Roscommon GAA Discussion Thread

yabadabado

nice_guy80 wrote: »

I very much doubt many county players are running laps
McHale has a great background in basketball, I'm willing to give them the benefit of a year building a team and sorting out the spine of the team

Have been told different.There was a S&C coach there until recently(Carr IIRC) but he left and Im not sure who took over.


I am also willing to give the team the benefit of the doubt but some of the stuff I have been told in the last few months paints a bleak picture.

PARlance

Are they running more or less laps than this time last year?

I wouldn't want him near a County setup but there's a common trend and it's not Liam McHale.

beggars_bush

TCDStudent1 wrote: »

But shouldn't they have done that last year?!

doesn't help that the full back is gone off with his fashion business

centre back is off the panel, sorry on the panel, sorry off the panel...

we haven't had a settled midfield since 2001 probably
the last proper centre forward we had was David O'Gara imho

yabadabado

A huge turnover of players/experience over the last 2 years when you look who isn't available.

Still gotta be optimistic. Cavan and Monaghan games be the ones on paper we look to have most chance of winning then we gotta hope to pick up points in the remaining games .5 games left in NFL gotta be targeting 6 points .

megadodge

Well, let's call a spade a spade - that was DISGRACEFUL!!!

It's hard to know where to start, but most obvious of all was the fact that we had absolutely no midfield whatsoever and yet insisted on taking forever to take our kickouts which were just slowly skied into a midfield that couldn't even compete! The obvious comparison with Mayo's quick picking out of a loose man IMMEDIATELY after a Roscommon score when Ros players had their backs turned to the ball and weren't even aware the ball was kicked out was perfectly encapsulated in two of their first three points. So simple.

I like Kevin, but some serious doubts must be raised with the decisions tonight. While we were getting whitewashed at midfield potentially the best midfielder we had was kept at full-forward (where he has never played in his life, not even in club matches) until the middle of the second half, whereupon he won the very first ball he contested and set up a point.

When Corcoran was at full-forward, there was obviously an instruction to hoof the ball in his general direction and expect him to work miracles. It was awful to look at, as most of the kicks were aimless.

When Fintan Cregg was taken off (and I'm not convinced he should have been) he was replaced by Ciaran Cafferkey, who was played in the half-forward line. Huh???????

Tadhg O'Rourke consistently failed to track his man and a few scores resulted from it, but he was left on for the entire match while contributing very little. And to be honest, he's not an inter-county midfielder.

McInerney was excellent again. He is at this stage, Roscommon's most consistent performer. Just does his job.

Mulloolly was quite good too, despite another stupid booking. He consistently showed and got involved. Never stopped trying.

And that's about it. Roscommon are not looking good. Unlike the first two games there was very little positive to take from tonight. I appreciate Mayo are an elite team, but the overall impression is of a team not performing and a sideline who aren't either.

megadodge

Well, today's match at least was an improvement. There was determination and spirit on display right throughout, even though some of the ongoing issues with giving the ball away far too easily were still in evidence. Strangely, Roscommon played their best football once John McManus was stupidly sent off.

I'd be interested to see how many Kerry scores came from frees in the first half, because they didn't seem hectic from play in that period, despite having a decent breeze at their backs. Most of those frees were of the pointless variety, with David Murray up to his old tricks again. I thought he had gotten out of that habit, but he gave away a number of really stupid frees in the first half and John McManus did similar until he needlessly got sent off. Both players are worth their place, but David needs to be much more disciplined in the tackle and John needs to calm down in possession.

Something that I didn't mention in the Mayo game, but meant to, as it was obvious again today was the lack of patience in Roscommon's play. There's an element of rushing everything, just because there's nothing on at that moment. Mayo the last day, gave a good display of poking and prodding and recycling until an opportunity presented itself and that's something Roscommon just don't do. Some of the fault may lay with the isolated players inside who IMO just didn't work hard enough on making themselves available for longer passes when Ros had the ball in the half-back / midfield area. There was huge areas of space to run into that Donie Smith and Cian Connolly didn't use. These two are talented players who are quick enough to lose a marker and should really be working harder to show.

