London and UK riots (started in Tottenham 10:30PM, 6th Aug)

denhaagenite

Post edited to include more info RE: Columbine Killers

I just think that the parents need to be held accountable. Single mothers in Britain are thrown money and housing and this need to stop. I assume this is because they're raising the future of the country but if they're not doing it properly then there needs to be a consequence, for example:

• Implanon if more than 2 children with no means of support
• Compulsory parenting classes/ parent and toddler group sessions x times per week to "earn" benefits
• Voluntary work in community to "earn" benefits

All of these youth centres are closing down in Britain because they can't pay the staff. If the people on benefits were earning this money in widespread CE schemes then they would be out of the house and the kiddies would be occupied.

wild_cat

Lollipops23 wrote: »

So? Every generation of youths has their own problems. You could argue that it's the overly-PC "listening" and paying too much attention to every little problem of every teenager in the country that gave us this mess. "We want, we see, we take". The lack of empathy for others demonstrated by this mob is just terrifying.



What exactly about the people rampaging the last few days has suggested to you that they could be trusted with readily available E and Coke...?


You're defo on to something there amigo.....

Suggest what should be done that wont inflame the situation worse so?

If most of these rioters are kids and young teenagers they wouldn't be able to get their hands on any drug because they are under 18 if it was properly regulated.

wild_cat

denhaagenite wrote: »

Post edited to include more info RE: Columbine Killers

I just think that the parents need to be held accountable. Single mothers in Britain are thrown money and housing and this need to stop. I assume this is because they're raising the future of the country but if they're not doing it properly then there needs to be a consequence, for example:

• Implanon if more than 2 children with no means of support
• Compulsory parenting classes/ parent and toddler group sessions x times per week to "earn" benefits
• Voluntary work in community to "earn" benefits

All of these youth centres are closing down in Britain because they can't pay the staff. If the people on benefits were earning this money in widespread CE schemes then they would be out of the house and the kiddies would be occupied.

They are very good points actually.

PauloMN

wild_cat wrote: »

So beating the **** out of them and taking the money away so they can starve to death is going to work better you think?

What do you think they should do?

Throw them in already over crowded jails like they have been doing for years where gang links get stronger etc?

What I do know is that letting them away with it isn't going to help matters, and excusing it (or partially excusing it) because of some notion of society being unfair to them isn't right either.

It's been said before, but a lot of this lack of respect for people and property is down to those guys never having had to work for anything in their lives. Handout here, handout there, nothing to do, and internet/phones all to hand and you see the results. Handouts should not be given, they should be earned - and that's across the board. Once people work for what they earn, the respect for other people and their property comes naturally.

As for the few professionals caught looting - I'd suggest that they were opportunists taking advantage of the situation. If you were to profile every single person arrested, I'm pretty sure a clear socio-economic pattern would emerge.

wild_cat

PauloMN wrote: »

What I do know is that letting them away with it isn't going to help matters, and excusing it (or partially excusing it) because of some notion of society being unfair to them isn't right either.

It's been said before, but a lot of this lack of respect for people and property is down to those guys never having had to work for anything in their lives. Handout here, handout there, nothing to do, and internet/phones all to hand and you see the results. Handouts should not be given, they should be earned - and that's across the board. Once people work for what they earn, the respect for other people and their property comes naturally.

As for the few professionals caught looting - I'd suggest that they were opportunists taking advantage of the situation. If you were to profile every single person arrested, I'm pretty sure a clear socio-economic pattern would emerge.

I'm not excusing it though. Only saying the reasons why I think this has happened. I don't understand why you can't understand that.

We both want this to stop. We both never want to see this happen again etc.

Lollipops23

wild_cat wrote: »

Suggest what should be done that wont inflame the situation worse so?

What he said:

denhaagenite wrote: »

• Implanon if more than 2 children with no means of support
• Compulsory parenting classes/ parent and toddler group sessions x times per week to "earn" benefits
• Voluntary work in community to "earn" benefits

All of these youth centres are closing down in Britain because they can't pay the staff. If the people on benefits were earning this money in widespread CE schemes then they would be out of the house and the kiddies would be occupied.

wild_cat wrote: »

If most of these rioters are kids and young teenagers they wouldn't be able to get their hands on any drug because they are under 18 if it was properly regulated.

Yes because their uber-responsible parents have proved this week that they can be trusted not to expose their kids to drugs/alcohol. I saw a picture of a child no older than 11 or 12 swigging from a bottle of wine.

denhaagenite

Lollipops23 wrote: »

What he said:

EEEEK She

CrazyRabbit

Hmm...why are these rioters shot on site, just like any other terrrorist?

The damage they are doing is similar in severity of that which would be caused by mass terrorist bombings.

mloc

I'm in favour of drug legalisation but I think it would only work if it went hand in hand with the abolition of free public health care.

You either have the freedom to do what you like and take the consequences, or you allow certain restrictions on liberty in exchange for more state provided services.

