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David Norris - Post-Revelations

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    #782
    HarryPotter41
    Registered Users Posts: 1,402 ✭✭✭HarryPotter41


    mikom wrote: »
    An excited Ganley approaches....

    An excited Ganley, what an offputting thought....


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    #783
    Android 666
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,577 ✭✭✭Android 666


    HarryPotter41 wrote: »
    Yet you make such vivid comparison with what David Norris has done without actually seeing exactly what Mitchell did at the time.

    Almost as vivid as your belief that statutory rape is worse than murder...


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    #784
    mikom
    Closed Accounts Posts: 16,391 ✭✭✭✭mikom


    HarryPotter41 wrote: »
    Because they have beliefs that you don't agree with doesn't make them any less entitled to that opinion,

    How liberal of you.


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    #785
    HarryPotter41
    Registered Users Posts: 1,402 ✭✭✭HarryPotter41


    Android 666 wrote: »
    Almost as vivid as your belief that statutory rape is worse than murder...


    Let me just recap what I said, I said that I believe in terms of crime that murder is the most heinous crime, just purely from the victim side, statutory rape leaves a victim that could be scarred for life and have to deal with that. In terms of crime murder is definitely miles ahead in terms of seriousness. Nice dodge on my point though and very selective picking of the point I made. Wouldn't have expected anything else though tbh.


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    #786
    Adamantium
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,563 ✭✭✭Adamantium


    Android 666 wrote: »
    DANA: Just stand back and watch what happens because the prayers of children are so powerful.

    (Said shortly before she flew off into the atmosphere and killed Satan in a space battle!)

    on a shakespearean side note:

    doesn't Norris look like Anthony Hopkins (Odin) in Thor?? :D


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    #787
    The Volt
    Registered Users Posts: 7,957 ✭✭✭The Volt


    Today's Mirror apparently. Salt in the wounds now.

    http://twitpic.com/60e2hc


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    #788
    Android 666
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,577 ✭✭✭Android 666


    HarryPotter41 wrote: »
    Let me just recap what I said, I said that I believe in terms of crime that murder is the most heinous crime, just purely from the victim side, statutory rape leaves a victim that could be scarred for life and have to deal with that. In terms of crime murder is definitely miles ahead in terms of seriousness. Nice dodge on my point though and very selective picking of the point I made. Wouldn't have expected anything else though tbh.

    Well, let me put it this way. Why not, for clarification sake, let us see a scanned version of the letter that Gay Mitchell sent in defence of Paul Hill to do a side by side comparison.

    You're asking me was it on a state letterhead. I can't answer that at the moment and neither can you. So I can't see how you can be high and mighty about something you can't back up.


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    #789
    mags1962
    Registered Users Posts: 395 ✭✭mags1962


    David Norris is a harmless man, at least he would bring a bit of leveity to the job aswell as a more liberal and inclusive attitude which is the way everybody is apparently going.


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    #790
    jill_valentine
    Registered Users Posts: 7,090 ✭✭✭jill_valentine


    Bear in mind, Mitchell's letter isn't in the hands of our good friends in Israel.


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    #791
    BlaasForRafa
    Registered Users Posts: 7,020 ✭✭✭BlaasForRafa


    jill_valentine wrote: »
    Bear in mind, Mitchell's letter isn't in the hands of our good friends in Israel.

    oh yeah the evil israelis, they're to blame for everything. I presume you think they made norris's ex stick his c**k up that palestinian boys a**e as well :rolleyes:


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    #792
    Phill Ewinn
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,007 ✭✭✭Phill Ewinn


    Some gay bloke the radio this morning defending David Norris and saying how ''people'' wouldn't have let us have the first gay president in Europe.

    Clearly the like of that fvcker shouldn't be allowed vote, nevermind get their twisted opinions aired on radio.


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    #793
    HarryPotter41
    Registered Users Posts: 1,402 ✭✭✭HarryPotter41


    Android 666 wrote: »
    Well, let me put it this way. Why not, for clarification sake, let us see a scanned version of the letter that Gay Mitchell sent in defence of Paul Hill to do a side by side comparison.

    You're asking me was it on a state letterhead. I can't answer that at the moment and neither can you. So I can't see how you can be high and mighty about something you can't back up.


    I am not being high and mighty about anything, I am not the one making a comparison of similar abuse of power between two letters when I have only seen one. I am sure if you contact Gay Mitchells office they can furnish you with the correct information you desire.


