Green Bay Packers Thread

Billy86

BoJack Horseman wrote: »

Question to Packer nation.

Is there a preferred radio station for games?

Not sure about games, but I recently stumbled on an EXCELLENT podcast called Packer Transplants, does really detailed breakdown of the last week's and upcoming games and have interviews with players (was supposed to be Hayward this week gone bit apparently he dropped out last minute after the Seattle loss). Genuinely quote funny too especially the grief they gave Hayward for dropping out.

Might show up under Cheesehead TV also, kind of a "parent station" for Packers podcasts, but none of the others stack up to Transplants in my opinion.

BoJack Horseman

So was it a good win or another 'paper over the cracks' job?

As impressive as it was to rally like we did, it shouldnt have got to the stage in the first place.

raze_them_all_

paper over the cracks without a doubt, if they were any use offensively they would f been well out of sight

UnitedIrishman

raze_them_all_ wrote: »

paper over the cracks without a doubt, if they were any use offensively they would f been well out of sight

I'd agree with that. Only for Rodgers and Nelson there weren't many positives to take from the game. Our O-line looked as if it wanted Rodgers murdered at times and our defence was the same as the last couple years bar the second half when we performed much better.

As Billy aluded to in the weekly thread, it was good to see Davante Adams get a few catches at an important time in the game and he's probably leapfrogged Boykin who drop two.

Great to get the win but if we're to go anywhere then the change we all know has to be made will need to happen before we get to the playoffs.

raze_them_all_

Cobb was a plus too tbh, if you are in trouble and jordy is being covered out of it throw to cobb, he'll come out with it.

O line has regressed but all the injuries up there don't help and it appears we have newhuse mk 2 at RT

phatkev

BoJack Horseman wrote: »

So was it a good win or another 'paper over the cracks' job?

As impressive as it was to rally like we did, it shouldnt have got to the stage in the first place.

If the jets had a competent CB1 that could even half cover Nelson the Jets would have won!

Billy86

phatkev wrote: »

If the jets had a competent CB1 that could even half cover Nelson the Jets would have won!

The problem there is that Nelson is one of the trickiest receivers to cover in the league, and probably THE most underrated. 6'3, extremely quick, incredibly agile/'wriggly', a top quality route runner, has as strong an understanding with Rodgers as any QB/WR duo in the league, and he probably the best in the entire league at making freaky sideline catches. I think he has surpassed Donald Driver as the best receiver the Packers have had in the 2000s.

Here are my positives/negatives from the game:

The good:
- Jordy Nelson, at this rate he's set for his biggest year yet.

- Davante Adams. Didn't do anything really in week 1 but got better and better as the game went on here. On a couple of drinks he would have passed off as a fourth year veteran. It showed he is never going to be as explosive or dangerous as Cobb/Nelson, but he could very well become an 80-100 catch a season player, and his ability to bring it down in tight spaces could be huge in the redzone/end one, as advertised when we desired him.

- Linsley. For all the (justified) criticism our line has gotten, he has done OK. not great, but OK. and that's pretty good for a 5th round rookie thrown into a mess of a situation. A few struggles and miscommunications with Rodgers, but a decent 6 to 6.5/10 day. If he keeps improving there isn't much guarantee that Tretter strolls back into the line up.

- Mike Daniels. He has next to nothing around him right now in terms of production on the line, but he made a massive, massive improvement over his outing last week. He broke out among Packer fans last year, but could be set to break out to the league this year, one of our few younger players with actually all pro potential. I actually think he might suit a 4-3 better though as an interior rusher, ala Geno Atkins/Henry Melton.

- 2nd half run defence. We have all been giving Capers and "the usual suspects" piles of abuse so far, and rightfully so, and I do still think that is what is going to cost us over the season/in the playoffs. But at least in the second half we did a good job stopping a strong rushing attack, something we looked like we would just not be capable of at all over the first 6 quarters of this season.

