Advertisement
If you have a new account but are having problems posting or verifying your account, please email us on hello@boards.ie for help. Thanks :)
Hello all! Please ensure that you are posting a new thread or question in the appropriate forum. The Feedback forum is overwhelmed with questions that are having to be moved elsewhere. If you need help to verify your account contact hello@boards.ie
David Norris - Post-Revelations
Options
Comments
-
HarryPotter41 wrote: »Which is strange considering the LGBT forum shows a higher level of abhorrence to what he did. then again they aren't trying to be cool by supporting the gay guy, they are just actually gay and attached to reality
I also get the impression that it is predominantly heterosexual Norris supporters who are attempting to downplay this because they wrongly assume that this whole scandal is really about governments attempting to discriminate against gay youths having sex.
They actually believe they are representing the interests of ordinary gays by stoutly defending Norris when in actual fact all they are going is giving ammunition to people who really do hold homophobic views which they will use against a gay community for a controversy that wasn't even of the gay community's making. These straight Norris supporters are misrepresenting the attitudes of ordinary gay people who, similarly to ordinary straight people, are repulsed with the thought of an adult having sex with a minor, irregardless of sexual preference.
The only people benefitting from this defence is the homophobic element of Irish society. The gay community will be tagged as guilty by association with those the defenders of Nawi and Norris and we who openly condemn Nawi are labelled homophobic by these same defenders even though all we are demanding is that gay youths recieve equal protection to straight ones.0 -
I wonder would there be enough evidence to convict Norris?
According to his own letter is was aware of the circumstances of the case and has direct evidence.
Maybe he could go in the dock with a Bishop accused of covering and defending a clerical child rapist.
They are both equally wrong in seeking to remove the rights of others by back hand manipulation and egoistic authority. That Israeli boys mother should punch his face in.0 -
Calum Best for president!!!0
-
TryItMyWay wrote: »According to his own letter is was aware of the circumstances of the case and has direct evidence.
Maybe he could go in the dock with a Bishop accused of covering and defending a clerical child rapist.
They are both equally wrong in seeking to remove the rights of others by back hand manipulation and egoistic authority. That Israeli boys mother should punch his face in.
Do you think he advocated or faciliated child sexual abuse in the letter to the court. If so, where?
Do you think there would be enough evidence to convict him under the law you suggest?0 -
Pompey Magnus wrote: »I also get the impression that it is predominantly heterosexual Norris supporters who are attempting to downplay this because they wrongly assume that this whole scandal is really about governments attempting to discriminate against gay youths having sex.
They actually believe they are representing the interests of ordinary gays by stoutly defending Norris when in actual fact all they are going is giving ammunition to people who really do hold homophobic views which they will use against a gay community for a controversy that wasn't even of the gay community's making. These straight Norris supporters are misrepresenting the attitudes of ordinary gay people who, similarly to ordinary straight people, are repulsed with the thought of an adult having sex with a minor, irregardless of sexual preference.
The only people benefitting from this defence is the homophobic element of Irish society. The gay community will be tagged as guilty by association with those the defenders of Nawi and Norris and we who openly condemn Nawi are labelled homophobic by these same defenders even though all we are demanding is that gay youths recieve equal protection to straight ones.
Interesting.
It's the PC brigades fault. Now where have I heard that before?Mad Men's Don Draper : What you call love was invented by guys like me, to sell nylons.
0 -
Advertisement
-
-
Pompey Magnus wrote: »I also get the impression that it is predominantly heterosexual Norris supporters who are attempting to downplay this because they wrongly assume that this whole scandal is really about governments attempting to discriminate against gay youths having sex.
They actually believe they are representing the interests of ordinary gays by stoutly defending Norris when in actual fact all they are going is giving ammunition to people who really do hold homophobic views which they will use against a gay community for a controversy that wasn't even of the gay community's making. These straight Norris supporters are misrepresenting the attitudes of ordinary gay people who, similarly to ordinary straight people, are repulsed with the thought of an adult having sex with a minor, irregardless of sexual preference.
The only people benefitting from this defence is the homophobic element of Irish society. The gay community will be tagged as guilty by association with those the defenders of Nawi and Norris and we who openly condemn Nawi are labelled homophobic by these same defenders even though all we are demanding is that gay youths recieve equal protection to straight ones.
What about those people on this thread banding on about 'what goes on in the scene'?
