Cave. GONE. Irem. GONE.

Pyongyang

Slightly misleading thread title, I apologize, but it's semi-true.

According to this thread which links to and discusses Cave's fiscal results for the last year, it appears they are possibly planning to drop all future console development and concentrate on smartphones and in-game smartphone dlc items (see iOS for example) ONLY.

If the above is true, that's truly a sad day in gaming. Here's the link:

http://www.the-nextlevel.com/tnl/threads/50081-Cave-Xbox-360-OMG?p=1064640221#post1064640221

Looks like Irem is closing it's doors too, or at least it's PSN ones:

http://www.andriasang.com/e/blog/2011/07/22/irem_psn/

Retr0gamer

Japan is ****ed. The only company I heard that hasn't posted huge losses over there is Idea Fuck, I mean Factory, who make some of te worse games ever made but appeal to the otaku crowd and are made on zero budget.

I think Cave should reconsider developing for PS3 which would increase their userbase by a whole lot more in japan and look to self publishing their games as Downloadables in the west. The report is no surprise since I'm betting they don't make much on their arcade and 360 games yet make a whole lot on smart phones and from Shin Megami Tensei Imagine which I've been told has developed into a really excellent F2P MMO.

Pyongyang

I agree they need to expand their horizons, adding the PS3 to their roster is a good idea but may add to financial woes due to development costs.

For an immediate cash boost, just shove their back catalogue on XBLA/Steam and watch the €, £, $ and ¥ roll in. The fan base is there, push it out to them digitally, cut out physical distribution costs etc.

Same goes for Irem.

Retr0gamer

Irem are taking the opposite approach and taking everything down off PSN!

I'm really upset that Bumpy Trot 2 got cancelled and the Disaster Report game. Two of the most interesting game series to come out of japan.

johnny_ultimate

Don't know why so many smaller developers and publishers are hostile towards PS3. Well, physical releases are obviously too high. Maybe there's an exclusivity deal with Microsoft? Who knows!

I'm not surprised at all about the downfall of their arcade business. Shmups are niche even in Japan, so it's a constant struggle especially with arcades increasingly getting rid of 'traditional' arcade genres in favour of photo booths, fancy new cabs and those weird card game things the Japanese love so much. Bullet hell is a further niche, so yeah Cave are always going to financially struggle no matter how happy their fans are. It's a small fanbase: they simply need to reach a wider one.

Also curious to see how Shmups are consumed in different territories. In Japan they tend to be released full price, premium products. Like anime boxsets or DVDs, the goal is to get a small amount of people to buy a costly item rather than lots of people buying a cheap item. It's why you see silly levels of success for first print special editions. Here, they're downloadable or budget. Shooters just aren't perceived as worth spending much money on by many people. So a shift towards iOS - and even there they're rather costly for the casual app buyer - and digital distribution is really the only way to get products out at an affordable price, for both Cave and the consumer.

Mourn the vertical Egret, but it's a niche that is lucky to be still hanging in there as it is.

o1s1n

14 shows that over Q3-4 of 2010 that Social/Smartphone apps have brought in roughly 42% of revenue while arcade/console brought in 14.5%.

Holy **** that's insane.

The last place in the world I want to be playing CAVE games is on a bloody smart phone.

What we need now is a JAMMA to iphone adapter :pac:

Pyongyang

I love playing SHMUPS on my iPad (I'm due to swap out my HTC Desire for a new iPhone 4 this week too ) but I wouldn't call it my format of choice.

Realistically though the arcade market really is not 'there', especially in the West. If it's hard enough to find the market/income in Japan for it then goodness knows how hard it is/would be over here. I can see Cave's logic to a certain extent.

However, and again using Cave as a prime example, they really have shot themselves in the foot by not embracing online services as well as they could have. Again, forget localizing, no-one cares about Japanese text as far as SHMUPS go. Just throw the stuff on XBLA/PSN/Steam and be done with it. Cut the distro costs, cut the marketing costs, reap the rewards.

As I've stated in other threads past, I am of the firm belief that the future, and indeed the survival of small game companies such as Cave lieth within the realms of the digital download.

o1s1n

I can see their logic from a business point of view as afterall, they do need to make money to survive.

