Green Bay Packers Thread

Eddie keeping the weight down?

It's very heartening to see him in that shape. It not only suggests he will be fitter...but it also suggests his attitude is spot on, he's taken the advice and changed things around. He's not happy to just clock in and take the money, he hasn't reacted to the criticism in the childish way you sometimes hear about with NFL players, he had taken stock and accepted he had to change.

Brendan Bendar

Deleted User wrote: »

Eddie keeping the weight down?

It's very heartening to see him in that shape. It not only suggests he will be fitter...but it also suggests his attitude is spot on, he's taken the advice and changed things around. He's not happy to just clock in and take the money, he hasn't reacted to the criticism in the childish way you sometimes hear about with NFL players, he had taken stock and accepted he had to change.

With all due respect,just getting the weight down is not enough.

Gotta do it on the field of play, which I hope he does.

raze_them_all_

Brendan Bendar wrote: »

With all due respect,just getting the weight down is not enough.

Gotta do it on the field of play, which I hope he does.

He does get it done on the field, even last year he showed signs of it just wasn fit enough

Brendan Bendar

Brendan Bendar wrote: »

With all due respect,just getting the weight down is not enough.

Gotta do it on the field of play, which I hope he does.

Oh I agree, but we know he has the ability, for me he was the most exciting draft pick in some time and loved the thought of a bell cow after years of being a little underwhelmed by our RBs. He became one of my favourite players almost instantly. But he lost his way a little, and was worried that we had lost a real game changer, so many of them in the NFL just don't seem to knuckle down once they go astray. But at least he has shown he has the enthusiasm to do the right thing, and if his attitude is rewarded by an upturn in performances, it's a huge boost. It was only a couple of months ago he was almost written off and we wondered whether it was time for a change...but I'd love to see Lacy do it himself.

Brendan Bendar

Deleted User wrote: »

Oh I agree, but we know he has the ability, for me he was the most exciting draft pick in some time and loved the thought of a bell cow after years of being a little underwhelmed by our RBs. He became one of my favourite players almost instantly. But he lost his way a little, and was worried that we had lost a real game changer, so many of them in the NFL just don't seem to knuckle down once they go astray. But at least he has shown he has the enthusiasm to do the right thing, and if his attitude is rewarded by an upturn in performances, it's a huge boost. It was only a couple of months ago he was almost written off and we wondered whether it was time for a change...but I'd love to see Lacy do it himself.

I agree, but my point still stands, he has to show next season he can do the business, like he did in the past.

Getting the lumber off was a good start, but that's all it is, a good start.

Like you, I hope Eddie can do the biz.

cosatron

so who had Kenny Clarke... don't be shy.... Serious goggling going on today, he looks like a freak of nature to be honest, 315 pound standing over 6 foot and only 20. I hope it works out. TT seemed pretty bullish about him in the interviews. Its amazing how all the Alabama boys were past over, it must be that the collective team was better than any individual and Jack is to much of a risk for teddy boy.

limerickfc

cosatron wrote: »

so who had Kenny Clarke... don't be shy.... Serious goggling going on today, he looks like a freak of nature to be honest, 315 pound standing over 6 foot and only 20. I hope it works out. TT seemed pretty bullish about him in the interviews. Its amazing how all the Alabama boys were past over, it must be that the collective team was better than any individual and Jack is to much of a risk for teddy boy.

Ya he's a good player but very raw which I suppose is both good & bad, I would have gone Billings myself but I won't complain cause ted always proves us wrong. Hoping for Calhoun or Cravens in the 2nd now

raze_them_all_

Nose Tackle, Replacement lineman for next year and a Linebacker that looks ok on the outside, prob be moved into the inside, We need to focus on offence next year tbh, We will need a WR and probably a TE if cooke doesnt work out

limerickfc

Delighted we got spriggs, don't know much about fackrull, what's everyone's thoughts on him.?

nasty_crash

raze_them_all_ wrote: »

Nose Tackle, Replacement lineman for next year and a Linebacker that looks ok on the outside, prob be moved into the inside, We need to focus on offence next year tbh, We will need a WR and probably a TE if cooke doesnt work out

Wide Reciever next year? really - there is like 10 of them on the roster at the moment

think that we have a solid roster that we only need to supplement in the draft each year

raze_them_all_

nasty_crash wrote: »

Wide Reciever next year? really - there is like 10 of them on the roster at the moment

think that we have a solid roster that we only need to supplement in the draft each year

A good WR. Nelson will be 32 at the end of next season, who will replace him? We know Cobb can't step up and be number 1? Janis and abb aint going to be number 1's. So yes I would like a first round WR

Brendan Bendar

raze_them_all_ wrote: »

A good WR. Nelson will be 32 at the end of next season, who will replace him? We know Cobb can't step up and be number 1? Janis and abb aint going to be number 1's. So yes I would like a first round WR

Agree.

