Home Payments Company Liquidation

iMax

Just want to let any customers of Home Payments in Ranelagh know the company went into liquidation this morning.

Any bills in the last month may not have been paid, likewise any money you may have had there (savings from overpayment) is now gone.

There's a notice on homepayments.ie

iMax

Also just learned that they weren't registered with the financial regulators - how I don't know.

Nijmegen

Damn, they were a very good service and I know a lot of people who've used them going back more than a decade, I believe. Making a few phone calls now, to shocked individuals...

They really should move quickly to reassure their customers about their deposits and inform them where they stand with their bills.

Also, very stupid to see yet another Irish company that put all its eggs into the one property basket.

Rule Number 1 of Investing: Have a broad portfolio.

sham69

Was a customer (up to hearing today)
My mother was with them around 35 years ago.
Very good idea for people who are not good with bills (like me and the missus)
Luckily we had only rejoined them after moving again so not a lot of money to be recouped.

Sad to see them go, was wondering why or how they could go bust and then read about the property investment.

iMax

Yes they were a great company (going 45 years) & a great idea, but the amount of customers they had & the amoount of money they were dealing with (we paid in €500 a month) would put their turnover at about €15-20 million a year.

We've lost money, as have my parents & in-laws. One of my parents neighbours had €4.5k he was planning on using for his daughter's wedding in two months time

sham69

so what happens people that have money with them?
They won't get it back?
I think the mother in law has close to 5k in savings with them?

I don't know where WE stand with regard to bills paid etc

iMax

As far as I'm aware, we become unsecured creditors of the company. That's not a good thing. The site was updated at some point earlier today to say they are taking legal advice & are working to secure customers funds.

I'm hopeful that we will get something back, but I don't know what exactly, nor do I know how much ¢ on the €, nor how long it's likely to take.

Nijmegen

Well let's not jump ahead of the game - where did you get the advice that customers are unsecured creditors?

Don't presume, would be my advice, as a lot of people quite vulnerable could get very scared without reason.

Home payments has been going for decades (didn't realise how long till I spoke to a friend, his parents are with them 25 years) and was a way for people to put money away and pay their bills and not get caught, for example, having to go to loan sharks (back in the day when that was big...) It wasn't celtic tiger excess, though it seems the directors and the company decided it'd have a spin of the wheel.

Very sad.

Anyway, now a liquidator will need to be appointed and customers can, and I'd suggest they do, band together to make representations and find out what is happening for real.

Again, don't panic just yet.

iMax

Heard from the financial regulator that customers become unsecured creditors.

Apparently it'll be on Joe Duffy today.

SmeeAgain

customers would be last in line as part of the unsecured creditors, it's in the small print, unfortunately.
Where, how and when to find out who's appointed as liquidator / receiver / administrator?

Nijmegen

SmeeAgain wrote: »

customers would be last in line as part of the unsecured creditors, it's in the small print, unfortunately.
Where, how and when to find out who's appointed as liquidator / receiver / administrator?

As far as I can see, it has yet to be decided.

Nijmegen

iMax wrote: »

Heard from the financial regulator that customers become unsecured creditors.

Apparently it'll be on Joe Duffy today.

Was this on the news or similar...? I'd just like something concrete to give to people who are asking.

ebbsy

Financial regulator asleep at the wheel again.

iMax

Nijmegen wrote: »

Was this on the news or similar...? I'd just like something concrete to give to people who are asking.

Not on the news (as far as I can see it's not being covered). I was told by the financial regulator.

yosser hughes

ebbsy wrote: »

Financial regulator asleep at the wheel again.

The company wasn't regulated apparently. Not sure how they could have traded without being regulated by someone. Then again this is Ireland.
It's being discussed on Joe Duffy's show now.

iMax

They've been deleting comments on their facebook page. Someone's looking after the business.

jonnny68

Criminal charges should be brought against the Directors of this company,they have frittered away people's money without their prior consent on property deals which went belly up, they delete comments on the facebook page and issue a pathetic statement on their website with no inclination as to what is going to happen, people have lost a substantial amount of money, my mother is with them over 25 years,she has lost a large portion of money,she is not in great health and something like this is only going to make her worse with stress and worry about where money is going to come from to pay bills.

