Are personality-led shows RTE radios primary problem?

mike65

We all know that Ryan Tubridy is loosing listeners, and that's how we reference 2FMs main problem, we don't say is the 9 am - 11 am slot is shedding its audience.

RTEs grooming of names for programme slots might be considered wise by some as it means a show can be grown on the back of a name but what happens when the name becomes tarnished? What happens when the name presumes they are bigger than the slot they fill ("you can't sack me!")? What happens when the pubic starts to get bored?

Does the worshipping of personalities stifle creative thinking and ambition while promoting lazy complacency and inflated salaries?

Is it time for the channel controllers, producers and editors to take charge and lead from the front rather than hiding behind the voice at the mic?

This phenomena is not unique to RTE of course but we are not paying a tax to the rest and its RTE who are losing audience share as they pump out variations on a narrow theme. Could things be improved by a change in emphasis and the development of programmes that rely on content not an aural "image"?

I realise I'd be asking for a complete rethink of what RTE does, to be more like BBC radio 4/5 and less "chatty-man". Would any one at RTE even know how to do that, would the public run a mile at fact led content rather than waffle and opinion?

I just put the idea out there

eth0_

I'd agree with that. The music or news should always be 'bigger' than the presenter, except perhaps in talk/phone-in radio.

Poly

It's always the same with RTE, they shoe-horn a bunch talentless individuals into situations they have no aptitude for, always focusing on the "star" not the subject.
examples

"Miriam meets....people she's already met countless times before"
"Chalie Bird fcuks around in Antartica"
"jonh Creedon goes on Holidays"
"Dermot Gavin ponces around sh1tholes pretenting to care"
"Tubirdy does a poor imitation of Jay Leno tonight"

P. Breathnach

mike65 wrote: »

... Is it time for the channel controllers, producers and editors to take charge and lead from the front rather than hiding behind the voice at the mic? ...

That, to my mind, is the key question.

When, for example, Derek Mooney loses the run of himself the programme producer should order him to get back on track. The producer should have a recognised level of authority, so that when a presenter does not do as instructed, it becomes a disciplinary matter.

washiskin

I agree with the OP; what I would also put out there is that fact that RTE does do some things extremely well - Documentary Hour for instance, The Play on One, Ceilí House/The Rolling Wave, Sunday Miscellany, Pat Kenny (I can hear the groans but in all fairness he IS good at the serious stuff) the early morning Saturday and Sunday morning music shows, The News at One - so maybe it's time Radio knocked the personality stuff on the head and concentrated on what it does do best.

When John Kelly was on Radio 1 his show was a must listen for the music and he was very much the facilitator, Philip King on "The South Wind Blows" comes sort of close to that.

Morning Ireland has become an irritating vehicle for the likes of Áine Lawlor and Cathal McCoille to show off how sarcastic they are and not the show it was when it was headed by Richard Crowley and David Hanley (but I will conceed that towards the end of his tenure Hanley loved the sound of his own voice). I can only bear to listen when Rachel English is on.

The other thing I have an issue with is the amount of useless people who seem to cling on for years while serving no purpose other than to be a straight man/funny man side kick to the presenter (Brenda Donoghue in particular) and in relation to Mike 65 's comment about producers it seems they are more concerned with being the wing-man\woman instead of keeping an eye on the quality of the output.

Caledonman

Anyone expecting 2fm producers to do something productive, will be waiting.
I met a very senior person in there (top 4) and her comments to me included
1. we are making some cutting edge programmes here at the moment
2. they have limited budgets, and even she had to step in today to produce a programme
3. they had some very exciting and dynamic presenters... eg Hector
4. A 'Ryan Tubridy' gifted presenter comes along once every 10 years
I could go on. Like Superquinn, they have a lot of very overpaid executives, presenters and staff that are on payroll, and they have to use them. Heavily unionised!! I saw Angus McAnally when I was there... where has he been for the past 10 years?

jonniebgood1

Caledonman wrote: »

Anyone expecting 2fm producers to do something productive, will be waiting.
I met a very senior person in there (top 4) and her comments to me included
1. we are making some cutting edge programmes here at the moment
2. they have limited budgets, and even she had to step in today to produce a programme
3. they had some very exciting and dynamic presenters... eg Hector
4. A 'Ryan Tubridy' gifted presenter comes along once every 10 years
I could go on. Like Superquinn, they have a lot of very overpaid executives, presenters and staff that are on payroll, and they have to use them. Heavily unionised!! I saw Angus McAnally when I was there... where has he been for the past 10 years?

