The cost of school uniforms

thesimpsons

when son was in 1st yr we had to buy school crrested polo shirt for PE. When they brought out a new design one in 2nd year, I sent son in with a note saying the original one still fitted him and I would buy the new version when it was needed. PE teacher gave a bit of a mumble but that was the end of it. son now in TY year and the original one still fits. Maybe some parents need to stand their ground and just insist they aren't shelling out money for unnecessary items. We also managed to share a CSPE book for over 3 years between son and daughter in different schools which gave us another 32e saving.

implausible

kneeler wrote: »

The school doesn't make the money. It is paid to individuals by way of kickbacks and discounts. Teachers often get a commission for themselves if they persuade the school to introduce a new textbook. That is the way of all procurement.

Are you being serious? Jaysus, Gill&Macmillan and Folens owe me a fortune, I must get on it right away:rolleyes:

That is not the way of procurement in schools. Teachers have to declare an interest and are answerable to the Board of Management and the DES. The conspiracy theories deepen....

For what it's worth - I completely agree that school uniforms should be generic. There is no need for every item of clothing to be crested. Providing a sew-on or iron-on crest is a great idea and one which I will be suggesting next term.

up for anything

My pet rant... the quality of school uniform crested jumpers. My son had two jumpers starting secondary last year - each are in perfect condition after a year of use.

My daughter now heading into 5th year has had two new jumpers every year because the cuffs and 'waistband' fray completely and the principal at her school reads the riot act when he sees them in frayed jumpers. Also this year he has apparently decided to make sure the skirt length rule gets kept. He'll have a fit when he sees her skirts with the previously turned up hem mark on her skirts but I can't afford to buy her new ones especially when these still fit her.

Last year I asked the school outfitters shop assistant why the jumpers frayed and she said it was because teens constantly pulled down the sleeves and curled the cuffs in their fists. She doesn't do that and any how it doesn't explain how the waist band frays. If one school's jumpers can last a year and still look perfect why can't another's. I'm sure they are probably churned out by the same factories.

Morag

thesimpsons wrote: »

not true.

While your experience is not the same as my experience that does not make my experience not true.

Morag

tesco have a uniform deal on, got a new school coat, trousers and a 3pack of long sleeved shirts for 17:50.



We were out in the Maynooth branch this evening and most things were well stocked aside from navy trousers, they had plenty of grey and black.

byhookorbycrook

Sharrow wrote: »

The local parish priest is the head of the board of management for all the Catholic National Schools(92% of all national schools) in the country.

He is the Patron's (bishops's) rep on the board of Management and no matter what the parent's want the Patron and his Rep have the final say.

Incorrect.

byhookorbycrook

kneeler wrote: »

The school doesn't make the money. It is paid to individuals by way of kickbacks and discounts. Teachers often get a commission for themselves if they persuade the school to introduce a new textbook. That is the way of all procurement.

Proof????Or do you just throw out such "facts" as gospel with no evidence????As a matter of interest if the TESCO stuff made ethically or so they use child labour?

Morag

http://www.svp.ie/News/Press-Releases/TESCO-BACK-TO-SCHOOL-INITIATIVE-FOR-SVP.aspx

The Society of St Vincent de Paul (SVP) will receive a boost from a Back to School fundraising initiative with Tesco which will run in 131 Tesco stores nationwide in the first two weeks of August.

Between August 1st and August 14th, Tesco will donate €5 to the SVP for every €20 spent on participating Back to School products.



Tesco are supporting the campaign through a national advertising campaign using TV, radio and press.

