SSD: Help, please

Gumbi

Thinking of buying this SSD: http://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/B003NE5JCE/ref=ox_sc_act_title_1?ie=UTF8&m=A3P5ROKL5A1OLE

It looks like good value to me. My question is, as I'm not au fait with "that which seperates a good SSD from a bad one", is this a decent SSD? I'm hoping to transfer over my copy of Windows 7 to it, some programs, and a game or 2. I think I know how to transfer over the OS (backup a copy of it on an external HDD, put Windows 7 disk in, that is, if I can find it! , and boot off that external copy, then install it).

What about reinstalling games on the SSD? As in, ones that I've downloaded (Starcraft 2, for example).

Thanks in advance

Or should I get this: http://www.amazon.co.uk/Kingston-128GB-SATA2-2-5inch-Drive/dp/B004BNWIFM/ref=sr_1_3?ie=UTF8&qid=1312668350&sr=8-3

I have the Vertex 2 and love it. Some people have had major issues with the Vertex 3 but the 2 doesn't seem to have the same problems.

While you can image the OS from the hard disk using Norton Ghost, Acronis or similar, I'd recommend a clean install to get the best out of it.

Leman

Gumbi wrote: »

Thinking of buying this SSD: http://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/B003NE5JCE/ref=ox_sc_act_title_1?ie=UTF8&m=A3P5ROKL5A1OLE

It looks like good value to me. My question is, as I'm not au fait with "that which seperates a good SSD from a bad one", is this a decent SSD? I'm hoping to transfer over my copy of Windows 7 to it, some programs, and a game or 2. I think I know how to transfer over the OS (backup a copy of it on an external HDD, put Windows 7 disk in, that is, if I can find it! , and boot off that external copy, then install it).

What about reinstalling games on the SSD? As in, ones that I've downloaded (Starcraft 2, for example).

Thanks in advance

Yes, you would be better off reinstalling games and Windows if possible, you'll get better performance from it, seriously.

OCZ SSD have a PHENOMENAL failure rate. Stay as far away from them as possible. Also, that drive is SATA2, which means if you ever get a SATA 3 board in the future, it will be slower, while the SATA 3 SSDs are comptable with Sata 2 ports just fine (I am running a SATA3 SSD off a SATA2 port right now.)

I would suggest the Crucial M4 . I have it and it is a fantastic bit of kit. Yes, the writes are a little slower than the OCZ ones, but that is fine, because the controller on them doesn't explode after 3 hours of use like the OCZ ones do. Most of what an SSD will do is reads after you install everything anyway, so it's a moot issue. It's also future proof as it is SATA 3.

deconduo

Better drive for only a small bit more:
http://www.amazon.co.uk/Crucial-CT064M4Solid-State-Drive2-Solid/dp/B004W2JKWG/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1312668692&sr=8-1

Leman

^^ Or buy that one from Amazon if it's cheaper. Just remember you'll need to get a Sata Cable and (if you want/need) a 2.5>3.5 bay adaptor, since it doesn't come with either. Both can be picked up cheap as chips from MemoryC.

Arciphel

Intel or Crucial.

deconduo

Leman wrote: »

^^ Or buy that one from Amazon if it's cheaper. Just remember you'll need to get a Sata Cable and (if you want/need) a 2.5>3.5 bay adaptor, since it doesn't come with either. Both can be picked up cheap as chips from MemoryC.

Or just leave the drive hanging instead of using an adaptor if you're lazy like me :pac:

Gumbi

Thanks. I may get a 128GB one, like this? http://www.amazon.co.uk/Kingston-128GB-SATA2-2-5inch-Drive/dp/B004BNWIFM/ref=sr_1_3?ie=UTF8&qid=1312668350&sr=8-3

That one on Komplett looks good. Clean install looks like the way to go, so. I guess I'll have to redownload SC or something.