And there's another thing, Cian Connolly just has to be more selfish on the ball. He does the same in club matches. Wins the ball and stands up waiting to lay it off to fellas who aren't within an asses roar of him yet, when he has the class, knackiness and finishing ability to be taking on his man every time. Plus, being smallish, there's always the old 'soft free for the small lad' factor that still works if the back makes even the slightest mistake.

Delighted to see Diarmuid Murtagh back. And straight away he made a huge difference, no sign of rust. The class is there to see and we need him badly.

I was disgusted with Kerry's systematic delaying of Roscommon's frees. Time and time again, they cynically wouldn't give the ball back / kicked the ball away / blocked or attempted to block the free and while the ref brought the ball up fairly often, it was awful to look at and obviously achieved the objective of stopping momentum and allowing Kerry players to funnel back. The fact that as a team they weren't punished for it made me think about the basketball 'team foul' rule and how it needs to be brought it into football to punish the cynical teams.

On the subject of the ref, I felt a lot of the frees he gave to Kerry were deserved, but there were definitely a number of similar situations where Roscommon players didn't receive frees that were every bit as deserving. It was frustrating, even for a person who doesn't have much history of bitching about refs - unlike some rather unreasonable Rossies behind me who complained about everything. The funny thing was, there was a group of Kerry supporters in front of us who were doing the exact same thing, even when things were going well for them. Twas like a comedy sketch at times wondering who could be more unreasonable.

nice_guy80

megadodge wrote: »

Well, today's match at least was an improvement. There was determination and spirit on display right throughout, even though some of the ongoing issues with giving the ball away far too easily were still in evidence. Strangely, Roscommon played their best football once John McManus was stupidly sent off.

I'd be interested to see how many Kerry scores came from frees in the first half, because they didn't seem hectic from play in that period, despite having a decent breeze at their backs. Most of those frees were of the pointless variety, with David Murray up to his old tricks again. I thought he had gotten out of that habit, but he gave away a number of really stupid frees in the first half and John McManus did similar until he needlessly got sent off. Both players are worth their place, but David needs to be much more disciplined in the tackle and John needs to calm down in possession.

Something that I didn't mention in the Mayo game, but meant to, as it was obvious again today was the lack of patience in Roscommon's play. There's an element of rushing everything, just because there's nothing on at that moment. Mayo the last day, gave a good display of poking and prodding and recycling until an opportunity presented itself and that's something Roscommon just don't do. Some of the fault may lay with the isolated players inside who IMO just didn't work hard enough on making themselves available for longer passes when Ros had the ball in the half-back / midfield area. There was huge areas of space to run into that Donie Smith and Cian Connolly didn't use. These two are talented players who are quick enough to lose a marker and should really be working harder to show.

And there's another thing, Cian Connolly just has to be more selfish on the ball. He does the same in club matches. Wins the ball and stands up waiting to lay it off to fellas who aren't within an asses roar of him yet, when he has the class, knackiness and finishing ability to be taking on his man every time. Plus, being smallish, there's always the old 'soft free for the small lad' factor that still works if the back makes even the slightest mistake.

Delighted to see Diarmuid Murtagh back. And straight away he made a huge difference, no sign of rust. The class is there to see and we need him badly.

I was disgusted with Kerry's systematic delaying of Roscommon's frees. Time and time again, they cynically wouldn't give the ball back / kicked the ball away / blocked or attempted to block the free and while the ref brought the ball up fairly often, it was awful to look at and obviously achieved the objective of stopping momentum and allowing Kerry players to funnel back. The fact that as a team they weren't punished for it made me think about the basketball 'team foul' rule and how it needs to be brought it into football to punish the cynical teams.

On the subject of the ref, I felt a lot of the frees he gave to Kerry were deserved, but there were definitely a number of similar situations where Roscommon players didn't receive frees that were every bit as deserving. It was frustrating, even for a person who doesn't have much history of bitching about refs - unlike some rather unreasonable Rossies behind me who complained about everything. The funny thing was, there was a group of Kerry supporters in front of us who were doing the exact same thing, even when things were going well for them. Twas like a comedy sketch at times wondering who could be more unreasonable.