Michelle Mahon, Corporate Responsibility Manager at Tesco said, “We are delighted to partner with the St Vincent de Paul to raise money to make the Back to School time easier for struggling families across Ireland. Through working with our customers we hope to raise thousands for euro for the SVP and this will be topped up by our donation of €5 from every €20 spent on selected Back to School uniforms and accessories.”

concisemum

Hi
I seem to have stumbled upon one of my fav rant areas.... the cost of educating our kids. I have 4 kids 2 in National school 2 in Secondary. The two in secondary don't have a uniform, brilliant I buy alot of their clothes from M and M direct. The other 2 have a school burgundy tracksuit, supplied by the school at 30 euro a pop. Scandalous if only they would change the uniform to blue or grey I could pick up a tracksuit at Dunnes. But no the colour is burgundy has always been burgundy and will remain burgundy. I know what you mean about the BOM as well, experienced it all first hand myself.
Don't get me started on the price of books, the school "voluntary" contribution or the various add ons that we incur ohhh and the bus that costs 600 euro a year. Free Education don't make me laugh!!! rant over gonna go lie down and dribble in the corner now

ash23

Ah bugger....I thought I had most of the books I needed done on the cheap. My daughter is going into third class and I bought most of them second hand for €35. Yay says I.
Went online to order the last of her books (workbooks) and the grand total was €80!!!! :eek:

I dread to think what it would have cost if I'd had to buy them all new!

saralou2011

my daughter is starting jr infants this year her pinafore is crested €32, cardigan €20, and tracksuit €45, crazy prices to charge! and it will get even more expensive as she gets bigger sizes! and it also means i can't afford to buy a spare uniform. all her uniform is maroon so you can't buy it cheap in tesco dunnes cos they don't stock that colour,:mad:

thesimpsons

Sharrow wrote: »

The local parish priest is the head of the board of management for all the Catholic National Schools(92% of all national schools) in the country.

He is the Patron's (bishops's) rep on the board of Management and no matter what the parent's want the Patron and his Rep have the final say.

I said it was untrue that the priest is Head of the BOM of all catholic national schools, and that he has the final say. I wasn't commenting on your experiences within the schools.

thesimpsons

saralou2011 wrote: »

my daughter is starting jr infants this year her pinafore is crested €32, cardigan €20, and tracksuit €45, crazy prices to charge! and it will get even more expensive as she gets bigger sizes! and it also means i can't afford to buy a spare uniform. all her uniform is maroon so you can't buy it cheap in tesco dunnes cos they don't stock that colour,:mad:

do you have a Shaws near you or access to one - they stock maroon and I don't think their prices are too high.

saralou2011

thesimpsons wrote: »

do you have a Shaws near you or access to one - they stock maroon and I don't think their prices are too high.

unfortunately all parts of her uniform is crested, and the cardigan has white stripes on the cuffs and bottom. thanks anyhow

byhookorbycrook

kneeler wrote: »

The school doesn't make the money. It is paid to individuals by way of kickbacks and discounts. Teachers often get a commission for themselves if they persuade the school to introduce a new textbook. That is the way of all procurement.

Errrr...and you know this how????I have taught in over 10 schools and have never even heard of this, much less benefitted:rolleyes:

implausible

byhookorbycrook wrote: »

Errrr...and you know this how????I have taught in over 10 schools and have never even heard of this, much less benefitted:rolleyes:

You wouldn't believe the things that people believe about what goes on in schools.

There are some very dodgy comments about Boards of Managements on this thread too. To clarify - the day of the local priest running the show is over. Boards of Management have to be legally constituted in a certain way, with a certain amount of representatives from some of or all of the following groups - parents, teachers, politicians/locals or the relevant church/patron. The chairmanship of the BOM should rotate between these groups and decisions are taken democratically.

If parents want a change in uniform, they need to mobilise their rep on the BOM, lobby the teachers and the politicians. It's also essential to have researched figures and details about an alternative to the uniform, just saying 'it's too dear' is not going to be taken seriously. The Parents' Association is there for a reason and can have great leverage if all of the parents engage with it. Too often, many people complain about the school, swap conspiracy theories, don't attend PA meetings and it's the same old people who end up on the BOM with nothing changing.

If you want a change (and the same goes for book schemes), get started on it now (bear in mind that the local shop could order uniforms after Christmas), so you won't end up with the same bill this time next year.

planetX

saralou2011 wrote: »

my daughter is starting jr infants this year her pinafore is crested €32, cardigan €20, and tracksuit €45, crazy prices to charge! and it will get even more expensive as she gets bigger sizes! and it also means i can't afford to buy a spare uniform. all her uniform is maroon so you can't buy it cheap in tesco dunnes cos they don't stock that colour,:mad:

same here - the curse of maroon. 40E for a shoddy tracksuit that lasts a month. And if you can find the odd top in tesco you can be sure it will be a totally different shade of maroon, hideous. I pass all the navy in Dunnes and Penneys, and weep:(

StillWaters

The companies that embroider sports jerseys etc., will embroider crests on generic clothes. I buy the clothes in M&S, the quality is excellent, and get the crests embroidered on.

