Borderlands 2

Penn

The Phantom Pain wrote: »

I am slightly confused about the co-op aspect, maybe you guys can help me understand: clearly the game is meant to be played with friends but what incentive is there for a level 50 vault hunter to play with a level 15 buddy on their story mission? Even if it’s for loot surely that wouldn’t be enough as the level 50 character could possibly acquire better loot in other ways? In Destiny 2 higher light level characters help out lower ones because often those missions may help the higher level character complete several bounties that week depending on what the bounty requirements are. You never waste time in Destiny because you’re always killing 2 birds with one stone.

There's pretty much no incentive at all to play co-op if your levels are that different. I think enemy and loot levels scale to whoever's hosting the game, so it'll either be impossible for the Lvl15 if they join the Lvl50, or the Lvl50 will one-shot everything if they join the Lvl15. This is changing in BL3 though, where you can pick so it'll scale automatically to each character's levels in their respective games, as well as independent loot pickups etc.

runawaybishop

The Phantom Pain wrote: »

First impressions:

I am enjoying it though and these are mostly nitpicks (aside from the humour and the vehicle which really are quite bad). The biggest barrier so far is that Bungie released a much better version of this game in 2017 IMO.

Destiny and borderlands are fundamentally different games.

Shiminay

runawaybishop wrote: »

Destiny and borderlands are fundamentally different games.

I don't see how you'd say that. Both sci-fi fps looter-shooters with co-op. Borderlands did it first, but Bungie's definitely refined it and leant into the MMO side of it a little heavier whereas Borderlands is more story driven.

gimli2112

The instructions that come with your tv are more story driven than Destiny. In fairness supposedly it had a great story that got cut, revised, jumbled up and stuck back together and never recovered from it.

Penn

gimli2112 wrote: »

The instructions that come with your tv are more story driven than Destiny. In fairness supposedly it had a great story that got cut, revised, jumbled up and stuck back together and never recovered from it.

Yeah and what story the game did have was mostly hidden in those Grimore cards you'd collect for doing things or hitting story points, but you couldn't even read them in the game, you had to log into a Bungie account on the website and read them there.

I really wanted to know why that wizard came from the Moon...

gimli2112

It's my most played game by a considerable distance and I still don't know what happened.

runawaybishop

Shiminay wrote: »

I don't see how you'd say that. Both sci-fi fps looter-shooters with co-op. Borderlands did it first, but Bungie's definitely refined it and leant into the MMO side of it a little heavier whereas Borderlands is more story driven.

Borderlands is a (mainly) single player casual shooter/rpg with an extensive story and well defined characters. Destiny is a multiplayer action game with little story/character development and focuses mainly around gunplay. They are totally different. I've seen a few videos comparing the two games and I just don't see the point.

Penn

runawaybishop wrote: »

Borderlands is a (mainly) single player casual shooter/rpg with an extensive story and well defined characters. Destiny is a multiplayer action game with little story/character development and focuses mainly around gunplay. They are totally different. I've seen a few videos comparing the two games and I just don't see the point.

I think in terms of what people will spend the bulk of their time doing in gameplay, they are quite similar. Class-based action skills, looting, FPS, raid bosses, even just generally playing in co-op (even though it's more of a choice in BL and perfectly playable without it, whereas Destiny is more geared towards it and forces it in many instances).

The tone, style, story etc is obviously completely different. But the base fundamentals of the games (looter-shooter FPS RPG) are very similar.

runawaybishop

Penn wrote: »

I think in terms of what people will spend the bulk of their time doing in gameplay, they are quite similar. Class-based action skills, looting, FPS, raid bosses, even just generally playing in co-op (even though it's more of a choice in BL and perfectly playable without it, whereas Destiny is more geared towards it and forces it in many instances).

The tone, style, story etc is obviously completely different. But the base fundamentals of the games (looter-shooter FPS RPG) are very similar.

I have played the **** out of both games and a space game with guns is about all they have in common imo.

wotzgoingon

I'm pretty proud of myself with the achievements on Xbox I managed to get in this game. It is actually a lot of work.

You're so close to getting them all!!!!! Though the challenge accepted one is a bit of work.