Perhaps I'm just a dinosaur, but if the future of the company is strictly smart phone/ipad type devices - I won't be buying any more of their games.

And if I do it'll be to have a five minute tinker about on. Certainly wouldn't dedicate any time to that. Would rather just stick to their back catalog on arcade boards/consoles.

megaten

johnny_ultimate wrote: »

Don't know why so many smaller developers and publishers are hostile towards PS3. Well, physical releases are obviously too high. Maybe there's an exclusivity deal with Microsoft? Who knows!

I'm not surprised at all about the downfall of their arcade business. Shmups are niche even in Japan, so it's a constant struggle especially with arcades increasingly getting rid of 'traditional' arcade genres in favour of photo booths, fancy new cabs and those weird card game things the Japanese love so much. Bullet hell is a further niche, so yeah Cave are always going to financially struggle no matter how happy their fans are. It's a small fanbase: they simply need to reach a wider one.

Also curious to see how Shmups are consumed in different territories. In Japan they tend to be released full price, premium products. Like anime boxsets or DVDs, the goal is to get a small amount of people to buy a costly item rather than lots of people buying a cheap item. It's why you see silly levels of success for first print special editions. Here, they're downloadable or budget. Shooters just aren't perceived as worth spending much money on by many people. So a shift towards iOS - and even there they're rather costly for the casual app buyer - and digital distribution is really the only way to get products out at an affordable price, for both Cave and the consumer.

Mourn the vertical Egret, but it's a niche that is lucky to be still hanging in there as it is.

It's not shump dev's that are hostile to sony. It's sony that are hostile to them. Xbox also has cheaper dev kits so that's why shmup developers release games for it.

Retr0gamer

Also the companies do have to spend money on localising their games because MS and Sony have very strict and sometimes stupid guidelines that have to be followed before they let you release on their service.

johnny_ultimate

Japanese PSN is a bit of a haven for retro shmups though. Alas, Cave's PS1 releases aren't particularly numerous - DonPachi and DoDonPachi as far as I can tell? So they probably aren't getting steady income from there. Not that it helped Irem in any case...

I think there's only a single shmup that has received a physical release on the PS3, and that's a bit of an offbeat twin stick shooter. Blu-Ray costs are just too high for companies with a niche fanbase. A cheap 360 DVD retail port will probably be profitable even with only a small amount of customers. A PS3 port will likely cost more and be a challenge to recoup the costs. I'm guessing it's the same reason Deadly Premonition hasn't been picked up by any Western publishers on the PS3?

Then again, the guaranteed region free nature of PS3 might encourage high import sales. But Cave definitely seem to be cautiously pursuing a policy of overseas expansion, so it's probably a very considered choice on their half to keep certain titles region locked.

I agree the smartphone apps are more a novelty than an ideal way to play. Nice to have, but would be a shame to lose home console ports which are most definitely the optimal porting method.

Retr0gamer

Cave aren't looking for any overseas expansion. If they keep their games region locked it's more enticing for a western publisher to pick up their games. They'll receive far more money from a western label licensing their game for sale in the West than they will from sales to the West of region free games. There's not a lot of importing from japan these days. With the strong yen the days of getting a new release for 40 euro are gone. It can run up to 80-90 euros for a vanilla release.

johnny_ultimate

Retr0gamer wrote: »

Cave aren't looking for any overseas expansion. If they keep their games region locked it's more enticing for a western publisher to pick up their games. They'll receive far more money from a western label licensing their game for sale in the West than they will from sales to the West of region free games. There's not a lot of importing from japan these days. With the strong yen the days of getting a new release for 40 euro are gone. It can run up to 80-90 euros for a vanilla release.

Not entirely true. While I think they've formed a fruitful relationship with Rising Star, the relative failure of Death Smiles in the US has meant Cave seem slightly toxic to US publishers. You'll find them focusing more on internal digital distribution - Guwange or Nin2Jump on XBLA, or more interestingly the games on demand 'import' of Death Smiles IIX.

While it's only beneficial for them to have an overseas publisher do it for them, they're definitely making an effort to expand into non-Japanese markets themselves. There's a market there, albeit one that needs to be reached with a minimum of cost.