While Packers have plenty of WRs the quality is not stellar

Nelson returning after serious knee inj.

Cobb is a slot rec.

The rest are very unproven.

An experienced lad in FA might be an idea.

nasty_crash

dont think the FA is the way to go to get him cos tt doenst do it - and also you will overpay for what will be on fa - it will be interesting if this draft progresses they way they want then they can splash on a wide reciever in the first next year. A lot spent on defense and the oline so next year could be more offense focused - esp with eddie lacy possibly getting the tag next year

Brendan Bendar

nasty_crash wrote: »

dont think the FA is the way to go to get him cos tt doenst do it - and also you will overpay for what will be on fa - it will be interesting if this draft progresses they way they want then they can splash on a wide reciever in the first next year. A lot spent on defense and the oline so next year could be more offense focused - esp with eddie lacy possibly getting the tag next year

Yes...but...:D...IF a big reliable proven WR was going to be 'the difference' like TE Keith Jackson, Reggie White were back in the day, then he might be tempted:P

Remember when all the talk of Randy Moss coming to the Pack.

This will be a big year for the receiving corps, I see a fairly big clear out if that persists as a problem next season.

nasty_crash

i know that if someone was there tt could be interested but if you look at the caliber of wide reciever hitting free agency - Marvin Jones, Sanu, Wallace, Benjamin, Mathews - these wouldnt be ideal for us and he wouldnt go for them!

Wide recievers - elite or top level wide recievers dont really hit free agency until they have started the decline of their powers

eagle eye

Wallace would be an interesting one. He did very well with Big Ben and then took the big money and hasn't had a decent QB since. He could be pretty awesome playing with Rodgers.

nasty_crash

wouldnt pay him the money he was looking for tho!

raze_them_all_

nasty_crash wrote: »

i know that if someone was there tt could be interested but if you look at the caliber of wide reciever hitting free agency - Marvin Jones, Sanu, Wallace, Benjamin, Mathews - these wouldnt be ideal for us and he wouldnt go for them!

Wide recievers - elite or top level wide recievers dont really hit free agency until they have started the decline of their powers

True, I'd take megatron on the decline though :P

Tbh drafting has always gone well for us, but we'll never get the best of the best as we are too good atm, we need to make moves int he draft to do it

Billy86

We don't need to splash big on a WR in free agency and won't for a number of reasons, not least of all that almost nobody wants to go to GB as an area (let's not forget we only got Woodson because literally nobody else wanted him, we can get the odd value guy or waning veteran like Peppers who wants to win a ring, but that's more or less it). That's one thing that must be great for the likes of the Cowboys, Giants, Bears, etc - they can even get these guys at better prices, because the players know they can make more off the field money in bigger markets (Victor Cruz was a good example when he resigned, if I recall).

As for the draft, let's see how next year goes. We do need a speed option as even if he keeps good, Jordy is beginning to get up in years and is coming back from a major injury. After that, Cobb is as good a #2 as is in the league but is not a #1, Adams needs a major improvement after last year but will never have close to Jordy's speed, and Monty looks like he could be a serious weapon but as more of a trick/joker player. Abbrederis I don't see making the team this year, so I think that gives Davis a season to show a lot of promise and puts Janis in a make-or-break year.

If two of the following happen...
- Jordy comes back as if he were never gone.
- Janis becomes at least a 30-40 catch guy who can stretch the field
- Davis bursts out for around 30 catches while stretching the field

...then I think we put at most a second rounder toward it next year. If one happens, a second rounder or higher is on the cards, and if none happen then I think it's a certainty we go WR in the first two rounds. But I read something about my favourite player that we drafted - Spriggs - that gives me hope.

A huge issue last year was WR speed, and this has been brought up over and over and over. However this was compounded by two things:
1. Eddie Lacy was out of shape all year, and James Starks while one of the best backups around, proved to be just that... a backup.
2. Our offensive line play was brutal for the most part.