They are the freakshow. They may be parasiting on the fringes of the gay community in Ireland, if so I hope the gay community will legally take great pleasure in turing them over to the cops........
Personally I don't associate Norris with anything other than Norris and Ephebophilia at this stage. Since sexual paraphilias are really nothing to do with being gay or straight, I don't see the connection. Norris appears to be confused on the matter, his niche understanding and defense of Ephebophilia in a homsexual context is much more reflective of his confusion on the matter. He's still a complete asshole and I challenge anyone to read his letter and not think that....0 -
Pompey Magnus wrote: »What did I say that you disagree with?
Also I'm not sure what I'd describe the Norris supporters as but I certainly don't think they are "Politically Correct".
Saying it's hetrosexual Norris supporters down playing it because of some type of gay discrimination.
Any substance to that?
I'd have supported him and certainly haven't down played it, indeed concentrated on the seriousness of it and comparing it to a 15 year old girl.Mad Men's Don Draper : What you call love was invented by guys like me, to sell nylons.
0 -
Do you think he advocated or faciliated child sexual abuse in the letter to the court. If so, where?
Do you think there would be enough evidence to convict him under the law you suggest?
These are the mans old words in a letter to his supporters
"Age of consent
In my view, the people best equipped to make these difficult moral and legal decisions are the judiciary. Legislation based on the principle of consent empowers the judiciary. This is the approach that I would personally support.
Consent based on age, has resulted in many instances in the inappropriate criminal prosecution of minors.
Pederasty
Pederasty is a term describing sexual relations between an older and a younger man in ancient Greece. My experience as a young man in Dublin was that there were no social outlets for gay men. I was left in ignorance by society and didn’t consciously meet another gay male until I was in my 20s. The subject was surrounded by silence and fear. Then I read Plato’s symposium, in which there is a discussion about the nature of love. The greatest philosopher ever argued that physical love was the gateway to spiritual love, very movingly it concludes with the most beautiful young man in Athens, Alcibiades admitting that he has offered himself sexually to Socrates in return for sharing in Socrates’ wisdom. This text was preserved throughout the middle ages. I saw this enlightening approach and experience as a much more interesting and preferable introduction to sexuality than my own experience. That is my own personal opinion.
"
From wikpedia
"Ephebophilia is the sexual preference of adults for mid-to-late adolescents, generally ages 15 to 19.[1][2] The term was originally used in the late 19th to mid 20th century, and has been more recently revisited by Ray Blanchard.[2] It is one of a number of sexual preferences across age groups subsumed under the technical term "chronophilia". Ephebophilia strictly denotes the preference for mid-to-late adolescent sexual partners, not the mere presence of some level of sexual attraction. In sexual ethics, it may be defined as a sexual preference for girls generally 14–16 years old, and boys generally 14–19 years old.[3] Some authors define ephebophilia as a sexual preference for pubescent and adolescent boys.[4]"
What do you think?
Let's cut out the window dressing dressing it up with analogies with ancient Greece. He wants to eliminate statutory rape and an age of consent and likes the idea of a serious age gap....
In his letter to the Israeli court he indicates clearly he has additional direct factual knowledge of the circumstances of the case - yet he did not report it to the authorities at the time.....0 -
TryItMyWay wrote: »What about those people on this thread banding on about 'what goes on in the scene'
Trolls, deliberately inciting the argument, please don't take the views they express as the actual views or actions of the vast majority of the gay community0 -
Advertisement
-
Saying it's hetrosexual Norris supporters down playing it because of some type of gay discrimination.
Any substance to that?
I'd have supported him and certainly haven't down played it, indeed concentrated on the seriousness of it and comparing it to a 15 year old girl.
Well as I take it then you view Nawi as just as much a sex fiend as Tom Humphries who commited a comparible heterosexual offence then I can't and won't accuse you of double standards, however there are plenty in your camp who see Nawi's offense as less deserving of condemnation than the statutory rape of a gay boy and it is was them that I was referring to.
I would suggest you aim your condemnation at them rather than me for meerly pointing them out because they are doing decent Norris supporters no favours whatsoever.0 -
In what derranged world do you think it it OK for a middle aged man to seduce a 15 year old girl?
You're a freak. It's child abuse. Someone that age is supposed to have a real adult relationship with a middle aged man?
It's interesting to note that if k-9 is anything to go by, the issue is not that gay men support Norris, but child rapists do.
