Offer of Medicine, thinking bout not taking it.

MLH1

Got an offer on UL medicine, from GAMSAT result 2 years ago, am I mad not to take it. Just when I look at 4 years of college, intern year, SHO years, bringing me to ten years time, no guarantees - actually probably impossible to stay in the Country I dunno, I am in my mid 20's and cant see the motivation. Nothing is ever written in stone, could always resit the GAMSAT in years again. Cant believe UL went so low, not entering into a chat about UL bashing please. Any info gratefully appreciated.

opinion guy

If you really want to do medicine do it. Then again if you are not that pushed don't.
I wouldn't kid yourself that you could always sit it again in the future - the road ahead will be just as long and you will be older.
Time abroad will likely always be a part of Irish docs careers at one point or another. But abroad can just be the UK of course.
Seems like now is your time to make decision, no ?

imported_guy

if you're not motivated enough dont do it and pass your place on ... someone might be dying to take it on the waiting list... you might end up wasting 13-15k or what ever the fee is if you accept and then get second thoughts later on...

Mack_1111

Hey,

I'm 32 and went back to college last year as a mature student to study medicine. 1st year down and looking down the barrel of another 4 years as well, but I'm looking forward to it! It's an interesting course, challenging and rewarding.

If you'r going for medicine for the right reasons and if you think you have an aptitude for it then I'd say go for it.

If you want to know more send me a PM.

MLH1

Well its more the though of how could I live with myself if I missed something in a patient and they died or were left with a preventable illness as a result of it.

imported_guy

MLH1 wrote: »

Well its more the though of how could I live with myself if I missed something in a patient and they died or were left with a preventable illness as a result of it.

sorry if i sound condecending but thats something you think about before sitting the gamsat/embarking on a new career. all is not lost though if thats the only reason, you should accept it, its part of the job you lose people but you also save people. you could later on chose a speciality where you dont have to deal with people dying (much), dermatology, opthamology, diagnostic radiology, pain management how ever theres only so much shelter you can have from seeing people die, there would obviously be senarios in the above mentioned specialities where you might have patients die.

ballsymchugh

when you're in a hospital, you'll have a team of people around you that will have been doing their work for years, so will be able to point you in the right direction.
then, if you're still not sure, you can call your consultant. the worst thing you can do is fire ahead if you're not sure. there's always people to ask.
even if you go the GP route, once in a while someone will come in that doesn't have a cold or something and you'll be racking your brains trying to remember what it is. your phone will be beside you and you can refer on to someone who will know.
i know plenty of people who went back to do medicine in their mid 20's and have gotten on well in it.
what are you doing now if you don't mind me asking? there's very very few people who reach the top of their non-sporting career in their late 20s.

MLH1

Currently I am work in a lab. 9-5 regular hours, not running about the place, prospect of good wages and eventually permanent job. Would be 12-15 years before I would have a job in medicine where I would be in the same place year after year.

spagboll

time wasters need not apply

Larianne

You have to ask yourself why you applied for Medicine in the first place.

ballsymchugh

12-15 years would be an extremely long haul these times. you can get training programs that take 6-8 years nowadays, but due to funding cuts, you'd need to factor in a year or 2 in the UK/USA/Canada.
if you don't want to settle in one place, then you really shouldn't be in any job looking for a permanent position. that argument doesn't make sense.

MLH1

Well sat the GAMSAT initially, as I was unemployed and really wanted to be a doctor, about 2 years ago, but honestly think that has all gone by the wayside, really cant believe how UL went to 54* is anyone else so shocked by this?

Larianne

MLH1 wrote: »

Well sat the GAMSAT initially, as I was unemployed and really wanted to be a doctor, about 2 years ago, but honestly think that has all gone by the wayside, really cant believe how UL went to 54* is anyone else so shocked by this?

Well don't accept the offer and allow someone who has their heart and soul set on doing medicine take the place.

MLH1

ballsymchugh wrote: »

if you don't want to settle in one place, then you really shouldn't be in any job looking for a permanent position. that argument doesn't make sense.

No sorry I mean I dont want to be a 35 year old doctor, moving from Letterkenny to Waterford to Dundalk every 6 months, when the rest of my piers are settled, sorry for the confusion.

imported_guy

MLH1 wrote: »

Well sat the GAMSAT initially, as I was unemployed and really wanted to be a doctor, about 2 years ago, but honestly think that has all gone by the wayside, really cant believe how UL went to 54* is anyone else so shocked by this?

well yes we are shocked lol, more shocked at people with 55s wanting to refuse because now all of a sudden they dont want to study medicine or dont want to do it at UL cause thats all they were able to get etc, some people would be happy to study medicine from a cave in afghanistan given the opportunity and a internationally recognized degree parchment at the end of it all

ballsymchugh

MLH1 wrote: »

No sorry I mean I dont want to be a 35 year old doctor, moving from Letterkenny to Waterford to Dundalk every 6 months, when the rest of my piers are settled, sorry for the confusion.

ah ok. you need to think about number 1 though. a good training program is usually centred in one area (near what some might call a centre of excellence!) so if you get through unscathed and have a fair idea where you want to end up, then the moving won't be that big a deal. you'd only be moving like that if you apply for posts at the last minute.