Roscommon have never been a team with the patience to wait for an opportunity to score.
It stems from the fact we don't seem able to craft a space for a player to get a shot off on their strong foot, or players able to cut back inside onto the outside of their boot.

if you repeatedly slow down frees by kicking the ball away, running across the freetaker the ball should be brought up to the 21 and you're given a free shot.
I'd love to see a free taker some day just throw the ball up and swing his leg as hard as possible at a fella running across as a free is about to be taken. What could a referee do?

megadodge

nice_guy80 wrote: »

Roscommon have never been a team with the patience to wait for an opportunity to score.
It stems from the fact we don't seem able to craft a space for a player to get a shot off on their strong foot, or players able to cut back inside onto the outside of their boot.

if you repeatedly slow down frees by kicking the ball away, running across the freetaker the ball should be brought up to the 21 and you're given a free shot.
I'd love to see a free taker some day just throw the ball up and swing his leg as hard as possible at a fella running across as a free is about to be taken. What could a referee do?

Not a bad suggestion. It would instantly cut out all this crap that we are continuously subjected to.

manofwisdom

Today was the second game in a row that Roscommon conceded 1-19, any team would struggle to win div 3 games by conceding that much nevermind division one games against the best of the best.

Digging a little deeper on the Roscommon defence and midfield problems and I'm open to correction here.

2. David Murray a lad that was U21 2 or 3 years ago

3. Sean Mullooly was U21 last year

4. Niall McInerney was U21 2015 made his senior debut last year

7. Conor Devaney a forward all his career what in the hell is he doing there?


6. Sean McDermott sub off today and past his best now


5. John McManus U21 2 or 3 years ago.

8. Enda Smith a forward filling in was a U21 2 or 3 years ago

9. Tadhg O’Rourke a U21 last year.

Now while I well know about the huge turnover of players does McStay think it was wise to throw a pile of 21 to 23 years olds into midfield and defence in the unforgiving environment of division one?

Where are all the 24 to 30 year olds in Roscommon, surely the top clubs such St Brigids, Clann Na n Gael,Padrag Pearses,Western Gaels have players in that age bracket that should be given their chance at county level now instead of trying to build a team around players under the age of 23?

TheRiverman

Those missing players,where are they and why are they not playing?

megadodge

Who do you think should be in there instead?

I'm not convinced there are too many quality defenders out there that could be brought in.

rossie1977

TheRiverman wrote: »

Those missing players,where are they and why are they not playing?

Neil Collins is setting up a fashion business which involves huge amounts of travel worldwide, can't commit
Cathal cregg is finishing up phd and getting married, can't commit
Senan Kilbride retired from intercounty over the summer
His older brother Ian is currently in the Middle East on duty
Donie and Cathal shine were dropped off the panel
Conor and Ronan Daly went to America during the championship last summer so weren't picked on panel this year. Older brother Niall played first league match then left panel

rrs

David Keenan was another. He was a decent half back.

nice_guy80

rrs wrote: »

David Keenan was another. He was a decent half back.

problem with David was that he was always playing junior club football
he picked up a bad injury last September.

flandabieduzie

nice_guy80 wrote: »

problem with David was that he was always playing junior club football
he picked up a bad injury last September.

Did Meath win an all Ireland with a fair few junior club players and Claire hurlers the same? Might be wrong on that though.

He also scored a goal in croke park and has invaluable experience playing at the top level in this county.

He could have been left on the panel to upskill again after a long term injury. He's still worth a place in the top 30 imo.

Lt Dan

flandabieduzie wrote: »

Did Meath win an all Ireland with a fair few junior club players and Claire hurlers the same? Might be wrong on that though.

He also scored a goal in croke park and has invaluable experience playing at the top level in this county.

He could have been left on the panel to upskill again after a long term injury. He's still worth a place in the top 30 imo.

David Keenan most certainly did not play like a junior club footballer. Sorely missed.

The list of players is getting depressing. I can't blame Cathal Cregg or Senan Kilbride or his brother, the later has had bad injuries

Pity about Donie Shine but there is a lot of miles clocked up over the last 10 years

manofwisdom

megadodge wrote: »

Who do you think should be in there instead?

I'm not convinced there are too many quality defenders out there that could be brought in.

It's up to the county manager and his selectors to watch club football closely to see what capable defenders are there aged 24 to 30.