= they are delusional.

To fix a problem they would first off need to identify the problem. I was not surprised to see Tubridy figures, I found him intolerable on RTE 1 radio before his move to 2fm. I am in early 30's which should be near 2fm's target audience but I dont listen to any of their shows regularly. The only one I touch is dave Fanning every now and again. I can't understand the way Tubridy is pushed on us so much. I find his style to be smarmy, patronising, unintelligent and smarmy (yes, smarm x2).

smarm·y/ˈsmärmē/
Adjective: Ingratiating and wheedling in a way that is perceived as insincere or excessive; unctuous http://www.google.ie/#hl=en&cp=13&gs_id=1l&xhr=t&q=smarmy+definition&pf=p&sclient=psy&source=hp&pbx=1&oq=smarmy+defini&aq=0&aqi=g1g-v4&aql=&gs_sm=&gs_upl=&bav=on.2,or.r_gc.r_pw.&fp=189c50a8b89a0bb5&biw=1608&bih=850

serfboard

mike65 wrote: »

This phenomena is not unique to RTE of course

Indeed not. Let's look at some of Newstalk's non-broadcaster broadcasters:

Ivan Yates (ex-politician and now ex-bookie) - kind of annoying, thinks he's more insightful than he actually is.

Tom Dunne (ex-singer) - totally unsuited to his Newstalk role, IMO. Was brilliant in his music slot on Today FM. Why oh why was he moved? (Oh yeah, to replace the even-worse Orla Barry).

George Hook (rugby pundit). Another useless presenter. That "I'm your grumpy granda" persona doesn't make up for the very obvious lack of preparation for the show on the presenter's part.

Bobby Kerr (businessman). Terrible. And that idea of having business people present business programmes has now found its way to RTE as well (with various people filling in for George Lee while he's away).

_blank_

serfboard wrote: »

Tom Dunne (ex-singer) - totally unsuited to his Newstalk role, IMO. Was brilliant in his music slot on Today FM. Why oh why was he moved? (Oh yeah, to replace the even-worse Orla Barry).

When Tom Dunne used to fill in for Ray D'Arcy on Today FM, there were always positive comments on this forum about him doing the 2.5 hour talk/music/human interest show, and he was very good when he did that.

serfboard

Des wrote: »

When Tom Dunne used to fill in for Ray D'Arcy on Today FM, there were always positive comments on this forum about him doing the 2.5 hour talk/music/human interest show

Interesting - I didn't know that. That's presumably why they felt he could do the Newstalk slot. However, they've reduced his show from 3 hours to 2, so they obviously think he was over-extended.

Des wrote: »

and he was very good when he did that.

Could have been - I didn't hear it so I can't say. As a matter of interest, do you think he's good now? And if not, what do you think is the cause? Production, co-presenters (or lack of), something else?

Losty Dublin

Caledonman wrote: »

I saw Angus McAnally when I was there... where has he been for the past 10 years?

Aengus produces Derek Mooney's show and makes the odd feature appearance on the show; he also covers the show when Mooney's away.

Wertz

Personality lead shows aren't necessarily the problem...it's the personalities that are chosen to lead in my estimation. I don't know how RTÉ pick out their personalities, but to me it seems that most of them are either foisted upon the public, at the behest of those who know best in the management or seem to wheedle their way in through longevity in lesser roles over the years at the station. In the face of any criticism from the public or press critics, they stalwarthly stick to their guns and try to wait it out until listeners just get used to the personality.
There is always going to be a dose of familiarity breeding contempt unless someone you listen to regularly is endearing and good at what they do, or the content of the show makes the host bearable.

