John Halligan withdraws support for David Norris

decies

Well was this the correct decision or not?

Minstrel27

Yes it was. No politician should use his or her position to gain favours for anyone, let alone someone who pleads guilty to statutory rape.

torrentum

He should step out of the presidential race and the senate too

mike65

Makes sense for Halligan, he has little to gain and a bit to lose, esp if something else should yet come out

Godsentme

Oh yeah.:rolleyes:

Halligan is dab hand at deserting a sinking ship. The Workers Party was another ship he jumped when it looked like it wasn't going be any benefit any more to John Halligan.

Minstrel27

Godsentme wrote: »

Oh yeah.:rolleyes:

Halligan is dab hand at deserting a sinking ship. The Workers Party was another ship he jumped when it looked like it wasn't going be any benefit any more to John Halligan.

You think he should have continued to support David Norris do you?

MitchKoobski

Oh christ here we go....

Silverado

What is wrong with letting the people decide at election time. Is that not true democracy?

mike65

That would require an outbreak of real democracy rather than candidates having to pimp themselves

Godsentme

Minstrel27 wrote: »

You think he should have continued to support David Norris do you?

He shouldn't have thrown his hat in the Norris ring in the first place!

He was elected to represent the people of Waterford and do his best for the county, not to toady up to anyone he feels might benefit himself. he is getting well paid to look after us. Plus the outragious "handouts", euphemistically known as "Expenses". No wonder the country is shagged.

Halligan also gets leaders allowance of €41,000 plus they all get an allowance of €26,000 a year to run constituency offices and they also all get a p.a. at a cost of at least €30,000 a year plus he or she gets expenses!

Dan133269

Godsentme wrote: »

He shouldn't have thrown his hat in the Norris ring in the first place!

He was elected to represent the people of Waterford and do his best for the county, not to toady up to anyone he feels might benefit himself. he is getting well paid to look after us. Plus the outragious "handouts", euphemistically known as "Expenses". No wonder the country is shagged.

Halligan also gets leaders allowance of €41,000 plus they all get an allowance of €26,000 a year to run constituency offices and they also all get a p.a. at a cost of at least €30,000 a year plus he or she gets expenses!

What in the name of christ are you scuttering on about? trying to back up your point about Halligan making a bad decision about a presidential candidate by how much money he earns?

And as for deserting a sinking ship, Halligan said he was unaware of what went on in 1997, as I think everyone was. He didn't pledge his unconditional support of Norris running for President at the outset. Norris tried to use his political influence in a dishonest manner to plea for leniency for a sex offender. It was dishonest because he did it not in a personal capacity but rather in his capacity as an elected representative and potential future Presidential candidate which he specifically alluded to in his letter. The news broke what happened, and Halligan decides it would not be right for him personally to nominate Norris to run for the Presidency.

So, you on the other hand would actively remain committed to someone who did those acts just because you said you would support them at one point? There's a difference between loyalty and integrity you know. Halligan made the right call in my opinion.

And as for deserting sinking ship with socialist party, as far as I know that was down to party policy which he didn't agree with.

deisemum

I think David Norris is expected to call a press conference later today.

I was backing David Norris until this scandal broke. I view it in the same way as a bishop trying to get a lenient sentence for a priest who's been found guilty of child sex abuse which should not be condoned.

Cabaal

Have to say what bothers me about this whole Norris thing is the very clear witch hunt that has gone on against him, you can guarantee that if you go digging deep enough you'll find crap about the rest of the people too but nobody is doing it.

Norris made mistakes but you have to wonder why he is being targeted so much, are they scared he might win?

Even with the most recent events he's still topping the poll on the likes of thejournal.ie with 43% of the vote with with Higgins at 17% followed by none of the candidates listed at 16% - http://www.thejournal.ie/poll-who-would-get-your-vote-to-be-the-next-president-191121-Aug2011/?voted=1

You have to ask why is Norris getting flack and Mitchell is getting feck all for the likes of - http://www.rte.ie/news/2003/0903/deathrow.html who was Mitchell to start interfering with the US justice system in respect of a murderer?

I say if Norris wants to run then leave him run, let the people vote.
If people have an issue with him then he won't get the votes and as such people have nothing to worry about.

Max Powers

Halligan was right to withdraw support, the comments made 10 years ago were seen to be out of context by most people but supporting a rapist is not good in anyones book. Would you like it if you were related to the boy that was raped.