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    #794
    Biggins
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 34,567 ✭✭✭✭Biggins


    Android 666 wrote: »
    DANA: Just stand back and watch what happens because the prayers of children are so powerful.

    (Said shortly before she flew off into the atmosphere and killed Satan in a space battle!)
    Shush, the Scientologists will hear you and use your writing for the next version of their wacko stuff!


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    #795
    Android 666
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,577 ✭✭✭Android 666


    HarryPotter41 wrote: »
    I am not being high and mighty about anything, I am not the one making a comparison of similar abuse of power between two letters when I have only seen one. I am sure if you contact Gay Mitchells office they can furnish you with the correct information you desire.

    Okay, so you find nothing inappropriate in Gay Mitchell as then Spokesman on Foreign Affairs writing to the Governor of Florida asking him to take anti-abortionist Paul Hill, the first person in the United States to be executed for murdering a doctor who performed abortions, off death row?

    Hill said that he felt no remorse for his actions, and that he expected "a great reward in Heaven". Those this rhetoric not strike you as being very similar to that of Islamic extremists?

    You don't find this inappropriate at all?


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    #796
    HarryPotter41
    Registered Users Posts: 1,402 ✭✭✭HarryPotter41


    Android 666 wrote: »
    Okay, so you find nothing inappropriate in Gay Mitchell as then Spokesman on Foreign Affairs writing to the Governor of Florida asking him to take anti-abortionist Paul Hill, the first person in the United States to be executed for murdering a doctor who performed abortions, off death row?

    Hill said that he felt no remorse for his actions, and that he expected "a great reward in Heaven". Those this rhetoric not strike you as being very similar to that of Islamic extremists?

    You don't find this inappropriate at all?


    Did he write as Spokesperson or in a private capacity? There is a huge difference int he answer dependent on that.


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    #797
    Android 666
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,577 ✭✭✭Android 666


    HarryPotter41 wrote: »
    Did he write as Spokesperson or in a private capacity? There is a huge difference int he answer dependent on that.

    Well the article is has him down as Fine Gael's Spokesman on Foreign Affairs.

    http://www.rte.ie/news/2003/0903/deathrow.html
    Fine Gael's Spokesman on Foreign Affairs, Gay Mitchell, has written to the Governor of Florida in the US, asking him to take anti-abortionist Paul Hill off death row.


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    #798
    Toby Take a Bow
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,732 ✭✭✭Toby Take a Bow


    I found the Norris letter a bit disturbing, and his press conference announcing he wasn't running echoed a lot of my feelings of unease over the letter he sent.

    Mitchell's letter seeking clemency for the murderer on death row should be investigated in much the same way that Norris' was. It'd be only fair, and to be honest, without knowing all the facts, I would think that Mitchell's letter at least compares, if not goes beyond, what Norris did, primarily if he seeks clemency from the death penalty simply due to his religious ideology.


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    #799
    HarryPotter41
    Registered Users Posts: 1,402 ✭✭✭HarryPotter41


    Android 666 wrote: »
    Well the article is has him down as Fine Gael's Spokesman on Foreign Affairs.

    http://www.rte.ie/news/2003/0903/deathrow.html

    Which does not clarify the matter


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    #800
    alex73
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,731 ✭✭✭alex73


    Android 666 wrote: »
    Well the article is has him down as Fine Gael's Spokesman on Foreign Affairs.

    http://www.rte.ie/news/2003/0903/deathrow.html


    Echoing that stance against execution that Europe has.. He was not the only one to write such a letter.


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    #801
    Android 666
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,577 ✭✭✭Android 666


    alex73 wrote: »
    Echoing that stance against execution that Europe has.. He was not the only one to write such a letter.

    It's the prisoner that he choose that is the most disquieting aspect of it.


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    #802
    Android 666
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,577 ✭✭✭Android 666


    HarryPotter41 wrote: »
    Which does not clarify the matter

    Well, hopefully some blogger has a scan of the letter to hand (fingers crossed…)


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    #803
    alex73
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,731 ✭✭✭alex73


    Android 666 wrote: »
    It's the prisoner that he choose that is the most disquieting aspect of it.

    Why? Killing another person is going to achieve what in modern day society?


