lied on cv - interview pending - what to do

LegacyUser

hi, huge problem here.
It is a long one but i will try and be brief and to the point.

I did a diploma which allowed me to enter into the 3rd yr of a degree. However I never got to finish the degree as I had a bit of a nervous breakdown while studying for my final year exams. This was such a shame as I was a 1.1 student. I did defer them but I broke down again while trying to study for them. So I never went back.

I have always included the name of the course on my cv - and with a result 2.1. This is partly because I did almost finish it but also because I did a placement abroad while doing the course which I wanted to include on my cv.

I worked in the related industry for 6 years and was never once asked for a copy of my degree cert.

I have since changed careers. I am now working the my new career - even though it is at the bottom of the field.
However I had applied for a similar job in a different company and I have been asked for a copy of my leaving cert and my degree.

The panic I am feeling is so overwhelming.
I am so surprised that I am being asked for it, as this job has nothing to do with the same degree. I guess they just need it for their files.

Thing is, I would really like to work for this company - but how do I handle this situation?

Do I - a - just scrap the job application with this new company or
- b - tell them that I did not actually sit the finals?

What do you think, anyone who works in hr or other?

If I tell them B, will they see it as a down right lie, or will they see my reason for including the course on my cv at all? Or will they just see me as a bad person?

I cannot believe this is coming back to bite me 9 years later.

I know what I did looks silly but if I did not include the course, then I would have a gap of 2 years on my cv - and without the great work placement abroad. I did not want to put "did not sit finals" on my cv in case it would immediately put employers off - in any field.

Your advice is mush appreciated.

daddydick

Personally I wouldnt take up the position. If you admit to lying on your CV they could fire you or else at the very least you would be starting on a really, really bad footing.

I would take it as a lesson learned and re-apply for another job with the Diploma or whatever on your CV. It's totally unfair to put that you have a degree on your CV if you didn't finish the course, unfair on both the employer and the other job candidates.

LegacyUser

i agree with you but i am still wondering if there is a way around it.

Ok at this stage i have been asked to send the documents and contact them with regards to arranging an interview.

So on my cv I have listed the course under education which is not a lie. Though I know I did not finish the degree.

Is there any room for just telling them at this stage that I did not actually finish the degree - and let them decide as to whether they think it is a down and out lie? I mean what could I loose by that? Or should I just scrap this application now and reapply next year but without the degree course on my cv in the hope that they will not remember it?

Maple

So you have the diploma but not the degree??

Just tell them this outright. If you're this far along the process they obviously rate you as a candidate.

Employers are far more understanding of scenarios like this than you might think.

Rev Hellfire

Personally I'd keep mum and go ahead with your interview.

LegacyUser

Maple wrote: »

So you have the diploma but not the degree??

Just tell them this outright. If you're this far along the process they obviously rate you as a candidate.

Employers are far more understanding of scenarios like this than you might think.

hi, i actually have 3 certs and a diploma - i just didn't feckin get to finish the degree.
Thing is I did not include the degree course to pretend I have a degree - i just did not want to leave a 2 year gap or leave out my work placement abroad.

Ok, I could scrap this application and reapply next year without the degree course but what if they remember me then? And query the differences in the cv's?

My gut is to just tell me as it is. I mean, it is not like they would tell my current employer?
God I am freaking out - paranoia setting in.

I would really like to work for this company and where I live is quite small so there are not many other opportunities.

If they do not like it then they will not interview me for the job. Then I can never apply again.

Otherwise, I am perfect for this job. It is a pity they are asking for the degree doc - i would think that this is just a HR formality - as my degree course and this job are 2 totally different industry's.

What do ye think?

Really appreciate the feedback here too. Thanks.

Maple

Honestly I would advise you to tell them the truth, you have the certs to prove your education, you're not fabricating your education in it's entirety.

And no, they will not rat you out to your current employer either.

Overheal

cvlies wrote: »

So on my cv I have listed the course under education which is not a lie. Though I know I did not finish the degree.

Institute of Technology Carlow, Co. Carlow, Ireland

• One and One Half Years of Undergraduate Study in Computer Games Development
• Computer Graphics, Applied Mathematics, Programming, Computer Games, Computer Architecture, Databases, Audio, Human Computer Interaction.
• 45 Credit hours. GPA 2.85
• Credentials Certified by World Education Services, Inc.

Notice that I state that I attended the course, but make no claim of possessing a Bachelors Degree. That would be a lie.

LegacyUser

Rev Hellfire wrote: »

Personally I'd keep mum and go ahead with your interview.

what do you mean "keep mum"?

Gordon

cvlies wrote: »

what do you mean "keep mum"?