You don;t need to answer the question of whether you have children, you don't because if you had any actual experience of just how much a child a 15 year old girl you would have an understanding what a foul act it is for a middle aged man to sleep with her .
On the otherhand you may just condone child abuse.
Which is it, are you a fool or are you a hebophile?0 -
Pompey Magnus wrote: »Well as I take it then you view Nawi as just as much a sex fiend as Tom Humphries who commited a comparible heterosexual offence then I can't and won't accuse you of double standards, however there are plenty in your camp who see Nawi's offense as less deserving of condemnation than the statutory rape of a gay boy and it is was them that I was referring to.
I would suggest you aim your condemnation at them rather than me for meerly pointing them out because they are doing decent Norris supporters no favours whatsoever.
Yep, you've my views summed up.
What camp? My camp?
Make your own mind up and decide on the context and circumstances.
You don't decide to be anti everything pc do you? You're too smart for that.
I'd suggest you look at who them are. Stereotypes are far too lazy for a mind like yours.Mad Men's Don Draper : What you call love was invented by guys like me, to sell nylons.
0 -
TryItMyWay wrote: »It's interesting to note that if k-9 is anything to go by, the issue is not that gay men support Norris, but child rapists do.
WTF?
Good God of almighty.
FFS, might as well move to America and join the Tea Party vs. Democrat mud slinging.Mad Men's Don Draper : What you call love was invented by guys like me, to sell nylons.
0 -
HarryPotter41 wrote: »Trolls, deliberately inciting the argument, please don't take the views they express as the actual views or actions of the vast majority of the gay community
I don't - what is disturbing about this thread is the number of people claiming to be both gay and straight who don;t seem to understand that a middle aged guy sleeping with a 15 year old girl is child rape.
A 15 year old girl is a child. So is a 15 year old boy. FFS what is wrong with these people. It is NOT ok for a middle aged man or women to seduce them.
It's certainly not a minor offense, or ok, or an if maybe, it's the authorties do something or leave it to the lynch mob.
As I say, in some ways it is a shame that the lynch mob don't get more of a say.0 -
What camp? My camp?
The broad Norris camp, just as how in the broad anti-Norris camp there are idiots also. I have no intention of tarring decent Norris supporters with guilt by association with them as I am hugely annoyed when the opposite is done, if I have given the impression that that was my aim I apologise.You don't decide to be anti everything pc do you? You're too smart for that..
No I don't and believe it or not I actually consider myself to be upholding the PC position in this thread. All I am doing, along with others from both sides, is demanding that homosexual statutory rape of a minor be treat no differently to heterosexual statutory rape of a minor and for the guilty party to be condemned equally irregardless of their sexuality. Demanding absolute equality is the cornerstone of the truely Politically Correct, is it not? I don't believe those who have given tacit approval to Nawi or who downplay his actions as just part of life are PC at all.0 -
I'd have supported him and certainly haven't down played it, indeed concentrated on the seriousness of it and comparing it to a 15 year old girl.
So you think that a middle aged man sleeping with a 15 year old child is no big deal?
Your reaction to my fairly normal disguist at your opinion is to type some rubbish about moving to America?
Don't you know a 15 year old is a CHILD.
Thinking like yours is very reminiscent of the hairspiltting foot dragging ineptitude of the Catholic hierarchy when confronted with child abuse.
Your a Norris supporter, not because you are gay apparently, but because you are into kids?
And let's get this correct.. if someone chooses to disagree with you f**ked up notions about child rape...you're going to accuse them of being a member of an American Republican fringe?0 -
TryItMyWay wrote: »Don't you know a 15 year old is a CHILD.
No they aren't. They are a child until puberty, by 15 they are adolescents.0 -
Adolescents are just as vunerable if not more so then younger kids as at that age they THINK they know it all. There is a big difference between having a fully developed body and a brain.Pompey Magnus wrote: »No they aren't. They are a child until puberty, by 15 they are adolescents.0 -
Pompey Magnus wrote: »No they aren't. They are a child until puberty, at 15 they are adolescents.
To me a adolescents are children. That'sone of the reasons they can't vote, that's the reason they are tried differently in criminal cases.
You are using semantics to avoid the issue. A 15 year old may wish to be percieved as an adult but they are not, infant, adolescents, minor, whatever term is constructed to avoid the fact that they are children, still developing mentally and physcially and certainly incapable of forming a relationship with someone.
