Green Bay Packers Thread

Blut2

They should certainly be tanking it now, now that they're 100% out of playoff contention. Give Rodgers the last couple games off and get higher up the draft picks.

There are 6 teams currently on 5 wins, 4 teams on 6 wins and 3 teams on 7 wins. The Packers are currently on 5 wins and a draw, so could realistically finish either above or below all of those teams based on the next two results.

So losing the next 2 games vs winning the next 2 games could potentially result in moving up or down 13 places in the draft, thats pretty huge.

Plus it'd do Rodgers no harm to get a few less miles on the clock. QBs have a per game injury chance rate of 2.5% in the NFL. Is it worth risking a 5% chance of injury to him over the next two games for absolutely nothing?

raze_them_all_

Brendan Bendar wrote: »

Are you suggesting the Packers should have tanked the season?

I'm suggesting when you trade first rounders away for mid round picks your qb is busted up and you only have a tiny minescule chance of getting to playoffs you rest said qb.

Brendan Bendar

Blut2 wrote: »

They should certainly be tanking it now, now that they're 100% out of playoff contention. Give Rodgers the last couple games off and get higher up the draft picks.

There are 6 teams currently on 5 wins, 4 teams on 6 wins and 3 teams on 7 wins. The Packers are currently on 5 wins and a draw, so could realistically finish either above or below all of those teams based on the next two results.

So losing the next 2 games vs winning the next 2 games could potentially result in moving up or down 13 places in the draft, thats pretty huge.

Plus it'd do Rodgers no harm to get a few less miles on the clock. QBs have a per game injury chance rate of 2.5% in the NFL. Is it worth risking a 5% chance of injury to him over the next two games for absolutely nothing?

I would not support tanking to get higher draft picks.

WhAt I would support is that Kizer gets the remaining games and that the newbies get game time

J’mon Moore, Kumerow, Tonyan, etc.... shut down the lads with miles on the clock and see where it takes us.

Rogers wants to play,but he really has t deserved that all season.

Give Kizer a chance.

Blut2

Anyone watch the full game last night? How did Kizer look?

In the match highlights reel he has a couple of nice throws and a few nice runs, but also a couple of panic-y throws that led to an interception and an almost interception:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5qABEaKojgM

Its hard to get an overall feel for a player's performance from a highlights clip though.

Brendan Bendar

Blut2 wrote: »

Anyone watch the full game last night? How did Kizer look?

In the match highlights reel he has a couple of nice throws and a few nice runs, but also a couple of panic-y throws that led to an interception and an almost interception:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5qABEaKojgM

Its hard to get an overall feel for a player's performance from a highlights clip though.

He did ok for a lad who came in for an injury to the #1 QB

Over threw and underthrew quite a bit , did a lot with his legs which I don’t really rate on a QB who is basically in ‘thrash time’ from Q1.

I would be happy if he is the back up for next season.

UnitedIrishman

Our new HC.. is...

Matt LaFleur.

Yeah. That's underwhelming.

Jofspring

Can't say I know anything about him. He is young though so might have fresh ideas. The fact they are supposed to have interviewed a lot of potentials then he must have impressed.

Will either turn out to be a genius appointment or the mother of all cock ups.

peejay1986

Jofspring wrote: »

Can't say I know anything about him. He is young though so might have fresh ideas. The fact they are supposed to have interviewed a lot of potentials then he must have impressed.

Will either turn out to be a genius appointment or the mother of all cock ups.

Exactly my view.

I'll reserve judgement. Glad they got it sorted early though, and seemingly after seeing a good number of people.

Now, get to work LeFluer. You've a lot to get done.

helimachoptor

Surprising that he's the guy, given that mariota had a bad season stats wise(injuries didnt help).

OldMrBrennan83

helimachoptor wrote: »

Surprising that he's the guy, given that mariota had a bad season stats wise(injuries didnt help).

Take a look at the San Francisco 49ers 2005 offense.

Brendan Bendar

From the reaction on line seems to be a good appointment.

He is only 39 which is good.

Experienced in the West Coast offense which is what the Packers use.

Will probably keep Pettine as DC.. hmm

Expect a good dose of the runs in 2019.

You now have a young GM and a young HC so as of now any of the experts I have listened to are optimistic.

Lookin forward to next season......it will be different I would predict.

jimmytwotimes 2013

Brendan Bendar wrote: »

Expect a good dose of the runs in 2019.

Undercooked poultry.

Don't know much about new HC but Rodger's willingness to be coached very important too.