I have made a few calls to various different places like Money Advice and Budgeting Service,etc,etc, nothing more is known yet as to whether or not this company will go into liquidation or what, i feel sorry for the normal staff who worked there who knew nothing of this and are now on the ever increasing dole queue in this disaster of a country and even worse the people who have lost substantial amounts of money.

Ireland has to be the worst country in the developed world for things like this,gangsters,corruption and "cute hoors" galore.:mad:

iMax

This is the complaint form for the office of the director of corporate enforcement.

If you or someone you know is a customer of Home Payments, please fill it in & file it either by post at the address on it or email it to info@odce.ie.

There is something going on which should not be & the ODCE has the powers to freeze accounts & have the books audited.

jonnny68

iMax wrote: »

This is the complaint form for the office of the director of corporate enforcement.

If you or someone you know is a customer of Home Payments, please fill it in & file it either by post at the address on it or email it to info@odce.ie.

There is something going on which should not be & the ODCE has the powers to freeze accounts & have the books audited.

thanks for that, ill do this on behalf of my mother she doesn't use a PC or the Internet.

iMax

Just posted on the facebook page:

Home Payments Ltd, Sincerely regret the stress and concern caused to our customers and are doing everything to resolve the issues that have arisen as quickly as possible.
We are meeting with our bank and advisors.
We are not in a position to comment further at this point.
We will issue a statement as soon as we are in a position to do so.
Home Payments have been in business for 48 years.
What is of paramount importance to us, has and continues to be our customers.
Eamonn O'Connor
Managing Director

jonnny68

Crocodile tears from them, im sure Eamon O Connor wont be affected and still lives in his plush house and drives his fancy car and won't be out of pocket himself, bottom line is, they basically used their customers money on botched property deals,greed,greed and more greed and ended up things went t*ts up and now the company ceases to trade.

I would dearly love to be in a position to bring charges against these parasites and every banker,businessman and politician who have screwed the public over the years,is it any wonder the country is in ruins:mad:

1 ate e bhoy

The "Criminal Assets Burea" was set up to tackle the countries biggest criminals and seize their assets. The O'Connors have now joined that elite group by robbing their customers money and investing it in property without their consent. So why cant C.A.B. do the same to these new breed of Gangster's (Bankers included). I know i'll probably never see my money again (€4500)and will have some sleepless nights over it. But i would sleep a lot easier knowing that the O'Connors would be left in the same financial situation as myself BROKE !!
I dont know how these people live with themselves .
So come on C.A.B. lets have it.
P.S. Boycott "O Connor Insurance" they are related to "Home Payments"

iMax

Connor Insurance tried to distance themselves from it today but I think they're going to suffer a lot of fallout.

Incidently, my mother was away last week & took out travel insurance with Connors on advice from Home Payments. She found out today that Connors were not paid the €16 premium. Connors did wavw the charge out of goodwill, but I wonder would they have been as understanding should anything have happened while she was away ?

1 ate e bhoy

iMax wrote: »

Connor Insurance tried to distance themselves from it today but I think they're going to suffer a lot of fallout.

Incidently, my mother was away last week & took out travel insurance with Connors on advice from Home Payments. She found out today that Connors were not paid the €16 premium. Connors did wavw the charge out of goodwill, but I wonder would they have been as understanding should anything have happened while she was away ?

Thats a no brainer iMax we all know the answer to that one:mad:

1 ate e bhoy

By the way Eamon O' Connor resigned as a director of "O Connor Insurance" this week.
Hence the relationship with "Home Payments"
Suspect or what ????

iMax

New post on the website:

4th August 2011

To all our Customers, Staff and Friends.

Firstly we apologise for the lack of information that we have been able to provide today. It is not how we would wish to communicate but under the circumstances we are completely restricted in the information that we can give.

Given the nature of the service that we have provided to so many families over the last 48 years we sincerely apologise for the stress caused to those very same families.