Clearly Lacy looks back in shape, so if we can get our 2014 running game back to scratch that gives us a massive advantage - DBs need to play closer, and the box needs to become more crowded. Now, we still have a bunch of guys that won't threaten over the top there, but it would serve to give us more pockets of space (which our WRs are typically good at finding - but not against cover 2 with no deep threat and no time from the line play). Defenses needing to be kept honest is a massively important thing to have, and with a QB like Rodgers who sees things so fast and can get the ball out in a split second it can be all the difference. It's probably in no small part why we went from being such a precise, technical, fine-margins type of offense to looking so hapless last year.

But what I read about Spriggs gives me huge cause for relief - the guy is 6'6 and by many accounts was the third best tackle in the draft, some saying he has the second most upside AND athleticism. Apparently he needs to round out his technique etc a bit and put on a bit more mass, but he's far from raw or a whippet. He's got that long, lean(ish) frame that a lot of the top LTs do, but seems to have the power to go with it. This is huge for a reason - Bulaga is a pretty good prototypical 'big guy' tackle, at 6'5, 315lbs, but he also has short arms (hence why best not to move to LT) and his has been slowly breaking down through his career. After that, everyone is around 6'3-4 and in the 300lb range; Bakh makes up for it somewhat due to being very strong for his size and having a low centre of gravity, but can be gone around reasonably easy even if he is difficult to go through. Sherrod had the ideal size but lacked power, and after the injury that problem became so much worse.

To put this in perspective... ever notice how tiny Clay Matthews often looks on the field? The guy is 6'3, 255lbs and immensely strong for his size! But against a lot of tackles he has to use his speed and agility due to their size. Against our backups however, he's not too far off being the same height and weight, meaning with momentum on his side in a blitz, he could just go over them - guys like Barclay, Tretter and such. Now think about the difference between Clay Matthews and a 3-4 DE in terms of size and power, it's pretty damn big. This is what led to a lot of problems last year where our backup linemen were clean getting rolled over, made worse by the fact we have two tackles whose physical limitations can cause issues against speedy blitzers from outside. Linsley and Bakh having hangovers after very good 2014s didn't help, but they were far from the main problem.

Line up with five linemen against a 3-4 (though the same is also true with 4-3, just in different ways). A tackle gets blown backwards and opens a big gap. Another tackle struggles to the outside (a weakness of both Bakh & Bulaga's). Linsley is not blowing up players like in 2014 (who is going to ever forget his double holding penalty against the Bears where they were both pancakes, one of which was on a phenomenal Rodgers non-TD throw, as in one of the best TDs I have ever seen). Lang & Sitton's make one of the best guard tandems in the league all decade, but they can't cover all those guys. Now you've got the pocket completely collapsed, using only 3 DL and one LB/S/whoever is blitzing from wide. This gives Rodgers almost no time, and it also gives our WRs almost no time to get open (they are good at finding space typically, but in that scenario you want a James Jones jumpball guy, or someone like Jordy who can immediately get separation over the top - people often forget he's a top 5-10 WR in the entire league, and might just be the very best at this outside of Desean Jackson who Jordy is otherwise a clearly better player than). They don't need to look for the RB option because while I love Lacy catching passes, he needs an initial block or two to get his momentum going for the same reason he will never be a good RB out of the shotgun, so they still realistically have 7 guys available. Whether they bring additional pressure on Rodgers or just completely block up the short and medium passing channels is theirs to decide, depending on their own strengths.

Spriggs is huge in this sense, at 6-6 and just over 300 he has a frame that could go upwards of 330 without sacrificing much (if any) athleticism. He has the power to not get blown backwards (not fully this year, but after an offseason in the weight room), and he has the length and reportedly athleticism to be a nightmare to try and beat off the edge. Not only does it give us huge leverage for contract negotiations, but I think Bakh could fit well on the right so it also helps for if Bulaga continues to wear down physically... having a guy lacking length on the right isn't the end of the world anyway, because your QB can see that side in advance, and you can slide a FB or TE over for support if needed without having to worry about the same happening on the other side.





I went on a fair tangent there but TL;DR - Spriggs and Lacy could be as important, if not moreso, to our need (or lack thereof) for a WR early next year than the performance of any of our actual WRs. Also of course, Cook could play a role there too (but I'm treating his production as a bonus rather than an expectation, personally).