That means 'keep schtum' or 'keep quiet' (from - mums the word, no idea how the phrase came about though!).

LegacyUser

Overheal wrote: »

Institute of Technology Carlow, Co. Carlow, Ireland

• One and One Half Years of Undergraduate Study in Computer Games Development
• Computer Graphics, Applied Mathematics, Programming, Computer Games, Computer Architecture, Databases, Audio, Human Computer Interaction.
• Credentials Certified by World Education Services, Inc.

Notice that I state that I attended the course, but make no claim of possessing a Bachelors Degree. That would be a lie.

ok, i am unclear about the following - [*]45 Credit hours. GPA 2.85?

Did you get something from the college to say this or?

in any case, would i amend my cv and resend it - say it was an oversight?

As on my cv I have the name of the degree and a result - not I do not say that it was my final year result (its actually what I got in the previous year)?

Or should i just leave the cv as it and explain?

LegacyUser

Gordon wrote: »

That means 'keep schtum' or 'keep quiet' (from - mums the word, no idea how the phrase came about though!).

no i can't say nothing - they have asked for a copy of my degree doc with i do not have as i did not sit the finals..

fghijkl

OP i really don't think you have any choice but to tell them the truth to be honest. If they want to see a copy of your degree then apart from forging one (do not do this!) there's really no way to get away with the lie.

You say you were a 1.1 student apart from final exams so could you not get a transcript of results from your college for whatever modules or exams you passed?

I'd send them these results and just explain that you were a 1.1 student but that you never actually got to sit your final exams for personal reasons or whatever.

I definitely wouldn't resend the cv and say it was an oversight it will make you look awful as it will be obvious you're trying to cover up one lie with another, and it's just going to make the whole thing worse.

Overheal

cvlies wrote: »

ok, i am unclear about the following -
[*]45 Credit hours. GPA 2.85?

Did you get something from the college to say this or?

Thats a US translation based on a transcript from ITC.

LegacyUser

hi,

i never thought of asking the college for a list of my results. I'm not sure it matters - i just need to clear up that fact that they think i sat the finals which I did not - though I completed the course.
In 3rd year, I averaged as a 1.1. In 4th year, we had lots of end of module exams which I think i got about a 1.1 in all. However the course was not semisterised - the overall result of the degree was based on a work project - which I did complete and got a 1.1 in, and the finals - which I did not sit.

all would be ok had I not put a stupid result on the cv - it has been there years - never thought of if as i am not in a new profession.

I do not know what to do.

Just leave it - turn down the invitation to interview and reapply next year with an amended cv or come clean - but to be honest - the fact that I have that result on my cv looks like I am lying.

What to do..?

LegacyUser

Overheal wrote: »

Thats a US translation based on a transcript from ITC.

oh ok thanks.

I have been reading lots about incomplete degree's on cv's on line and from what I can see, there is nothing wrong with including such - however it is how it is worded, just like you said.
It is such a pity I did not cop this before now.
I remember also that the reason I included it was because I had asked the career guidance person in the university and she said I should include it - god dam why did i include a result. I guess cos I had gotten away with it for so long.

Would it be totally taboo to just amend my cv and resend or explain it as it is (with the result of a 2.1 on it?) or just decline this invite to interview and resubmit next year with appropriate cv?

Maple

Go for the interview and tell them there and then.

LegacyUser

Maple wrote: »

Go for the interview and tell them there and then.

ok the last email i got from them was

"can you please contact me with regards to an interview and also we need a copy of your leaving certificate and degree as soon as possible"

so really i have to clear up the degree issue before an interview can even be on the cards.

So should i try and clear up the issue and then see whether or not they want me for an interview?

I need to do something tomorrow me thinks.

dellas1979

Hang on - was it a ladder system i.e. you did a cert/diploma, and then had the option to do the degree?

Or, was it 4 years straight through?

If it is the former, Diplomas, or Level 7s, are also known nowadays as Ordinary Degrees, as opposed to Level 8 Honour Degrees.

Effectively, then you are not lying about having a "degree". You just didnt write on the CV that was an ordinary degree.

Otherwise, I would not lie, and I would come clean or at least explain myself.

LegacyUser

dellas1979 wrote: »

Hang on - was it a ladder system i.e. you did a cert/diploma, and then had the option to do the degree?

Or, was it 4 years straight through?

If it is the former, Diplomas, or Level 7s, are also known nowadays as Ordinary Degrees, as opposed to Level 8 Honour Degrees.

Effectively, then you are not lying about having a "degree". You just didnt write on the CV that was an ordinary degree.