K9s attitude disguists me because it is so casualy thrown out without thought to how such sexual use of a 15 year old can damage their psychological and sexual development and leave them scarred for their entire lives.
I rest that someone of 15 is a child and that it is bizzare to suggest that a child of that age having sexual relations with someone middle aged is anything other than child abuse.0 -
Advertisement
-
Pompey Magnus wrote: »The broad Norris camp, just as how in the broad anti-Norris camp there are idiots also. I have no intention of tarring decent Norris supporters with guilt by association with them as I am hugely annoyed when the opposite is done, if I have given the impression that that was my aim I apologise.
Apology accepted. Far too much tarring of sides and it is hard to not rise to the bait.
No I don't and believe it or not I actually consider myself to be upholding the PC position in this thread. All I (and others from both sides) am doing is demanding that homosexual statutory rape of a minor be treat no differently to heterosexual statutory rape of a minor and for the guilty party to be condemned equally irregadless of their sexuality. Demanding absolute equality is the cornerstone of the truely Politically Correct, is it not? I don't believe those who have given tacit approval to Nawi or who downplay his actions as just part of life are PC at all.
I said you seem to be holding the non pc opinion, on this and other related threads.
I would have been pro Norris or well gave him the benefit of the doubt until this stuff came out. Then my immediate reaction was comparing it to a 15 year old girl.TryItMyWay wrote: »
So you think that a middle aged man sleeping with a 15 year old child is no big deal?
Your reaction to my fairly normal disguist at your opinion is to type some rubbish about moving to America?
Don't you know a 15 year old is a CHILD.
Thinking like yours is very reminiscent of the hairspiltting foot dragging ineptitude of the Catholic hierarchy when confronted with child abuse.
Your a Norris supporter, not because you are gay apparently, but because you are into kids?
And let's get this correct.. if someone chooses to disagree with you f**ked up notions about child rape...you're going to accuse them of being a member of an American Republican fringe?
LOL
Good night and God bless.
Do try and keep up with the flow of the conversation, otherwise you look like you lack basic reading comprehension skills.Mad Men's Don Draper : What you call love was invented by guys like me, to sell nylons.
0 -
TryItMyWay wrote: »
K9s attitude disguists me because it is so casualy thrown out without thought to how such sexual use of a 15 year old can damage their psychological and sexual development and leave them scarred for their entire lives.
I rest that someone of 15 is a child and that it is bizzare to suggest that a child of that age having sexual relations with someone middle aged is anything other than child abuse.
You're too easily disgusted and seeking offence pet.
Keep the rage and emotion aside and read what is actually said.
PS. I said the complete opposite to what you are accusing.Mad Men's Don Draper : What you call love was invented by guys like me, to sell nylons.
0 -
Saying it's hetrosexual Norris supporters down playing it because of some type of gay discrimination.
Any substance to that?
I'd have supported him and certainly haven't down played it, indeed concentrated on the seriousness of it and comparing it to a 15 year old girl.
Indeed.
I'd have supported him short of this, and no longer do - however, the haste with which people have rushed to indulge in tabloid speculation well beyond the facts of the case, or discuss very different kinds of crime as though they're wholly interchangeable, is alarming and frustrating. These distinctions might seem inconsequential in such an emotive context, but they aren't, and people shouldn't feel free to let their imaginations run away with them for the sake of more dramatic rhetoric.
For instance, the amount of "God, he probably even..." comments throughout this thread and its counterparts is disquieting and a little nauseating. The case should be discussed in terms of the facts of the matter, no more no less - but pointing that out shouldn't be misconstrued as an implicit approval or defense of the people in question.however there are plenty in your camp who see Nawi's offense as less deserving of condemnation than the statutory rape of a gay boy and it is was them that I was referring to.
Conversely, more than one poster has voiced the suggestion that Nawi's crime was far worse simply by virtue of their own personal hangups about anal sex, and how "unnatural" the practice itself is.
What I'd argue is that, rather than defending Norris or his actions, a lot of the people being cast as his "defenders" here are just contesting some of the issues surrounding it, or looking to object to the tawdry angles of attack cropping up in the conversation along the way. Not all; but certainly some.
For instance, although homophobia in itself was not what ultimately did for Norris - again, he was entirely responsible for his own undoing - it's reared its ugly head over and over in the course of the discussion about it. Contesting homophobia where it clearly occurs in the conversation should not be confused for an attempt to either suggest that it had a hand in Norris' downfall, mitigate Nawi's crime, or deflect responsibility for either one.
