Ideal suckler cow

red bull

At athenry calf mart today week old montbeliarde x heifer calves went up to 290 for suckler breeding, farmer said they are the best for easy calving with loads of milk ?

Kovu

If this sort of thread has been up before and discussed numerous times, would it not be in everyones interest to ask about setting up a place where we can post pictures, weight & prices, along with breeding background? That way, we'd all be happier seeing the actual produce (We do all love looking at a good animal)
Even with dam pictures next to stock if possible, because what your neighbour has off KFC etc, can be a lot different to stock in your own field. Would people actually do this? Looking at other peoples stock and seeing how they breed them, is a far better learning experience (and cheaper) than trying and failing.

flatout11

bogman_bass wrote: »

Lads I think you are forgetting a very important fact here and thats that Eurostar figures were never ment to be the be all and end all.
They are, however a useful INDICATOR of what a bull might produce.

As for calving, while it wont tell you the likelyhood of a difficult calving on a perticular cow, you can generally use it to distinguish an easy calving bull from one thats throwing monster providing that there is a resonable number of calvings in the survey

always take the reliability into account when reading the figures

that sum s it up best ... i have no doubt that some of the data is crap.... thats human nature and the system is dependent on it.... (you should check out the rants across the water on dishonest pedigree breeders re dob etc...) but it provides the only source of information for certain traits
but i always find it funny when farmers go on about using SBV values to select replacements..... the comnined index is meaningless - horses for courses

flatout11

Karen112 wrote: »

Looking at other peoples stock and seeing how they breed them, is a far better learning experience (and cheaper) than trying and failing.

.... nice idea but at the end of the day its the average (or system) that we get that counts not the 2 to 3 top calves we all have..... you would end up with a selection of export calves and show cows.. me thinks!!!!

Tora Bora

Karen112 wrote: »

If this sort of thread has been up before and discussed numerous times, would it not be in everyones interest to ask about setting up a place where we can post pictures, weight & prices, along with breeding background? That way, we'd all be happier seeing the actual produce (We do all love looking at a good animal)
Even with dam pictures next to stock if possible, because what your neighbour has off KFC etc, can be a lot different to stock in your own field. Would people actually do this? Looking at other peoples stock and seeing how they breed them, is a far better learning experience (and cheaper) than trying and failing.

With the kind of stock some lads have around here have, you would need a 96 inch plasma computer screen, to see their arses properly.:cool:
In my case you could get the whole herd on a smart phone screen:o

flatout11

Tora Bora wrote: »

With the kind of stock some lads have around here have, you would need a 96 inch plasma computer screen, to see their arses properly.:cool:
In my case you could get the whole herd on a smart phone screen:o

the 96 inch screen would only allow you to see the calf... better off just renting a cinema so we could see the cow as well !!!!!!!!!!!

leg wax

flatout11 wrote: »

.... nice idea but at the end of the day its the average (or system) that we get that counts not the 2 to 3 top calves we all have..... you would end up with a selection of export calves and show cows.. me thinks!!!!

well i think its a good idea and i think i started it in the pic thread:rolleyes:,i have no problem showing poor stock and crosses that dont work and cows that dont work etc etc ,i have no problem in putting up every cow heifer as they calf with info ,the good the bad the pure ugly, we all have them.

Kovu

flatout11 wrote: »

the 96 inch screen would only allow you to see the calf... better off just renting a cinema so we could see the cow as well !!!!!!!!!!!

Hahaha, bigger the better eh. We'd have to try the 3D version as well.

flatout11 wrote: »

.... nice idea but at the end of the day its the average (or system) that we get that counts not the 2 to 3 top calves we all have..... you would end up with a selection of export calves and show cows.. me thinks!!!!

Not everyone breeds blues and lims. I would put up all my stock if someone asked, including a dwarf that can still run under it's mum at 4 months old (oh the shame of the little bugger being in the field) It's only something to put out there to think about doing.

flatout11

Karen112 wrote: »

Hahaha, bigger the better eh. We'd have to try the 3D version as well.



Not everyone breeds blues and lims. I would put up all my stock if someone asked, including a dwarf that can still run under it's mum at 4 months old (oh the shame of the little bugger being in the field) It's only something to put out there to think about doing.

3D ... i will bring the popcorn .... its probably not a bad idea then again twenty minutes on done deal will see a lot!!!

my piont was it would be nice to hear about a a suckler system delivering the goods on a consistent basis - possible should of asked about the ideal replacement policy for a suckler herd i still think this is one area where we fall down

Kovu

flatout11 wrote: »

3D ... i will bring the popcorn .... its probably not a bad idea then again twenty minutes on done deal will see a lot!!!

my piont was it would be nice to hear about a a suckler system delivering the goods on a consistent basis - possible should of asked about the ideal replacement policy for a suckler herd i still think this is one area where we fall down

That's true. Hard to get a silk purse out of a sow's ear.
Breeding your own replacements has a lot to do with it though. Hard to know what the dam was like when you're buying in a mart. For all the buyer knows, it could be just a good animal thrown from an average cow.