You simply can't have both.

who the fug

CrazyRabbit wrote: »

Hmm...why are these rioters shot on site, just like any other terrrorist?

The damage they are doing is similar in severity of that which would be caused by mass terrorist bombings.

Because they don't shoot terrorists on sight

wild_cat

Lollipops23 wrote: »

What he said

Care to give some of your own?

Dr.Silly

No doubt this is going to do wonders for the Olympics next year :rolleyes:

indioblack

Wertz wrote: »

According to Hugh Orde (RUC to the core) plastic bullets and water cannon are for NI only...and not applicable to problems on the Mainland. So only catholic scum deserve that treatment eh? Police weren't endangered in London the other night because they wouldn't tackle the rioters/looters...of all the riots I've heard of in NI, very few incidences of wanton firebombing of the levels seen on monday are evident.
You can only use watercannon once you've hemmed people into estates with landrovers first so that the local Lodge can have their social gathering...

Cameron said today that baton rounds can be used.
One commentator has it that the riots in N.Ireland tend to be more static - and that is better suited for the use of watercanon.
It could be that the police would like to use watercannon - if the rioters would only keep still long enough.
I was shopping in Bristol on Sunday - and there was no indication of anything unusual happening - or likely to happen.

vard

Just watched police tackling these scum on TV right outside my old flat in Manchester.

Logical Fallacy

PauloMN wrote: »

What I do know is that letting them away with it isn't going to help matters, and excusing it (or partially excusing it) because of some notion of society being unfair to them isn't right either.

It's been said before, but a lot of this lack of respect for people and property is down to those guys never having had to work for anything in their lives. Handout here, handout there, nothing to do, and internet/phones all to hand and you see the results. Handouts should not be given, they should be earned - and that's across the board. Once people work for what they earn, the respect for other people and their property comes naturally.

As for the few professionals caught looting - I'd suggest that they were opportunists taking advantage of the situation. If you were to profile every single person arrested, I'm pretty sure a clear socio-economic pattern would emerge.

Once again another person missing the point. You are just assuming these kids have no values, and seem to believe that your value system makes more sense to them.

People are endlessly talking about how the kids have no sense of community when the evidence is that the do. The kids are their own community and everyone outside of their group is an enemy. It's really that simple for them.

As regards earning things...to these kids you earn what you can take...and you own what you can keep. They will see the people who go to work for the 9 to 5 as a sucker. You work and save for a month to by a new laptop and they can take it off you in a second.

Why work for what you can take? And why respect the people who will hand it over at the slightest hint of violence?

People need to stop running out the bull**** "that's just excusing it" line every time someone mentions the fact that these kids have no real future to speak of and are basically seeing how little option they have. This exact reason is one of the main things that is causing them to go out and commit acts of criminality on a daily basis.

Another very important aspect is that they don't fear reprisal from society. Juve is a ****ing playground and where they earn their stripes, going to jail earns nothing from their peers but respect.

The issues need to be clearly examined from both sides...way too many people in this thread blindly hammering the same point which doesn't fix a ****ing thing. You need to completely understand the problem, even if you don't like the mindset that is causing it and disagree with it...and you need to take a firm and hard stance with regards to punishment and dealing with it in the first place.

tayto lover

wild_cat wrote: »

They are very good points actually.

AND if they don't accept that and refuse then the P.C. lot will take their side and say that they should not have to do courses etc.

wild_cat

mloc wrote: »

I'm in favour of drug legalisation but I think it would only work if it went hand in hand with the abolition of free public health care.

You either have the freedom to do what you like and take the consequences, or you allow certain restrictions on liberty in exchange for more state provided services.

You simply can't have both.

Anyone stupid enough to put themselves in hospital due to drugs deserves the darwin award tbh.


I think I've just realised I've been reared properly.

PauloMN

wild_cat wrote: »

I'm not excusing it though. Only saying the reasons why I think this has happened. I don't understand why you can't understand that.

We both want this to stop. We both never want to see this happen again etc.

Yes we do. It's just the whole "let's listen to them" softly softly approach is a real bugbear of mine (nothing against you). I detest this notion of wrapping kids up in cotton wool. We had none of those systems when we were growing up, none of these hotlines where teens can ring up, say they have a spot and want to kill themselves - and there was far less of the teenage problems we see today.

Honestly, I think all this "stuff" that we are putting in place for teens is just making the problem worse, with a generation of spoiled little brats (at best) being brought up, and a bunch of scumbags like the rioters (at worst) being the result.

Well while not the complete solution to the problem, it's clear that education has a huge role to play here. Respect for others, respect for property, civics and social studies need to be introduced to kids at a young age, even in primary school at some level. How can a kid come out of school at 17 years of age and have no concept of how a country runs ffs?

denhaagenite

mloc wrote: »

I'm in favour of drug legalisation but I think it would only work if it went hand in hand with the abolition of free public health care.

