Rent reduction and renting in apartment for another year

BobSmith128

As the title says - currently renting in the city centre in a 2 bed apartment with a friend. Renewal date is approaching in the next 2 months - so we'll chance our arm at a rent reduction.

As we want to stay on renting in the apartment we need to inform the letting agency of this. However at the same time we'd like to reduce the rent. (Recession and all that - trying to save a little bit extra!)

So I'm wondering what would be the best approach here?
We're planning to put something in writing - about staying on another year.
But also we want to raise the issue of a rent reduction.

Obviously if the landlord sees we're interested in staying on - then it would probably reduce the chance of a rent reduction.
So the wording of the request needs to be carefully done.

So if anyone has any advise - or has been in this situation before, please let me know.
Should an initial rent reduction query letter be sent? Or both requests be sent together?
Or should I do a different approach altogether?

Cheers,
Bob

silja

Definitely send the two together- a stable tenant is worth keeping, but if they don't know you are willing to stay a whole other year (as opposed to just a few month), they may not agree to the reduction. Just do your homework, have a look at similar properties in the area, then ask for a reduction to slightly below that (to give some wiggle room as LL will probably come back with a counter offer), in return for signing a new one year lease. That is what my last tenants did and I happily agreed.

Newaglish

I did it last year in person with my landlord, although you can easily do it in a letter also. I just explained that I had been looking at different apartments/houses and felt I could get a better deal elsewhere; although if I could get a €100pm reduction on the rent, it would make sense as it would save me the bother of moving and save him the hassle/lost revenue of looking for another tenant.

One thing I did also was request a 6-month lease, not because I wanted one but because I wanted to be able to compromise without losing anything - i.e. I would agree to a 12-month contract if they would meet me halfway with a rent reduction.

irlirishkev

Just be honest. Tell the landlord that you'd like to stay on, but you can get somewhere else for a bit cheaper. If he can reduce the rent, then you'd be happy to stay on for another year.
That's exactly what my tenants said to me last year, and I dropped the rent. They got a rent reduction, and I didn't have the hassle of (a) losing good tenants, and (b) trying to find new tenants.

xper

Newaglish wrote: »

One thing I did also was request a 6-month lease, not because I wanted one but because I wanted to be able to compromise without losing anything - i.e. I would agree to a 12-month contract if they would meet me halfway with a rent reduction.

For the tenant, there's no need to offer to sign any new lease if the current terms, including monthly rent aren't going to change. You only offer/agree to a new lease if there is something in it for you, a rent reduction being the most obvious plus. Otherwise, having been in the tenancy for over six months, you just go into Part 4 tenancy under the original leases terms with a much shorter period required for giving notice to the landlord of leaving than any reasonable lease length.

In the OP's case, the timing is perfect. He can notify the landlord in writing of his/her intention to take up Part 4 Tenancy when the current fixed term lease ends. (You're supposed to do this between 3 and 1 month before the lease ends but you're entitled to it anyway). At the same time, he/she can can request a lower rent in return for signing a new fixed term lease, commiting them to x months occupancy. I'd prefer to bring this up in conversation first rather than by letter, it can look awkward on paper. Depends on your landlord and contact arrangements really.

BobSmith128

Guys, thanks for the information. It was very useful in helping me write a letter to the Management Company.
Basically I composed it to say that we are looking for a rent reduction and based on this - we'd be willing to sign another fixed term lease (didn't specify period). Also I mentioned about Part 4 tenancy but didn't outright say that we were exercising this option. I had hoped for the landlord to come back with an offer and then if I didn't like it - we'd exercise this option.

However several weeks have passed and after sending a registered letter to the Management Company - we rang them. Although they signed for the letter - they hadn't opened it and our phone call was the first they've heard about it.