---

The bad:
- Defensive line. We continue to not give Pennell a look despite being our only real 'big body' on the roster, Guión has been woeful, Danone Jones has continued to struggle (a bad rookie year is fine for defensive linemen, but he needs to start impressing this season), and there was a struggle to get much penetration. As is, take Daniels out and we night be in contention for worst in the league here at present. And we don't know how much of the problem is the players and how much is the scheme, though it is probably a mix of both.

- ILB. I liked Brad Jones when he first was drafted and was able to chip in across all LB positions while others took a few plays off, but against Seattle he gave an historically awful performance that looks to have cost him his starting job, having been very poor for us for a long while. Whether Barrington or Lattimore can fill that void is unknown and to be honest I have a lot of doubts; meanwhile Bradford (who looked like he might be someone to bring the necessary aggression there) has struggled so much that he barely made the 53 man roster. And whoever we partner them with is stuck with A hawk beside them, who I have finally lost patience with the last 12 months. He calls the defence only OK, cannot cover to save his life and has never been a blitzing threat. Not only that, but his ability against the run has waned significantly in the last year or two, which used to be his strength. It's such a shame that Des Bishop did his knee in after that breakout season, because we have looked anemic ever since... and one that gets less recognition is Brandon Chilean, who was undersized for the run but an incredibly underrated coverage guy for 3rd and medium/long. Hey, you guys remember when 3rd down stops were a regular thing for us?

- Bakhtiari has been struggling a bit. He hasn't been terrible, but he is having a minor sophomore slump and could use some FB/TE help on a few plays. The thing is we can't give that to him because on the other side, Sherrod has been an epic liability, probably even worse than Allen Barbra in 2009 (who up to now was the worst starting lineman I had seen in 12 the ears watching Green Bay). That not only leaves us crippled on the outside of each line, but it makes it nearly impossible for Rodgers to roll out of the pocket, which is where he is at his most dangerous, because a defensive end is almost always there on the right of the line, and frequently enough on the right that when you factor in he can't see there as easily, it's often not worth him risking. Another problem it gives is that it is allowing teams to crash the inside of our line, which is exactly what has been happening, with Sitton/Lang/Linsley having to somehow block 4 or 5 guys at times... obviously not possible. Lang and Sutton have not been perfect but they are one of the top guard combos in the league... there is only so much you can do when you are out manned and covering for a th round rookie inside of you and struggling 2nd year player (Bakh) or utter liability (Sherrod) outside of you. This is why I am moderately pleased with Linsley, because if he was struggling badly (which would be understandable with the circumstances) we would be beyond screwed.

Even more confusing is that Eric Winston (by far the best tackle, and probably best lineman full stop on the FA market) is still available and we have ignored him. Barclay is out for the year, who knows what Bulaga's situation will be, and we have very little else. He would be pretty cheap (only a bit above the vet minimum) and could surely be taken in a 1 or 2 year deal. As much as I like Ted Thompson's draft and develop mantra, this is one of those exceptional cases to look outside, but he won't and Winston will be gone in the next week or two.

- Sacks. Kind of the same as above, but Rodgers also has to take blame here. He does typically anyway since he makes so many plays happen after they break down (which is great and worth those sacks) but with the situation we are in right now he needs to focus on getting the ball out quick and just taking what is there, which he hasn't been doing enough these last two weeks. The worst examples of this came in the two plays where he had the most time in the pocket in the second half, and gave up two big sacks in three plays. We cannot afford that, especially right now.

- Defensive play calling. It improved in the second half, but Capers gives up way too many easy and predictable plays for the opposition and was as bad as ever at it in the first half. If I recall it was the second half before the Jets even had to out (or very late in the first half?) and that is with Geno Smith at QB. It's not acceptable and even if our offense gers rolling again, he is going to cost us any chance of a deep playoff run once more, that is a guarantee.