You either have the freedom to do what you like and take the consequences, or you allow certain restrictions on liberty in exchange for more state provided services.

You simply can't have both.

100% agree with this. I've said it before here, the main reason we haven't gone to live in the UK is the NHS. I do not want be sitting in a hospital waiting room in an emergency situation behind 20 people who are being treated for drug, alcohol and std related issues on my health payments.

CHealy

Laois_Man wrote: »

Yes there are lots of bored kids here. But not nearly as many.

They also play soccer summer camps here. But it doesn't have the same appeal as the GAA. I also have a nephew in England. Tottenham coincidentally - and he's the only nephew I have (and I have a lot of them) who never participated in any sport growing up (he's in his 20's now).

Undeage soccer clubs in England....and even here...do not have the same pull. It doesn't have the same parochial intensity! You go to Corke Park on St. Patrick's day - to the club All-Ireland finals, and you see local guys who are very limited footballers/athletes fighting tooth and nail for their parish jersey. And they're national celebrities to the huge numbers of people who are interested in that. A Tottenham boy doesn't have anything like that to aspire to, unless he's in the 0.00001% of boys who are an obvious exceptional talent and might make it to professional league football at some level.

And this is why Ireland will never compete on the world stage in many sports, which would be a real occasion to be proud of, ex. the Olympics (winning a medal here and there), football (reaching the World Cup every now and again).

Its this "parochial" 1950's attitude that has ruined many great moments that we never got to see for Irish sport, and for what? a day out in a crumbling ground supporting a team so the parish priest can make a speech in the local pub after the game while the team eat ham sandwiches, get real ffs, people like you are caught in a little bubble.

wild_cat

PauloMN wrote: »

Well while not the complete solution to the problem, it's clear that education has a huge role to play here. Respect for others, respect for property, civics and social studies need to be introduced to kids at a young age, even in primary school at some level. How can a kid come out of school at 17 years of age and have no concept of how a country runs ffs?

Low IQ?

Parents with a low IQ?


I've watched Jeremy Kyle a few times....

Stev_o

Anyone else think after watching Sangat TV that Sikhism should be the de facto religion? They seem to speak more sense then anything iv been brought up on.

wild_cat

tayto lover wrote: »

AND if they don't accept that and refuse then the P.C. lot will take their side and say that they should not have to do courses etc.

No we won't.


Education is the key to the revolution.


It's more likely the pro life right wingers that would be against the Implant and the cutting of child benefit as people would get abortions if they knew they would get no support for their kids.

mikom

denhaagenite wrote: »

100% agree with this. I've said it before here, the main reason we haven't gone to live in the UK is the NHS. I do not want be sitting in a hospital waiting room in an emergency situation behind 20 people who are being treated for drug, alcohol and std related issues on my health payments.

News for you.............. You already are sitting behind them in most countries already.
With not a penny of taxes made off the drugs.

Wertz

CrazyRabbit wrote: »

Hmm...why are these rioters shot on site, just like any other terrrorist?

The damage they are doing is similar in severity of that which would be caused by mass terrorist bombings.

...what and further cheapen life in the eyes of this crowd? They already stab each other for a phone or for being insulted...if you start shooting them for stealing stuff, you tell them that material goods are worth more than a life, any life.
Shooting people throwing petrol bombs or torching people's shops, might be an idea, with baton rounds.

These aren't terrorists. Arguably they've doen more damge than any one since the luftwaffe, but they haven't got an agenda...it's simply mass hysteria.

Calibos

These scrotes are the same guys that would be mugging, throwing blocks at Fire Brigade, setting fire to wheely bins, shoplifting every other day of the week anyway. The difference is, they usually do it in smaller gangs. This time there was an excuse to do it all together in much larger groups. Its just the same sh1t they do all the time but its snowballed after the initial spark.

I'm bored innit. Nothing to do innit, just havin a laugh innit!!

You've nothing to do you neanderthal because....

you got yourself barred from the bowling alley for acting the bollix
you got yourself barred from the Amusement arcade for acting the bollix
you got yourself barred from the Youth Club for acting the bollix
you got yourself barred from the sports field for acting the bollix
you got yourself barred from the local pubs(if 18) for acting the bollix
you got yourself barred from the Cinema for acting the bollix

.....add every other amenity you can think of.

TheUsual

Stev_o wrote: »

Anyone else think after watching Sangat TV that Sikhism should be the de facto religion? They seem to speak more sense then anything iv been brought up on.

They make damn fine sofas I can tell you. Bought one last night myself.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lOB_msReDaE

PauloMN

wild_cat wrote: »

Low IQ?

Parents with a low IQ?


I've watched Jeremy Kyle a few times....

Nope, low IQ is certainly not the problem with these guys.

Stev_o

TheUsual wrote: »

They make damn fine sofas I can tell you. Bought one last night myself.

They love their Ghee aswell, that's enough to get me onboard.

who the fug

Does anyone see a way to break the circle, because I don' t