Gumbi

Thanks. I may get a 128GB one, like this? http://www.amazon.co.uk/Kingston-128GB-SATA2-2-5inch-Drive/dp/B004BNWIFM/ref=sr_1_3?ie=UTF8&qid=1312668350&sr=8-3

That one on Komplett looks good. Clean install looks like the way to go, so. I guess I'll have to redownload SC or something.

Gumbi

Arciphel wrote: »

Intel or Crucial.

As in, avoid Kingston? Any suggestions for a 120/128GB SSD? I think the extra room is worth is if the OS is going to eat up over 20GB.

Thanks again

And what's the story with cables? Will the typical HDD SATA cable not do? (I'll still be using my 500GB HDD, I have a broken one which I'm throwing out, and therefore a spare cable).

Leman

Gumbi wrote: »

As in, avoid Kingston? Any suggestions for a 120/128GB SSD? I think the extra room is worth is if the OS is going to eat up over 20GB.

Thanks again

Yeah, a 128GB Crucial M4! :pac:

To be honest, 64GB is plenty. I run both Win 7 and Linux of mine. What you should do is buy a 64GB SSD, and a 1TB or 2TB HDD to use for storage. Install the OS and any critical applications you want on the SSD, install everything and store Music and Vids on the HDD.

And what's the story with cables? Will the typical HDD SATA cable not do? (I'll still be using my 500GB HDD, I have a broken one which I'm throwing out, and therefore a spare cable).

Any sata cable will do. If you have a spare one, use that. :P

the untitled user

Leman wrote: »

Any sata cable will do. If you have a spare one, use that. :P

This is not absolute. Many users of the more tempermental new sandforce SSD controllers have reported changing SATA cables as fixing some of the dropping and hanging issues. Something to keep in mind anyway in the unlikely event that you ever do run into issues.

Oh, and if you had the OS on the mechanical drive, it can be worthwhile doing a secure erase on it too. Sometimes the MBR doesn't get copied to the SSDs and problems can arise as a result.

vibe666

the untitled user wrote: »

This is not absolute. Many users of the more tempermental new sandforce SSD controllers have reported changing SATA cables as fixing some of the dropping and hanging issues. Something to keep in mind anyway in the unlikely event that you ever do run into issues.

i just used any old sata cables that i had laying around that i've had for year and wasn't getting the performance or reliability out of my sandforce based SSD's, but swapping to some new semi-fancy sata3 cables seems to have improved things significantly, even with my sata2 controller.

here's the before and after of a pair of (sata3) OCZ Agility 3's in RAID0 on a sata2 controller:

Gumbi

So investing in an SATA3 cable is worth it? I'm a bit confused

I'll do a clean install of Windows on the SSD. If I do that, and then I connect my other HDD, how will the comp know to boot from the OS on the SSD drive? I assume I'll have to wipe the OS from my current HDD. I'm not sure exactly how to do this, though. Any help?

I'm thinking of going for the Crucial M4 64GB, as I'll only have a couple of programmes, a game or two, and Windows 7 on it.

Thanks again.

the untitled user

Gumbi wrote: »

So investing in an SATA3 cable is worth it? I'm a bit confused

Despite seeing it mentioned by manufacturers a lot I was skeptical about it at first. But doing some reading up on it it seems that because of the higher speeds SATA 3 has effectively stricter operating tolerances that older cables tested only on SATA 1 or 2 may not necessarily comply with:

sata-io.org wrote:

The primary challenge designers face when moving from 3 to 6Gb/s is that losses in signal amplitude over boards and cables increase as data rates rise. Higher frequency signals have increased sensitivity to attenuation and jitter. When attenuation and jitter become too pronounced, signal quality degrades and throughput drops significantly because of an increasing number of resends. Attenuation is also affected by cable length.

sata-io.org wrote:

In the transition to SATA 6Gb/s, it will be important to use high quality cabling. Problems may be related to the use of cables made from marginal materials that perform at the edges of SATA 3Gb/s tolerances, which could become a failure point at the faster 6Gb/s signal rates. SATA-IO therefore recommends that only high quality cables and connectors be utilized for SATA 6Gb/s.

