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London and UK riots (started in Tottenham 10:30PM, 6th Aug)

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  • Closed Accounts Posts: 5,650 ✭✭✭sensibleken


    wild_cat wrote: »
    And you are 100% sure of this?

    There's quite a few professionals that have been charged in the past few days also. Like one was a school teacher (like WTF?)

    this is very true. there have also been graphic designers, college graduates and a hell of a lot of other types.

    Kinda proves greed untempered is not just the preserve of working class hooligans. The same principle applied with MPs and TDs expenses. "sure everyone was at it"


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 12,455 ✭✭✭✭Monty Burnz


    Bambi wrote: »
    And yet you don't see lord Philpington-Potterlsey and his chums rioting, even though they were given everything without earning it, most perturbing :confused:
    You are familiar with the Bullingdon Club etc., I presume?
    A number of episodes over many decades have become anecdotal evidence of the Club's behaviour. Famously, on 12 May 1894[11][12] and again on 20 February 1927,[13] after dinner, Bullingdon members smashed almost all the glass of the lights and 468 windows in Peckwater Quad of Christ Church, along with the blinds and doors of the building. As a result, the Club was banned from meeting within 15 miles of Oxford.[2]

    While still Prince of Wales, Edward VIII had a certain amount of difficulty in getting his parents' permission to join the Bullingdon on account of the Club's reputation. He eventually obtained it only on the understanding that he never join in what was then known as a "Bullingdon blind", a euphemistic phrase for an evening of drink and song. On hearing of his eventual attendance at one such evening, Queen Mary sent him a telegram requesting that he remove his name from the Club.[9][14]

    Andrew Gimson, biographer of Boris Johnson, reported about the club in the 1980s: "I don't think an evening would have ended without a restaurant being trashed and being paid for in full, very often in cash. [...] A night in the cells would be regarded as being par for a Buller man and so would debagging anyone who really attracted the irritation of the Buller men."[15]

    Dinners in recent years, being relatively low key, have not attracted press attention, though in 2005, following damage to a 15th century pub in Oxfordshire during a dinner, four members of the party were arrested; the incident was widely reported.[16] A further dinner was reported in 2010 after damage to a country house. [17] [18]

    In the last few years the Bullingdon has been mentioned in the debates of the House of Commons in order to draw attention to excessive behaviour across the British class spectrum,[19] and to embarrass those increasingly prominent MPs who are former members of the Bullingdon. These most notably include David Cameron (UK Prime Minister), George Osborne (UK Chancellor of the Exchequer) and Boris Johnson (Mayor of London).[20][21] Hansard records eight references to the Bullingdon between 2001 and 2008.[22]


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 4,678 ✭✭✭I Heart Internet


    wild_cat wrote: »
    I'm not bothered really. Your not going to agree with me anyway and I don't want to waste my time.

    I might though. I really, really might. I very rarely judge the substance of people's opinions based on who they are or what newspaper they write for. Perhaps I made a mistake in putting on my orignial post who had written it.


  • Registered Users Posts: 4,041 ✭✭✭who the fug


    wild_cat wrote: »
    Google stop and search London.


    and for why google

    Black on Black murders london


  • Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 9,689 Mod ✭✭✭✭stevenmu


    wild_cat wrote: »
    I don't think anyone from the "PC liberal brigade" is condoing or apologising for the actions of these people. No one wants to see innocent people burned out, robbed and small businesses looted at a bad economic time.

    We're merely pointing out that this is what happens when you treat people like they are dregs............

    But pointing that out is condoning and apologising for these actions. It's taking the blame away from the individuals who are carrying out the actions and trying to shift it to the 'rich' or to society as a whole. In effect it's saying that the actions are justified.


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  • Registered Users Posts: 51,921 ✭✭✭✭tayto lover


    wild_cat wrote: »
    I don't think anyone from the "PC liberal brigade" is condoing or apologising for the actions of these people. No one wants to see innocent people burned out, robbed and small businesses looted at a bad economic time.

    We're merely pointing out that this is what happens when you treat people like they are dregs............

    Like they can now use water cannons on the mainland.... They might not use them on these fellows but might in the future against actual peaceful protesters. As they only seem to beat the working class, middle class and students over there. Perhaps this is down to the fact that these people are not stopped and searched on a daily basis unlike the young lads in question here.