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    #804
    Dr_H.Lecter_
    Closed Accounts Posts: 18 ✭Dr_H.Lecter_


    was gonna vote for him - but with the church thing already sending shockwaves we cant possibly now have someone connected with such actions/accusations as president. we'd be seen as the fuppin perdrophiles of europe.


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    #805
    K-9
    Registered Users Posts: 43,311 ✭✭✭✭K-9


    deepertheroots wrote: »
    Who's Ireland's greatest euro-skeptic atm? Whoever it is should make a wonderful president in my view.

    Ganley but he was stealing a hell of a lot of Dana votes she got before.

    Mad Men's Don Draper : What you call love was invented by guys like me, to sell nylons.



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    #806
    dvpower
    Closed Accounts Posts: 9,183 ✭✭✭dvpower


    alex73 wrote: »
    Why? Killing another person is going to achieve what in modern day society?
    The guy in question was completely unrepentant about the murders he carried out. Certainly killing him solves nothing, but if Maichell was going to pick some case to champion, it might have been better to pick someone with some redeeming features.


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    #807
    alejandro1977
    Registered Users Posts: 505 ✭✭✭alejandro1977


    dvpower wrote: »
    The guy in question was completely unrepentant about the murders he carried out. Certainly killing him solves nothing, but if Maichell was going to pick some case to champion, it might have been better to pick someone with some redeeming features.

    What you said implies that sometimes the Death Penalty is less wrong than others. It may not be popular to say so but GM believes the Death Penalty to be wrong no matter how heinous the crime.

    He believes Life is Sacred.

    this line that an anti-abortion crusader deserves to die more than some else sounds like a bit of sneaking regarderism .

    The guy wanted to die. He wanted to be a martyr.

    The comparisons with the Norris letter ignores the important fact that it was completely out in the open - unlike the letter asking for clemency for Norris creepy pederast boyfriend.


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    #808
    carlos D
    Registered Users Posts: 29 ✭carlos D


    Some bizarre amount of people who wish that Gay Mitchell had campaigned to have that man murdered. We don't believe in the death penalty in Ireland,I'm not talking about merely in law but most individuals do not,under any circumstance believe in it as a matter of morality. This was a case brought before Gay Mitchell and he wrote a letter asking them to stop, totally in sync with what he know of his political beliefs. You may not like it,but there is nothing immoral or contradictory about it.


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    #809
    dvpower
    Closed Accounts Posts: 9,183 ✭✭✭dvpower


    HarryPotter41 wrote: »
    Let me just recap what I said, I said that I believe in terms of crime that murder is the most heinous crime, just purely from the victim side, statutory rape leaves a victim that could be scarred for life and have to deal with that. In terms of crime murder is definitely miles ahead in terms of seriousness. Nice dodge on my point though and very selective picking of the point I made. Wouldn't have expected anything else though tbh.

    Well that is a 'clarification' of your earlier position.
    HarryPotter41 wrote: »
    Probably wasn't leaked because it was made public AT THE TIME IT HAPPENED. And is the crime more heinous, Paul Hill's victims are dead, the victim of a statutory rape can often have to live with the emotional scars of that crime for a lifetime. Everything can be relative.


    The problem is that you were ambiguous in how you view the crime of murder. And, if the last week has shown us anything, ambiguity is a very serious offence. You gave one impression and no clarification can ever take that away. Your presidential campaign is doomed (unless Dana gets a nomination - you could probably still beat her).


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    #810
    jill_valentine
    Registered Users Posts: 7,090 ✭✭✭jill_valentine


    If Dana does get the nomination after all this, I can't promise I won't cry.


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    #811
    dvpower
    Closed Accounts Posts: 9,183 ✭✭✭dvpower


    alejandro1977 wrote: »
    What you said implies that sometimes the Death Penalty is less wrong than others. It may not be popular to say so but GM believes the Death Penalty to be wrong no matter how heinous the crime.
    That's not my personal opinion - I think the death penalty is unacceptable in all cases, but some who do support the death penalty (like the State of Florida) would view the death penalty as being wrong in some cases and not so in others.

    I'm interested to know why Gay Mitchell chose this particular person to champion, given that he was completely unrepentant.
    Mitchell must also have known that, given his own strong religious views, petitioning for a person whose crimes were religiously motivated, might attract some controversy.
    Again, that's not my own view of it and it would be very uncharitable to come to this conclusion imo, but there you have it. I wonder what was going on in his head.


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