MLH1

Thanks for all the imput guys I def keep ye posted.

imported_guy

MLH1 wrote: »

Thanks for all the imput guys I def keep ye posted.

deffo! and what ever your decision let us know what influenced it incase someone else is in this position next year! good luck!

theg81der

MLH1 wrote: »

Well its more the though of how could I live with myself if I missed something in a patient and they died or were left with a preventable illness as a result of it.

The fact that you care makes you a better candidate than a lot of docs out there at the moment. If your cabable of doing the course and your health and stamina allow you to put up with the first few difficult training years why not? At worst you have a portable qualification with access to any country in the world at best you have an opportunity to make a difference in the world.

I hope you always care if you make the mistakes, there aren`t enough good doctors out there! Wish I had you aptitude and ability.

bluewall

I'm sorry but this is why the Irish system needs to change!! It allows too many people to dip their toes into the water with no commitment or intentions of following through. In no other country would this be acceptable. Aside from the academics and exam scores you need to get through interviews, display a relevant CV with adequate work experience - show true commitment to your future cause!!

It's very sad to see, especially when other people with good aspirations miss out.

IMO, If you decide to go ahead with the offer then keep up the research on career paths and work hard toward where you want to go. If, as you say, you have been working in labs and happen to be involved with studies & research paper's etc then you are doing yourself a lot of favours when it comes to applying for training posts and so on.

Otherwise you should step aside and give someone else a fair chance. The longer you leave it, the more you are disadvantaging some one else coming in late to the course - finding accommodation, orientation of libraries/lecture theatres, new books & info, catching up on missed work - the list goes on. Never mind the 13k you'll lose if you start and then drop out!!

Best of luck with whatever you do. You're making a bold but wise decision if you take a place on any medical course. But one thing, expect to work bloody hard because it's very different to sitting in a lab 9-5 every day (I did it myself for 2 years) I can tell you!!

opinion guy

theg81der wrote: »

The fact that you care makes you a better candidate than a lot of docs out there at the moment. If your cabable of doing the course and your health and stamina allow you to put up with the first few difficult training years why not? At worst you have a portable qualification with access to any country in the world at best you have an opportunity to make a difference in the world.

I hope you always care if you make the mistakes, there aren`t enough good doctors out there! Wish I had you aptitude and ability.

This x 1000.

For what its worth OP - you are the type of person we need as doctors. please ignore all this guff about moving aside for people who really want it etc. We actually need people like you with standards, ethics and a conscience to come in and challenge the system. We don't need more mindless drones who always wanted to be a doctor so badly they will work through an unchallenged retarded system without complaint that puts lives at risk only to settle down and reap the rewards with a nice fat consultant job after "serving their time".

MonDieu

If its any consolation MLH1, I'm on the fence as well. Received a offer of a place in UCC and while I'm delighted to get it and have done oodles of research, thinking about the next 8-10 years is a little daunting and scary. Reckon its now or never for me as I'm turning 29 this year, but I'm going to take the weekend to decide. Remember, its your decision at the end of the day and I wish you the best of luck with it!

Nonoperational

I just finished first year GEM. I found the thought of going back much worse then the reality of being there. It was a great year, really enjoyed it.

Your point about making a mistake or missing something is understandable, but in reality it becomes less and less of an issue as you go forward. If you act honestly and within the your area of expertise and do the best you can for the patient then you won't be doing anything wrong.

Wilhelmet

bluewall wrote: »

I'm sorry but this is why the Irish system needs to change!! It allows too many people to dip their toes into the water with no commitment or intentions of following through. In no other country would this be acceptable. Aside from the academics and exam scores you need to get through interviews, display a relevant CV with adequate work experience - show true commitment to your future cause!!

It's very sad to see, especially when other people with good aspirations miss out.

Gotta say, I completely agree. The irish system needs to tighten up it's application procedure to make sure that people are as committed as possible before they are allowed to study. In the UK, you won't even get a sniff of a place if you haven't put in an immense amount of work experience in advance (I'm talking at least 6 months, but more like 1 year plus), and written a personal statement that absolutely 100% convinces them that you have thought your choices through and are committed to doing this, and for the right reasons, and ONLY then, do you actually get an interview, by which they determine if you're a genuine case or not. Medicine isn't just a career choice.....as mentioned above, there are serious consequences in it as a job. It deserves to have people doing it that are certain they want to it. It demands it, really. The irish system needs to come up to speed on this.

Sorry MLH1, please don't think I'm having a go.....far from it. But as someone mentioned above, there are probably people who would give their right lung to study medicine in a shack in afghanistan, let alone the opportunity you have.....and age will be the furthest thing from their mind. I'm 30, and will be starting this year......and really, I couldn't give a monkey about the years, and I'm uprooting my life completely to do it. I'm not saying everyone has to have that 'extreme' commitment....but I just know that I need to study it, and I know it's not going to go away.