Brendan Bendar

Excellent post and I'm not quoting because it's a bit long.

What exactly is your point in about five lines.?

nasty_crash

Didnt realise Ted Thompson was on boards hahaha!

Agree with Billy - Bulaga is the most suspect player on the team and whilst Bakh and Linsley had hangovers - i think both had injuries too - i fully expect them to be better this season - Bulaga i think will only start to get more and more hurt/slow and bull rushed to take him outta position. So the addition of Spriggs makes absolute sense

Were i feel that things break down is - what if the offense goes back to 2014 offense and is lights out - lacy, nelson, cobb - we get more play from TE with Cook there.... what does that do to the draft - when clearly Jordi - being one of my favourite players - could drop of a cliff with age - we know that Cobb is a top WR2 but not a WR1 - Adams has no hands. Do we then continue to concentrate on Defense or Oline in the draft with the earlier picks?

Billy86

nasty_crash wrote: »

Didnt realise Ted Thompson was on boards hahaha!

Agree with Billy - Bulaga is the most suspect player on the team and whilst Bakh and Linsley had hangovers - i think both had injuries too - i fully expect them to be better this season - Bulaga i think will only start to get more and more hurt/slow and bull rushed to take him outta position. So the addition of Spriggs makes absolute sense

Were i feel that things break down is - what if the offense goes back to 2014 offense and is lights out - lacy, nelson, cobb - we get more play from TE with Cook there.... what does that do to the draft - when clearly Jordi - being one of my favourite players - could drop of a cliff with age - we know that Cobb is a top WR2 but not a WR1 - Adams has no hands. Do we then continue to concentrate on Defense or Oline in the draft with the earlier picks?

I'm basing this on nothing but my own "I watch sports" brand of science but I'm not too worried about Jordy... so long as he returns from the injury OK. Not for a little bit at least, he's tall and long and very intelligent as a player (easily one of the very smartest WRs in the entire league), and he also takes long strides in his running style, as opposed to being 'frenetic' like an Eddie Lacy for example - those types of athletes I tend to find keep their legs a little longer. Rio Ferdinand might be another good comparison in that sense.

Added to that, it's why I would be considering this a make-or-break year for Janis and would be keeping a very close eye on Davis' potential (though he's more a return specialist from what I've read). If they both flop but Jordy returns to his usual self, a mid/late round speed guy next year is something I would be happy with, and putting more emphasis on a year later again if said guy doesn't look like cutting it.

I wouldn't be TOO worried about Adams' hands just yet, they looked solid in 2014 and were seen as maybe his biggest strength coming out of college if I recall - he lacks speed to get open deep though, and really, really needs to improve on what he gave us last year. Monty is one I am extremely interested in seeing the development of, but from what I know and have seen he looks like a power/dynamic type of 'joker' player (maybe a little like Aaron Hernandez without the murdering), while as you mention Cobb is a great #2 but not a #1.

Billy86

Brendan Bendar wrote: »

Excellent post and I'm not quoting because it's a bit long.

What exactly is your point in about five lines.?

From what I can remember...

- Spriggs = more athleticism and power for line depth (and starting in future).
- More athleticism and power on the line (starters are OK for it, depth lacks it) = less instantly collapsed pockets on 3-4 man rushes. More time in pocket for Rodgers.
- Our WRs lack deep speed (apart from Jordy and I guess Janis) but are very good at finding pockets of space. More time in the pocket, a legit threat of a running game and Jordy/Janis* able to threaten deep will increase the size of these pockets a lot, and the time they have to find them.
- ???
- Superbowl!!!
- f*** Dom Capers.

*Those two hail Mary's vs. the Cardinals could be a big benefit to us next year, simply on the basis that you know every player he lines up against will be 100% aware that he can get deep and make a 50 yard catch if given the chance. There is no way that any defender would be unaware of those two plays, before facing off against us.

Brendan Bendar

Like I said, Packers receiving corps is on a make or break year.

Lot of ponderable stuff in there .

Some might step up, some might not be able to step up, some might not be as good as they were,some might have a break out year.

For me that's where success or failure will lie for the upcoming season.

Brendan Bendar

Billy86 wrote: »

From what I can remember...

