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David Norris - Post-Revelations

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    #452
    Pompey Magnus
    Registered Users Posts: 5,406 ✭✭✭Pompey Magnus


    ixoy wrote:
    So a politics thread where half the people are saying she shouldn't resign is your basis?

    You asked where the calls for their resignation were, I did a quick search and within a few minutes found some. If you want to do an in-depth search to show some heterosexual conspiracy of silence when it comes to non-gay rape then you can do your own homework, you asked so I gave you a start.


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    #453
    Show Time
    Registered Users Posts: 1,637 ✭✭✭Show Time


    minidazzler wrote: »
    I'd still vote for him, simply because I have no moral objection to what the guy he was supporting did. A 15 year old can decide on their own accord to have sex. It wasn't sexual abuse, it was sex.
    In a spots coaching capacity i work with 14-16 year old lads and most of them can't even look after their training kit, So if you think for one second kids of that age can make important decisions about sex and who to have it with then you are off your trolley.
    A 40 year old man having sex with a 15 year old child of either sex is abuse plain and simple and it does not matter if the man is the Bishop of Rome, Micky Mouse or David Norris ex fella.


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    #454
    CramCycle
    Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 24,873 Mod ✭✭✭✭CramCycle


    @mindazzler: are you 15? or have you recently had sex with someone who is when deep down you know you shouldn't have because of their immaturity in such matters?


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    #455
    cosanostra
    Registered Users Posts: 878 ✭✭✭cosanostra


    annascott wrote: »
    I still think that the reason so many are jumping on this 'defending a rapist' bandwagon is because it is linked with a homosexual relationship. When referring to the 'rapist' that Mr Norris was defending , the media conveniently forget to add the word 'statutory'. This was not an attack or an abduction but an encounter with a willing participant. Yes, legally the boy was underage but as with heterosexual encounters, I think that the term 'rape' should be taken out of the equation. It can be quite difficult to tell the difference between a 15 and an 18 year old. Or a 13 and a 16 year old. If it was some guy with a reputation for the ladies, things would be different. After all, most don't think any worse of Roman Polanski or Billy Wyman.

    Considering the age of consent in Israel is 16 it would be even more difficult to tell the difference between a 15 and 16 year old!

    I would still vote for Norris even with this "controversy" but its his handling of the whole thing that would turn me against him, he's just shy'd away from it!


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    #456
    Lone Stone
    Registered Users Posts: 3,405 ✭✭✭Lone Stone


    Well when i first heard he was running for president i thought it was great finally some one who i would want to be our president, but this really has changed thing's sadly im now not sure if i would vote for him.


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    #457
    Min
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,550 ✭✭✭Min


    David Norris will hold a press conference today, wonder if he finally gives up. It was said on Radio 1 if he doesn't give up his campaign that more embarrassing letters will be released that were sent to Israel and that he should give up now as things will only get worse for him.


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    #458
    Warper
    Registered Users Posts: 5,377 ✭✭✭Warper


    I was one of those that was going to vote for him but the recent revelations have changed my mind. Anyone that condones a 45 year old man raping a 15 year old boy is sick and he should not only withdraw as a presidential candidate but he should also resign from political life. His career is now finished.


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    #459
    Hannibal Smith
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,893 ✭✭✭Hannibal Smith


    The law is the law. You cannot pick which laws you are going to break and not expect to face consequences. Whatever your 'opinion' is of statutory rape, it is still illegal. Trevor Sargent tried to interfere with the legal process by writing a letter to Gardai for the benefit of a constituent over a far less serious situation. He had to resign over it.

    I don't know how David Norris thought writing these letters wouldn't come back to haunt him. He knows how seriously damaging writing ANYTHING on Seanad or Government note paper could be, least of all for a crime of Statutory Rape, particularly when it's an effort to persuade the judicial process.

    Maybe Norris is being judged too harshly on the back of what's gone on with the Church, but I don't see how we could have a president who has appealed for leniency for a person who had sex with a minor.


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    #460
    MOSSAD
    Closed Accounts Posts: 317 ✭✭MOSSAD


    starbelgrade wrote: »
    Even if he received the majority of the Dublin vote, he would have gotten very few votes outside Dublin.
    Disagree, many "down-the-country people" intended to vote for him, because of his track record on human rights and personal bravery.