OS119

byhookorbycrook wrote: »

Errrr...and you know this how????I have taught in over 10 schools and have never even heard of this, much less benefitted:rolleyes:

can you explain why schools take the attitides alluded to by other posters if there are not kickbacks involved?

teachers are, by and large, intelligent, contientious professionals - i can see very little reason why they would give even a mouse-sized poo about the provenance of schools uniforms: trousers right colour? skirt right length? appropriate tie? all reasonable questions - whether they are from Tescos or from Ripoff and Sons however is unlikely to trouble the busy mind of a teacher with 30 sets of books to mark.

your views?

zanador

In our school two teachers got together and decided to organise buying all school books, and the bulk buy discount is passed on to parents.

They have got no money, kick-back, privilege from this, they did it because, wait for it, they are good, kind people who want to help in any way they can

thesimpsons

I don't know anything about kick backs, I've never heard or come across this in any of my involvments in either BOMs or on PA but I have had teachers having heavy involvement in the style/colour of the uniforms even so far as when us parents wanted the cuffed leg of the tracksuits changed to a straight leg (cos the cuffed leg is not in the least bit forgiving to the larger children) the teachers had to approve the change first, and some of them were very anti any change. They agreed in the end but actually by then, alot of parents had just started to buy the uncuffed version anyway.

implausible

OS119 wrote: »

can you explain why schools take the attitides alluded to by other posters if there are not kickbacks involved?

teachers are, by and large, intelligent, contientious professionals - i can see very little reason why they would give even a mouse-sized poo about the provenance of schools uniforms: trousers right colour? skirt right length? appropriate tie? all reasonable questions - whether they are from Tescos or from Ripoff and Sons however is unlikely to trouble the busy mind of a teacher with 30 sets of books to mark.

How can you call teachers "intelligent, conscientious professionals" and in the same post accuse them of getting kickbacks, based on nothing except your lack of understanding about how schools operate?

Such sickening cynicism is a nice reminder of the general public's opinion of my profession. I wonder why I bother.

embee

Aah thank God I'm not the only person incensed by this!

My daughter goes to a school with a very specific uniform. The pinafore has a very particular check tartan pattern in navy and green with is impossible to get in the likes of Tescos, Dunnes, Penneys etc. The pinafore I just bought, age 6-7, cost 38 euros on its own. A plain navy/green pinny in Tescos etc costs between 10 and 15 euros. Then, there are the jumpers. Crested, of course. 25 euro. She never wears it because the classrooms are always boiling hot and she comes out of school, winter and summer, with the school jumper in the schoolbag. But of course, if she doesn't come to school in her full uniform a helpful little note is sent home with the child.... absolutely nuts. The tie, which is essentially a piece of fabric on an elastic string, costs 5 euro alone. For an elasticated tie! Of course, the colours in it are such that a generic one cannot be bought that looks the same.

The crested school tracksuit is a particular bugbear of mine. They cost 35 euro for the top and bottoms. The bottoms are grand, but the zippers on the tops break almost immediately. I have spoken to endless other Mams who say the same thing about their girls tracksuit tops. Why can't they just do PE in navy bottoms and a white polo shirt?

Last year, I had to buy the entire ensemble as Rhiannon was starting Junior Infants. This year, all I've had to buy is a new pinafore (the other one just got too small, she shot up about 6 inches in the school year). Her jumper is virtually pristine. The tracksuit could do with replacing but I just can't afford it. The new pinny I've bought has to do her for senior infants and 1st class... but... she is one of the taller girls in her class and if she keeps growing the way she is I'll probably have to buy her a new one in first class.

So, it breaks down like this...