Foxtrol

It looks like possibly a bit too much of a gamble for the final years of Rodgers’ prime than I’d like (as an outsider who just wants to enjoy him while we can). The one season LaFleur was out on his own his offense was at best mixed. It is interesting to see so many people pointing to how young he is as a positive when I’d see the likes of Shanahan’s/McVay’s/Nagy’s as more of outliers than a rule. Each of them had more OC experience as well before they were given the HC role.

Brendan Bendar

jimmytwotimes 2013 wrote: »

Undercooked poultry.

Don't know much about new HC but Rodger's willingness to be coached very important too.

Indeed ,but Rogers isn’t the team, yes I know his status and all that,and he needs to be listened to, but at the end of the day the HC calls the shots, the GM backs him up, and it goes on from there.

Anything else is fraught.

I’m good with the appointment based on the reaction from the pundits.

Think it’s going to be a fresh new season.

Billy86

I'm more than willing to see how it goes. It is definitely preferable to most of the "old boy merry-go-round" options, and I while his play calling is great I really am not too sure of McDaniels as a head coach, both from the clusterf*ck his time at Denver was, and the fiasco with the Colts last year showing he may not have grown all too much. He is still young but could have a bit of a Lebeau type future ahead of him - utter genius coordinator but not a head coach. Still, he has a good 15+ years to prove me wrong on that at 42 right now.

Also worth mentioning is that McCarthy was an OC before us, and I remember a whole lot of head scratching when we hired him as the 49ers had just finished last in yards and 3rd last in points in his final season (with the Saints finishing bottom half for points and yards in each of his last two seasons before that), and while the wheels really came off over last 2-3 years he was doing a very good job until then on the offense - keeping Dom Capers was enough to undo this alone in my opinion, but the offense was quality and he played a big role in developing Rodgers.

The Titans were bottom 10 for points and yards this season also, but at least we can be sure we didn't just latch on to the shiniest new thing in that sense - it is not a fickle hire as best I can see, just need to hope its the right one.

Things I want to see:
- More running. I was hammering on about him last off season and its clear now that Aaron Jones has legitimate top 10 back in the whole league potential (if he can get up to being a 20 carry a game guy, his biggest weakness is thin hips which bellcow types never have). And then there is Jamaal Williams being a solid backup - nothing special but reliable to get 3.8-4.3ypc and to very consistently get at least 1-2 yards on plays where some backs are liable to lose 3-4, and has a well rounded game. I want to see about 350 carries between those two next season, around 220-250 for Jones (more if he can handle it) and 100-130 for Williams, and us committing to the run early. Enough of this passing 70% of every game and completely and utterly, inexplicably, abandoning a running game that is working perfectly well mid game. If you check it out, McCarthy ran quite during the first drives of each half, then rarely ever did otherwise unless doing a poor job of running the clock out - it became obvious late on that he genuinely did not know how to call run plays. That is the single biggest thing on our entire offense that needs to change.

- Pettine and the defense next year. The initial building year is over, we had some things to be very optimistic about and some things to be very worried about. Over the first half of the season I thought our improvement was huge - but ultimately let down by 1-2 terrible drives or huge plays per game, typically from errors to be expected of such a young backfield - but we fell off an awful lot as the injuries piled up. Our sacks were a massive, massive improvement and don't look now but we finished 13th in 3rd down stops which I am sure everyone felt so much better about, but the run defense fell off quite a lot and as mentioned the lack of depth showed up in some areas. We can all agree our safety and OLB situations are a mess (though Fackrell was a really nice surprise he`s horrific against the run and best suited to obvious passing situations) but we looked improved and generally much more enthusiastic overall. Jake Ryan back at ILB will help substantially against the run (though hopefully Burks comes along for pass coverage as Ryan isn't good at it), and hopefully we can get Wilkerson back on a 2nd 'prove it' deal to bolster us further there (and Lowry while the exact opposite of glamorous/playmaking is a really good guy to come in and do some dirty work). The secondary needs a whole lot of fixing up, but at CB I really think it has more to do with cohesion and experience rather than talent.

- JK Scott is a quality punter. Not the most important thing in the world but he had the best punting season I've seen from a Packer in my 16 years watching, really like his ability to land it in the 10-15 consistently and boom the thing down the field when we're deep in our own territory.

For the draft I want to see a big focus on OLB and safety, especially early, but would also be OK with one of a TE or RG/RT with the late first/early second pick if something great falls to us. Its a real shame we squeezed out those late wins against the 49ers and Jets or we would be top 5... lose the tie with the Vikings and we would be 1st or 2nd overall. Oh well, I guess the Jets game showed we could not even do tanking right this season.

OldMrBrennan83

Scott was terribly inconsistent in the latter half of the season. Good rookie season overall though.