Eventually after another day or so - they came back stating that there is still 2 months to run on the lease and the landlord hasn't decided. Also that market is showing an improvement in rents and that they would benchmark a rent at the end of this month. (Their words)

So as I view rentals prices dropping (I use Property-Bee for Firefox) in the area I'm living - I find it very hard to justify a rental increase. But I suppose if it did come to it and they increased the rent - do they have supply information for this increase?

Also for a fixed 1 year lease - when does the landlord need to inform the tenant of his decision (based on above) - is it month's notice (i.e end of month 11 of 12)? Or would it be longer?

Thanks,
Bob

swirlser

Well its spiel about the increase, but unfortunately Dublin rents have showed little movement in the last 12 months.

So the question is, how happy are you there and when was the rent your paying now currently set? If you didnt haggle anything off originally and the rent wasnt particularly well priced then you may be in with a chance of a reduction.

I can tell you that in only 2 occasions that Ive extended a lease, both involved a reduction and both times I was told from the letting agent that the LL was going to reject my offer... and on both occasions with 1 day shy of a month remaining my price was agreed to!

Best advice is to look around and see what you can get for your money (keeping in mind that you can get a little off asking, eg - if your paying 1200 a month now, look at properties seeking 1200 pm and expect to pay 1100-1150 for them). And dont forget, as much of a pain as moving is, LLs dont like it either - there can be weeks (even months if hes greedy and we know some are, dont we? ) where the property is generating zero income, doesnt take a math wiz to work out that if he doesnt have a fresh tenant ready to move in pretty quickly, he is down money even getting the same rent.

BobSmith128

We are happy to stay but if it came to it - we would leave. Rent was set when the lease was signed and we did get a bit knocked off it.

I'm not really interested in signing a new lease unless the rent reduction is significant - Part 4 tenancy suits me. If that means no rent reduction then I can live with that. Of course I wouldn't say no to a rent reduction

What I am wondering is if the landlord and management company don't like me going into Part 4 tenancy and try to raise the rent in the hope of getting me to leave. I'm just wondering if there was a rent increase - what proof would they need to show me? None?

I do monitor similar properties in the area and yes there have been falls. Usually landlords start of rents 100 or 200 higher than mine but they fall within a month to within 50 euro plus or minus of mine.

Magicmatilda

If he tries to raise the rent just tell him you are leaving. He cannot agree to give to Part 4 or not. You automatically move to part 4 at the end of your lease under the same terms as the lease i.e. same rent. This is an entitlement. The landlord can only then break the part 4 in very specific condition i.e. he is selling, him or a family member is moving in and I think 4 other situations.

BobSmith128

Okay so got word from the Management agency that there will be no rent reduction. Not too surprised there but it was worth a go. Anyway we are now in Part 4 tenancy (well for 6 months now) and that our lease ends at the end of October - we only have to give 6 weeks notices under the terms of the 2004 act.

So I'm happy with this - just one question are we under any obligation to sign a new contract? From my conversation with the agency they said that we would sign something like a 6 month contract with a break lease built in - which would allow us to give 30 days notice if we left before the lease was up. The agent said its required practice for all tenants who rent with their company who go into their 2nd year (and beyond).

From my understanding the above - we will still have the flexibility to leave with minimum notice period - however from my limited understanding of the Residents Tenancies Act 2004 - we do not have to sign any new contact and can continue to rent and give 6 weeks notice when we decide to leave.
The agent said that if we don't sign the contact we cannot stay on.

As I don't have full understanding here - could anyone with previous experience help out here? Are we under any obligation to sign a new contact?
Or can we continue to rent without signing a lease and give the required notice at our chosen time?

Ciara22

BobSmith128 wrote: »

Okay so got word from the Management agency that there will be no rent reduction. Not too surprised there but it was worth a go. Anyway we are now in Part 4 tenancy (well for 6 months now) and that our lease ends at the end of October - we only have to give 6 weeks notices under the terms of the 2004 act.