The most interesting thing I think is what did Norris say or do to get the Israelis back up? They leaked the info, they have track records in such interventions who show slightest criticisim of Israel.

deisemum

There's a witch hunt alright and in any poll he's a clear favourite so a big threat to the rest of the candidates.

The finger of suspicion has been pointed at Michael D. Higgins who's come out and said it's not him that's leaking the scandals surrounding David Norris.

Sully

I wouldn't put this into the category of a simple "mistake" we should just forgive and forget. He is getting a VERY easy time considering it was on official headed paper even though it had nothing to do with Ireland or the Seanad.

Considering the accusations laid before him in the past which he has denied always, this seems to just cast further doubt on those accusations he denied and make me far more uncomfortable.

The role of the president, regardless of it being a tad pointless here, is still very important and should be treated that way. Norris is seeking the support from TDs before going forward - but these TDs are rightly withdrawing support as a personal choice considering what he did.

Electing someone with these beliefs would damage the role and make a mockery of our system.

seanybiker

I read the letters last night. Funnily enough they where PDF files (geddit?).I can't see how anyone could vouch for him anymore. He's very egotistical and never should have sent those letters. Your man halligan is right to withdraw support.

Dan133269

deisemum wrote: »

I think David Norris is expected to call a press conference later today.

I was backing David Norris until this scandal broke. I view it in the same way as a bishop trying to get a lenient sentence for a priest who's been found guilty of child sex abuse which should not be condoned.

I think what he did was bad, but those 2 situations are completely different in my opinion. What bishops have been covering up is the rape of little children, forced rape where the victim has not consented in fact, rape in the normal sense of the word.

The situation with Norris' ex-partner is different, he committed what is commonly referred to as statutory rape i.e. the victim did consent to the act but in the eyes of the law, he was incapable of giving legal consent as he was not old enough. Definitely wrong and immoral, but I just think it's different to the above situation.

Cabaal wrote: »

Have to say what bothers me about this whole Norris thing is the very clear witch hunt that has gone on against him, you can guarantee that if you go digging deep enough you'll find crap about the rest of the people too but nobody is doing it.

Norris made mistakes but you have to wonder why he is being targeted so much, are they scared he might win?

Even with the most recent events he's still topping the poll on the likes of thejournal.ie with 43% of the vote with with Higgins at 17% followed by none of the candidates listed at 16% - http://www.thejournal.ie/poll-who-would-get-your-vote-to-be-the-next-president-191121-Aug2011/?voted=1

You have to ask why is Norris getting flack and Mitchell is getting feck all for the likes of - http://www.rte.ie/news/2003/0903/deathrow.html who was Mitchell to start interfering with the US justice system in respect of a murderer?

I say if Norris wants to run then leave him run, let the people vote.
If people have an issue with him then he won't get the votes and as such people have nothing to worry about.

I don't understand this whole mentality of a witch-hunt, out to sabotage Norris' campaign. The whole incident is purely factual, and was carried out in the public domain. It just slipped under the door at the time.

Godsentme

This thread is called John Halligan withdraws support for Norris.
Its turned into a debate on Norris's suitability for the Aras. Thers plenty of other threads about him if you look. lets stick to the subject matter.

John Halligan is not exactly a heavyweight figure in National circles, so who he choses to back in a Presidential campaign is not going to push him/her into the Aras. Neither are the other shower of ( up to now) toadies. (See picture page 3 of todays Mail. Its like a bunch of waxworks drunks!)

My basic point, as a very heavily taxed and under paid worker, with no dubious expenses claims, was, that Halligan should get on with the job he is privliged and higly paid to have should give his undevided attention to doing that job.

Represent the people of Waterford. Full Stop.

takola

Godsentme wrote: »

This thread is called John Halligan withdraws support for Norris.
Its turned into a debate on Norris's suitability for the Aras. Thers plenty of other threads about him if you look. lets stick to the subject matter.

If you have a problem with a post(s) please report it. Back seat modding is against the forum rules, and it tends to irritate pretty much everyone on the internet.

Sully

Godsentme wrote: »

This thread is called John Halligan withdraws support for Norris.
Its turned into a debate on Norris's suitability for the Aras. Thers plenty of other threads about him if you look. lets stick to the subject matter.