But really, best of luck with the decision, though. Just think it through fully..

bubbleking

re the application procedure

because Ireland is such a small place (in relative terms) we cannot adopt the same college entrance methods as the UK. Someone is bound to know someone on the interview comittee or the personal statement could be taken in a bias way.

The CAO and the GAMSAT is designed to pick the best canditates and is the fairest way that cannot include bias.

Im not saying I agree with it but its hard to change something that is 100% fair

Wilhelmet

bubbleking wrote: »

re the application procedure

because Ireland is such a small place (in relative terms) we cannot adopt the same college entrance methods as the UK. Someone is bound to know someone on the interview comittee or the personal statement could be taken in a bias way.

The CAO and the GAMSAT is designed to pick the best canditates and is the fairest way that cannot include bias.

Im not saying I agree with it but its hard to change something that is 100% fair

Yeah, I know what you mean bubbleking, and unfortunately you're right. I mean, if they had the system here that they have in the UK, the gamsat pass score for 'just an interview' would probably be in the 40's!!

But yeah, it's just disappointing that there isn't something a tad more comprehensive to judge people going into the profession. But like I said, you're right, it's hard to see what could be done for a country like/the size of Ireland. I do think they should insist on some work experience though, just to show a basic level of commitment, beyond academia.

opinion guy

Sorry MLH1, please don't think I'm having a go.....far from it. But as someone mentioned above, there are probably people who would give their right lung to study medicine in a shack in afghanistan, let alone the opportunity you have.....and age will be the furthest thing from their mind.

This does not qualify someone to do the job. MLH1 got better grades. If someone really wants it they can apply again next year.

Wilhelmet wrote: »

and written a personal statement that absolutely 100% convinces them that you have thought your choices through and are committed to doing this, and for the right reasons, and ONLY then, do you actually get an interview, by which they determine if you're a genuine case or not.

Personal statements are a god-awful, formulaic, inefficient, arbitrary way of judging whether someone is fit for a job or not (much less an interview for a course for a job) and the entire concept should be pissed on, burned with fire, doused in acid, sealed into a canister, and sent back to America whence such notions have come from in the first place

Wilhelmet

opinion guy wrote: »

Personal statements are a god-awful, formulaic, inefficient, arbitrary way of judging whether someone is fit for a job or not (much less an interview for a course for a job) and the entire concept should be pissed on, burned with fire, doused in acid, sealed into a canister, and sent back to America whence such notions have come from in the first place

While I'm certainly no fan of them myself, they only really make sense in the specific context of the other UK application requirements. Ie: The personal statement is used by the applicant to discuss the details of the work experience/etc they've carried out, and is then used in the interview as something for the interviewer to use to ask questions against.

On it's own, sure.....turd-water, pretty much. But it serves a purpose when put together with the other elements required.

Wilhelmet

opinion guy wrote: »

This does not qualify someone to do the job. MLH1 got better grades. If someone really wants it they can apply again next year.


Ok, of course MLH1 got better grades and is therefore perfectly entitled to take their rightful place, no one is questioning that. However, they're also asking for advice about whether they 'should' or not, and whether it will be right for them.....which was the point of that comment.

opinion guy

Wilhelmet wrote: »

opinion guy wrote: »

This does not qualify someone to do the job. MLH1 got better grades. If someone really wants it they can apply again next year.


Ok come on, this is a bit pedantic. Of course MLH1 got better grades and is therefore perfectly entitled to take their rightful place, no one is disputing that. However, they're also is asking (this whole threads' point) for advice about whether they 'should' or not, and whether it will be right for them.....which was the whole point of that comment.

But the guy is entitled to his doubts is he not ? He entitled to ponder his decision before making it ? He's taking real stock of his fears, and giving genuine consideration to the commitment. Frankly I think he should be applauded. Instead he is being beaten up by those who seem outraged that he dare ponder things. Let me guess - you all didn't get in first time or via your preferred route???

Just because someone is gun-ho to do medicine does not mean they are any more likely to get through it that MLH1. In fact I think if MLH1 runs into problems along the way he will have at least had mature reflection done ahead of time and less likely to freak out. The gun-ho wannabe docs who haven't ever considered doing anything else are far more likely to freak out and crash out if you ask me

imported_guy

opinion guy wrote: »

But the guy is entitled to his doubts is he not ? He entitled to ponder his decision before making it ? He's taking real stock of his fears, and giving genuine consideration to the commitment. Frankly I think he should be applauded. Instead he is being beaten up by those who seem outraged that he dare ponder things. Let me guess - you all didn't get in first time or via your preferred route???

Just because someone is gun-ho to do medicine does not mean they are any more likely to get through it that MLH1. In fact I think if MLH1 runs into problems along the way he will have at least had mature reflection done ahead of time and less likely to freak out. The gun-ho wannabe docs who haven't ever considered doing anything else are far more likely to freak out and crash out if you ask me

if i'm a consultant, i'd rather have an active 26 year old as an intern rather than an unmotivated 36 year old. that is all.