There are a couple of points that we can clarify.

The decision to have to cease operating late Tuesday afternoon was unexpected. Once the decision was taken, all methods of receiving payments from our customers into our accounts were immediately stopped by ourselves including Direct Debits, Debit Cards and Cheques received that day which were not lodged. All collection staff were immediately instructed not to collect any money from customers. No Direct Debits have been processed since Tuesday.

We assure you that we are doing everything possible to ensure the best possible outcome for our customers as quickly as possible.

Eamonn O’Connor
Conor O’Connor
Niamh Ryan

frash

1 ate e bhoy wrote: »

By the way Eamon O' Connor resigned as a director of "O Connor Insurance" this week.
Hence the relationship with "Home Payments"
Suspect or what ????

How do you know this?

jank

Beyond belief that a service like this goes unregulated in a "modern" economy like Ireland. Shocking stuff. Did people know that they were unregulated before jumping in with them?

iMax

New Statement:

Eamonn Richardson of KPMG and Eamonn Leahy of Leahy & Co have today, (Friday 5 August, 2011) been appointed by the High Court as joint provisional liquidators to Home Payments Limited, the household and family financial management company, which ceased trading on Wednesday 4 August.

The liquidators have taken immediate control of the company to secure all assets, records and bank accounts. Customers will be individually contacted by the liquidators over the coming days who will assess and reconcile any funds owed to them by Home Payments Limited.

Established in 1963, Home Payments Ltd was a family run business based in Rathmines, Dublin 6. The company employs 16 people and has approximately 2,300 customers throughout Ireland.

The joint provisional liquidators have established a dedicated customer helpline to deal with all queries following today’s developments. The helpline will be open from 8.30hrs to 18.00hrs Monday to Friday and will open on Monday morning. The helpline number is 01 497 5795. Alternatively customers can make contact by email at homepayments@leahy.ie .

later12

iMax wrote: »

New post on the website:

4th August 2011

To all our Customers, Staff and Friends.

That's really not how you communicate with 'friends'.

ebbsy

What I d'ont understand is that Solicitors/Insurance companies etc operate client accounts which have cash in and out, with balances which must be vouched for the relevant bodies. There are serious consequences if there are problems.

Yet this company, which operates a similar fashion, was not regulated for 25 years ?

Also I was listening to the Consumer agency on Liveline today. They are as much use as a chocolate teapot.

Slideshowbob

I can see people of this thread may suffer because of this liquidation but having heard bits of the joe duffy show today can I ask why people would not just manage their own monetary affairs rather than trust this unregulated organisation?

Also. Why does the NCA have to do anything with tax payers money to cover losses experienced by individuals who put money in, I'll say it again, an unregulated business?

Of course if the taxpayer / NAMA is paying 200k a year to failed developers and offering them bonuses if they make "profits" on written off loans, sure why not save these people too

jonnny68

Slideshowbob wrote: »

I can see people of this thread may suffer because of this liquidation but having heard bits of the joe duffy show today can I ask why people would not just manage their own monetary affairs rather than trust this unregulated organisation?

Also. Why does the NCA have to do anything with tax payers money to cover losses experienced by individuals who put money in, I'll say it again, an unregulated business?

Of course if the taxpayer / NAMA is paying 200k a year to failed developers and offering them bonuses if they make "profits" on written off loans, sure why not save these people too

I can see people of this thread may suffer because of this liquidation but having heard bits of the joe duffy show today can I ask why people would not just manage their own monetary affairs rather than trust this unregulated organisation?

you see mate Home Payments' customers are mostly from the old skool,people like for example my ma who never was a customer of theirs for decades and trusted them this is before direct debits and all,etc was introduced,sure why wouldn't she trust them as previously she never had any trouble with them,most of their customers were from a different generation who didn't use computers,some didn't even have bank accounts and just payed a feee to Home payments to pay all their bills and ultimately these parasites are the ones who have effectively robbed them of thousands.

I truly hope criminal charges are brought against these people for what they have done.

Red Actor

ebbsy wrote: »

Financial regulator asleep at the wheel again.