John Halligan is not exactly a heavyweight figure in National circles, so who he choses to back in a Presidential campaign is not going to push him/her into the Aras. Neither are the other shower of ( up to now) toadies. (See picture page 3 of todays Mail. Its like a bunch of waxworks drunks!)

My basic point, as a very heavily taxed and under paid worker, with no dubious expenses claims, was, that Halligan should get on with the job he is privliged and higly paid to have should give his undevided attention to doing that job.

Represent the people of Waterford. Full Stop.

If I am not mistaken, John IS representing the people of Waterford in this decision.

Unless there has been some change and we don't get to vote in the Presidential Election here in Waterford?

Also, Norris needed 20 TDs to back him. No party was ever going to back a candidate outside their own ranks. That leaves the Independents. So Norris needed Halligans support, and was getting it until it came out that he wrote on official headed state paper to go easy on his ex partner who had underage sex with a 15 year old!!!!!

In this circle, Halligan is very much a heavyweight. The pool of people Norris can call upon is very small, and whether you think they are all a pack of drunks is your own view but Norris would think different. He needs all the support he can get and there isn't much out there to try convince to come around to supporting him.

Halligan represents me, and he is representing my views here as I would not like such a candidate running in an election.

Yes Boss

I hope the other candidate that wrote a letter of support for a murderer in the USA is treated the same way.:rolleyes:

Sully

He has stepped down from the race. An appropriate move, but it was pretty much a gun to the head moment.

I feel bad for him, as I can see he had the passion and interest, but this was to much.

MitchKoobski

The part that disappoints me about Norris withdrawing completely is that now we're just left with a load of cracp to pick from.

Fair play to John for thinking about it and asking people for their opinions before making his decision.

homolumo

Supposedly Gay Mitchell wrote a letter of 'support' for a double murderer in the US, shouldn't he go too?

Sully

homolumo wrote: »

Supposedly Gay Mitchell wrote a letter of 'support' for a double murderer in the US, shouldn't he go too?

This thread is talking about Halligan and his reasons for withdrawing support. Right or wrong.

I'd prefer we didn't engage in an all rounder topic about the president, as its being discussed in the Politics forum already.

rasper

I think he should have kept his support for him to be on the ticket, and just let the people not the partys decide, although no doubts Norris would've fared poorly Id imagine

Bards

I just think it is more of the "Establishment" dictating to us little people who we can and cannot vote for - He coul dhave easly said "I'm still going to support Norris and let the people decide if he is fit for the presediency" - That's the last time I'm voting for John Halligan in an election

AdMMM

The complete lack of political experience among his campaign team is a big contributing factor to how events transpired. The campaign seemed to be so focused on generating column inches and general publicity that no attention was paid to the flank i.e. the dirty element of Irish Politics (which is actually quite tame compared to the likes of the US). They did not comb through his history looking for potential scandals and for ways to protect him from it. In the end, Norris was blindsided by a story for which a plan should have been made for. Other candidates have overcome far greater scandals and with a competent team, David could have overcome this.

Once his team started to resign, he was toast. The second the letter came out into the public domain and David decided to maintain radio silence, the 14 members supporting him came under incredible pressure. By refusing to engage with the media, David turned the attention away from himself and onto those who supported him. With no way of contacting him, they were essentially left in the political equivalent of no-mans land.

At that point I think all his supporters realised that he was unsupportable. He had abused his position as a politician. In this climate, a Independent politician, many of whom campaigned on a platform of ending this sort of controversial practice, cannot support a candidate who has abused their position.

It is a shame though and I do feel very sorry for the man.

AdMMM

Have to say what bothers me about this whole Norris thing is the very clear witch hunt that has gone on against him, you can guarantee that if you go digging deep enough you'll find crap about the rest of the people too but nobody is doing it.

You will now see the media dig deep into the past of the other main candidates. The reason why Norris was such easy pickings was because he had an inexperienced team who didn't know how to defend their candidate. Also, as such an outspoken candidate, it was more likely that there was material in Norris' past that would have been easy to find.

seanybiker

Bards wrote: »

I just think it is more of the "Establishment" dictating to us little people who we can and cannot vote for - He coul dhave easly said "I'm still going to support Norris and let the people decide if he is fit for the presediency" - That's the last time I'm voting for John Halligan in an election

damned if you do and damned if you don't.