    Aw God loved them the poor under-privileged wee things. They must be very tired after their nights work out looting and burning.
    They wouldn't work on batteries. There is NO work ethic in most of those communities and they take all they get for nothing. They have no interest in work or courses. None at all.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 12,455 ✭✭✭✭Monty Burnz


    wild_cat wrote: »
    Google stop and search London.
    Can you suggest a better way to stop scumbags in London carrying knives and guns and shooting and stabbing each other?

    I'm sure the police would be very keen to talk to you!


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 2,577 ✭✭✭Android 666


    stevenmu wrote: »
    But pointing that out is condoning and apologising for these actions. It's taking the blame away from the individuals who are carrying out the actions and trying to shift it to the 'rich' or to society as a whole. In effect it's saying that the actions are justified.

    No, it isn't. No one could be anything but be appalled by the actions of the looters but to say they are simply scumbags that need to be shot is too simplistic. Looking for the cause of the behaviour is not looking for an excuse...


  • Registered Users Posts: 2,567 ✭✭✭mloc


    Bambi wrote: »
    And yet you don't see lord Philpington-Potterlsey and his chums rioting, even though they were given everything without earning it, most perturbing :confused:

    That is because they have taken those opportunities they were given and used them, either through educating themselves or investing and using their wealth to increase it further.

    Rarely do they just blow the lot and wait for more.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 1,291 ✭✭✭wild_cat


    stevenmu wrote: »
    But pointing that out is condoning and apologising for these actions. It's taking the blame away from the individuals who are carrying out the actions and trying to shift it to the 'rich' or to society as a whole. In effect it's saying that the actions are justified.

    If you want to look at it that way then the poster who suggested that its because they get everything for free is also condoning and apologising. Pointing out the reasoning behind something in your point of view is then condoning and apologising.


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  • Registered Users Posts: 7,457 ✭✭✭Blisterman


    OPENROAD wrote: »
    http://www.thisislondon.co.uk/standard/article-23977178-londoners-unite-to-reclaim-their-ransacked-streets.do



    Police today praised Londoners' "extreme bravery" as extraordinary acts of kindness and courage in the face of the mobs were revealed.

    ....

    It's good to see the other side of the story, and if any good comes out of this, it'll be a renewed sense of community as the once silent hardworking majority come together to reject the people who do these things. Certainly I've already seen it.

    And to those who saw immigration is to blame, watch the videos. The rioters almost without fail have strong english accents. On the other hand, the people I saw cleaning up Camberwell yesterday were of all sorts of nationalities.


  • Site Banned Posts: 2,037 ✭✭✭paddyandy


    Always simmering on the back burner the media keeps telling people "you're nobody without this car/girl/home/yacht/jet/fame/mobile/ and now it's boiling over.Did anyone predict this????Probably but kept quiet.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 1,291 ✭✭✭wild_cat


    Can you suggest a better way to stop scumbags in London carrying knives and guns and shooting and stabbing each other?

    I'm sure the police would be very keen to talk to you!

    Maybe ask them straight out why they do and then listen???

    Perhaps decriminalise drugs to stop truff wars happening etc. Take the drugs out of the hands of dealers....

    Marilyn Manson said the same thing after Colombine - He would just have asked and then listened because no one seemed to have done that. What they are doing currently obviously isn't working. Further increasing these measures is surely going have an even more detrimental effect.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 11,909 ✭✭✭✭Wertz


    The thing is, these people are still in a minority. If they make things intolerable for the majority that pays for their homes, their clothes, their food, their drugs, and their 'education', they may well be letting a genie out of the bottle themselves. If the patronising approach of handing them everything and expecting nothing from the fails - and it looks like it has - then the gravy train may stop. And if its violence they want, then violence they may well get.

    Of course, but how do you undo decades of dependence? Suddenly withdraw all benefits and social housing? Mass boot camps with armed guards? No matter how you poke and prod at the problem, you simply inflame it further. Most of the people who choose to riot loot and burn are unemployable, even if you could convince them to take up work...if they'll steal to furninsh their collection of luxury goods what will they do for basics like food and shelter?
    Short of shoot on sight martial law type affair (which may catch innoncent people in a crossfire or whatever) I don't see how this gets tackled....maybe over the course of the three generations it's taken to develop this particular breed of homo sapiens, but not over the course of a government term in the midst of a world of budgetary austerity...


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,572 ✭✭✭DominoDub


    Dont think I have seen this posted but Totaly Bizarre & Random


    10.06am: My colleague Juliette Garside emails over this bizarre tale of an unlucky looter in south London:

    When the security shutters came down at the 3 mobile phone shop in Streatham while it was under attack on Sunday night, one rioter remained trapped inside. n Police re-opened the shutters to find a looter – on a mobility scooter. A 3 employee, who declined to be named, said the individual had been left behind, unable to keep up when the mob fled the store.


