Roscommon GAA Discussion Thread

davegrohl48

They've had a major cyclical problem in not having many players with size and mobility down the spine of the side. Full back/Centre back/Midfield/Centre Forward.
I think that will sort itself out naturally enough and Roscommons fortunes will grow from there.
Conditioning wise they are in pretty good shape but you can't manufacture height in a gym.

Syferus

Plenty of height on the panel, going up the spine we've got Carty at FB (as big and as strong as any full-back in the country, and perhaps our best player in the league), at centre-back we've got Ian Kilbride if we want size there, though Niall Daly has shown himself to be a special player and Ian is arguably better as a wing-back anyways. Finn is what, 6'6''? Height isn't his problem, width is. Mango is 6'4'', as is Cathal Shine and Senan and Donie is 6'5''. DOG is a big strong lad too, certainly north of 6'. All are very much in line to be starters, except maybe Cathal who had a hand injury in the league.

There's a real argument that if we named all those lads that we might have too many skyscrapers rather than not enough. Honestly though, those players are essential to our hopes of doing anything in the near-term.

JR79

Watch Paddy Joe Burke the Legend!!! A ture Gaa fan & a true Rossie!

http://www.hoganstand.com/ArticleForm.aspx?ID=192471

sting60

JR79 wrote: »

Watch Paddy Joe Burke the Legend!!! A ture Gaa fan & a true Rossie!

http://www.hoganstand.com/ArticleForm.aspx?ID=192471

Imagine getting the hair cut after winning.Paddy Crerandesk in his bias but a top man.

padd b1975

Fair play to him, its characters like him that make the GAA.

Not a patch on John Durcan though....

keane2097

Syferus wrote: »

Plenty of height on the panel, going up the spine we've got Carty at FB (as big and as strong as any full-back in the country, and perhaps our best player in the league), at centre-back we've got Ian Kilbride if we want size there, though Niall Daly has shown himself to be a special player and Ian is arguably better as a wing-back anyways. Finn is what, 6'6''? Height isn't his problem, width is. Mango is 6'4'', as is Cathal Shine and Senan and Donie is 6'5''. DOG is a big strong lad too, certainly north of 6'. All are very much in line to be starters, except maybe Cathal who had a hand injury in the league.

There's a real argument that if we named all those lads that we might have too many skyscrapers rather than not enough. Honestly though, those players are essential to our hopes of doing anything in the near-term.

Yeah jaysus sheer size is the last thing you could argue Roscommon are lacking!

Always_Running

keane2097 wrote: »

Yeah jaysus sheer size is the last thing you could argue Roscommon are lacking!

Unless Roscommon have grown the last year or so i think Syferus has added a few inches on some of those players.

Gunneros

Always_Running wrote: »

Unless Roscommon have grown the last year or so i think Syferus has added a few inches on some of those players.

The info regarding height is usually way too generous in the pen pics on match programmes. I can only speak for the brigids lads but karol is 6 3 and Senan is 6 2. When they stand next to finneran u can see the difference. It's not really the point anyway it's more conditioning and fitness built up over consecutive seasons that counts and too few of the ros players have that.

Always_Running

Gunneros wrote: »

The info regarding height is usually way too generous in the pen pics on match programmes. I can only speak for the brigids lads but karol is 6 3 and Senan is 6 2. When they stand next to finneran u can see the difference. It's not really the point anyway it's more conditioning and fitness built up over consecutive seasons that counts and too few of the ros players have that.

The conditioning and fitness of the St Brigids lads looked fine this year maybe that's the problem with Roscommon, not starting enough from that club? and i still think not having Peter Domican availble for selection is a big blow.

Gunneros

Always_Running wrote: »

The conditioning and fitness of the St Brigids lads looked fine this year maybe that's the problem with Roscommon, not starting enough from that club? and i still think not having Peter Domican availble for selection is a big blow.

Agreed domican is a huge blow but he has been on the go non stop for a fair number of years now and feels he needs a break. The brigids lads are well conditioned and it has been built up over years but successful inter county teams are at yet another level.

Syferus

Always_Running wrote: »

Unless Roscommon have grown the last year or so i think Syferus has added a few inches on some of those players.

Lol.

Those are the listed heights for better or worse and they aren't far wrong. Even if you take a low-end estimate you're still talking about guys that are over 6'2'' to 6'6'', the later of which Finneran almost definitely is. It's inarguable that it isn't a small team, and certainly not up the spine which was the contention. Fitness is the key for us rather than height.

rossie1977

keane2097 wrote: »

Yeah jaysus sheer size is the last thing you could argue Roscommon are lacking!

roscommon lack serious size in defence no question, they have carty (because he is the tallest @ 6'1) playing full back even though he doesn't play that position for his club or played there at underage

yabadabado

We lack a bit of height at the back but we are well covered everywhere else around the field,I think a bigger problem for us is the strength and conditioning.

