic should he not have got a valid NCT cert up until April 2013 I'd be thinking?

I think I'd have being raging if it were me because of who were dealing with but he said he just accepted it. I'm sure that after making that comment some of ye are very eager to jump up on yer high horse.... I used to think that people who complained about NCT were only looking for an excuse to moan but over the last while my eyes have being opened. They failed me on a rusty brake line that at worst could be described as tarnished and it was sound. Some emrey cloth and brasso and they pass it...what the fu*k is that all about?

Then a friend who they failed on a worn steering rack, took it out, sanded it and painted it and whacked it back in again (even though I wouldn't agree with what he done if the steering rack needed replacing)...low and behold it passed second time round.

Have heard of a few more incidents that amazed me and which I wont go into as its not the real purpose of my thread. Does anyone know if my cousin has any recourse against NCT?

Tigger

Words escape me

Nonoperational

So he had the NCT done after the new rule came in and got a 1 year cert? Don't see your point to be honest.

flyingsnail

From the NCT FAQ

a vehicle with a 1st registration date or year of manufacture in 2001 or earlier may fall due for test in 2012 (marked 'X*' in the table above). It falls due in 2012 if it has been tested after the 1st June 2011 (the date of introduction of annual testing for vehicles 10 years and older), or if it is overdue for a test from prior periods.

I read that as, any car ten years or older tested after 1st June 2011 will only get a 1 year cert regardless of whether it was due a test before that date or not. The correct length of cert seems to have been issued.

johndaman66

gpf101 wrote: »

So he had the NCT done after the new rule came in and got a 1 year cert? Don't see your point to be honest.

My point is gpf101 that NCT backdate tests to registration date...fair enough....they did this in his case and gave him less than a years test....BUT, at the anniversary of his registration date (i.e. mid April 2011) he would have received a 2 year test. Hence following NCT's own logic I firmly believe he should have being granted a valid NCT cert up until April 2013.

You follow?

Guy:Incognito

johndaman66 wrote: »

My point is gpf101 that NCT backdate tests to registration date...fair enough....they did this in his case and gave him less than a years test....BUT, at the anniversary of his registration date (i.e. mid April 2011) he would have received a 2 year test. Hence following NCT's own logic I firmly believe he should have being granted a valid NCT cert up until April 2013.

You follow?

He would have if it was NCT'd on time, but it wasnt. Theres nothing hidden or underhanded going on, its all clearly laid out on the site.

corktina

i think you'll be in a minority...

if he only bought it in the past few weeks, he should really have thought of this before buying it if its an issue. The rules changed 2 months ago and the change was flagged long before that.

Nonoperational

Ya I understand where your coming from. I've a feeling it's a battle you'd never win though. Probably not worth the hassle in going after it.

johndaman66

flyingsnail wrote: »

From the NCT FAQ



I read that as, any car ten years or older tested after 1st June 2011 will only get a 1 year cert regardless of whether it was due a test before that date or not. The correct length of cert seems to have been issued.

That seems to be the rule so flyingsnail but by heck is it bloody well flawed in their own favour it would seem to me.

Guy:Incognito

johndaman66 wrote: »

That seems to be the rule so flyingsnail but by heck is it bloody well flawed in their own favour it would seem to me.

Its not flawed in anyones favour if people do the test when its supposed to be done. The idea is that people do it on time and not drive around for months and years with no NCT. When its tied to the registration date it stops people getting an extra 3 or 6 months before bothering with the test.

Buffman

johndaman66 wrote: »

Does anyone know if my cousin has any recourse against NCT?

No, they're only doing what the RSA are telling them. They had to pick a date for the 10 year rule to start and it just happened to be June 1st. I won't get started on the BS rule itself as it's been done to death here already.

I see where he's coming from, had he done the test on May 31st he would have gotten a 2 year NCT. The dates just worked against him.

johndaman66

Guy:Incognito wrote: »

He would have if it was NCT'd on time, but it wasnt. Theres nothing hidden or underhanded going on, its all clearly laid out on the site.