    In fact I'd venture to suggest that for at least 1/2 of the irish male population voting for norris would be a way of vicariously expressing their latent homosexuality:D


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    #461
    XxMCRxBabyxX
    Moderators, Education Moderators Posts: 7,439 Mod ✭✭✭✭XxMCRxBabyxX


    My name is URL wrote: »
    So would you still consider him as a credible candidate, or are the latest developments just too serious to overlook?

    Honestly I never did. He is far too arrogant with far too big a mouth to ever make a good president.

    I can respect all the good things he's done but I just feel the two above qualities plus the latest revelations which show quite a lack of judgement could only end in trouble for Norris.

    Regarding the letters, just because "everyone else did it" does not mean he should just be forgiven. Didn't we all get the "if everyone else jumped off a cliff" speech when we were kids?! It was a very bad decision on Norris's part and at the very lease we need to see a proper apology for it

    And is it that hard for people to leave his sexuality out of this. It really is completely irrelevant and just overshadows both his campaign and all the controversies that have come out of it


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    #462
    flahavaj
    Closed Accounts Posts: 21,235 ✭✭✭✭flahavaj


    No only should this put and end to his running for President he should have to resign as a Senator and public representative also.


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    #463
    bernardo mac
    Registered Users Posts: 903 ✭✭✭bernardo mac


    As much as I admire David Norris I decided, prior to these revelations that I would not give him my No1. Well, it's his decision whether to continue as a candidate.I don't think he should stand now.What he did was unwise and most unfortunate and not befitting of one who aspires to hold office as President.I do hope that he remains active in public life.He has done invaluable work for this country and its people.There are many,unlike David Norris,who have served in public office merely for personal gain and to satisfy a vainglorious lust for power and privilege


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    #464
    Magic Beans
    Closed Accounts Posts: 329 ✭✭Magic Beans


    Who could ever have predicted that having homsexual sex with a goat herder would cause such a stink?


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    #465
    CramCycle
    Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 24,873 Mod ✭✭✭✭CramCycle


    Min wrote: »
    David Norris will hold a press conference today, wonder if he finally gives up. It was said on Radio 1 if he doesn't give up his campaign that more embarrassing letters will be released that were sent to Israel and that he should give up now as things will only get worse for him.

    Who said that? If there are letters they should be released, if someone is holding them back and they are also running they too should step down in my opinion.

    I love this country but sometimes I absolutely f'in hate it.


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    #466
    CramCycle
    Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 24,873 Mod ✭✭✭✭CramCycle


    Hannibal Smith wrote: »
    Trevor Sargent tried to interfere with the legal process by writing a letter to Gardai for the benefit of a constituent over a far less serious situation.

    He didn't have to but he felt it was the right thing to do, he even released a statement at the time.

    Probably a better person than any running, wish he had went for it instead.


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    #467
    Teyla Emmagan
    Registered Users Posts: 5,641 ✭✭✭Teyla Emmagan


    I've spent the weekend listening to the radio and reading about this issue and have decided that if Norris gets nominated then I'll still vote for him.

    I think he made a stupid decision here, but it was an understandable one. I don't think he should have, but I can see why he did, plead clemancy for someone he loved - given the situation, and the fact the sex was consensual. I don't think the headed notepaper is a big deal either - Irish politicians have long used their office to try and influence our own judiciary and that of other nations. I'm also sure each of the other candidates for the Aras probably have an equally stupid error of judgement in their past, but I think Norris is being targeted unfairly here, and that annoys me.

    I think the timing of this revelation is very unfortunate given we're all hyper-sensitive about Cloyne and I hope we don't lose a good man over that.

    I don't expect my president to be perfect, just human and willing to give their all to represent this country. I still think David Norris is the best current choice that we have.


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    #468
    Sir Oxman
    Closed Accounts Posts: 8,492 ✭✭✭Sir Oxman


    Joe Jackson ('journalist') is saying on the Norris for pres FB page that a message he has received makes him believe that Norris will not be withdrawing from seeking nomination
    <salt pinch needed>


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    #469
    keano_afc
    Registered Users Posts: 8,711 ✭✭✭keano_afc


    I wouldnt have voted for him in a million years anyway as I think he has some pretty scary views on pedastry and paeodphilia. I'm just glad these revelations came out before he was on the ticket. Would have embarrassed the country if this had of come to light in 6 months or so.


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    #470
    yutta
    Closed Accounts Posts: 429 ✭✭yutta


    Teyla Emmagan wrote: »
    I've spent the weekend listening to the radio and reading about this issue and have decided that if Norris gets nominated then I'll still vote for him.

