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London and UK riots (started in Tottenham 10:30PM, 6th Aug)

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  • Options
    #4832
    MagicSean
    Closed Accounts Posts: 9,897 ✭✭✭MagicSean


    denhaagenite wrote: »
    Not necessarily, a friends daughter nearly died earlier this year suffering from appendicitis while living in the UK. Father a dentist, mother a midwife and they would not send an ambulance for her (just making the point that as health professionals they would not have made a mountain out of a molehill). Then she was asked four million times if she was pregnant because they didn't think it was appendicits, all the while her appendix is bursting, before eventually operating. Only to be sent back here to more infections as they failed to remove everything. Horrible situation for any 16 year old to be in.

    I did some time with the ambulance service. I found it difficult to understand why people didn't just drive to the hospital in most cases. Faster all around.

    Also in relation to the pregnant thing. If there is one thing I've learned in the emergency services it is that every single person you deal with will lie to you. Maybe that's unfair. 99% of people will lie to you. For whatever reason they will always lie about something, be it major or minor. There are very few 16 year olds that will admit in front of their parents that they are pregnant. You can hardly blame them for wanting to be sure.


  • Options
    #4833
    denhaagenite
    Registered Users Posts: 1,169 ✭✭✭denhaagenite


    steve9859 wrote: »
    There are no incentives embedded in the system to get out of it.

    Well the incentive before was nicer stuff but now they know they can just loot it that incentive is gone...


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    #4834
    murphthesmurf
    Registered Users Posts: 732 ✭✭✭murphthesmurf


    This idea that education is the answer is partly bo77ox. They can all attend school, they all have free school places. They choose not to. Some people are just scum, when you realise this then you can start to deal with them correctly. They need to be forced to do things. You can raise a hyena or a lion etc from a cub, give it all the love in the world, teach it to stand on its head etc, but its a hyena. It knows it doesn't need to stand on its back legs and shake the paw the get a nice treat, it knows you are weaker than it and affraid of it, so it will decide that this is all just sh1te and rip your arm off and take what it wants.


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    #4835
    wild_cat
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,291 ✭✭✭wild_cat


    ricero wrote: »
    why don't the community's of England not just band together like the Asians in Birmingham and confront these thugs and protect their own neighborhoods.

    Cause the likes of the EDL and BNP could use this as a recruitment drive or even a chance to insight race hatred.


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    #4836
    ricero
    Closed Accounts Posts: 11,348 ✭✭✭✭ricero


    OPENROAD wrote: »
    The Asians in Birmingham are the English community ;)

    apologies it was ignorant of me


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    #4837
    Celticfire
    Registered Users Posts: 1,706 ✭✭✭Celticfire


    ricero wrote: »
    why don't the community's of England not just band together like the Asians in Birmingham and confront these thugs and protect their own neighborhoods.

    http://uk.news.yahoo.com/fed-residents-form-anti-looter-patrols-062625198.html
    On the streets of Enfield, in the north of the capital, a group of 70 men patrolled their streets late into Tuesday night.

    They were one of several groups in the area determined to take a stand against rioting and to help the over-stretched police force.

    Enfield was badly affected by the riots on Monday night, with a Sony warehouse set on fire.

    One of those involved in the patrol, Nick Davidson, said a lack of action from police prompted their decision: "We've had enough of the police just standing there... while people are looting and ruining the whole area.

    "Everybody here pays tax and we've all had enough of it. We're sickened by the police doing absolutely nothing.

    "They're not policing our streets, we have to police them."

    On the patrol in Enfield, the men told Sky News that they were determined to take a stand for "as long as it takes."

    Another participant told Sky News: "The real community of Enfield have had to come together and stick up for ourselves, the businesses, the places we come and shop, the places that we live and prevent any more damage happening."

    They also believe they have struck a chord with their community.

    Matt Skooly, 39, insisted that his group had had a positive response: "We've been cheered by pedestrians, other local people and the police cheered us on as well.

    "Hopefully this is going to cap it, this is the last of the kids coming out like thugs and wrecking stuff, we'll look after our own streets in a responsible way."

    As the evening progressed the crowd grew and was later estimated to number 300 people.

    In Southall, west London, hundreds of Sikh men stood guard outside their temple and patrolled the streets.

    They were located a few miles away from Ealing, which saw some of the worst of the riots on Monday night.

    The temple's president, Himmat Singh Sohi, said they wanted to protect their community.

    General secretary Dr Parvinder Singh Garcha told Sky: "We want to show them (the rioters) we are here together.

    "We want for them to discuss if they have a problem, we will address that with them but certainly we will not stand for any kind of wanton violence."

    Groups of people also congregated in Eltham, southeast London, where it was clear the English Defence League were involved in organising the gathering.


  • Options
    #4838
    Seachmall
    Registered Users Posts: 7,041 ✭✭✭Seachmall


    ricero wrote: »
    why don't the community's of England not just band together like the Asians in Birmingham and confront these thugs and protect their own neighborhoods.

    They're doing it all over, Sky News covered it for a few minutes last night. Muslims in Croydon ganging together to keep Mosques safe and even teenagers cycling up and down their streets keeping an eye out for rioters or looters.


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    #4839
    ricero
    Closed Accounts Posts: 11,348 ✭✭✭✭ricero


    Celticfire wrote: »
    http://uk.news.yahoo.com/fed-residents-form-anti-looter-patrols-062625198.html

    more of this action is surely needed


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    #4840
    denhaagenite
    Registered Users Posts: 1,169 ✭✭✭denhaagenite


    sensibleken wrote: »
    Nonsense. The NHS or irish healtcare system does not create junkies or people with food poisoning.