Uniform - 103 euro
Shirts, vests, socks, tights etc - 35 euro
Shoes - 45 euro
Runners - 25 euro
Decent coat - 20-25 euro
Books - 60 euro
School supplies (bag, pencil case,stationery, lunch things etc) - 30 euro
School charge for "photocopying etc" - 40 euro.

363 euro before she even goes to school. As a single parent, this is just impossible and I have been dreading the back to school situation since April or so. Haven't recieved my back to school clothing and footwear allowance yet and won't receive it until she is well back at school.

If I had the time I'd join the parents council merely to complain about this issue. The pinny I had bought for Rhiannon last August was going to be thrown away. It was in perfectly good condition, but she is an only child and I didn't know any other little girls starting school this September. I put a message on Facebook and thankfully managed to find a home for it and avoided throwing it in the bin.... such a waste of money.

The blame has to lie somewhere between the relationships the schools have with the uniform manufacturers..... but a lot of parents like me are just at the end of their rope with this unreasonable dress codes being enforced in our schools.

byhookorbycrook

Shoes, runners and a coat have to be bought anyhow, uniform or not. Fair play to you for passing on the pinny. Some schools organise a uniform sale where parents can sell on good second hand items. Might be worth suggesting to the school, something the PA might take on?

embee

byhookorbycrook wrote: »

Shoes, runners and a coat have to be bought anyhow, uniform or not. Fair play to you for passing on the pinny. Some schools organise a uniform sale where parents can sell on good second hand items. Might be worth suggesting to the school, something the PA might take on?

Even taking out the footwear and coat, its crazy money. I have estimated that I could slash my spend by at least half if we had the optionsvto buy the generic uniform pieces. I know school is expensive regardless but this ridiculous uniform policy is putting huge pressure on parents.

I really don't have the time to be getting involved in uniform swap shops etc... am going into 3rd year in college and its gonna be tough enough to get time to help her with homework, let alone joining the PA. I have plans for next summer, when I am holidays, to try and rent out a retail space in my town for one week, ask people to donate uniforms in good condition that they no longer have a need for. There are about a dozen primary schools in the Mid-Louth area that could benefit hugely from a system like this. We sell each garment for 5 euros- this cost is merely to cover the price of renting out the space. From what I have seen the school are reluctant to talk to parents about the uniform issue.

If next summer is clear for me and I don't have repeat exams, or placements, then I'm going to seriously look into doing a week long uniform swap shop.

byhookorbycrook

I agree re generic stuff,crests, if needed should be available to sew on.

jonny d

StillWaters wrote: »

The companies that embroider sports jerseys etc., will embroider crests on generic clothes. I buy the clothes in M&S, the quality is excellent, and get the crests embroidered on.

does anyone have any info on companies that will make school crests?

thesimpsons

wondering if a crest is copyrighted or something like that - would anyone be allowed to just copy it. I don't agree with crested uniforms at all, don't see the need for them, just wondering about the legalities of someone other than the official shop supplying them?

syklops

thesimpsons wrote: »

wondering if a crest is copyrighted or something like that - would anyone be allowed to just copy it. I don't agree with crested uniforms at all, don't see the need for them, just wondering about the legalities of someone other than the official shop supplying them?

I dont think thats how copyright works.

There is nothing wrong with you re-creating the school crest, and applying it to a sweater of a child who is attending the same school.

Copying or recreating a crest and using it for a different school would be different though. I could be wrong, but I doubt enough money is changing hands(or revenue lost) for anyone to pull you up on it.

OS119

deemark wrote: »

...I wonder why I bother.

it was a pretty simple question - teachers, and therefore headteachers, being overly fussed about the provenance of a pair of trousers is not logical, so why should they care?

as with any such question, if there is not a good - logical - answer, there must be a bad answer.

i do not believe that teachers, as individuals, get a kickback, but i do believe that the school as a corporate body gets a kickback, or worse, that the policy deciders get a kickback.

if you can make a logical argument as to why teachers and headteachers should wish to continue the requirement for uniforms to come from specific suppliers - whether you agree with it or not - then i will accept that brown envelopes aren't the answer, if not, then the only options are pretty limited, and not attractive.