When Roscommon won the minor All Ireland in 2016 their success was built on a solid defence where I believe no goal was conceded throughout that championship.

From that team Roscommon lost two of its best defenders Stephen Ormsby,Peter Domican to overseas work but I think both are back home now but are they worth a recall now?

Then you had Paul Gleeson, David Flynn, Colm Garvey; James McKeague who were on the extended senior panel before but never got extended run in the side like Mullooly,McInerney,Murray etc are getting now.

nice_guy80

Junior football in Roscommon is not the same as junior football in Kerry or eg Dublin

Keenan always gave everything for the cause since he was a minor in 06

Lt Dan

nice_guy80 wrote: »

Junior football in Roscommon is not the same as junior football in Kerry or eg Dublin

Keenan always gave everything for the cause since he was a minor in 06

Suffice to say, despite St Brigid's run in Connacht and the All Ireland series, Senior Football in Roscommon is nothing like that of Dublin or Kerry either or a more competitive county like Cork.

Lt Dan

nice_guy80 wrote: »

Junior football in Roscommon is not the same as junior football in Kerry or eg Dublin

Keenan always gave everything for the cause since he was a minor in 06

Remember his cheeky goal against Cavan in the league final at Croke Park

megadodge

manofwisdom wrote: »

It's up to the county manager and his selectors to watch club football closely to see what capable defenders are there aged 24 to 30.

When Roscommon won the minor All Ireland in 2016 their success was built on a solid defence where I believe no goal was conceded throughout that championship.

From that team Roscommon lost two of its best defenders Stephen Ormsby,Peter Domican to overseas work but I think both are back home now but are they worth a recall now?

Then you had Paul Gleeson, David Flynn, Colm Garvey; James McKeague who were on the extended senior panel before but never got extended run in the side like Mullooly,McInerney,Murray etc are getting now.

Are you seriously suggesting that they haven't done so?

I'm telling you as a person who goes to club games regularly that I can't think of anyone out there at the moment who would slot straight into an inter-county defense, except Donal Ward. But I'm not sure what the story is with him from an injury perspective. He had an awful run for a few years there and I don't know if he'll ever be right. Pity, because I really rate him.

Peter Domnican was a very good defender, but he doesn't even play club football right now and hasn't for a few years, so how could you expect him to play county? Plus, I'm not convinced he'd be interested anyway.

The other names you mentioned were tried and didn't get an extended run because they weren't good enough. Simple as that. Good footballers but not up to inter-county standard.

Always_Running

For months McStay and his players have been talking relegation, from the lack of training done,experienced players lost from the panel to the it won't be the end of world if they go down.

Yes it probably won't but I highly doubt any team want to finish a league campaign without a single win under their belt which is a high possibility for Roscommon.

That said regardless of how good or bad you do in the league it's the championship the team and management will be judged on and with the championship is just 4 games away now I have just one question for the Roscommon supporters here...who will play in the key positions/spine of the team? At 1,3,6,8,9,11,14 this summer as currently with his threadbare panel McStay doesn't seem to know.

theoneeyedman

nice_guy80 wrote: »

problem with David was that he was always playing junior club football

David's club has played at Intermediate level since 2006. He was treated very poorly by the incoming management team at the start of this year in the manner in which he was dropped from the panel and told his services weren't wanted/required, and then the yarn is being spun by the Mcs that he didn't make himself available... Very shoddy treatment for a lad who has given great service to Roscommon over since 2005 or so at all levels,abd I believe indicative of the man a management skills within the current regime.

megadodge

Finally a win!

I have to admit, Cavan were a little disappointing, but still if the two points are there, take them and that's what Roscommon did where they didn't do it before.

Firstly, I want to compliment Niall Kilroy on his best ever display in a Roscommon jersey. I have criticised him before, but in fairness to the lad, he was excellent in the sweeper position today. He read the game brilliantly, took the ball at pace out of the defense and was very incisive up front, scoring three impressive points. Maybe, just maybe he might be deployed there in future? I'm still not convinced he's good enough in the forward line.

Conor Devanney was probably the best player on the pitch and is really the instigator of most that is good about Roscommon's attacking play.