Clearly laid out in the site it may be Guy:Incognito, thats fair enough. My own car was tested in December of last year and I got the thick end of two years (as it was slightly over due at the time). I hadn't really thought about this aspect of it until cousin mentioned it to me as I didn't need to...there is no doubt in my mind that its not clearly diplayed on the site, so I wont doubt you or disagree with you on that one. But I will disagree with you when you say its not underhanded as I firmly believe it is underhanded.

msg11

So cars before 2001 only get a cert for 1 year ? That's madness, if the price was 25euro for 1 year I wouldn't mind, but I can imagine that this is not the case and it's a full 50euro and considering a death trap is a death trap no matter if it's 07 , 01, 96 if it's not looked after it's not looked after.

johndaman66

corktina wrote: »

if he only bought it in the past few weeks, he should really have thought of this before buying it if its an issue. The rules changed 2 months ago and the change was flagged long before that.

From the way he was talking it didn't really bother him too much either way and I don't think he'd even given it much thought before he took the car for testing...he just seemed to be well chuffed it passed first time!

Just saying it would have being something that would have annoyed me...not that I would have even thought about it until and unless I was in the situation.;)

flyingsnail

johndaman66 wrote: »

..there is no doubt in my mind that its not clearly diplayed on the site, so I wont doubt you or disagree with you on that one.

I'm sorry but from the nct home page it takes one click and 10 seconds to find that information

But I will disagree with you when you say its not underhanded as I firmly believe it is underhanded.

How, if the car had the test done when it was supposed to then your problem would not exist.

tfitzgerald

Another tax to get money out of us anyone with a ten year old car would not be exactly flush with it in the first place if they tested the car right then every two years would be enough

johndaman66

Guy:Incognito wrote: »

Its not flawed in anyones favour if people do the test when its supposed to be done. The idea is that people do it on time and not drive around for months and years with no NCT. When its tied to the registration date it stops people getting an extra 3 or 6 months before bothering with the test.

Thats one way of looking at it Guy:Incognito and thats fair enough if it did what it says on the tin. But the cynic in me looks at this from another point of view also and I see it as NCT pulling fast one(s). Think too about the 1,000's of cars sitting in garage forecourts (as had being the case with my cousins) and are not on the road.

Aside from this, yes its peoples duty to ensure their car is tested on time (if on the road) but should An Gardai not be policing this as opossed to NCT manipulating their rules in their own favour.

What about the guy who decides theres only 5 or 6 months left in his car or is leaving the country and doesn't give a toss so keeps on driving for the final few months with no NCT? Their rule of back-dating tests wont bother him

Mar4ix

same happen to me. 96 car. Fail test before 1 june,and re-test was on 1st june,which she passed,and got cert only til 1april 2012. What a joke. It is only 10 month cert. Wtf!!!

johndaman66

msg11 wrote: »

So cars before 2001 only get a cert for 1 year ? That's madness, if the price was 25euro for 1 year I wouldn't mind, but I can imagine that this is not the case and it's a full 50euro and considering a death trap is a death trap no matter if it's 07 , 01, 96 if it's not looked after it's not looked after.

And considering too that they very very often fail you on something silly, (sometimes on something important, no doubt about that, but they are known to miss something very bloody important at other times) so you will very often end up paying a retest fee too.

Totally see your point. There are 3 or 4 year old cars out there too with serious flaws or potentially serious flaws. NCT would seem to be following the general logic in this country that once a car hits 10 years old it automatically becomes a death trap, before that its generally grand.

Sorry now but to echo what I said earlier not too long ago I felt that people who complained about NCT were only moaners looking for an excuse to rant on. But my experience of NCT of late has learned me quite the opposite.

johndaman66

flyingsnail wrote: »

I'm sorry but from the nct home page it takes one click and 10 seconds to find that information

Not disagreeing with you on that one flyingsnail. I'm sure they have it clearly displayed on their site. Apologies if the post you quoted me on was a little unclear in the point I was making

flyingsnail wrote: »

How, if the car had the test done when it was supposed to then your problem would not exist.

Firstly its not my problem rather my cousins problem, a problem that he does not seem too fussed about if it is indeed a problem to him! Even though I can sort of accept them back-dating tests (even though the cynic in me says something different) I do genuinely feel that they are manipulating the rule in their own favour (in my cousins case) for reasons I mentioned in my opening post.