Apparently there is no regulator - just like there's none for debt collection, rent collection, car sales or bicycle shops. He has enough on his plate without having to check things where he has no rights or powers.

The question is should these be regulated? Regulation is paid by the regulated or the tax payer or a bit from each. Taxpayer trying to reduce costs, business trying to reduce costs. Nobody wants to pay for regulation but want the good stuff the comes with it. A regulator cannot stop all evil - the Law Society (solicitors regulator) have failed to prevent solicitors from taking people's money.

Do the sums on how much a watchdog would cost and the money at stake - . A mid level civil servant with a staff of 4 would cost €250k each year before they rent an office and travel to check out businesses. The sums involved in this case, while big and heartbreaking to the individuals, would be spent/wasted in a year or two. Sledgehammer for a nut methinks - be careful what you wish for.

ScouseMouse

jonnny68 wrote: »

you see mate Home Payments' customers are mostly from the old skool,people like for example my ma who never was a customer of theirs for decades and trusted them this is before direct debits and all,etc was introduced,sure why wouldn't she trust them as previously she never had any trouble with them,most of their customers were from a different generation who didn't use computers,some didn't even have bank accounts and just payed a feee to Home payments to pay all their bills and ultimately these parasites are the ones who have effectively robbed them of thousands.

I truly hope criminal charges are brought against these people for what they have done.

I confess I have not been following this to closely, but I think your comment about parasites robbing people is to much.

I have a friend who is about 70, has used them for years and years and said they were lovely. She never had a day of trouble with them. They called out to her house, collected her cash and paid it to the relevant companies for years and years. Its looking like they are another victim of the recession. They may have tried to work through it and failed, but to call them parasites and to suggest they robbed people is to much.

Maybe it will (or has) come out this was deliberate, but I cannot see that yet.

Jaysoose

Using clients funds to invest in their sister company that was tied into the property sector is not stealing?

The directors of this company have serious questions to answer as they were investing peoples money without their knowledge.

1 ate e bhoy

superscouse wrote: »

I confess I have not been following this to closely, but I think your comment about parasites robbing people is to much.

I have a friend who is about 70, has used them for years and years and said they were lovely. She never had a day of trouble with them. They called out to her house, collected her cash and paid it to the relevant companies for years and years. Its looking like they are another victim of the recession. They may have tried to work through it and failed, but to call them parasites and to suggest they robbed people is to much.

Maybe it will (or has) come out this was deliberate, but I cannot see that yet.

can i start by saying i am with Homepayments 22 years and i never had one bad day,month, year of grievence with this company. Their staff were the most helpful courtious people i have ever come across from the office girls to the collectors never a cross word. I have never received a threating letter from any of my bill collectors and everything was paid on time.This was a working class man's way of paying bills and for me it was a godsent 22years ago.They only had according to reports 2300 customers by all accounts this is minimal and most of these customers including myself were pre internet customers and most would'nt even know what a regulator was. It was a hand written accounts book which worked for me for 22 years and believe it or not i did'nt even know they had a website until the bad news broke.Putting all this aside the directors must have known all of the above and still decided to play roulette with the money of the most vunerable people in society and lost. And now just dust themselves off and say that did'nt work. And because they have never expierenced why we joined them in the first place will never know how much carnage they have caused to hard workingclass people who put their trust in them for 48 years and some will never recover from this. And i know some people will say its only a few grand but to most of us its a little nest egg that we built up over the years and it has just been written off as a bad debt.I again repeat as in an earlier post i do not expect a cent back from this debacle but i do expect the Directors of Homepayments to be made accountable for the 2300 lives that they have made another statistic of the greed ridden rich of this country.
I WONT HOLD MY BREATH !!!!!

ScouseMouse

You echo the sentiments of my friend, she says they were great.

If it does transpire the directors are swanning around in 11 D beemers, between breaks to their second home in the south of france, then go get em.

If it transpires things were turning bad and they tried to knuckle down and work through it but failed, well, they are another victim of the recession.