- Late drives. Once more we gave up a long drive all too easy late in the game where the Jets would have tried it up had it not been for the timeout debacle. The difference here is that they made a shot to the end one from far down the field so at least we would have had 5 minutes to win it. But if they had played it safer I have no doubts that they could have worked the down to 1 minute or less remaining and taken the game to overtime. The number of times this has happened to us in the last few years is simply insane, and again a reason why Capers and his unit will cost us, even if our offense gets back in full flow.

UnitedIrishman

Well made points Billy.

Just on the offensive line part - I can't understand the constant downgrading of our o-line almost year on year. I mean you have one of the top QB's in the league and you're paying him a tidy sum of money every year, then surely you're next job is to pay the guy who is covering his ass. Bakhtiari was good last season but as you say, is suffering a bit this year and when you look at what the Broncos did with Manning by giving Clady a big contract surely at some stage you have to say enough is enough and either draft reasonably high as the Pats did with Solder or go out and pay someone in free agency.

Agree with you on AJ Hawk he is absolutely desperate as is Datone Jones. And Nick Perry is also such a bust. So we've basically pissed away two first round picks out of our last three (on this DE/OLB hybrid bull) - unless we see significant improvement in the next 14 weeks or so. We rely so much on an aging Peppers and Clay Matthews for pressure.

Billy86

You actually hit on something else I wanted to bring up there, but my post was ling enough already!

Bulahdelah was a first round pick, and to be honest I was really liking him until the injuries set in - he is still good when healthy, but that's not very often, unfortunately. The next year Sherrod was our first rounder, but wasn't seen as being a good a pick as Bulaga (who some had going top 10 but it was a deep year for tackles with Okung, Trent Williams and Anthony Davis going before him)... and we won't know how it would have paid off, because his career/development has been ruined by his horrific leg injury that kept him out around two years.

So the problem hasn't been investment, it had been injuries or how the picks have gone. Perry looks a busy but I also have to wonder how much of that has to do with Capers, and it's far too early to tell in Datone, I reckon he needs this full season to see how he gets I. Jerel Worthy is a second rounder who amounted to nothing as well, and that one has to be on Thompson since the Pats traded for him and dumped him within about a fortnight.

So here is what worries me, and I hope I am wrong but...

Ted Thompson gets credit for being amazing in the draft, and for his first several years that was true. We still know he is brilliant at getting role players and "NFL quality" guys from out of nowhere. His eye for receivers and corner backs is very good too. But...

The game have just seemed sonewhat "off" with much of our drafts since about 2010 per so onwards, right? Not terrible drafts, but missed picks and a lack of aggression/meanstreak in our front seven defensive guys.

Now apparently TT doesn't like those "aggressive" types because they give up too many flags and are too injury prone from their approach to the fame (irony!) but what changed in 2010? We lost John Schneider, who many have credited in playing as big a role in Pete Carroll in the Seahawks rise. Just look at their draft picks since then...

2010: Okung, Earl Thomas, Golden Tate, Kam Chancellor
2011: KJ Wright, Richard Sherman, Byron Maxwell, Doug Baldwin
2012: Bruce Irvin, Bobby Wagner, Russell Wilson, Robert Turbin

As well as several solid role players and free plenty of cheap enough free agents/trades like Marshaw Lynch, Michael Bennett, Brandon Browner, Sydney Rice, Zach Miller, Percy Harvin and Cliff April.

He reportedly played a huge role in getting in Pickett and Woodson as free agents and the Ryan Grant draft we made while here also. It would explain why we pretty much stopped any and all free agents/trades whatsoever right around the time he left.

Now a huge part of our problem defensively is the scheme. It's over complicated nonsense which is especially terrible since we like to draft and play so many younger players; the Seahawks by comparison are known to be so successful because their system is so simple... they just look to do what they do perfectly, and with great success... this is on Capers.

But look at all those players and think how much we could use them. Some went too soon for us to get them like Okung, Thomas and Irvin, but they've been finding top guys down the board and hitting on their top picks quite consistently.

Schneider was at Green Bay from 2002-09. Obviously on the back of a Superbowl we were not replacing TV, but it does make me wonder how much of his success in those first several years were as a result of Schneider.