Brendan Bendar

Billy86 wrote: »

I'm more than willing to see how it goes. It is definitely preferable to most of the "old boy merry-go-round" options, and I while his play calling is great I really am not too sure of McDaniels as a head coach, both from the clusterf*ck his time at Denver was, and the fiasco with the Colts last year showing he may not have grown all too much. He is still young but could have a bit of a Lebeau type future ahead of him - utter genius coordinator but not a head coach. Still, he has a good 15+ years to prove me wrong on that at 42 right now.

Also worth mentioning is that McCarthy was an OC before us, and I remember a whole lot of head scratching when we hired him as the 49ers had just finished last in yards and 3rd last in points in his final season (with the Saints finishing bottom half for points and yards in each of his last two seasons before that), and while the wheels really came off over last 2-3 years he was doing a very good job until then on the offense - keeping Dom Capers was enough to undo this alone in my opinion, but the offense was quality and he played a big role in developing Rodgers.

The Titans were bottom 10 for points and yards this season also, but at least we can be sure we didn't just latch on to the shiniest new thing in that sense - it is not a fickle hire as best I can see, just need to hope its the right one.

Things I want to see:
- More running. I was hammering on about him last off season and its clear now that Aaron Jones has legitimate top 10 back in the whole league potential (if he can get up to being a 20 carry a game guy, his biggest weakness is thin hips which bellcow types never have). And then there is Jamaal Williams being a solid backup - nothing special but reliable to get 3.8-4.3ypc and to very consistently get at least 1-2 yards on plays where some backs are liable to lose 3-4, and has a well rounded game. I want to see about 350 carries between those two next season, around 220-250 for Jones (more if he can handle it) and 100-130 for Williams, and us committing to the run early. Enough of this passing 70% of every game and completely and utterly, inexplicably, abandoning a running game that is working perfectly well mid game. If you check it out, McCarthy ran quite during the first drives of each half, then rarely ever did otherwise unless doing a poor job of running the clock out - it became obvious late on that he genuinely did not know how to call run plays. That is the single biggest thing on our entire offense that needs to change.

- Pettine and the defense next year. The initial building year is over, we had some things to be very optimistic about and some things to be very worried about. Over the first half of the season I thought our improvement was huge - but ultimately let down by 1-2 terrible drives or huge plays per game, typically from errors to be expected of such a young backfield - but we fell off an awful lot as the injuries piled up. Our sacks were a massive, massive improvement and don't look now but we finished 13th in 3rd down stops which I am sure everyone felt so much better about, but the run defense fell off quite a lot and as mentioned the lack of depth showed up in some areas. We can all agree our safety and OLB situations are a mess (though Fackrell was a really nice surprise he`s horrific against the run and best suited to obvious passing situations) but we looked improved and generally much more enthusiastic overall. Jake Ryan back at ILB will help substantially against the run (though hopefully Burks comes along for pass coverage as Ryan isn't good at it), and hopefully we can get Wilkerson back on a 2nd 'prove it' deal to bolster us further there (and Lowry while the exact opposite of glamorous/playmaking is a really good guy to come in and do some dirty work). The secondary needs a whole lot of fixing up, but at CB I really think it has more to do with cohesion and experience rather than talent.

- JK Scott is a quality punter. Not the most important thing in the world but he had the best punting season I've seen from a Packer in my 16 years watching, really like his ability to land it in the 10-15 consistently and boom the thing down the field when we're deep in our own territory.

For the draft I want to see a big focus on OLB and safety, especially early, but would also be OK with one of a TE or RG/RT with the late first/early second pick if something great falls to us. Its a real shame we squeezed out those late wins against the 49ers and Jets or we would be top 5... lose the tie with the Vikings and we would be 1st or 2nd overall. Oh well, I guess the Jets game showed we could not even do tanking right this season.

I don’t think Jones is durable enough to carry the load people seem to expect of him .
Too thin too light.

That said excellent player but wouldn’t be the hammer.

Williams is a good guy, but slow and limited.

Good solid RB would be an asset.

Billy86

I don't think we need to look for one before the 5th to be honest, it's a position with a lot of late value and we'd only be looking for someone to fight for the #2 role. We do need to pick up something though, either a cheap FA, late pick or batch of UDFAs to fight it out - I absolutely hated us going into games with just two RBs, it was risky to the point of stupidity.

Well SOMEONE say something!

Is all this silence a reflection of the malaise and listlessness around the team at the moment?

Brendan Bendar

Deleted User wrote: »

Well SOMEONE say something!

Is all this silence a reflection of the malaise and listlessness around the team at the moment?

No, it’s exciting times ahead.... new beginning as it were, younger people in charge, different approaches to stuff.
Good draft pick scenario, unlike most previous seasons, not afraid of free agency,it would appear.