Insurance companies invest their money in the stock market. Then the returns go into the pot to handle claims and the like. It is not uncommon to do this. Its just what is happening in Ireland is unprecendented. Just look at the BIG names that have fallen, and there are more to come - I am sure of it.

Sniffy30

Hi all my personal view on “Home Payments” is its primary function was to facilitate people with bill paying and personal finance/savings etc…. for a quarterly fee ….however what I don’t understand is, the so called company directors had no authority to speculate on the property market with other people’s hard earned money for bills & savings…..or am I missing something.?

iMax

Not missing anything at all sniffy.

Recieved the following email an hour ago after registering my details with them: (my emphasis in bold).

Dear Mr XXXXX,

The position regarding the company Home Payments Limited in liquidation is as follows.

This company ceased trading on the 4th of August. The liquidators Eamonn Richardson of KPMG and Eamonn Leahy of Leahy & Co. were appointed on the 5th of August. A dedicated helpline will open 08.30 Monday 8th and will operate within normal business hours, the number is 01-4975795.

The liquidators have secured company assets and started their work. A detailed investigation into the affairs of the company will be carried out over the coming months.

No further payments will be made on behalf of customers. There will be no refund of monies paid to customers. The liquidators will issue a letter to all customers shortly setting out the current position. This letter will include a claim form which we would ask all customers to complete and return upon receipt.

I am not in a position to confirm balances except by post if you email me your account numbers I will write to you with the most recent balance recorded on the system

Regards

Eamonn Leahy
Joint Liquidator

Now, it seems that customers have lost everything & on the surface, the directors may get away with it, if there's no money there to pay anyone (although they have €2.5m cash in the bank), then everyone is gonna get screwed over.

Anyone know if it is possible for customers (like me) to pass this debt to a private debt collector to chase the directors for ? I didn't know of their investments, not authorise the use of my funds for this purpose, therefore they have a debt to me.

pistolpetes11

My Parents were both with this company for over 20 years ,

My father took very ill bout 20 years ago and he said if it wasnt for the home payments they would not of made it through financially.

Any way they have about 6K in savings with the company both in there late 60's and are fairly distraught at the news.

I really hope the company directors are brought up on charges , in my eyes and they have just robbed my folks of there rainy day fund, blood is boiling !

iMax

I called the "helpline" this morning. It's pretty much a placebo for those who wouldn't be able to find out otherwise.

Anyway, there's a letter going out to all creditors (customers) this week with a claim form, fill in your details, account number etc.

The company has approx. 2300 customers. They have assets of approx. €2.5m in cash, & some property, (wether that's the property they lost our money on, I don't know) & various other assets that they guy didn't know the detail of.

Unfortunately the secured creditors (i.e. none of the customers) will be repaid first on a pro-rata basis then if there's anything left, the staff will get what they're owed & after that it will be the customers, again on a pro-rata basis. He did say it's highly unlikely that the customers will get anything. He wasn't able tot tell me the level of debt they have either.

I asked if the directors would face criminal charges & he said it's up the the liquidator, wether he finds anything untoward or illegal in their dealings.

I'll take months & I have this horrible feeling that they're going to walk with minimum jailtime/fine.

iMax

Looks like the Gardaí will not be investigating the misappropriation of funds.

Evening Herald:

By Conor Feehan
Wednesday August 10 2011

GARDAI have told victims of the Home Payments Ltd collapse that the loss of their money is not a criminal matter.

Customers with the Dublin company have been advised that any fall-out from the firm ceasing to trade is a "civil matter", the Herald has learned.

Mother-of-three Cathy McDermott, from Drogheda, says that her family, including her mother and brother, have lost €20,000 to Home Payments.

"When I went to the garda station in Laytown yesterday I was told it was a civil matter, and that I should go to the ombudsman instead."

Liquidation

"I've been with Home Payments 14 years myself, but my mother is with them 30 years, and we just can't believe what has happened.

"The question I have is who gave them permission to spend my money on anything other than paying bills?"

At least two women who have lost thousands with the bill paying and savings company that went into liquidation last week have gone to their local garda stations to make formal complaints about the company.