It actually wouldn't phase me too much if the NCT were a reputable and competent firm...but a lot of us have seen the Prime Time investiates program or heard about it and based on my experience and stories I heard of them of late a lot of their testers seemingly only show up in body, leaving their mind and common sense at home

Yawns

They are not manipulating the back dating rule in their favour. It has to be done on the registration dates because other wise you will get an awful lot of people not getting the NCT done for say 3 - 4 months after it was due. If it was tied to reg date, then those people would get a cert for 2 years + the extra time elapsed that they drove after due.

This happens already with motor tax as it stands, some people let it lapse up to the extra month or two, then renew tax for 3 months declaring period of non use for in between and getting away with it. Then they will do it again when the 3 months valid tax is up.

That is why it's tied in to when the car was first registered. Just happened your cousin couldn't get it tested before the new rule so was issued with a 1yr cert only. He has accepted it and moved on.

I understand your point of view that he should have got a 2 year cert as it would have been back dated to the first registration date but maybe the computer will only issue 1 year certs from now on for all cars over the age limit. Perhaps there's an appeal process whereby he can get a 2 year cert but I certainly wouldn't think so. I would feel the same as you no doubt if it was my car. I too would have expected a 2 year cert as the date for it falls before the new rule came into effect.

johndaman66

Yawns wrote: »

They are not manipulating the back dating rule in their favour. It has to be done on the registration dates because other wise you will get an awful lot of people not getting the NCT done for say 3 - 4 months after it was due. If it was tied to reg date, then those people would get a cert for 2 years + the extra time elapsed that they drove after due.

This happens already with motor tax as it stands, some people let it lapse up to the extra month or two, then renew tax for 3 months declaring period of non use for in between and getting away with it. Then they will do it again when the 3 months valid tax is up.

That is why it's tied in to when the car was first registered. Just happened your cousin couldn't get it tested before the new rule so was issued with a 1yr cert only. He has accepted it and moved on.

I understand your point of view that he should have got a 2 year cert as it would have been back dated to the first registration date but maybe the computer will only issue 1 year certs from now on for all cars over the age limit. Perhaps there's an appeal process whereby he can get a 2 year cert but I certainly wouldn't think so. I would feel the same as you no doubt if it was my car. I too would have expected a 2 year cert as the date for it falls before the new rule came into effect.

Fair enough on back-dating the test to registration date. Not to sound like a broken record but I do kind of accept that Yawns, even though my inner cynic views it from a slightly different viewpoint for my aformentioned reasons.

But in my cousins case thats where I firmly believe they are manipulating the rule in their own favour, I vigorously stand over that and glad to hear that you at least acknowledge my point of view in this regard. To be quite honest I wouldn't be as quick to jump to the conclusion that their computer will only issue a one year cert as in my cousins case, far from it in fact. Without knowing a hell of a lot about computer technology I'm sure they would not be too complicated in changing the settings so that the computer issues the cert up until April, 2013 as in his case or likewise for people in a similar situation to him. Sorry but it just smacks of the NCT pulling a fast one to me I'm afraid

slimjimmc

johndaman66 wrote: »

My point is gpf101 that NCT backdate tests to registration date...fair enough....they did this in his case and gave him less than a years test....BUT, at the anniversary of his registration date (i.e. mid April 2011) he would have received a 2 year test. Hence following NCT's own logic I firmly believe he should have being granted a valid NCT cert up until April 2013.

You follow?

But the thing is they don't, the NCT was and is never ever backdated. The NCT cert is only valid from the date the test was passed until the next due date. The next due date is calculated from the registration date in accordance with the rules in force at the time of the test. All NCT rules are backed up by statute, so whatever law is in force at the time the test was done is the one that gets applied. Your cousin was unfortunate in that he failed to present the car for testing before the deadline but that's his mistake, he was not cheated out of an extra year. The correct term was applied.

johndaman66

slimjimmc wrote: »

But the thing is they don't, the NCT was and is never ever backdated. The NCT cert is only valid from the date the test was passed until the next due date. The next due date is calculated from the registration date in accordance with the rules in force at the time of the test. All NCT rules are backed up by statute, so whatever law is in force at the time the test was done is the one that gets applied. Your cousin was unfortunate in that he failed to present the car for testing before the deadline but that's his mistake, he was not cheated out of an extra year. The correct term was applied.