Looks like Jimmy G will be staying, apparently Le Fleur designs the plays for the players best skills, not for ‘situations’.

Yes we may lose some stalwarts, but that’s the game .

Personally I think the WR corps could have a breakout season.

Onwards and upwards Conor.

R e l a x.............gonna be ok👍

Blut2

I'm pretty excited for the season to come. Rodgers is still young enough to play extremely well. The RBs look good. The young defensive players will be a year older/better this year. The draft picks are the best in a number of years. The new management team. Theres a decent bit of cash to splash in free agency (particularly if Matthews and Perry are cut or restructured as seems likely).

Its got lots of potential.

Before the season starts hopefully between the draft and free agents we'll get a good edge rusher, a good safety and a good WR. Then we'll be cooking.

Billy86

Never going to happen, but in a 100% perfect world we would find a way to offload Perry and sign Flowers & Barr... both are about perfect for Pettines system (can do a bit of everything which is key for his confusing OCs and QBs with looks and formations, not knowing who will come at you) and in the case of Barr especially, might be able to be got at a small bit of value due to lower sack numbers. It would also free up the top three picks we have for safety, offensive line, defensive line or TE.

Like I said, too good to be true but moreso than drafting any particular player that is probably my number 1 wish for this offseason!

OldMrBrennan83

Window firmly closed. Rodgers is one thing but the fact that Murphy is resigning Graham, Matthews, etc tells me all I need to know.

Billy86

I think resigning Matthews would be absolutely brilliant - if, IF it is for $4-6mn on a one year deal.

ILB: Martinez is a fantastic there and brings some real intensity which helps get the teams' adrenaline running, but coverage is not really his thing... Ryan alongside him at ILB makes us extremely difficult to run the ball on, particularly between the tackles (we missed him badly at times last year) but is poorer again in coverage... Burks is extremely raw and a very mixed bag last year, he has the brains and body to be a real star but it is hard to tell right now. Having Matthews in that mix would be great, rotating with Ryan and Burks, and able to play on passing downs especially. He can still cover in the short very well and while he doesn't get to the QB like he used to, he does still very much cause havoc, get pressures and is a 'name' player defenders will watch for. I would offload Morrison most likely, and keep CMIII/Martinez/Burks/Ryan (who is a FA but should be very cheap to resign).

OLB: We basically need two starting quality players. Perry still has a bit to offer, but injuries have taken their toll and he always has been extremely one dimensional which is just not going to work with Pettine, and personally I would love to see us try and get anything for him from a team badly in need of a pass rush with a tonne of cap space... even a 7th rounder would do. Fackrell is on the last year of his deal, and while even more one dimensional (he has a speed rush, not-completely-terrible coverage skills, and literally nothing else to his game) he should continue to be a great option on 3rd down or if we have a 20+ point lead forcing the other team to pass throughout - I doubt we keep him beyond this year, but think he can contribute a good 7-11 sacks in limited snaps. Ideally, that speed freak Donnerson is able to develop and take the role over next year. Most likely here we go with a FA and an early draft pick, and in the latter instance Matthews would be great to have there to spell in and rotate, particularly if the

Matthews is long, long past his best but the fact he still can contribute in coverage, against the run, and in getting to the passer means Pettine will be able to use him in multiple ways and positions. He is also by all accounts an absolute sterling 'locker room guy' and a leader of the team on and off the field. By absolutely no means would I pay above $6mn for him, but to have him as the '#3' OLB behind two starters (with Fackrell as the speed specialist) and fighting with Ryan & Burks for snaps beside Martinez at ILB (where he played extremely well a few years back - I've wanted him there ever since). This would also mean he would be playing significantly less snaps which he could benefit from quite a good deal, as did the likes of James Harrison and Jason Taylor on the back ends of their careers.

raze_them_all_

Who would you draft with the two first rounders Billy?? I wouldn't mind a big body te with an edge rusher

Brendan Bendar

raze_them_all_ wrote: »

Who would you draft with the two first rounders Billy?? I wouldn't mind a big body te with an edge rusher

You have one dude.... Jimmy G

OldMrBrennan83

Brendan Bendar wrote: »

You have one dude.... Jimmy G

Did you see him play last year?

raze_them_all_

Brendan Bendar wrote: »

You have one dude.... Jimmy G

Yeah no need to draft for the future when you have a declining old te

Brendan Bendar

OldMrBrennan83 wrote: »

Did you see him play last year?

I did, but he wasn’t used properly.

OldMrBrennan83

Brendan Bendar wrote: »

I did, but he wasn’t used properly.

He's way past it.