On top of this, Schneider is very young at 42/43 years old with at least 18-20 years left in the game whereas TV will turn 62 during the playoffs. The only possible silver lining there is if Schneider gets bored or there is some falling out in Seattle by the time Ted retires in the next few years. The reason I say that is because he is from Wisconsin (apparently from Green Bay) and got his first job as a scout for us back in 1993 (so another of Wolf/Holmgrens long list of excellent finds). And because Pete Carroll reportedly has the final say in personnel for the Seahawks, it likely would not qualify as a "lateral move" (which there are rules asgainst, most staff moves have to be classified as a promotion).

Probably wishful thinking though, more than anything. Another one being touted to take TT's spot when he retires is Ron Wolf's son Eliot, now 32,our director of layer personnel and very highly touted.

I still love Ted Thompson, but just how much of a role Schneider aged in those 2005-09 drafts is something that's been on the back of my mind for a while now.

phatkev

Billy86 wrote: »

The problem there is that Nelson is one of the trickiest receivers to cover in the league, and probably THE most underrated. 6'3, extremely quick, incredibly agile/'wriggly', a top quality route runner, has as strong an understanding with Rodgers as any QB/WR duo in the league, and he probably the best in the entire league at making freaky sideline catches. I think he has surpassed Donald Driver as the best receiver the Packers have had in the 2000s.

dont get me wrong I think Nelson is one of the best at his position, but anytime a WR puts up 200+ yards you have to look at the secondary and ask some serious questions

UnitedIrishman

Unfortunately I wasn't following the game pre-TT and McCarthy really bar the odd game so I can't argue all that much but you could be right there when you look at who we drafted in those years. We drafted 4 or 5 of our 11 starters in 2010 from those years. Nick Collins (what a loss he was), Matthews, Bishop, Hawk, Raji were all picked in those years. We got Morgan Burnett the following year, Tramon Williams and Woodson were picked up as was Ryan Pickett. But yeah, those picks on Matthews, Raji and Collins in particular were probably the key picks for our defense winning a Superbowl (along with the Woodson pickup).

It has to be largely the coaching though. I mean you watch the Seahawks, the 49ers, even the Ravens last week against Steelers. The pace at which they hit the line and the ball carrier is ferocious and physical. The 49ers went from giving up 21 points per game (which in itself isn't bad) on average to 14 points per game when they changed from Greg Manusky to Vic Fangio when Harbaugh came in. With the exact same bunch of players like Bowman and Willis et al. Manusky is of course now with the Colts who are giving up a billion points a game.

Some of the stuff you see the Packers do is inexplicable like two guys completely missing tackles in two vs. one situations or on 3rd and 18 an opposition receiver being wide open in the middle of the field 20 yards downfield. Whatever it is, it seems when you play against us the field seems 20 yards wider and when we play a semi-decent defense then it's far far smaller.

It's already past time for a new DC and perhaps it is time for a change of GM.

OldMrBrennan83

This post has been deleted.

raze_them_all_

Patww79 wrote: »

This post has been deleted.

Rumour has it tat the OL has been filling in for the broken turnstiles in the stadium

Billy86

Typical same old story... one side of the ball shows up, the other decides not to. I'm not even moderately excited about what has been a very good last game and aboard from our defence, because the moment our offense gets going, they'll just revert back to the norm. Very, very best case scenario, we will have 2 games with both playing to or near their potential.

Defensively, our secondary did well we were ok against the run, and we had some legitimate pass rush and penetration going on. Like I said though, nothing to be excited about since it will evaporate the moment we start clicking offensively.

Our line play has been terrible, but I am confused about the exact cause. All four established starters are back in the G/T positions and range from borderline all pro calibre (Sitton) to average start (Bakh) but are failing to click. Most likely this is down to Linsley at C struggling to get everyone on the same page and himself on the same page as Rodgers, but he hasn't been a disaster given the position he has been put in.