Otherwise, I would not lie, and I would come clean or at least explain myself.

i got a 3 year diploma from one institution but then went into the 3d year of a degree course in another college

so what is on my cv looks like a lie - and i suppose it is - but it was not meant to be for the sake of saying i had a degree - it was just so not to leave a gap or leave out my work placement.

I think end the application process here and then reapply next year with an amended cv

they usually hire once a year

lesson learnt!!!!!

BnB

Ok - Just to give a slightly different viewpoint.

Firstly - Under no circumstances tell the truth. If you have to explain why you didn't finish your degree, and you explain it as you did here the employer will run a mile. I am sorry, it's not nice, but it's true.

I would say, either make up a cock and bull story about why you didn't finish it...... or.... and I'm just putting it out there.... fake it. Get a copy of someone who graduated from the same course - scan it and photoshop it - It's just going to go to some admin person in HR who is going to tick a box and stick it in a file.

LegacyUser

OP I'm sorry but you have to tell them.

You're being unfair to them and really unfair to other, potentially better candidates. You say you freaked out coming up to the finals.... That means you're not a 1.1 student - a 1.1 student sits their exams and gets a 1.1.

I'm not having a go at you personally OP, but this type of behaviour really annoys me. I (like most other people who were in college with me) worked really really hard for my degree and I stuck it out through the stress of the exams. Exams ARE stressful - for everyone. Saying you got a degree when you didn't is a cheat. It's a barefaced lie and you don't deserve to be considered as an honours degree graduate as you are not - other people stuck it out, sat the exams and put in the work. There's nothing more frustrating than spending 4 years working hard in college, graduating into this economic climate thinking you're in direct competition with however many thousand unemployed graduates there are, then finding out that there are people who have experience (but not the qualification) who are LYING and claiming they have the qualification when they don't. If you consider yourself a good person - do not lie. As I said, I'm really not intending to have a go at you personally - just the behaviour. See, I just want you to see this from my perspective (recent graduate) so that you can realise that it's not a trivial matter - your lies have consequences.

It doesn't matter how you dress it up, but you have to tell them. Most people are not unreasonable but if I heard that a person had accidentally put something on a CV (say, through formatting error the result from a pervious cert got copied over by mistake and you didn't notice it), explained that they had what is now considered an ordinary degree and almost completed the honours degree, I may still consider them if they'd proven themselves in a similar role. It shows that you're upfront and trustworthy and tried to correct your mistake as soon as it was noted. But if you got the job and I found out afterwards? You couldn't be fired quickly enough for my liking.

Overheal

cvlies wrote: »

ok the last email i got from them was

"can you please contact me with regards to an interview and also we need a copy of your leaving certificate and degree as soon as possible"

so really i have to clear up the degree issue before an interview can even be on the cards.

So should i try and clear up the issue and then see whether or not they want me for an interview?

I need to do something tomorrow me thinks.

It might land in some weirdness but you could email back the truth: that they're the first employer to ask for a copy of your degree since whatever year you left college, and as such you've now made notice of a miscommunication on your CV. Fire off the amended CV explaining that you attended the course for 4 years but are still an Undergraduate. Which is a nice way of saying you didn't complete it, but will be a lot less negative when it rolls around their tongue when they read your clarification. It's also a little more truthful: "Didn't complete" is like saying you failed, and you aren't going to ever try and get the degree. I know I did attend Irish 3rd level but I don't know it all - I'm still pretty sure you can re-take the sections you require to get your degree without having to re-do all 4 years. Labeling yourself as still an undergraduate or having been an undergraduate acknowledges that you still took something meaningful away from your time there, and can go back for the rest; just as I can... if I was so inclined. Games Development was a really terrible choice though. But, at least I can say I took away some programming and math knowledge among other things.

Firstly - Under no circumstances tell the truth. If you have to explain why you didn't finish your degree, and you explain it as you did here the employer will run a mile. I am sorry, it's not nice, but it's true.

I would say, either make up a cock and bull story about why you didn't finish it...... or.... and I'm just putting it out there.... fake it. Get a copy of someone who graduated from the same course - scan it and photoshop it - It's just going to go to some admin person in HR who is going to tick a box and stick it in a file.

At no point in your post did you even attempt to sound ethical. Employers love that, too.

Jagera

OP you had enough stress and anxiety trying to complete the degree. Now you are wondering whether to move into a new position based on lies. Don't you think that will give you stress for the term of your employment there?

My opinion is to come clean. Whatever happens with this current job prospect (they with either drop you as a candidate, or make some allowance) then you will be moving forward with a clear conscience.

Your health is a major factor in this decision.

LegacyUser

thanks for your replies.

Ok first of all - I am not going to forge any degree transcript.