    I think he made a stupid decision here, but it was an understandable one. I don't think he should have, but I can see why he did, plead clemancy for someone he loved - given the situation, and the fact the sex was consensual. I don't think the headed notepaper is a big deal either - Irish politicians have long used their office to try and influence our own judiciary and that of other nations. I'm also sure each of the other candidates for the Aras probably have an equally stupid error of judgement in their past, but I think Norris is being targeted unfairly here, and that annoys me.

    I think the timing of this revelation is very unfortunate given we're all hyper-sensitive about Cloyne and I hope we don't lose a good man over that.

    I don't expect my president to be perfect, just human and willing to give their all to represent this country. I still think David Norris is the best current choice that we have.

    So you're a supporter of a child buggery supporter then?


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    #471
    Orizio
    Registered Users Posts: 9,460 ✭✭✭Orizio


    yutta wrote: »
    So you're a supporter of a child buggery supporter then?

    Looks like the culchie media has brainwashed you too.


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    #472
    Teyla Emmagan
    Registered Users Posts: 5,641 ✭✭✭Teyla Emmagan


    yutta wrote: »
    So you're a supporter of a child buggery supporter then?

    I think you're making assumptions about the nature of the sex involved there that you can't possibly support. Nice attempt at sensationalism though.


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    #473
    yutta
    Closed Accounts Posts: 429 ✭✭yutta


    Teyla Emmagan wrote: »
    I think you're making assumptions about the nature of the sex involved there that you can't possibly support. Nice attempt at sensationalism though.

    Please elaborate.


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    #474
    K-9
    Registered Users Posts: 43,311 ✭✭✭✭K-9


    ixoy wrote: »
    So a politics thread where half the people are saying she shouldn't resign is your basis?


    I did wonder if people were so up in arms against similar cases in the past - some of those threads linked above certainly don't convince me otherwise.
    If people here are calling for his resignation, would they have been equally as vocal in those other incidents?

    I thought we'd gone past the "they're are all as bad as each other" reasoning in politics.

    I'd agree with O'Toole's piece, there are contradictions here definitely, but sometimes an example has to be made to make a point or otherwise we keep on making excuses for inappropriate representations and nothing changes.

    Mad Men's Don Draper : What you call love was invented by guys like me, to sell nylons.



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    #475
    Happyman42
    Closed Accounts Posts: 18,066 ✭✭✭✭Happyman42


    gambiaman wrote: »
    Joe Jackson ('journalist') is saying on the Norris for pres FB page that a message he has received makes him believe that Norris will not be withdrawing from seeking nomination
    <salt pinch needed>

    He must have removed it? If I'm on the right page.


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    #476
    Teyla Emmagan
    Registered Users Posts: 5,641 ✭✭✭Teyla Emmagan


    yutta wrote: »
    Please elaborate.

    I don't think I'll feed you any more thanks.


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    #477
    Sir Oxman
    Closed Accounts Posts: 8,492 ✭✭✭Sir Oxman


    Happyman42 wrote: »
    He must have removed it? If I'm on the right page.

    No, still there.
    he says it twice as a comment in a topic and as a topic itself.
    Sorry can't link to the exact bit
    http://www.facebook.com/pages/Senator-David-Norris-for-President/318973847746


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    #478
    yutta
    Closed Accounts Posts: 429 ✭✭yutta


    Teyla Emmagan wrote: »
    I don't think I'll feed you any more thanks.

    I stand over my comments. Evidently you can't.


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    #479
    Happyman42
    Closed Accounts Posts: 18,066 ✭✭✭✭Happyman42


    gambiaman wrote: »
    No, still there.
    he says it twice as a comment in a topic and as a topic itself.
    Sorry can't link to the exact bit
    http://www.facebook.com/pages/Senator-David-Norris-for-President/318973847746

    Ok, ta


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    #480
    deirdre_dub
    Registered Users Posts: 1,229 ✭✭✭deirdre_dub


    And in other news, an Israeli human rights activist pleads guilty to child sexual abuse.

    As Norris says, had Nawi been in Ireland, it is likely his conviction would have been overturned by the safeguards, checks and balances in the legal system here. That, too, is a scandal. Isn't it?



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    #481
    Happyman42
    Closed Accounts Posts: 18,066 ✭✭✭✭Happyman42


    btw, is Jackson, pro or anti David Norris? He claimed on Sunday? (I think it was) on RTE radio that he had knowledge or sight of two more damaging allegations about DN. Haven't heard any more about it...but it was an odd thing to say and then not back it up.


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