Muckit

I think we'd all agree on one thing...... the answers don't come easy

I think we'd all need a masters in genetics to develop a consistently top performing suckler herd.

Seriously, the more I think about it, modern farming is gone very scientific. It's also very diverse. Genetics, grassland management, meal feeding regimes etc etc

pakalasa

As someone said to me when I started suckling - "Breeding cattle is like a box of chocolates, you never know what you're going to get".
It keeps it interesting though, I suppose!

ltec

Most people say the cow needs plenty of milk but our cow which produces the best calves every year is a charlois cow which doesnt look too good and has little milk, calves every year herself and no trouble where as we have better cows with loads of milk and calves arent as good and they give more trouble with their elders because of loads of milk.

1chippy

Karen112 wrote: »

Not everyone breeds blues and lims. I would put up all my stock if someone asked, including a dwarf that can still run under it's mum at 4 months old (oh the shame of the little bugger being in the field) It's only something to put out there to think about doing.

Karen did you sell that calf last week. if You didnt someone else had one thats more suitable for a collar and leash rather than a pen. Made 320 or there abouts

Kovu

1chippy wrote: »

Karen112 wrote: »

Not everyone breeds blues and lims. I would put up all my stock if someone asked, including a dwarf that can still run under it's mum at 4 months old (oh the shame of the little bugger being in the field) It's only something to put out there to think about doing.

Karen did you sell that calf last week. if You didnt someone else had one thats more suitable for a collar and leash rather than a pen. Made 320 or there abouts

I did, made 3.70 p/k. I would have kept her for showing myself if I had the time but as I'm working away from home for the forseeable future I couldn't.
Let someone else have a bit of fun with her, sure my name isn't going to come off the card;)

farmboy1130

whats the best suckler cow for your farm depends on what breed of calves you are looking to produce. i have had lots of different breeds of cow on my farm over the years, i think that the angus is best, i have mixed traditional angus bloodlines with canadian angus ai bloodlines over the years to create 650 kg angus cows with wide arses- they would calve an elephant. only problem is that they do a lot of pouching when the weather gets wet.The traditional angus cow are quite small, so you are limited to putting them in calf with an angus, easy calving herefords, shorthorns,or limousins.but the advantage is the smaller cow will eat less, so you can keep more of them. if you have wet, heavy land my advice is have a smaller angus or shorthorn, cow, they will have plenty of milk, unlike a lot of the limousins out there.

topgeas

i got £805 for 3 nine month simmental heifers on monday. weighted 366 kilo each. id leave notin else inside the gate.

1chippy

topgeas wrote: »

i got £805 for 3 nine month simmental heifers on monday. weighted 366 kilo each. id leave notin else inside the gate.

Any left?
just paid 920 for an eight month old 320kg. sim outa a lim mother. went crazy for them in the mart

topgeas

keepin rest til spring.

leg wax

1chippy wrote: »

Any left?
just paid 920 for an eight month old 320kg. sim outa a lim mother. went crazy for them in the mart

why did you pay that amount for them.a couple of lads have been on my place over the past years looking at my stock and told me i was crazy for paying 1700 for a incalf heifer.now lads are paying the same for rubbish,i will not pay the prices that are being paid out there as has been said on here this is a cattle bubble.hope she goes well for you you will need it and hope her stock make as much in the latter years.sorry its the pinot grigio talking on a saturday night.

1chippy

leg wax,, shes not rubbish, shes what i wanted. i have spent the last few months chasing a consistant batch of replacement heifers, of a cross which works best for me. Personally i reckon we have a couple of years of this bubble. Presuming out of ten heifers i get two wrong ones. they get the hook return the majority of their money. i Have eight left. Reminding you its a set type i want that arent readily available regularly. Out of these eight heifers i'll be hoping to get at least eight calves so thats 64 calves, spread the little extra i paid for her over these and i can be pretty sure i wont be disappointed.

leg wax

1chippy wrote: »

leg wax,, shes not rubbish, shes what i wanted. i have spent the last few months chasing a consistant batch of replacement heifers, of a cross which works best for me. Personally i reckon we have a couple of years of this bubble. Presuming out of ten heifers i get two wrong ones. they get the hook return the majority of their money. i Have eight left. Reminding you its a set type i want that arent readily available regularly. Out of these eight heifers i'll be hoping to get at least eight calves so thats 64 calves, spread the little extra i paid for her over these and i can be pretty sure i wont be disappointed.

sorry i never said she was rubbish,sims are nice cattle had them when i was in milk,it seems a lot of money for a weanling,what will you put on her.

ltec

1chippy wrote: »

leg wax,, shes not rubbish, shes what i wanted. i have spent the last few months chasing a consistant batch of replacement heifers, of a cross which works best for me. Personally i reckon we have a couple of years of this bubble. Presuming out of ten heifers i get two wrong ones. they get the hook return the majority of their money. i Have eight left. Reminding you its a set type i want that arent readily available regularly. Out of these eight heifers i'll be hoping to get at least eight calves so thats 64 calves, spread the little extra i paid for her over these and i can be pretty sure i wont be disappointed.