But they are being told the matter is a civil one and that they should either get a solicitor involved or raise the issue with the ombudsman.

But both women, who listened to the Home Payments collapse being discussed on radio last Friday, heard Ann Fitzgerald of the National Consumer Agency saying that using clients' money for something they've not been told about is "theft".

"The directors should be arrested. If somebody gave me money to pay a bill and I didn't do it I'd be arrested for sure," Tallaght mother-of-two Betty Costello, who had been with Home payments for eight years, told the Herald.

Betty said she has looked at all the small print in the book she was issued from Home Payments and there is nothing to indicate that her money could be used for any purpose except paying her bills.

"Getting a solicitor will cost more money. I just don't know where I stand," she added.

A message on the Home Payments website now says that liquidators have been appointed and that "customers will be individually contacted by the liquidators over the coming days who will assess and reconcile any funds owed to them by Home Payments Limited".

It also says the joint provisional liquidators have established a dedicated customer helpline which is open from 8.30am to 6pm, Monday to Friday.

The helpline is 01 497 5795. Customers can email at homepayments@leahy.ie.

STOPPED

"The decision to have to cease operating late Tuesday afternoon was unexpected.

Once the decision was taken, all methods of receiving payments from our customers into our accounts were immediately stopped by ourselves including direct debits, debit cards and cheques received that day which were not lodged," the company statement reads.

I'm fuming at this. Although my loss was small compared to some, it was still a substantial amount of money to us. We didn't know they were using our funds for this purpose & it's plain & simple theft (if not embezzlement & fraud).

AlekSmart

iMax wrote: »

Looks like the Gardaí will not be investigating the misappropriation of funds......

......I'm fuming at this. Although my loss was small compared to some, it was still a substantial amount of money to us. We didn't know they were using our funds for this purpose & it's plain & simple theft (if not embezzlement & fraud).

It's so VERY Irish that all of the high-flowery prose concerning Financial Regulation,misappropriation and the associated by products of the "Financial-Product" era is rapidly put aside when its the great-unwashed who are being robbed. (And Robbery is what is its)

It's even more ironic that the vast majority of Home Payment's customers were solid,social-minded folk who were keen to PAY THEIR BILLS......not a practice which appears to faze many of the bigger fish one sees mentioned in Financial media these days.

Yet more irony is piled on when one will see Banking Institutions,who "facilitated" Home-Payments to get involved in the rapacious property boom,now queuing up to pursue individuals on loan or HP payments which Home-Payments should have paid over to those same institutions.....Sheesh...is this Father Teddery or what ???

iMax

It gets worse. Reconciled statement arrived this morning. Loss is 2.5 times the amount originally quoted by them. They withheld the proper balance. Bastards.

ScouseMouse

Just got a call from my friend. The balance shown is different to what she thought and there was a Bord Gais payment on it.

They were sent a statement by the liquidator belonging to someone else from Cabra !, so check the name at the top !!!

She also got her own one and it shows a balance of 2,500 euro while the lady herself thought it was only 800 ish.

mmmmmm.....

harbardog

they owe me 2,500 i wont be letting them away with that,i think ill be knocking on a few doors,im from tallaght so i dont have far to go,i dont believe in the system,i find doing it yourself gets better results.

Sniffy30

Hi all,

Has anone heard in the media today customers of Home Payments will be getting pack a portion of their money ??

Steve

dunboynebohs

Well, it looks like Irish justice has once again been served on the ordinary working class people with the news that Home Payments customers are to receive 20-25% of THEIR money back. The usual scenario that the rich get away without any real consequences for their actions. These people took our money and gambled it on the property market and lost, but dont have to pay it back. The fact that they were paid a quarterly fee to provide the service that they offered should mean that investing the money for their own gain was an illegal act. Where is all the millions that they made using our money when times were good, and if we are allowed to lose when things go bad, then surely we should have been paid some sort of a dividend when our money was used to their benefit. Im sure the directors are still living in their big houses, driving their big cars and taking expensive holidays while some of their old customers are struggling to pay the debts that Home Payments were given money to pay.