Here are my choices as I now see it:

1. email to say that I had made a mistake on my cv - the result had been there years and resend an amended cv just stating that I attended the course. Mind you if this fails I have ruined any chance of ever being employed there.
2. Decline invitation to email and say that now is not a good time for me to change jobs (with the intention of reapplying next year with appropriate cv and hopefully they will not notice).

What do you think?
And as an employer, how would you react to either?

By the way, really, thanks for all the replies. This has made me realise that it is not unusual for one, not to finish a course. And also that there are ways to make it blend in with a cv - major lesson learnt - i will just take out that silly result.
Also I am going to contact the college to see if they can give me something official for the grades I got while doing the course.

LegacyUser

bw wrote: »

OP you had enough stress and anxiety trying to complete the degree. Now you are wondering whether to move into a new position based on lies. Don't you think that will give you stress for the term of your employment there?

My opinion is to come clean. Whatever happens with this current job prospect (they with either drop you as a candidate, or make some allowance) then you will be moving forward with a clear conscience.

Your health is a major factor in this decision.

no it was not a lie - i think i use to have third yr beside the result and then i must have somehow removed over the years - as someone said, i was never asked for a transcript.
but i can see how it looks like a lie for sure - and i think if i was an employer i would think the same. so I will amend now or amend next year and resend. If I reapply next year I can just say that I was amending my cv anyhow, which I will be doing as I am doing more training; thats if they do cop any discrepencies among the 2 cv's (which i doubt they will as they will get so many)

Maple

BnB wrote: »

Ok - Just to give a slightly different viewpoint.

Firstly - Under no circumstances tell the truth. If you have to explain why you didn't finish your degree, and you explain it as you did here the employer will run a mile. I am sorry, it's not nice, but it's true.

I would say, either make up a cock and bull story about why you didn't finish it...... or

OP, you don't have to tell them the truth. Just say something along the lines of having tried the course, not liked it, attempting to repeat but finding that it still was not the best fit for you so you decided to try X, Y and Z instead.

I have been in your situation before and used the exact same story as above, I've gotten every job I've ever interviewed for too. If the course is not relevant to the position you are interviewing for, then it's kinda irrelevant. And you also have 6 years experience of working in the field, employers will look at this too.

BnB wrote: »

.... and I'm just putting it out there.... fake it. Get a copy of someone who graduated from the same course - scan it and photoshop it - It's just going to go to some admin person in HR who is going to tick a box and stick it in a file.

Please do not do it, the worry alone would not be worth it.

Maple

OP, I don't mean to be an arsehole here but I think you're kinda overthinking this.

You have a strong CV, good experience, a number of educational qualifications behind you.

What I would do is the below;
A. go back to them and arrange a time for the interview
B. tell them that you're getting a copy of results and you'll forward them as soon as possible.
C. Get onto your college and ask for a transcript of your results.
D. Go into the interview with all necessary docs and explain yourself then. Tell them that you were advised to leave it on your CV as such because of the foreign work placement. If you have the rest of your educational certs in front of you along with your transcript well then they have no reason to doubt you.

Jagera

cvlies wrote: »

no it was not a lie

Sorry. But thread title = "lied on cv", your username="cvlies"
Either way, do whatever you feel is the right thing to do. Clear conscience & all that.

wild_cat

Overheal wrote: »

Institute of Technology Carlow, Co. Carlow, Ireland

• One and One Half Years of Undergraduate Study in Computer Games Development
• Computer Graphics, Applied Mathematics, Programming, Computer Games, Computer Architecture, Databases, Audio, Human Computer Interaction.
• 45 Credit hours. GPA 2.85
• Credentials Certified by World Education Services, Inc.

Notice that I state that I attended the course, but make no claim of possessing a Bachelors Degree. That would be a lie.

Cheers for putting that up. I was wondering how to word a similar situation I'm in myself. Didn't want to waste what I actually can do.

Miss Fluff

be honest wrote: »

OP I'm sorry but you have to tell them.

+1. I can't agree more.

I worked at quite a senior level in the recruitment sector and I can tell you in no uncertain terms that you lied on your CV. It's as simple as that. I'm sorry to hear you had a breakdown and never got to sit your final exams but in your CV you have in fact stipulated that you have a degree. You don't have a degree. So you have actually lied.

Don't try and dress this up. You either tell this potential employer the truth and apologise for your CV being misleading (I certainly wouldn't call you for interview based on your CV being deceptive) or you bow out now with a made-up excuse, learn an unfortunate and harsh lesson and ensure that you state clearly on your CV that you did not finish your final exams so this won't happen again

It really is that simple.