BBC are no saints in respect of leading with personalities on some stations (R2 and R1 especially, although they tend to keep things moving somewhat on the youth station, with the exception of Moyles), but they manage to avoid it on R4 (mostly due to the nature of content, I can only think of Today, Desert Island Discs and some of the comedy quizzes that keep the same hosts for years).
I think the trick is to make sure that no-one becomes bigger than the show they take on, unless they're really very good at it.
At certain ages too, audiences like the familiar and don't like sudden change, so I think programmers need to take that into account...there is such a thing as flogging a dead horse though...

RayM

Right now, while Derek Mooney is probably blathering on about Jedward or ABBA or something equally inconsequential, BBC Radio 4 is playing a series of Irish short stories. After that, a documentary about the rise and fall of Khrushchev. Then, Professor Laurie Taylor presents Thinking Allowed - today, they're discussing the link between death and photography.

I know Radio 4 has a larger budget than RTE, but the difference in quality of programmes is astonishing. During the day, RTE Radio just spoon-feeds its audience pointless blather and bullshit. Background noise, basically. The BBC, on the other hand, actually makes an effort to entertain and inform. Switching between the two is like switching between different planets.

Wertz

Yeah was just listening to that in the b/g myself...was that Gleeson narrating that Doyle story? Missed the last 5 min, the phone went...

RayM

Wertz wrote: »

Yeah was just listening to that in the b/g myself...was that Gleeson narrating that Doyle story? Missed the last 5 min, the phone went...

I'm pretty sure it was Brendan Gleeson.

I can't help wondering, is there really that much of a difference between Irish and British radio audiences? Would listenership figures here collapse if RTE suddenly started broadcasting interesting documentaries, plays, short stories and intelligent discussion shows, rather than giving the likes of Tubridy and Mooney free reign to feed their audience a diet of self-indulgent, mindless trivia?

serfboard

RayM wrote: »

Would listenership figures here collapse if RTE suddenly started broadcasting interesting documentaries, plays, short stories and intelligent discussion shows

IMO, yes - without a specially created Channel, like Radio 4.

It's all to do with the way the two stations are funded. BBC doesn't need/get advertising, so it's not necessarily chasing ratings (although it mustn't be unpopular either, otherwise people will complain about how their licence fee is spent). RTE needs advertising, which means numbers which means JNLR. When you are chasing numbers, the lowest common denominator will always win out. Documentaries and particularly plays and the like will not attract a mass audience and so can only be confined to off-peak.

Radio 4 is a (national) minority station. RTE don't have the funds for the same thing. Try RTE Choice if you're looking for an intelligent channel. Unfortunately you can only get it digitally. And funnily enough, it contains some BBC content!

mike65

RayM wrote: »

Right now, while Derek Mooney is probably blathering on about Jedward or ABBA or something equally inconsequential, BBC Radio 4 is playing a series of Irish short stories. After that, a documentary about the rise and fall of Khrushchev. Then, Professor Laurie Taylor presents Thinking Allowed - today, they're discussing the link between death and photography.

I know Radio 4 has a larger budget than RTE, but the difference in quality of programmes is astonishing. During the day, RTE Radio just spoon-feeds its audience pointless blather and bullshit. Background noise, basically. The BBC, on the other hand, actually makes an effort to entertain and inform. Switching between the two is like switching between different planets.

Fcuking hell, Ray this is the post I had intended to er post but I got distracted by thoughts of tea. I was also listening to the above and the exact same thought struck me re Mooney/Nikita Krushrushev & Thinking Allowed contrast. Mid-late afternoon brain food rather than the anaesthetising nonsense RTE pump out relentlessly Monday to Friday.

Onthe3rdDay

It might gain back some listeners from BBC RADIO and especially BBC Radio's 4 and 5, listeners that are not served by RTE 95% of the time. I know loads of people that go to great lengths to listen to Both stations.

You can put the fear of God into certain individuals if you say anything about BBC radio 4 leaving Long Wave.