The only one I didn't get all the achievements in was the first game because screw that Moxxi DLC

Penn

The Phantom Pain wrote: »

That's a good change. I was level 6 when I was playing with a level 3 on my friend's list for the 'Friendship Rules' trophy when I realised other than that there was really no point. I suppose some benefits are that if you're trophy hunting you could technically get all the high level trophies out of order when your higher level friend completes a main mission without lifting a finger but even then you're just ruining the story for yourself. Also, if you're going for challenges they will be easier to do with a low level host if you're high level. Other than that I feel the game needs more co-op incentive. It would have been cool if there was a party system like Mass Effect with A.I. companions but then given I'm not a fan of the humour in this game it might not be such a good idea lol

I am playing more though and enjoying it more. Just finished the mission where I had to rescue the guy who was fending off all the machines. (Ron?) Levellled up quite a few times in that mission alone :eek:

Roland. He was one of the playable characters in the first Borderlands game. That's a tough mission, and is really where the story starts kicking in. Glad you're enjoying!

wotzgoingon

Did you play the head hunter DLC's they add a bit of XP while being new(as in it is not something you played already so not as boring) they are actually pretty fun as well.

Penn

The Phantom Pain wrote: »

Is there a faster way to open the golden chest other than quitting the session every time? I have about 25 keys but saving and quitting constantly is generally not a good idea and can lead to corrupted save files.

Once you take the gun(s) from the chest it'll close and you can open it again, so take everything from the chest even if you don't want them, then turn around and drop them from your inventory, and then you can open the chest again. You can also sell all the ones you've dropped in a nearby vending machine to rack up some big bucks.

Penn

Yeah TVHM is really where weapon choice and skill build really starts to have a huge impact (and becomes vital in UVHM). Best course of action for gunzerking is having a slag and shock weapon (eg. SMG slag and assault rifle shock) in your hands when you start gunzerking, then once shields are down or dropping switch to your best damage-doers in your other hands and shred them. Jakobs pistols with plenty of skills in the Gunlust tree (I'm your huckleberry, Divergent Likeness and especially Money Shot (with a class mod to boost this past 5 points if you can)) will take down most things with relative ease, and easily found/bought.

Once you complete TVHM and everything scales to Lvl50, farm Savage Lee in the Three Horns Divide for Double Penetrating Unkempt Harolds to replace the Jakobs pistols. It will kill all of the things.

Penn

The Phantom Pain wrote: »

Yep, that was pretty much my strategy on TVHM once my pistols became obsolete - slag and shock SMGs (corrosion for robots) and then just gunzerking with them until I was blue in the face. I did feel hamstrung into playing a certain way to get through solo rather than playing my way, which I think is the problem with TVHM. It takes away the unique style of play in favour of what is quite obviously supposed to be co-op gameplay – which fair enough, that’s a creative choice but it’s not for me. Normal mode FTW.

If anything, I'd say while UVHM was my favourite, Normal would be second. TVHM is kind of an in-between that's difficult, but because you're still being forced to level up so still mixing between weapons, changing it every few levels etc. UVHM everything always scales to you and it takes longer to level up, so it never feels like you're underpowered or you need to level up or get 1 or 2 levels higher equipment to make it through.

UVHM is where you have the most skill points and will have farmed most of the best weapons/shields, which means all the skills, buffs etc just create really fun (but difficult) fights.

Penn

The Phantom Pain wrote: »

I completed Captain Scarlett DLC and whilst enjoyable with interesting new enemy types, it did the same annoying thing of having the endgame bosses be way higher level than you are when you complete the DLC which meant I had to get my friend again to help me kill them. Why doesn't the end game boss just scale to your level i.e. if you finish the DLC at level 21 then the endgame boss is level 23? It's still going to be just as difficult as it would be at 32 if I'm level 30.

I'm now not sure whether I should do the other DLCs. On the one hand, my level 50 Salvador would wipe the floor with all the end games bosses (which only go up to level 35) so I wouldn't need to rely on team mates but on the other hand I much refer playing as the Siren and want to do all the DLCs with her. If I'm to kill the DLC bosses quickly and solo this time I'm gonna have to grind up to roughly level 50 which means...playing the dreadful TVHM again.

Bosses will tend to be two levels above you regardless, even when you get to level 50 they'll be 52. It's really just to signify the challenge in defeating them, but they're all absolutely beatable solo. The difference is, the higher the level you are, the more skill points you have and therefore better skills to keep you alive or do more damage.

In terms of the DLCs, the next one (Mr.Torgue's Campaign of Carnage) is actually pretty short and is quite funny, but there's also nothing new or interesting in it. Sir Hammerlock's Big Game Hunt has new enemy types and some new mechanics, but is pretty bland imo and can be easily skipped.