So I'm happy with this - just one question are we under any obligation to sign a new contract? From my conversation with the agency they said that we would sign something like a 6 month contract with a break lease built in - which would allow us to give 30 days notice if we left before the lease was up. The agent said its required practice for all tenants who rent with their company who go into their 2nd year (and beyond).

From my understanding the above - we will still have the flexibility to leave with minimum notice period - however from my limited understanding of the Residents Tenancies Act 2004 - we do not have to sign any new contact and can continue to rent and give 6 weeks notice when we decide to leave.
The agent said that if we don't sign the contact we cannot stay on.

As I don't have full understanding here - could anyone with previous experience help out here? Are we under any obligation to sign a new contact?
Or can we continue to rent without signing a lease and give the required notice at our chosen time?

Hi Bob,

In short, no, you dont have to sign anything, you are automatically on a Part 4 tenancy when the previous one expires. However, if you choose this, your notice period will be based on the amount of time you have been in residence at the property (ie over 1 year) so it would be 42 days notice.

However, from what the agency are now offering you, they are only asking for 30 days notice so it might actually be a better offer! Its completely false for them to tell you that you cant stay on unless you sign the document. Im amazed at how incompetent some agencies are and they dont even know the basics of the RTA.

But make sure you read the lease fully before signing and that its not a 1 year fixed term lease with a 6 month break clause built in. This means that at the 6 month mark, you can decide to leave. If not, you have to stay the following 6 months.

If its clearly marked as a Part 4 or a Month to Month tenancy, stating the notice period as 30 days, then sign up

xper

BobSmith128 wrote: »

...So I'm happy with this - just one question are we under any obligation to sign a new contract?

No.

From my conversation with the agency they said that we would sign something like a 6 month contract with a break lease built in - which would allow us to give 30 days notice if we left before the lease was up.

Very weird. I'd go through the conditions with a fine toothcoomb. What is the point of such a contract from their point of view? On the face of it, it gives you slightly better terms in terms of minimum notice than a part 4 tenancy (which would still be in play). So I'd be wary that what they say now and what is written down when the document is put in front of you is not quite the same thing. I am not saying don't sign it if the slightly shorter notice is of use to you but do read it and understand all its clauses before doing so. If you don't like the smell of it, don't sign, you have tenancy anyway.

The agent said its required practice for all tenants who rent with their company who go into their 2nd year (and beyond).

They're talking absolute horse****.

From my understanding the above - we will still have the flexibility to leave with minimum notice period - however from my limited understanding of the Residents Tenancies Act 2004 - we do not have to sign any new contact and can continue to rent and give 6 weeks notice when we decide to leave.

You have a better grasp of the regulations than they do.

The agent said that if we don't sign the contact we cannot stay on.

More manure.

As I don't have full understanding here - could anyone with previous experience help out here?

I'd talk to them again and ask them specifically why they think that a Part 4 Tenancy cannot apply in this case and why they think they can override the provisions of the Residential Tenancies Act 2004. You may want to try contacting Threshold or mention going to the PRTB if they get hostile, just to quieten them down.


From this and other cases I read in this forum I do wonder whether some agencies go about their business deliberately trying to hoodwink their clients' tenants or just don't know the basic laws and regulations concerning the business they trade in. Or both!

BobSmith128

Cheers guys for the informative replies.
It's confirmed what I suspected already.

I was back in touch with the management company today and asked for the contract to be sent out, so that I can review it. They did inform me that the contract was a month to month contract and it could be broken with 30 days notice. The duration would be set at 12 month - basically it's like the one I signed when I moved in but with the 30 days notice built.

If all is true above then signing then to me the contract would be better than Part 4 tenancy. But of course I will read and re-read the contract first!

I'm thinking the reason why they are so insistent for us to sign a contract is that they probably get a finders fee for signing a tenant on a new contract. This is just speculation on my behalf but I have read this on other sites.

Victor

BobSmith128 wrote: »

I'm thinking the reason why they are so insistent for us to sign a contract is that they probably get a finders fee for signing a tenant on a new contract.

Agreed.