Fair enough slimjimmc my terminology was most likely incorrect when I said they backdated his test. But I dont buy into the rest of your explanation at all. It doesn't cut it with me Im afraid and I still stand by my protest that NCT are manipulating the rule book to suit themselves...

slimjimmc

Don't believe me if you like, but it's hard to dispute what's written in a law which has been in force since 4th Jan 2010.

S.I. No. 567/2009 — Road Traffic (National Car Test) Regulations 2009

(2) The test due dates for a vehicle mentioned in paragraph (1) are:

(a) from the commencement of these Regulations until 31 May 2011, the anniversary dates mentioned in paragraph (1) and each subsequent biennial of those dates, and

(b) from 1 June 2011, the anniversary dates mentioned in paragraph (1) and—

(i) from the tenth anniversary of first registration of the vehicle, each subsequent anniversary of those dates, and

(ii) in any other case, each subsequent biennial of those dates.

The law clearly mandates that from 1st June 2011 any certificate issued for a 10yr old car will only be valid until the following year.
Your cousin's car was 10 yrs old before the 1st June 2011 and the test was done after that date, so it meets both requirements of 2(b).
You can protest all you like but you'd be wrong and wasting your time.

nxbyveromdwjpg

Brought in a car from the UK before, first time I NCT'd it I was informed afterwards that I'd have to NCT it again 3 months later (it passed) due to them back dating it. Backdating the NCT makes no sense except as a money spinner.

Jesus Shaves

Guy:Incognito wrote: »

He would have if it was NCT'd on time, but it wasnt. Theres nothing hidden or underhanded going on, its all clearly laid out on the site.

not true, my car was registered in march 2001, car was tested late(july 2011), test isnt up until march 2013

Tigger

nm wrote: »

Brought in a car from the UK before, first time I NCT'd it I was informed afterwards that I'd have to NCT it again 3 months later (it passed) due to them back dating it. Backdating the NCT makes no sense except as a money spinner.

must have been more than 3 months as you can do the test 3 months early

that rulke was fixed and now its the date of first red in ireland (much fairer)

corktina

Mar4ix wrote: »

same happen to me. 96 car. Fail test before 1 june,and re-test was on 1st june,which she passed,and got cert only til 1april 2012. What a joke. It is only 10 month cert. Wtf!!!

why do you think there was a slot availalbe on 1 june? cos everyone else booked an appointment before that date. (They might have tipped you off though!)

bazz26

Op, I really don't see where your complaint is to be honest. This new 10 year rule was all over the media since last year, it's not something the NCTS just introduced at the drop of a hat or quitely slipped it in there to catch people out.

Also you can get your NCT done 3 months before it's due date (6 months if it's the car's first NCT). Getting it done 2 or 3 months after it's due date means you get a reduced time to the next due date and rightly so imo. Why should someone who didn't bother getting it done on time or for any other reason get a full year or two from that date? If this was the way then most people would simply leave it on the long finger or not bother at all.

I always get my cars NCT'd around 3 or 6 months before their due date so that I can maximise the cert from that date plus the 2 years to the next test due date.

johndaman66

slimjimmc wrote: »

Don't believe me if you like, but it's hard to dispute what's written in a law which has been in force since 4th Jan 2010.

S.I. No. 567/2009 — Road Traffic (National Car Test) Regulations 2009



The law clearly mandates that from 1st June 2011 any certificate issued for a 10yr old car will only be valid until the following year.
Your cousin's car was 10 yrs old before the 1st June 2011 and the test was done after that date, so it meets both requirements of 2(b).
You can protest all you like but you'd be wrong and wasting your time.

You know slimjimmc that sometimes legislation is drafted incorrectly. It wouldn't be the first time and sure as hell won't be the last time either. You say I'm wrong, I say I'm right so at best I'll agree to differ with you on that one. I wont be pursuing my protests elsewhere as it wasn't my car, I genuinely have enough draws on my time at the moment and enough stress for that matter! Suffice to say that the likes of this further diminishes my respect for NCTS as an organisation.

What about this slimjimmc: -

darokane wrote: »

not true, my car was registered in march 2001, car was tested late(july 2011), test isnt up until march 2013

Are NCTS following the relevant statute here? In fact are they not breaking the law by granting darokane a NCT cert up until March 2013? All this carry on just smacks of coruptness to me and my opinion of an organisation whom I previously did not have a lot of respect for has been further diminished.