Syferus

Collins is pretty much Carty's height and he's probably the strongest player we have in terms of raw strength. He studied Sport Science in DCU so he's about as professionally prepared physically a player as there is at inter-county.

Add in Ian Kilbride and three prospective starters (though Kilbride is questionable because all three league starting HBs showed in the league) are big strong feckers. Niall Daly is no pushover (and he's hardly short) but he's built athletically. He's only 21~22 and his brother Conor is only 20 so both are a few years off their physical peaks but both are some of the best prospects we've produced in the last decade. Ronan was great for the minors last year too so that family has some serious football skills and I would not be surprised to see an all-Daly senior HB line one day.

Anyways, I think our balance at the back is good with Collins and the Dalys growing into their roles our situation is much improved on last year. Seanie is the only starter you could point to height as a problem and even then anyone who's been following Roscommon knows the tenacity and skill he brings.

Donal Ward if fit is a great option at HB too and I certainly wouldn't let his height stop me from starting him.

Height is a total non-issue for us right now.

Irish94

Ian Kilbride injured himself with the county, will not play tomorrow against Western Gaels.

rossie1977

Syferus wrote: »

Height is a total non-issue for us right now.

would love to see us trying to deal with michael murphy, it would be hilarious, paul conroy has murdered our full back line last two times we faced him, half his intercounty championship scores have come in those two games... if you lack height then you need to make up for it with in terms of power, we have no-one like francie grehan on the team

we clearly lack size in key positions

sting60

The one word missing in all the threads is ability.If you have ability you have hight and strength.The second word missing is mobility.I have seen down through the ages with Roscommon big strong players with absolutly no mobility and when the time comes their ability to rise to the occasion is not there.Lastly another word missing in all the threads is dedication.The top counties have total dedication to one cause and that is winning the All Ireland.It is absolute professionalism where every player is required without question to adhere to the rules of his manager/conditioning coach.Not untill all of these three factors are in place can any team achieve the high standards required to win an All Ireland.

Strongbow10

rossie1977 wrote: »

would love to see us trying to deal with michael murphy, it would be hilarious, paul conroy has murdered our full back line last two times we faced him, half his intercounty championship scores have come in those two games... if you lack height then you need to make up for it with in terms of power, we have no-one like francie grehan on the team

we clearly lack size in key positions

Id have to agree. The original post that started this debate mentioned a lack of strength and conditioning facilities. Thats an issue.

Syferus points out height all over the pitch but theres been many a footballer with great height whilst still being weak as a kitten.

I laugh at this thread sometimes, Roscommon's players get hyped beyond belief, best young players in the country before a ball is kicked.

Its interesting you mention Conroy, he did indeed play hell in those games

Michael Finneran for instance is extremely tall, not a bad player but isn't the strongest of lads for instance.

Strength and conditioning is EVERYTHING nowadays. Especially in GAA where lads are playing all year round.

Irish94

My bad, Ian Kilbride is starting wing back, Eddie Egan starts corner forward.

Syferus

rossie1977 wrote: »

would love to see us trying to deal with michael murphy, it would be hilarious, paul conroy has murdered our full back line last two times we faced him, half his intercounty championship scores have come in those two games... if you lack height then you need to make up for it with in terms of power, we have no-one like francie grehan on the team

we clearly lack size in key positions

Who could deal with Murphy one-on-one? He's the widest lump that's played FF in living memory.

We're no worse at full-back than many teams above us on the totem pole. Carty was coming back from a season-long injury for the Galway game and was roasted by Conroy. Surely you remember that and you're not trying to twist events to suit your point?

The simple fact is a lot of people had concerns if he should be starting that game beforehand and and so it bore out in a very gaudy fashion that day. Carty was much improved in the next game and anyone that's seen him play when he's match fit knows that game was an aberration - he is a talented full-back. And, again, he was probably our best player in the league this year and certainly our best defensive player.

I'll repeat - defence, height, even talent, is not the area of concern. It's midfield and it has been for years. We don't cover our backs enough and we allow them to be under continuous pressure. Any back will look bad if they're ran off their feet by a midfield that can't retain possession.

Now midfield doesn't just mean the two big guys, but the HFs and HBs too. They have to present themselves as outlets for the keeper and for the person going up to break the ball or we're in a lot of trouble. If we have a solid platform we have players in other positions that will thrive as a result.

And to strongbow - like I said, my concern with the 'spine' of the team has never been height but conditioning. Finneran for example could do with putting on about two stone of muscle. Great worker but he's built like a basketball player and needs a guy with him that can take some of the physical heat off him because he's our primary midfielder in every sense and when he's shut down we usually are.

Syferus

Anyways, the club championship starts this evening (pending rain) and it's great to see sight of championship football on both fronts, there's not much like it!