  • Registered Users Posts: 44,080 ✭✭✭✭Micky Dolenz


    Cock fart banned


  • Registered Users Posts: 5,420 ✭✭✭Lollipops23


    paddyandy wrote: »
    Always simmering on the back burner the media keeps telling people "you're nobody without this car/girl/home/yacht/jet/fame/mobile/ and now it's boiling over.Did anyone predict this????Probably but kept quiet.

    Bóllox if ever i heard it. people have been banging on about "pop culture" and "materialism" for half a century, if not longer. Stop taking the blame away from the people who carried this out- at least give then the credit of being complete scumbags who think for themselves.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 1,291 ✭✭✭wild_cat


    Aw God loved them the poor under-privileged wee things. They must be very tired after their nights work out looting and burning.
    They wouldn't work on batteries. There is NO work ethic in most of those communities and they take all they get for nothing. They have no interest in work or courses. None at all.

    Read the thread a page back there before you start ranting.


    A good few professionals have been charged in the last few days as well. Well not unless they hand out degrees for primary teaching or graphic design....


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,169 ✭✭✭denhaagenite


    wild_cat wrote: »
    Maybe ask them straight out why they do and then listen???

    Perhaps decriminalise drugs to stop truff wars happening etc. Take the drugs out of the hands of dealers....

    Marilyn Manson said the same thing after Colombine - He would just have asked and then listened because no one seemed to have done that. What they are doing currently obviously isn't working. Further increasing these measures is surely going have an even more detrimental effect.

    Are you for real?? There's a big enough problem with alcohol without having freely available coke, e, acid or whatever else you're suggesting.

    The Columbine killers didn't run around having riots and looting on a regular basis, so why would anyone have asked them anything? /EDIT Just read that they were indeed arrested and to escape charges both underwent psychiatric treatment and anger management classes, where they apparently made progress- it looks like they were listened to but had an intention to carry this atrocity out.

    The parents of the children running around England atm are as bad as if not worse than them, this is the point. It doesn't occur to them to raise their children, as they were children when they had them and never learned any better themselves.

    Watching "Geordie Finishing school for girls" last night on BBC 3 and I thought it was ridiculous, some scummers from Newcastle saying "when I was 16 I had the head of a 25 year old and so was mature enough to have a child". No income, no stable relationship, no home, yet had a child because they were "ready". B*llix. For once I sided with the 25 year old toff when she said "I'd have a kid tomorrow except I haven't finished Uni and started working yet".


  • Registered Users Posts: 5,420 ✭✭✭Lollipops23


    wild_cat wrote: »
    A good few professionals have been charged in the last few days as well.

    I totally believe this, but in any event like this there's always going to be a good portion of headcases with varying backgrounds.
    I think most of us can agree that the profile of the vast majority of rioters (read : scummers) was not that of the college-educated/employed person. and that's not to say that everyone who isn't college-educated/emplyed person was out there looting either.


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  • Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators, Regional North East Moderators Posts: 10,869 Mod ✭✭✭✭PauloMN


    wild_cat wrote: »
    Maybe ask them straight out why they do and then listen???

    Perhaps decriminalise drugs to stop truff wars happening etc. Take the drugs out of the hands of dealers....

    Marilyn Manson said the same thing after Colombine - He would just have asked and then listened because no one seemed to have done that. What they are doing currently obviously isn't working. Further increasing these measures is surely going have an even more detrimental effect.

    Just stop and listen? Aye, that'll solve it. Fluffy PC nonsense.

    Kids who have reached mid teens and are smashing cars and shops up, robbing stuff from shops and people, fighting police etc. are not going to change just because you listen to them.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 11,909 ✭✭✭✭Wertz


    According to Hugh Orde (RUC to the core) plastic bullets and water cannon are for NI only...and not applicable to problems on the Mainland. So only catholic scum deserve that treatment eh? Police weren't endangered in London the other night because they wouldn't tackle the rioters/looters...of all the riots I've heard of in NI, very few incidences of wanton firebombing of the levels seen on monday are evident.
    You can only use watercannon once you've hemmed people into estates with landrovers first so that the local Lodge can have their social gathering...


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 1,291 ✭✭✭wild_cat


    Are you for real?? There's a big enough problem with alcohol without having freely available coke, e, acid or whatever else you're suggesting.

    The Columbine killers didn't run around having riots and looting on a regular basis, so why would anyone have asked them anything?