Vibe, seeing as there's no such thing as a SATA 3 cable, what ones did you upgrade to? The speeds I'm seeing on my Sandforce (on SATA II) are more in line with your before pic :pac:

Gumbi

This is confusing. Is it possible for someone to link me to a good cable to get? I think I'm set on the Crucial 64GB by now.

Leman

Gumbi wrote: »

This is confusing. Is it possible for someone to link me to a good cable to get? I think I'm set on the Crucial 64GB by now.

Orange

Red

The colours don't mean anything.

2.5>3.5 Adaptor (I have this one, works perfectly)

Gumbi

Leman wrote: »

Orange

Red

The colours don't mean anything.

2.5>3.5 Adaptor (I have this one, works perfectly)

Thanks! Any idea on how long Komplett/MemoryC takes to deliver? I'd like to order so that it coincides with me being in Limerick next Tuesday/Wednesday.

vibe666

my problem was that i have no idea what spec my cables were made for, some of them could well have been sata1, so i decided to find something better.

being a skinflint, i headed over to ebay and picked up a couple of these.

http://cgi.ebay.ie/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=330580153840&ssPageName=STRK:MEWNX:IT#ht_2032wt_905

obviously they're claiming to be rated for sata3, but who really knows and since i only have sata2 i can't really confirm or deny, except to say they do definitely work better than my previous cables, which was my main reason for buying them and that they were very reasonably priced).

according to the specs: http://www.serialata.org/documents/SATA-6-Gbs-The-Path-from-3gbs-to-6gbs.pdf

The primary challenge designers face when moving from 3 to 6Gb/s is that losses in signal amplitude over boards and cables increase as data rates rise. Higher frequency signals have increased sensitivity to attenuation and jitter. When attenuation and jitter become too pronounced, signal quality degrades and throughput drops significantly because of an increasing number of resends. Attenuation is also affected by cable length.


The key factor driving the SATA Revision 3.0 specification is backward compatibility. While there are advanced technologies available for managing attenuation and jitter, such modifications to a specification can require nontrivial redesign across the development and supply chain – ASICs, PHYs, cabling, connectors, drivers, and applications. By allowing SATA 6Gb/s systems the ability to utilize the same connectors and cables as SATA 3Gb/s systems, most of the modifications required to achieve 6Gb/s are confined to the PHY layer. Except for doubling the data rate, the PHY is no more complex than that defined by the SATA Revision 2.6 specification. Changes to the protocol itself are minor, and the physical connectors and cables remain unchanged.

By avoiding the introduction of training or advanced signal quality technology, SATA 6Gb/s requires no heroics, so to speak, to implement, enabling designers at all levels to leverage most of their existing IP. This approach accelerates timetomarket because designers do not need to completely redesign their systems.

which seems to indicate that there could well be differences in cable quality and tolerances so it would seem like a good investment if you're not getting the speeds you were expecting.

Gumbi

Right, so it arrived yesterday , but as I wasn't here, I have to collect at the PO tomorrow . Just a question about what I should be doing software-wise. I don't have an external HDD on hand (I can prob borrow one if I need to, though), but I'd like to make sure what I think I should do is right.

Current setup: Typical 500GB HDD with Win7 on it

Desired setup: Win7 on SSD, then intend to transfer/install certain things on the SSD manually, using HDD as storage

Method: (w/o external HDD) will this work???:

-disconnect current HDD and connect SSD, boot off Win7 disk and install it on the SSD (should I format it first or something???)

-Then wipe Win7 from the HDD (how exactly do I do this? Will all my files still be on it? Music, games etc.? Will it just wipe my OS?) Do I need an external HDD to backup my files while I wipe the HDD of Win7?

-The boot normally from SSD and add to it from storage drive as I please?? I know this can't be right...