Senior Round 1 Saturday 18th - Sunday 19th May

Group A
St Brigids v Western Gaels - Kiltoom, Saturday 7pm
St Aidans v Kilbride - Ballyforan, Sunday 3:30pm

Group B
Roscommon Gaels v Strokestown - Dr. Hyde Park, Sunday 7pm
Elphin v Castlerea - Orchard Park, Saturday 7pm

Group C
Kilmore v Clann - Kiltoom, Saturday 5:30pm
Padraig Pearses v St Faithleachs - Ballyforan, Sunday 2pm

Wins for Brigids, Kilbride, Strokestown, Castlerea, Clann and Pearses at a stretch. A lot of close games by the looks of things.

Always_Running

sting60 wrote: »

The one word missing in all the threads is ability.If you have ability you have hight and strength.The second word missing is mobility.I have seen down through the ages with Roscommon big strong players with absolutly no mobility and when the time comes their ability to rise to the occasion is not there.Lastly another word missing in all the threads is dedication.The top counties have total dedication to one cause and that is winning the All Ireland.It is absolute professionalism where every player is required without question to adhere to the rules of his manager/conditioning coach.Not untill all of these three factors are in place can any team achieve the high standards required to win an All Ireland.

Dedication is probably the main thing missing from Roscommon sides. Talent,ability is there i think St Brigids and the underage teams have shown that however if you don't give 100% dedication at senior level the poor results will continue.

All of the top sides are professionally run. They have made themselves diffcult to beat by being strong,organized,disciplined and they all know football is a simple game you just need to score more than you concede. Roscommon go out in championship games with little or no game plans,system in place concede huge amounts and then wonder where it all went wrong.

davegrohl48

Well I had mentioned height and mobility in reply to original point on strength and conditioning. Yes, guys like Finneran clearly don't cut it in terms of mobility. I still think at the level you need to be at for inter county which is still not professional level it can be done with the type o facilities available in Roscommon. Look what Cavan have done at u21? I don't see them having a huge advantage in facilities for strength and conditioning.
Also in terms of prep Roscommon had guys in even looking at running technique for players. So it's not as if all the angles haven't been looked at. All the preparation that goes in is still only getting the best possible effort out of a county with limited playing resources and relatively weak club football bar Brigids.
I had also mentioned it will "sort itself out naturally enough". Meaning by the law of averages Roscommon should have some guys come into the side with height and mobility. The gap went all the way back to Damien Donlon in having a good intercounty fullback. That is a long wait. Talking with Rossies indeed it does seem like the backs is strengthening with lads who are coming into it from successful minors/u21s. Still a long way to go at midfield and upfront.
Re Donal Shine/Cathal Shine they have height but they lack a little bit of pace and they don't have the ability like a guy like Donaghy in getting around the pitch or using their size advantage. But this is lacking in most forward lines especially in Connaught. Expect it to change though as development structures cotton on that the square ball rule is gone for open play and the 6'4" full forward becomes common. Panels have been slow to adapt to this yet. In terms of creating goal chances and disrupting the opposition keeper the tall full forward makes sense.

Gunneros

davegrohl48 wrote: »

Well I had mentioned height and mobility in reply to original point on strength and conditioning. Yes, guys like Finneran clearly don't cut it in terms of mobility. I still think at the level you need to be at for inter county which is still not professional level it can be done with the type o facilities available in Roscommon. Look what Cavan have done at u21? I don't see them having a huge advantage in facilities for strength and conditioning.
Also in terms of prep Roscommon had guys in even looking at running technique for players. So it's not as if all the angles haven't been looked at. All the preparation that goes in is still only getting the best possible effort out of a county with limited playing resources and relatively weak club football bar Brigids.
I had also mentioned it will "sort itself out naturally enough". Meaning by the law of averages Roscommon should have some guys come into the side with height and mobility. The gap went all the way back to Damien Donlon in having a good intercounty fullback. That is a long wait. Talking with Rossies indeed it does seem like the backs is strengthening with lads who are coming into it from successful minors/u21s. Still a long way to go at midfield and upfront.
Re Donal Shine/Cathal Shine they have height but they lack a little bit of pace and they don't have the ability like a guy like Donaghy in getting around the pitch or using their size advantage. But this is lacking in most forward lines especially in Connaught. Expect it to change though as development structures cotton on that the square ball rule is gone for open play and the 6'4" full forward becomes common. Panels have been slow to adapt to this yet. In terms of creating goal chances and disrupting the opposition keeper the tall full forward makes

Cathal played for clann last week but Donie didn't. Would it be fair to say that if Donie doesn't

Gunneros

Gunneros wrote: »

davegrohl48 wrote: »