Regardless though, you should absolutely play Tiny Tina's Assault on Dragon's Keep. It's by far the best of the DLCs, introduces new mechanics, features and enemies, and is so well designed and structured. It's the toughest of them all, but it's really worth it.

Penn

The Phantom Pain wrote: »

My issue is not with the fact that raid bosses are 2 levels above which is why I said if I finished the DLC at 21 and the raid boss is 23 then I'd be happy. My issue is that the final raid boss for the Scarlet DLC is level 32 and you finish the DLC around level 21. That means beating a level 32 at level 21 would be impossble (as the game even states that the difficulty level due to difference is 'impossible'), requiring you to grind up to at least level 30 by playing the campaign again or other DLCs (provided you have them) just to get there.

It's the same problem in the main game where you have to play true vault hunter mode just to be able to go back and beat the raid boss in the normal game because even by doing all of the main game content and all of the DLCs you'll probably be no higher than level 37 when all is said and done. There are too many levels and not enough game to justify it which is why you are forced to repeat the entire campaign over and over.

Also, raid bosses do not scale beyond their set level. Yes, if you are level 30, the Scarlet raid bosses will be level 32. If you're level 50, the main game raid boss will be level 52 but once you go past that set level (i.e. 32, 52) that it's - the boss won't scale with you which is why it's so easily exploitable and how I did the 2 circle of slaughters on normal mode so easily solo at level 50.

Sorry, didn't cop you meant the raid bosses, thought you meant DLC story mission bosses.

Yeah there's a minimum set level for the raid bosses alright and then they scale up with you (though they reach a cap in NVHM and TVHM). The raid bosses are still hard as f*ck to kill as a level 50 when they're only level 35 or so. Absolute bullet sponges (or like Master Gee where you have to damage him with the acid pools). I think regarding the level disparity between the Captain Scarlett DLC and the raid boss is that it would have been expected you would have played through the main story first and would therefore be in the range of level 30-35 even without playing TVHM. While you can start the DLC from Level 16 (iirc) and play the story missions, the raid bosses just have a higher level requirement.

It's my main gripe with the raid bosses though, they're not meant to be beaten solo, and you usually have to rely on unbalanced gear exploits or exploits in the map to prevent/reduce damage in order to do it. Think it's only going to get worse in BL3 where they've talked about multi-stage raid bosses and possible puzzles, which will likely require more than one player.

EoinHef

I finished the main campaign yeaterday,had completed scarlett dlc during the playthrough.

The lack of scaling is a mess,underlevelled in parts and over levelled in parts. Some fights were way more trivial than i thought they would be then others felt tough for no real reason.

The game doesnt seem to be put together in a cohesive way. The fact the DLC has level caps but that doesnt get explained in game is seriously bad.

Im level 33 so im going to go do tiny tina dlc before id be over levelled for it. If i still wanna keep playing after that point ill just either start whatever that new mode is after the main campaign of pick a different character. Ive used zero till now but i feel im a little bored with him so maya next maybe

EoinHef

So started Tiny Tina DLC,i like the premise straight away,the missions seem to follow on better from each other so im happy out.

Then i notice enemy levels starting to rise very quicky,at first they were 32,which is fine as i was 33. Then they start to creep up,see a few 34/35 level enemies,then 36,37 etc but i still managing ok. I gave up at an enemy called Warlord Kuge or something though,he was level 39. So there i am at level 34 takin on a boss whos level is 5 above mine in a DLC that is supposed to be capped at 35. I really dont get the scaling in this game,like the gear in tiny tinas dlc is capping at my level,how am i supposed to get gear high enough to damage a boss.

After trying for awhile i gave up,went back to sanctuary and sold every weapon i had. Opened the golden chest a few times to get some gear,got nothing great after 10 keys so decided to give up for the night. Ill revisit it another time and try figure out if im missing something.

wotzgoingon

Have you all DLC's? If so play another to gain some XP or do those arena missions where you are in an arena and enemies come in waves. There is one in the Wild life Sanctuary and other places I cannot remember right now.

gimli2112

wotzgoingon wrote: »

Have you all DLC's? If so play another to gain some XP or do those arena missions where you are in an arena and enemies come in waves. There is one in the Wild life Sanctuary and other places I cannot remember right now.

The Fridge is another wavethon