I agree, its better to pay that bit extra for what you want. 7 or 8 calves down the line that extra bit will be well worth it.

1chippy

Limo first year anyway. will be pushed to get the weight on her at the moment. she is a big empty calf although so hope to turn her round fairly sharp without blowing her up. The rest are now well over the 440 kg so should be ok come feb. trying easy calving sim on a few of the others. Was goin to go bb but not worth the risk, keep hearing too much negative feed on the parts. will put bb on older cows a couple of blonds and sweep with the limo bull.

johnpawl

1chippy wrote: »

Limo first year anyway. will be pushed to get the weight on her at the moment. she is a big empty calf although so hope to turn her round fairly sharp without blowing her up. The rest are now well over the 440 kg so should be ok come feb. trying easy calving sim on a few of the others. Was goin to go bb but not worth the risk, keep hearing too much negative feed on the parts. will put bb on older cows a couple of blonds and sweep with the limo bull.

What negativity are you hearing on the parts? They get a good review on pg 4 of the journal this wk, farmer in Birr. No experience myself.

blue5000

On a pissing wet day like today an 800 kg blonde cow is going down about 4 inches every step, 550 kg angus is keeping above ground, I know which cows I'd prefer:o

leg wax

blue5000 wrote: »

On a pissing wet day like today an 800 kg blonde cow is going down about 4 inches every step, 550 kg angus is keeping above ground, I know which cows I'd prefer:o

yea my 800 kg blonde cow in a dry shed:D.

vanderbadger

leg wax wrote: »

yea my 800 kg blonde cow in a dry shed:D.

what became of the nice blue calf off blonde cow you had at ploughing wax?

leg wax

vanderbadger wrote: »

what became of the nice blue calf off blonde cow you had at ploughing wax?

shes in the shed with her mother and all the young calves.are you interested in her:rolleyes:.

moy83

leg wax wrote: »

shes in the shed with her mother and all the young calves.are you interested in her:rolleyes:.

Out of curiosity, did you get much interest in her or any other stock while you were up at the ploughing ? Or is it mostly tyre kickers ?

vanderbadger

leg wax wrote: »

shes in the shed with her mother and all the young calves.are you interested in her:rolleyes:.

couldnt afford her wax id say
wouldnt mind seeing a pic of herself and her mother though if you get a chance some time

1chippy

Ag advisor told us to stay well clear of the parts, shes usually bang on the money. One breeder told us they didnt have near the potential he thought they would have and another said he wasnt gettin the big weights and with the colour people werent that sure about them yet when it came to buying.
All second hand info i know but i want to get a better look around at commercial crosses before i chance them. I'm only gettin back into farming recently so cant take too many gambles.

vanderbadger

1chippy wrote: »

Ag advisor told us to stay well clear of the parts, shes usually bang on the money. One breeder told us they didnt have near the potential he thought they would have and another said he wasnt gettin the big weights and with the colour people werent that sure about them yet when it came to buying.
All second hand info i know but i want to get a better look around at commercial crosses before i chance them. I'm only gettin back into farming recently so cant take too many gambles.

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PT bull calf from Ch cross cow, 330 kg made 890 euro in ennis, ididnt notice any problem with them thriving or putting on weight

blue5000

leg wax wrote: »

yea my 800 kg blonde cow in a dry shed:D.

Ya legs my 800kg blonde cow is in a shed as of 4pm this evening;) Wouldn't think shes 800 kg now either, she's been cleaning up leftovers since august.

Bizzum

Smashing calf there Vanderbadger. What is the second one in the pic?

@1Chippy, The only Part I've used so far was on a Sim heifer. She calved in the spring and has bred a lovely weanling heifer (Who will be kept for a cow). I wouldn't be one bit afraid to use Part again, in fact I intend bulling a few more heifers to BZB to see how they go, inc 2 PB Charolais heifers!

What's the worse that can happen?

funny man

ltec wrote: »

Most people say the cow needs plenty of milk but our cow which produces the best calves every year is a charlois cow which doesnt look too good and has little milk, calves every year herself and no trouble where as we have better cows with loads of milk and calves arent as good and they give more trouble with their elders because of loads of milk.