Well I had mentioned height and mobility in reply to original point on strength and conditioning. Yes, guys like Finneran clearly don't cut it in terms of mobility. I still think at the level you need to be at for inter county which is still not professional level it can be done with the type o facilities available in Roscommon. Look what Cavan have done at u21? I don't see them having a huge advantage in facilities for strength and conditioning.
Also in terms of prep Roscommon had guys in even looking at running technique for players. So it's not as if all the angles haven't been looked at. All the preparation that goes in is still only getting the best possible effort out of a county with limited playing resources and relatively weak club football bar Brigids.
I had also mentioned it will "sort itself out naturally enough". Meaning by the law of averages Roscommon should have some guys come into the side with height and mobility. The gap went all the way back to Damien Donlon in having a good intercounty fullback. That is a long wait. Talking with Rossies indeed it does seem like the backs is strengthening with lads who are coming into it from successful minors/u21s. Still a long way to go at midfield and upfront.
Re Donal Shine/Cathal Shine they have height but they lack a little bit of pace and they don't have the ability like a guy like Donaghy in getting around the pitch or using their size advantage. But this is lacking in most forward lines especially in Connaught. Expect it to change though as development structures cotton on that the square ball rule is gone for open play and the 6'4" full forward becomes common. Panels have been slow to adapt to this yet. In terms of creating goal chances and disrupting the opposition keeper the tall full forward makes

Cathal played for clann last week but Donie didn't. Would it be fair to say that if Donie doesnt

Gunneros

Gunneros wrote: »

Gunneros wrote: »

davegrohl48 wrote: »

Well I had mentioned height and mobility in reply to original point on strength and conditioning. Yes, guys like Finneran clearly don't cut it in terms of mobility. I still think at the level you need to be at for inter county which is still not professional level it can be done with the type o facilities available in Roscommon. Look what Cavan have done at u21? I don't see them having a huge advantage in facilities for strength and conditioning.
Also in terms of prep Roscommon had guys in even looking at running technique for players. So it's not as if all the angles haven't been looked at. All the preparation that goes in is still only getting the best possible effort out of a county with limited playing resources and relatively weak club football bar Brigids.
I had also mentioned it will "sort itself out naturally enough". Meaning by the law of averages Roscommon should have some guys come into the side with height and mobility. The gap went all the way back to Damien Donlon in having a good intercounty fullback. That is a long wait. Talking with Rossies indeed it does seem like the backs is strengthening with lads who are coming into it from successful minors/u21s. Still a long way to go at midfield and upfront.
Re Donal Shine/Cathal Shine they have height but they lack a little bit of pace and they don't have the ability like a guy like Donaghy in getting around the pitch or using their size advantage. But this is lacking in most forward lines especially in Connaught. Expect it to change though as development structures cotton on that the square ball rule is gone for open play and the 6'4" full forward becomes common. Panels have been slow to adapt to this yet. In terms of creating goal chances and disrupting the opposition keeper the tall full forward makes

Cathal played for clann last week but Donie didn't. Would it be fair to say that if Donie doesnt play this week it would be difficult to consider him for mayo. Would Cathal be in contention as a direct replacement or what would the likely forward line look like

Syferus

I dunno about Donie. Probably the smart thing to do is rest his hamstring away from any direct play untill a week or two before the Mayo game and then test it to see if it's holding up. He's been rushed back way too many times this year already.

Cathal would be the man if Evans wants to play the same sort of game he would if he had Donie, probably a two-man FF line with Senan and then Donie Smith playing off them. I think Cathal has some potential as a midfielder too so it depends on how Evans wants to deploy him.

Gunneros

Syferus wrote: »

I dunno about Donie. Probably the smart thing to do is rest his hamstring away from any direct play untill a week or two before the Mayo game and then test it to see if it's holding up. He's been rushed by way too many times this year already.

Cathal would be the man if Evans wants to play the same sort of game he would if he had Donie, probably a two-man FF line with Senan and then Donie Smith playing off them. I think Cathal has some potential as a midfielder too so it depends on how Evans wants to deploy him.

If Donie makes it, you could potentially have a full forward line of the 2 donies and Seanan with Cregg o gara and devanney on the half line and Cathal shine and compton as options somewhere. There is definitely a lot to work with there. If they were all fit, committed and playing well they would be a real handful for most defences including mayo.

Syferus

Gunneros wrote: »

If Donie makes it, you could potentially have a full forward line of the 2 donies and Seanan with Cregg o gara and devanney on the half line and Cathal shine and compton as options somewhere. There is definitely a lot to work with there. If they were all fit, committed and playing well they would be a real handful for most defences including mayo.

If they sync up they're the best set of forwards we've had since the team of 98-04 and perhaps even since the late 80's-90's with Tony Mac and co. The one good thing is they all have plenty of years ahead of them so we can hopefully develop them further.

Strongbow10

Cathal Shine is a big lad but nowhere near mobile enough to be a top inter county footballer, have heard this from some of his own clubmen even