Perhaps the main issue, very worryingly, has been in our play calling. McCarthy doesn't seem to trust Linsley (and after QB, C is possibly the position your coaching staff needs to have the most trust in, given that he is typically the QB of your oline). Because of this we are playing very conservatively and predictably, which is made worse by our line play. You can play conservative fine, but you need your line to do their bit if you choose to - good example being the 49ers with Alex Smith. This isn't happening.

Because of a mix of both of those issues, McCarthy seems to be relying too heavily on the shotgun. For me this is a formation best used when you have to pass, are struggling against the rush, and there is no point hiding it. What you cannot do with the shotgun is establish the run (possible exception being if you have a guy like Jamaal Charles who is great at making the first guy miss). With a power back combo like Starks and Lacy you need to use a lot of single back and iformation stuff, to give them time to develop a head of steam and run over the first tackler, rather than trying to stutter step or run away from them three yards behind the line of scrimmage. That we don't seem to get that, and how basic and obvious it is, is deeply unsettling. And because it isn't working, nobody is taking our play action stuff we were so ex item about seriously - whether Rodgers or Lacy/Starks have the ball, they are pretty guaranteed to be in the same area, so for defences a rush and a blitz become pretty much the same thing. It makes their job so much easier.

This lack of faith in Linsley is also probably why we are seeing so little of the hurry up stuff we were expecting, and again that is disappointing. I don't even think it is particularly justified.

Boykin needs to be moved down to 4th automatically on the depth chart, it is clear he is "just a guy" who got in decent form last year, and his ceiling in terms of potential is probably about what we have already seen. If he keeps this up, Janis may well have that 4th WR spot taken from him by the run in.

Like I said, I'm not so much worried about Lacy/Starks, but instead just how we are using them. Leveon Bell on the Steelers is a similar enough back to either, and they are using him as we should be these two - smash into the line of scrimmage if nothing develops, but also give them a second to try and push a hole open to run into. With a shotgun formation, the l in be typically days back to form a pocket even on run plays, and the result is not pretty unless you have a shifty runner. We don't apart from Harris, who is decent but should be used as more of a 3rd down type to catch defenses off balance. What we have now in our first two RB s to draw a football analogy, is like having Jan Koller or Miroslav Kove up front, and trying to almost exclusively play quick, one touch, possession based Barcelona type play with them because you don't trust one of your wingers' crossing ability.

Such a shame about Lyerla too, because while Richard Rodgers looks reasonably solid, we also need and explosive TE quite badly in my opinion, and for some reason I just don't see Bostick ever developing into the guy some people think he could be.

Strangely, I'm probably less disappointed today than I was last week when we won. I knew this was coming, we all did, only I expected the Lions to score another 15+ points. I never like betting against my team in any sport, but was imploring friends who follow the NFL and put on a few small bets and accumulators all week to bet on Detroit, but not one of them listened to me for some reason (they were only 2pt favourites).

BoJack Horseman

Unless there is a win against da bears next week, the season could be over before it got going.

Listening to a phone-in show, even Olivia Munn was getting blame!

Bad times.

The Lions loss was depressing. I mean, at other times we could argue that events conspired against us, like last years 40-10 loss with Rodgers out injured. But this seemed to be confirmation that the Lions are just a better team right now.

raze_them_all_

For years we had no defence but our offence covered them, now we have no o-line so we can't even let an elite qb stand still in a pocket for more than half a second.

skippymac6

raze_them_all_ wrote: »

For years we had no defence but our offence covered them, now we have no o-line so we can't even let an elite qb stand still in a pocket for more than half a second.

Is Bulaga back this weekend? That would be a massive help for us.

Edit: Just saw on the net there that he took a full participation in practice yesterday. Linebackers Perry, Jones and more worringly Matthews took limited participation though

Billy86

He was playing against Detroit, but he did struggle and was not 100%, but still anything is better than Derek "hands in pockets" Sherrod. He should get better over the next few weeks, and we need him to.