I know this is AH and all, I just want to be abundantly clear about my own standpoint here.0 -
Has anyone got the the full video where he pulls out from going president.
Out side his house.?
The wave was just like....I am the Queen of this country.:rolleyes:0 -
You're too easily disgusted and seeking offence pet.
Keep the rage and emotion aside and read what is actually said.
PS. I said the complete opposite to what you are accusing.
I was not alone in my interpretation of your wittering.
I am very glad that Norris is gone and your condecending and inexact prose is a small price to pay.
Now quiet there's a good biatch and go take down your Norris for president posters.
note:user banned for this comment0 -
I said you seem to be holding the non pc opinion, on this and other related threads.
You are free to think that, just as I am free to think that my view of treating homosexual youths with as much protection and equality as heterosexual youths is politically correct. I don't consider Nawi any more or less reprehensible for his crime than I do Tom Humphries for his.
Implicit in the counter argument is that a heterosexual girl deserves more protection under the law than a homosexual boy and the public reaction to the guilty party needs first to consider his sexual orientation before deciding how to react.
As it discriminates definitely on the grounds of sexual orientation and I am assuming probably also on gender grounds too then it doesn't sound like any authentic PC viewpoint that I know of, all it can be described as is pseudo-PC.0 -
Not even charged yet afaik, so, no I wouldn't have expected to see a lot of coverage - that's why I was very surprised to see you say 'he was utterly, utterly vilified', when in fact he was hardly mentioned.
He "attempted" suicide after the charge was brought and was in Clonskeagh/Dundrum hospital AFAIK for a bit, what has happened since then I am unsure although I did hear that he was planning to sue the Gardai for letting his name get out so easily although that is probably just tabloid bull as I found out from a flatmate who put two and two together very quickly after a journalist was mentioned and he noticed THs pieces from the Times were missing.The case did get a fair bit of coverage, but Tom Humphries wasn't mentioned very much at all. I only learned of his identity in this thread, so again I'm surprised to see you say that his ordeal is 'now common knowledge in the country'.
It was front page news on several Red tops after they got the clear to publish it, his photo was published beside the headlines several times before they got permission to publish his name, little to the imagination would be the understatement.
The only paper that I did not see get into it at all was the Times unsurprisingly.
I hope he gets life for this, the only benefit to the downplaying of it is that it allows the Gardai to perform a full investigation (there is more than one investigation going on at the minute) before they get flooded with alot of insinuation from Joe Public rather than the facts from those involved. i have no doubt once the charges are pressed and it goes to court there will be debates galore across the country.0 -
0
-
Does he want to eliminate statutory rape? Can you point to where he says he is in favour of eliminating statutory rape?TryItMyWay wrote: »He wants to eliminate statutory rape and an age of consent and likes the idea of a serious age gap....
Does he want to eliminate the age of consent? Can you point to where he says he is in favour of eliminating the age of consent?
What serious age gap does he want?
My understanding is that he is in favour of a graduated approach at the margins, so for example, a 17 year old wouldn't be prosecuted for having sex with a 15 year old.DN wrote:Age of consent
In my view, the people best equipped to make these difficult moral and legal decisions are the judiciary. Legislation based on the principle of consent empowers the judiciary. This is the approach that I would personally support.
Consent based on age, has resulted in many instances in the inappropriate criminal prosecution of minors.
Are you saying that he had some information about a crime that he should have reported, but didn't? I didn't take that from the letter at all. Could you point out the bit in the letter where he says this?TryItMyWay wrote: »In his letter to the Israeli court he indicates clearly he has additional direct factual knowledge of the circumstances of the case - yet he did not report it to the authorities at the time.....
But, to get back to the question I asked.
In the law that you suggest, would there be enough evidence to convict David Norris? If so, how?TryItMyWay wrote:Perhaps a law regarding advocacy or facilitation of child sexual abuse should be introduced?0 -
Advertisement
-
That's the thing. Mitchell didn't juts pick this one guy to 'champion'. He has come out against executions across the world, for all sorts of crimes.
Yeah. I accept that. He's not my cup of tea, but his opposition to the death penalty is one of his plus points.
I'd just say that, even in fighting a good fight, he still needs to pick his cases well, because any controversy (baseless or not) can deflect from the good work.0
Advertisement