I appreciate all the help you've given me so far. Thanks a lot.

vibe666

you can leave the current copy of win7 on the old HDD and just install the new SSD alongside it and install win7 on it, that way if anything ever goes wrong with the new copy of Win7 on the SSD, you can still boot to the old copy on the other HDD.

it'll also make it easier to copy stuff over too.

if windows setup detects the other copy of windows it gives you the option to upgrade or fresh install, so you just choose fresh install (it might say clean install, or something similar, can't remember off the top of my head, but it's the one that isn't the upgrade option) and it will format the SSD for you (obviously, you'll see it's the SSD by the disk size compared to the other one, so just tell it to use the whole disk. also, if you're formatting the SSD, make sure (triple sure) that you're formatting the right disk (by total size or name) before you proceed.

then just follow the install steps and you're done.

windows will make the newest installed copy of itself the default boot option, usually with a boot delay of 30 seconds i think so you can choose the other copy if you want to. you can change this by editing the boot.ini file at a later time if you want to.

good luck.

Tea_Bag

just to follow on from vibes post.

regardless of what you plan to do w/r/t win7 on the old HDD, make sure when installing win7 on the new SSD to have the HDD disconnected from the motherboard. not only will it save confusion in the windows install on where you want to install to, but Windows does this annoying thing of moving a system partition ~100mb to the HDD if installing onto an SSD while a HDD is detected. you want this to remain on the SSD and the only way to ensure this is to have all HDDs disconnected.

Gumbi

vibe666 wrote: »

you can leave the current copy of win7 on the old HDD and just install the new SSD alongside it and install win7 on it, that way if anything ever goes wrong with the new copy of Win7 on the SSD, you can still boot to the old copy on the other HDD.

it'll also make it easier to copy stuff over too.

if windows setup detects the other copy of windows it gives you the option to upgrade or fresh install, so you just choose fresh install (it might say clean install, or something similar, can't remember off the top of my head, but it's the one that isn't the upgrade option) and it will format the SSD for you (obviously, you'll see it's the SSD by the disk size compared to the other one, so just tell it to use the whole disk. also, if you're formatting the SSD, make sure (triple sure) that you're formatting the right disk (by total size or name) before you proceed.

then just follow the install steps and you're done.

windows will make the newest installed copy of itself the default boot option, usually with a boot delay of 30 seconds i think so you can choose the other copy if you want to. you can change this by editing the boot.ini file at a later time if you want to.

good luck.

Phew, that's what I did (didn't see this post before I started) I didn't format the SSD though, is this a big deal?

My setup now is my SSD and HDD, both with Win7 on them, but it boots off the SSD as per normal. When I try to run a game off my HDD, though, an error pops up when I click the executable I'm thinking reinstalls, maybe?

00sully

Tea_Bag wrote: »

just to follow on from vibes post.

regardless of what you plan to do w/r/t win7 on the old HDD, make sure when installing win7 on the new SSD to have the HDD disconnected from the motherboard. not only will it save confusion in the windows install on where you want to install to, but Windows does this annoying thing of moving a system partition ~100mb to the HDD if installing onto an SSD while a HDD is detected. you want this to remain on the SSD and the only way to ensure this is to have all HDDs disconnected.

wish I had done this took me till now to get the MCB on the SSD with some tinkering - was wondering what the hell had happened when I took out my old HD and there was no boot option

if you didn't do as Tea_Bag proposed above, you can with a little effort move the boot controller to the ssd with only minor hassle (I'll save you lots of searching!!)

in other news, these SSD's are BLAAAAZING :eek:

vibe666

00sully wrote: »

wish I had done this took me till now to get the MCB on the SSD with some tinkering - was wondering what the hell had happened when I took out my old HD and there was no boot option

i haven't actually tested this in win7, but it *should* work to get windows up and running again if you've removed another other drive.

http://tech.icrontic.com/articles/repair_windows_xp/

if you get stuck and can't find it, just google "repair windows in 8 commands" and it's the first few results.

very handy if you ever get a borked startup on a windows machine.