I hear this term being used by suckler farmers "having plenty of milk or having no milk" just wondering how do ye know which cows have what!

Bizzum

funny man wrote: »

I hear this term being used by suckler farmers "having plenty of milk or having no milk" just wondering how do ye know which cows have what!

Their calves will tell you!

vanderbadger

Bizzum wrote: »

Smashing calf there Vanderbadger. What is the second one in the pic?

@1Chippy, The only Part I've used so far was on a Sim heifer. She calved in the spring and has bred a lovely weanling heifer (Who will be kept for a cow). I wouldn't be one bit afraid to use Part again, in fact I intend bulling a few more heifers to BZB to see how they go, inc 2 PB Charolais heifers!

What's the worse that can happen?

pt bull from big old simm cow, was 360 kg but kinda plain, he made 800 which i was a bit disappointed with


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leg wax

vander did you give them much meal?

funny man

ltec wrote: »

Most people say the cow needs plenty of milk but our cow which produces the best calves every year is a charlois cow which doesnt look too good and has little milk, calves every year herself and no trouble where as we have better cows with loads of milk and calves arent as good and they give more trouble with their elders because of loads of milk.

Their calves will tell you

I thought as much, the size of the udder has no direct relation to the amount of milk a cow gives.

vanderbadger

leg wax wrote: »

vander did you give them much meal?

not really no, creep feeder out during the summer but to be honest id say the most meal these lads eat was the few weeks between weaning and selling them

red bull

vanderbadger wrote: »

pt bull from big old simm cow, was 360 kg but kinda plain, he made 800 which i was a bit disappointed with


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weanling prices seem much better at Tuam mart not much to be got for €800

shy_boy

Bizzum wrote: »

A couple of things a cow should have:

Plenty of milk.
Muscle in the genes, not necessarily on the arse.
Calve easily.
Go in calf easily.
Breed quality progeny.
Hardiness, longevity, decent carcase wgt, docile...........

Our owns cows are a mix of many breeds, I'm still trying to figure out which is the best combination. When I do, I'll keep it to myself.

I wonder have you figured this out bizzum,, if you have you should definitly spill the beans :cool::cool:, or at least pm me

Patzy3I

We have a ch cow and to look at her she's useless but yet over the last five years her calves average weanling weight was 420kg now while that don't make her the best cow ever it still ain't bad when we look her up on herd plus her star rating reflex her calves performance so for anyone who thinks it not worth the while and all the rest of it you need to catch up with time sense farming began the best any one could do is breed the best looking animals with each other now they're is another way while the best looking animal is still a big factor these statics aren't made up or anything icbf isn't out to get yeah it's their to help you and the sooner everyone comes into this century the sooner it can become more accurate another example is we us lm Bulls few years ago we bought a bull that was one star docility completely our own fault but because of it the cattle were unmanageable we now have a five star docility bull and walking through the stock they barely lift a head to look at you

whelan2

Patzy3I wrote: »

We have a ch cow and to look at her she's useless but yet over the last five years her calves average weanling weight was 420kg now while that don't make her the best cow ever it still ain't bad when we look her up on herd plus her star rating reflex her calves performance so for anyone who thinks it not worth the while and all the rest of it you need to catch up with time sense farming began the best any one could do is breed the best looking animals with each other now they're is another way while the best looking animal is still a big factor these statics aren't made up or anything icbf isn't out to get yeah it's their to help you and the sooner everyone comes into this century the sooner it can become more accurate another example is we us lm Bulls few years ago we bought a bull that was one star docility completely our own fault but because of it the cattle were unmanageable we now have a five star docility bull and walking through the stock they barely lift a head to look at you

That's one very long sentence.:rolleyes:

patsy_mccabe

whelan2 wrote: »

thats one very long sentence:rolleyes:

Oh the irony. Where is your capital letter and full stop.:D

whelan2

patsy_mccabe wrote: »

Oh the irony. Where is your capital letter and full stop.:D

my head was hurting trying to read it

Patzy3I

I'm a farmer not a scholar I don't care about my spelling or my full stops but even I can see time is moving on and people need to catch up. That's the trouble with people these days to posh and proper

Bullocks

Patzy3I wrote: »

I'm a farmer not a scholar I don't care about my spelling or my full stops but even I can see time is moving on and people need to catch up. That's the trouble with people these days to posh and proper

To posh and proper to catch up and believe the stars out of ICBF ?

CloughCasey1

Patzy whatever the rest of your name is. You've started on the wrong foot my friend. Its like you've been meaning to open an account for months and you've so many ideas and issues in your head that you've come on and registered and like a bull in a china shop and let loose. You won't change the world with one post. Ease yourself in a bit or close your account and start off on the right foot with a new one.