    The parents of the children running around England atm are as bad as if not worse than them, this is the point. It doesn't occur to them to raise their children, as they were children when they had them and never learned any better themselves.

    Watching "Geordie Finishing school for girls" last night on BBC 3 and I thought it was ridiculous, some scummers from Newcastle saying "when I was 16 I had the head of a 25 year old and so was mature enough to have a child". No income, no stable relationship, no home, yet had a child because they were "ready". B*llix. For once I sided with the 25 year old toff when she said "I'd have a kid tomorrow except I haven't finished Uni and started working yet".

    Eh...... because no one knows the exact reasons why they shot half of their school?!?!?! and it's came out since... even the creators of south park have said that it was because they were downtrodden by class mates and teachers and this was the only way they could cope. - This isn't condoning by the way its only pointing out how these monsters were created.

    I'm making comparisons that show that disaffected youth are rarely listened to.


    People loved up on E shooting the **** out of people. Bad batch alert.

    Taking the trade out of the hands of drug dealers would be a big start. If you'd bothered to read anything scientific about drugs you'd know that alcohol is worse than most of them. You wouldn't have coked up drug dealers if you took the drug dealer out of the equation.

    Some people just shouldn't be having kids but unfortunately unless we sterilise everyone this isn't going to happen.


  • Registered Users Posts: 647 ✭✭✭DingChavez


    Wertz wrote: »
    According to Hugh Orde (RUC to the core) plastic bullets and water cannon are for NI only...and not applicable to problems on the Mainland. So only catholic scum deserve that treatment eh? Police weren't endangered in London the other night because they wouldn't tackle the rioters/looters...of all the riots I've heard of in NI, very few incidences of wanton firebombing of the levels seen on monday are evident.
    You can only use watercannon once you've hemmed people into estates with landrovers first so that the local Lodge can have their social gathering...

    They are probably afraid of the thugs there being stupid enough to fire back with real guns.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 1,291 ✭✭✭wild_cat


    PauloMN wrote: »
    Just stop and listen? Aye, that'll solve it. Fluffy PC nonsense.

    Kids who have reached mid teens and are smashing cars and shops up, robbing stuff from shops and people, fighting police etc. are not going to change just because you listen to them.

    So beating the **** out of them and taking the money away so they can starve to death is going to work better you think?

    What do you think they should do?

    Throw them in already over crowded jails like they have been doing for years where gang links get stronger etc?


    Come one some suggestions that won't make them even angrier other than just shouting "PC PC PC"


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 6,298 ✭✭✭Namlub


    Erm


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 4,005 ✭✭✭CorkMan


    What I sometimes wonder is why do people stab other people, deliberately ruin peoples lives and cause pain?

    I would never stab a person, I would be traumatized if I walked up to an innocent person and stabbed them, or glassed them, etc. I wouldn't ever beat up an old man or take a young man away from his Mother. These people are just animals, just bags of vomit.

    But why, or how can they, do these things?


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 11,909 ✭✭✭✭Wertz


    stevenmu wrote: »
    In effect it's saying that the actions are justified.

    ...and rightly or wrongly, in the eyes of those doing the majority of the violence burning and stealing, it is.
    That's what the 'apologists' are trying to get at...not say that thye should be allowed to do as they please, poor kids, etc.
    Without being able to see where the instigators are coming from how can you ever hope to solve the inherent problems that have lead to this?


  • Registered Users Posts: 5,420 ✭✭✭Lollipops23


    wild_cat wrote: »
    I'm making comparisons that show that disaffected youth are rarely listened to.
    So? Every generation of youths has their own problems. You could argue that it's the overly-PC "listening" and paying too much attention to every little problem of every teenager in the country that gave us this mess. "We want, we see, we take". The lack of empathy for others demonstrated by this mob is just terrifying.
    wild_cat wrote: »
    Taking the trade out of the hands of drug dealers would be a big start. If you'd bothered to read anything scientific about drugs you'd know that alcohol is worse than most of them. You wouldn't have coked up drug dealers if you took the drug dealer out of the equation.

    What exactly about the people rampaging the last few days has suggested to you that they could be trusted with readily available E and Coke...?
    wild_cat wrote: »
    Some people just shouldn't be having kids.
    You're defo on to something there amigo.....


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  • Closed Accounts Posts: 19,986 ✭✭✭✭mikemac


    Looking at the photos of the Sikh's with swords

    I'd imagine honour is very important to them, trash their temple and it'll be a slashing for you:eek:


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