One thing I can say somewhat in our defence is that we have started the season against probably of the five best defensive lines in the league (along with St. Louis and San Francisco). We still should have done better against them and if we reach the playoffs there is a strong possibility we play two of them (Jets obviously are not getting to the SB) so it doesn't excuse how poorly we did, but we now have an opportunity to get things clicking and absolutely have to take it. Our next three games are Chicago, Minnesota and Miami - if we don't get it going against those three and do better against their defensive lines, we know we are in serious trouble.

It will also be interesting to see what effect Tretower has when he returns. I have not been blown away by Linsley by any stretch, but for a fifth round rookie on a struggling line he has not been bad. But what is killing our offense in no small part is McCarthy's lack of faith in him being able to cope as part of the no huddle offense we were trying out so much in preseason. As a result we are looking poorly prepared and lacking any real identify (for the first time in a LONG time) since we can't protect Rodgers and are looking too impatient to establish the run (which the line again is not helping with).

skippymac6

Billy86 wrote: »

He was playing against Detroit, but he did struggle and was not 100%, but still anything is better than Derek "hands in pockets" Sherrod. He should get better over the next few weeks, and we need him to.

One thing I can say somewhat in our defence is that we have started the season against probably of the five best defensive lines in the league (along with St. Louis and San Francisco). We still should have done better against them and if we reach the playoffs there is a strong possibility we play two of them (Jets obviously are not getting to the SB) so it doesn't excuse how poorly we did, but we now have an opportunity to get things clicking and absolutely have to take it. Our next three games are Chicago, Minnesota and Miami - if we don't get it going against those three and do better against their defensive lines, we know we are in serious trouble.

It will also be interesting to see what effect Tretower has when he returns. I have not been blown away by Linsley by any stretch, but for a fifth round rookie on a struggling line he has not been bad. But what is killing our offense in no small part is McCarthy's lack of faith in him being able to cope as part of the no huddle offense we were trying out so much in preseason. As a result we are looking poorly prepared and lacking any real identify (for the first time in a LONG time) since we can't protect Rodgers and are looking too impatient to establish the run (which the line again is not helping with).

Sorry I meant this week, I thought he picked up a knock playing against the Lions. Haha I enjoyed your description of Sherrod there.

Think you're right about the next few defensive lines we have to face in the next few weeks. We should really be making hay against them. Hopefully Matthews and Peppers are good to go. Peppers has shown some decent improvement the last few weeks which is a positive

UnitedIrishman

Watched the game back there yesterday after a busy weekend. Much better this time around but it makes a massive difference when the opposition has basically no pass rush to speak of with Allen out. So won't get too overexcited about the offensive line just yet although it was great to see Rodgers have time to pick his passes at will. That opening drive was the perfect addition to his 'RELAX' statement midweek.

Our defense did relatively OK too and got a bit of pressure on Cutler. Their first TD though showed how bad our rush defence is though. There seems to be a recurring pattern in our games this year so far - defense starts abysmal, starts to figure out the opposition, finishes stronger. That'll be no good against the bigger sides though who will have far more complicated offenses down the line.

Cobb had a good performance too when we needed him. We were becoming too dependent on Nelson the last few weeks so good to see Cobb coming up big in a big game in the division. Need to follow it up now against the Vikings on Thursday night who rejuvenated themselves a bit by starting Bridgewater.

Billy86

Positives:
- First thing first... JORDY BLOODY NELSON!! I think my man love for this guy is quite obvious, and my amazement at his never going to a pro bowl. This year that changes, and he is on pace for a ridiculous season as a dead cert all pro. Obviously things don't work out automatically like this, but at present he leads the league in receptions AND yards despite how badly our offence struggled for the first few weeks (where he accounted for 50% of all receiving yards). A quarter of the way in, if we extrapolate his yards out for a 16 game season, he would wind up with... 132 catches for 1,836 yards and 12 TDs. Just to put that in perspective, that would be the 2nd most receptions in NFL HISTORY (just 9 behind Marvin Harrison), and the 3rd most yards in history too (only 12 behind Rice in 2nd). Despite Rodgers having possibly the worst three game streak of his career in that time. Just think about that.