Cian Connolly was very good in the first half. More incisive than usual (good), but still inclined to lay the ball off when he is easily capable of finishing. He showed this when he slotted over the first score of the game from around 60 yards out, as if it was nothing. He should take advise from Donie Smith's interview in the programme where he says he was once told "all good forwards are a little greedy".

Tom Corcoran made a spectacular introduction, running with the ball out of defense, punting a beautiful 50 yard pass into Compton then got it back and he slotted it over. He was heavily involved from then on and I really think he should start. He's physical and a good footballer.

The defense was much improved and overall the rate of turnovers was cut down dramatically, though the caveat is we were playing the weakest opposition in our division.

Taking into consideration that Cavan drew with Kerry and Tyrone and beat Mayo, I'm not sure what to make of them today. They had a huge crowd there, possibly outnumbering Roscommon supporters and they were very disappointed leaving the grounds. I think Roscommon just have the Indian sign over them. I heard one of their supporters say that Roscommon have only lost to them once in their last 11 meetings. Not sure of the accuracy but we've certainly beaten them lots in recent years.

blazermel

megadodge wrote: »

Finally a win!

I have to admit, Cavan were a little disappointing, but still if the two points are there, take them and that's what Roscommon did where they didn't do it before.

Firstly, I want to compliment Niall Kilroy on his best ever display in a Roscommon jersey. I have criticised him before, but in fairness to the lad, he was excellent in the sweeper position today. He read the game brilliantly, took the ball at pace out of the defense and was very incisive up front, scoring three impressive points. Maybe, just maybe he might be deployed there in future? I'm still not convinced he's good enough in the forward line.

Conor Devanney was probably the best player on the pitch and is really the instigator of most that is good about Roscommon's attacking play.

Cian Connolly was very good in the first half. More incisive than usual (good), but still inclined to lay the ball off when he is easily capable of finishing. He showed this when he slotted over the first score of the game from around 60 yards out, as if it was nothing. He should take advise from Donie Smith's interview in the programme where he says he was once told "all good forwards are a little greedy".

Tom Corcoran made a spectacular introduction, running with the ball out of defense, punting a beautiful 50 yard pass into Compton then got it back and he slotted it over. He was heavily involved from then on and I really think he should start. He's physical and a good footballer.

The defense was much improved and overall the rate of turnovers was cut down dramatically, though the caveat is we were playing the weakest opposition in our division.

Taking into consideration that Cavan drew with Kerry and Tyrone and beat Mayo, I'm not sure what to make of them today. They had a huge crowd there, possibly outnumbering Roscommon supporters and they were very disappointed leaving the grounds. I think Roscommon just have the Indian sign over them. I heard one of their supporters say that Roscommon have only lost to them once in their last 11 meetings. Not sure of the accuracy but we've certainly beaten them lots in recent years.

A much improved performance and at last - a bit of fight - which has been absent in recent games. Very impressed with Kilroy, he is a hard worker but unsure as to what his best position is. The way the lads defended and tackled in the second half was great to see, Cavan are a difficult team to play against at the best of times and we got the win we badly needed.

Is Ian Kilbride now back from duty with the defence forces, named at 10 today?

megadodge

blazermel wrote: »

A much improved performance and at last - a bit of fight - which has been absent in recent games. Very impressed with Kilroy, he is a hard worker but unsure as to what his best position is. The way the lads defended and tackled in the second half was great to see, Cavan are a difficult team to play against at the best of times and we got the win we badly needed.

Is Ian Kilbride now back from duty with the defence forces, named at 10 today?

Don't know if he's back, but he definitely wasn't togged today.

yabadabado

AFAIK Kilbride only home on a break and isn't finished his tour until May.

blazermel

yabadabado wrote: »

AFAIK Kilbride only home on a break and isn't finished his tour until May.

That makes sense, cheers!

BullBauld

megadodge wrote: »

Don't know if he's back, but he definitely wasn't togged today.

He definitely was togged yesterday and involved in the warm up. He was wearing the no. 10 jersey in Fintan Cregg's absence due to illness.

ahlookit

BullBauld wrote: »

He definitely was togged yesterday and involved in the warm up. He was wearing the no. 10 jersey in Fintan Cregg's absence due to illness.

Photographic evidence...

https://twitter.com/clubrossie/status/848516993779159040