- Spriggs = more athleticism and power for line depth (and starting in future).
- More athleticism and power on the line (starters are OK for it, depth lacks it) = less instantly collapsed pockets on 3-4 man rushes. More time in pocket for Rodgers.
- Our WRs lack deep speed (apart from Jordy and I guess Janis) but are very good at finding pockets of space. More time in the pocket, a legit threat of a running game and Jordy/Janis* able to threaten deep will increase the size of these pockets a lot, and the time they have to find them.
- ???
- Superbowl!!!
- f*** Dom Capers.

*Those two hail Mary's vs. the Cardinals could be a big benefit to us next year, simply on the basis that you know every player he lines up against will be 100% aware that he can get deep and make a 50 yard catch if given the chance. There is no way that any defender would be unaware of those two plays, before facing off against us.

I see Matt Rotheram being used at Center in the recent mini camp

O-Line well provided for for this year as Sitton Lang and Bachktiari are on FA ne t year

Billy86

Brendan Bendar wrote: »

Like I said, Packers receiving corps is on a make or break year.

Lot of ponderable stuff in there .

Some might step up, some might not be able to step up, some might not be as good as they were,some might have a break out year.

For me that's where success or failure will lie for the upcoming season.

Do agree. Janis will never be Jordy, but he could be good for 40-50 catches at a 15+ yard avg and thus a very good speed threat. Or he could be out of the league in 12 months.

Davis has the speed to be the guy, but he's apparently not a great WR. Rodgers could get it out of him, but he might just not have it in him.

Abbrederis is already gone, I feel.

Monty we ha e only seen a little of, but I have a tonne of faith him him. Still, wouldn't filly classify him as a WR, and more s multi position hybrid.

Adams looked like he could be a bit like Donald Driver in terms of smarts a year ago, but looked like a bum last season. He's a major question mark.

Jordy is even a question mark with the knee.

And then there's Cook, again a complete unknown jn terms of how he will do in GB.

The only guys who are not question marks are Cobb and DickRod, but how they do is completely circumstantial on how others do as one is possibly the best #2 WR in the league but just not a #1,and despite his limitations I think DickRod has the makings of a very, very good "Jack of all trades" type of #2 TE. But the fact that they are reliant on others around them... Also makes then question marks.

Brendan Bendar

Billy86 wrote: »

Do agree. Janis will never be Jordy, but he could be good for 40-50 catches at a 15+ yard avg and thus a very good speed threat. Or he could be out of the league in 12 months.

Davis has the speed to be the guy, but he's apparently not a great WR. Rodgers could get it out of him, but he might just not have it in him.

Abbrederis is already gone, I feel.

Monty we ha e only seen a little of, but I have a tonne of faith him him. Still, wouldn't filly classify him as a WR, and more s multi position hybrid.

Adams looked like he could be a bit like Donald Driver in terms of smarts a year ago, but looked like a bum last season. He's a major question mark.

Jordy is even a question mark with the knee.

And then there's Cook, again a complete unknown jn terms of how he will do in GB.

The only guys who are not question marks are Cobb and DickRod, but how they do is completely circumstantial on how others do as one is possibly the best #2 WR in the league but just not a #1,and despite his limitations I think DickRod has the makings of a very, very good "Jack of all trades" type of #2 TE. But the fact that they are reliant on others around them... Also makes then question marks.

Yes broadly agree, RR is good end zone target, but too slow and ponderous for yards gained downfield, hopefully that's where Cook can advance the team.

Offence needs a big step up from last season where they were one dimensional a and impotent.

D needs to get to the passer or at least provide the threat better, as any decent QB will skewer you if given time to throw.


Will be a very interesting season.

baby and crumble

No more "KUUUUUUUUUHHHHNNNNNN".

Brendan Bendar

baby and crumble wrote: »

No more "KUUUUUUUUUHHHHNNNNNN".

Not quite confirmed yet, but looks like it.

#30 was a good one.

Thanks John

nasty_crash

With the traing camp starting up the end of next week and our first preseason game on the 7th of August - we dont have too long to wait to see how Packers will look for the season....

Any predictions on how the season goes?

For me considering that Jordi was injured, Lacy was out of shape - and rewatching the playoff game against the Cards we were only a great play by Larry Fitz away from making the NFC Championship.... if those two players come back fit - i think we take back the Division and push for the Super Bowl - not taking anything for granted as Seahawks, Cards, Panthers & Vikings will all be pushing hard to get there too