- Nothing is wrong with Rodgers, which is a big relief. It's just the guys/system around him. Give him 3-4 se ones in the pocket and he'll put up 30 for us week in, week out. His disallowed TD was the best play by a QB I might have seen so far this decade.

- Better line play, but as UnitedIrishman said above, nothing to get carried away with. Even before this week the Bears had almost no pass rush, and with Allen out it only hurt them more. That said, before this week we played arguably the 3 best defensive lines in the league and Bulaga was out/playing injured so the truth is likely somewhere between this game and the three before it.

- Cobb looks to be back up and running after calling his own play over the first few weeks pathetic, obviously that is a good thing.

- Turnovers. The defence was not as good as the scoreline suggested, but if we can force turnovers with Aaron Rodgers on form, we should win. End of story.

- Sam Shields. Easily our best player in the secondary over the last several years, and had a really good game I thought, as well as a 60 odd yard interception return. He is a lot better than our lack of a pass rush/safety help sometimes makes him look.

- HaHa tackles! Massive play from him to end the first half, and again his coverage was very good. His speed is immense and we expected good coverage (that he will only get better at), and to be honest I don't mind him struggling in tackles as a rookie so long as he shows steady improvement. And he has been doing that to be fair to him, since his week one disaster.

- Mason Crosby. He had an easy FG blocked, but I always feel completely calm when he steps up for a 50+ yarder, he got a fair auld boot on him.

Negatives:
- The defence. Sure the turnovers were huge and we need that, but at the end of the day one came off a deflection and the other off a huge miscommunication between Marshall and Cutler. It's good that we capitalised on those errors, but we didn't really force those errors or make them out of nothing. We did not force a single punt from the Bears all game, only the 2nd time in NFL history that neither team has punted. Cutler typically had a lot of time with a iffy offensive line and Forte ran for possibly the easiest 120+ yards of his career without a huge play. Terrible play calls and bad tackling were AGAIN at the heart of it and both of those go down to the coaching staff, we usually put too much emphasis on the boundary and not enough in the middle, but against Marshall/Jeffery for some reason we decided to play much looser in the boundary. Makes absolutely no sense. Their second TD was emblematic of the issues under Capers... 10 yards out, obvious pass play, and we go zone while leaving literally half of the field completely uncovered.

- Offensive play calling. This might come as a surprise to some, but it a huge issue and playing a team with no pass rush and a decimated-by-injuries secondary only masked it. When McCarthy first came in up until about 2012 we were always using different personnel groupings, formations, etc which made us a nightmare to try and figure out. Not anymore.

Just focus on this for our next game: shotgun formation with 3 wrs. We run it about 80% of the time, and the only changes tend to be Boykins/Adams and R. Rodgers/Quarless. It is insanely predictable and hugely flawed for our system. First, it completely kills our running game. Running from the shotgun requires a shifty guy to make the first defender or two miss and exploit the space behind. That is literally the opposite of Lacy who was at his best last year getting a head of steam up and either smashing through or literally leaping over defenders. This is exactly why he has struggled so much this year - he has barely taken a step and has guys on him. A comparison would be signing Wes Welker and having him sprint 50 yards down the field every play while you try to throw deep bombs to him; it's idiotic.

And there is another issue there... since they know Lacy won't make then miss like a McCoy or J. Charles could, defences can commit to blitzes and rushes with abandon, which also allows then to play simpler (always a good thing) - just chase the ball. So 5 or 6 guys fly at us when our line has been struggling keeping just 3 or 4 at out, get straight through and get pressure on Rodgers literally within a second of him receiving the snap, or get to Lacy before he has taken our second step.

And then we wash, rinse, repeat and do the same all over again. It makes about as much sense as what we have seen from Capers in recent years. If we used more single back/2 TE or I-form sets with Kuhn at FB and one or two TEs early I absolutely guarantee we would see at least a big instant improvement in the running game (while Nelson and Cobb are easily good enough to deal with the extra coverage). That in turn tires down their defence, allows us use more play action, has their coordinators worrying and second guessing about plays to call and who to put on the field, and just puts them completely off balance. If a defence is second guessing itself, Rodgers will tear it apart better than anyone in the league. And all of that would make the no huddle offense far more potent when we decide to use it.

But instead... Nnnaaahhhhh, let's out out 3WRs, a TE and Lacy in the shotgun.

UnitedIrishman

Billy86 wrote: »

And then we wash, rinse, repeat and do the same all over again. It makes about as much sense as what we have seen from Capers in recent years. If we used more single back/2 TE or I-form sets with Kuhn at FB and one or two TEs early I absolutely guarantee we would see at least a big instant improvement in the running game (while Nelson and Cobb are easily good enough to deal with the extra coverage). That in turn tires down their defence, allows us use more play action, has their coordinators worrying and second guessing about plays to call and who to put on the field, and just puts them completely off balance. If a defence is second guessing itself, Rodgers will tear it apart better than anyone in the league. And all of that would make the no huddle offense far more potent when we decide to use it.

You may have hit upon something there too. I can't understand why we don't use Kuhn more. Fair enough, he's not exactly lightning quick but the fact that he can catch and block aswell as run means we should be using him more in the backfield. He's very good in one vs. one situations for yards after contact too. It'd keep a defense honest if you don't know what the FB is going to do. You're right in that we've become very predictable since the Superbowl win and it allows defenses to steal a march on us.

SantryRed

I have never been so disappointed than when Rodgers unbelievable TD was called back That would have been TD of the year.

Billy86

Just stumbled on this... I know the draft is full of whatifs, etc (for example a teams could have drafted Charles Woodton, Champ Bailey, Ed Reed and Troy Polamalu within about 5 years of each other... imagine that secondary!) but it turns out we were 25 SECONDS away from being able to jump in and draft Ray Lewis in 1996. In the end we just missed out and went for John Michel's, who made the all rookie team but was out of the league with injuries within 4 years.

http://www.dailymotion.com/video/x26z009_ray-lewis-was-seconds-away-from-becoming-a-green-bay-packer_sport

That hurts even more than knowing we picked Vonnie Holliday with our 1998 first rounder who was a good solid plater for quite a while, but who was not the person we were heavily linked with (and who Favre was desperate for us to take). That would have been Randy Moss, who went to the Vikings two picks later.

Imagine Favre, one of the strongest armed QBs with arguably the best deep pass the league has ever seen, throwing to the best deep threat WR the league has ever seen, and the best MAN the league has ever seen leading the defence?

I guess on the plus side, at least we are not one of the 22* teams left spending the last several years pulling their hair out over having not picked Aaron Rodgers when they had the chance.

*23 teams picked before us but I would imagine the Saints are perfectly happy having got Brees the next year.

UnitedIrishman

Peppers named defensive player of the week.

To be fair, given it was against a Ponder led Vikings I wouldn't read too much into it. It's nice to know you've a player capable of threatening the QB other than Matthews all the same (honorary mention to Mike Daniels too).

mikemac1

Taylor, 26, was a seventh-round pick in the 2011 draft out of North Carolina. He’s spent the last four years on Green Bay’s active roster, playing in 50 games and catching eight passes for 45 yards and a touchdown.

Batlimore cut their 3rd string tight end to sign Ryan Taylor.

Is he any good? I've read he played special teams for 4 years and John Harbaugh is a former special team coach so values that.

Can he contribute on offense?

Vinnie L

The real question is, do the packers have a greater will to win than their opponents ?

Billy86

Don't expect to see much from Taylor on Offense, 8 catches for 45 yards in 3.5 years for us and let go despite our problems at the position since Finley got injured last year. If I recall he's a set decent run blocker though. Very handy on special teams mind, though typically in spots you wouldn't notice him at obviously as a tight end.

Billy86

Vinnie L wrote: »

The real question is, do the packers have a greater will to win than their opponents ?