    There are a lot of people who get free healtcare, including myself, who would die if they didnt. Poor people, pensioners, people with debilitating illnesses where medicine can cost 1000s a month.

    There are a multitude of problems with the Irish healt system and the NHS. The problem is not solved by only giving healthcare to those who can afford it. Thats barbaric

    I'm not saying don't give free healthcare to people who actually need it, not at all. I'm saying that alot of these benefit scabbers do not realise what their lifestyles are costing and how everyone else is affected by their questionable behaviour.

    /EDIT The "food poisoning" I was referring to was a severe hangover


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    #4841
    mikom
    Closed Accounts Posts: 16,391 ✭✭✭✭mikom


    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IsQypGlE7c8


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    #4842
    Liam Byrne
    Closed Accounts Posts: 18,163 ✭✭✭✭Liam Byrne


    ricero wrote: »
    more of this action is surely needed

    The URL of that page made it seem like they didn't come out until after dinner!

    fed-residents-form-anti-looter-patrols-062625198.html


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    #4843
    Happyman42
    Closed Accounts Posts: 18,066 ✭✭✭✭Happyman42


    who the fug wrote: »
    yes but can you see the muppets in Westminster having the balls to comission a bevridge type report and implement it.

    They have no choice, it's either 'intervene' in a positive way or get ready to fight running battles until they are all living in an urban wasteland where dog eats dog.
    Calling these people scum or threatening to shoot them on sight (as some here recommend) may be fun to type but it is no solution.
    They are how they are because we made them.


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    #4844
    OPENROAD
    Registered Users Posts: 11,692 ✭✭✭✭OPENROAD


    :)

    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2024358/UK-RIOTS-2011-Sikhs-defend-temple-locals-protect-pubs-Britons-defy-rioters.html


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    #4845
    Liam Byrne
    Closed Accounts Posts: 18,163 ✭✭✭✭Liam Byrne


    Happyman42 wrote: »
    They are how they are because we made them.

    :confused::confused: I don't remember having unprotected sex with any chav when I was in London


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    #4846
    denhaagenite
    Registered Users Posts: 1,169 ✭✭✭denhaagenite


    Seanbeag1 wrote: »
    I did some time with the ambulance service. I found it difficult to understand why people didn't just drive to the hospital in most cases. Faster all around.

    Also in relation to the pregnant thing. If there is one thing I've learned in the emergency services it is that every single person you deal with will lie to you. Maybe that's unfair. 99% of people will lie to you. For whatever reason they will always lie about something, be it major or minor. There are very few 16 year olds that will admit in front of their parents that they are pregnant. You can hardly blame them for wanting to be sure.


    She was quite far from the nearest hospital at the time and they told her to go to a GP for a referral. The questioning was going on while she was an in patient. It went on for a week and aside from all of this she was a virgin.


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    #4847
    Seachmall
    Registered Users Posts: 7,041 ✭✭✭Seachmall


    Liam Byrne wrote: »
    :confused::confused: I don't remember having unprotected sex with any chav when I was in London

    Jaysus that was some mad night, I'm not surprised you don't remember.


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    #4848
    I Heart Internet
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,678 ✭✭✭I Heart Internet


    murphthesmurf wrote: »
    This idea that education is the answer is partly bo77ox. They can all attend school, they all have free school places. They choose not to...........

    I accept your point about attendance, but if an education is working from an early age attendance would be much easier to ensure. Just because the schools exist, are staffed and are free doesn't mean they are any good or are offering what society needs from them.

    I like the idea that education is what's left over when you're forgeotten everything you've learned in school....hopefully social skills, reading, writing and maths, common sense and a sense of right and wrong at the very, very least. Some UK schools are not providing that (having lived there). And it isn't the schools fault either but the Government for tolerating it.


  • Options
    #4849
    sensibleken
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,650 ✭✭✭sensibleken


    denhaagenite wrote: »
    I'm not saying don't give free healthcare to people who actually need it, not at all. I'm saying that alot of these benefit scabbers do not realise what their lifestyles are costing and how everyone else is affected by their questionable behaviour.

    well i cant argue with that. certainly a hard line needs to be taken with habitual people who clog up these services


  • Options
    #4850
    mikom
    Closed Accounts Posts: 16,391 ✭✭✭✭mikom


    denhaagenite wrote: »
    It went on for a week and aside from all of this she was a virgin.

    So was the blessed mother.


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    #4851
    Caraville
    Registered Users Posts: 854 ✭✭✭Caraville


    Lollipops23 wrote: »
    How about giving teachers back their power to discipline without fear of getting suspended for upsetting the poor wee darlings? If a teacher so much as raises their voice to a kid misbehaving, their parents are hot footing it down to the school calling it abuse etc. This goes for Ireland too.

    This teaches respect (and a small amount of fear of authority- a healthy amount) from a very early age.

    I've always said this- that a little bit of fear is no bad thing. The most effective teachers are the ones where you're a bit scared to make them angry. Not terrified of them, but you don't want to annoy them either. Only thing is, doesn't matter how effective a teacher is- if there's no fear of their parents then they don't care what teacher gives out to them.

    I have to say as a teacher that I hate and dread having to deal with parents, because even though 95% are grand, there honestly are those out there that think their child can do no wrong. But in the case of the rioters, I don't think that comes into it- I don't think parents care whether or which way the children behave.

    What scares me the most about our education system, is that it seems to be turning to the UK all the time for ideas and examples. The Irish Education system has always been known as one of the best in the world, but unfortunately this is quickly changing. We need to get back to the basics of literacy and numeracy and forget about all these staff meetings & policies etc. Sure, there's a place for the other things, but they shouldn't take precedence over the basics of education. Still though- I just feel like it doesn't matter what may have been offered in life to the people involved in these riots- they obviously have no morals at all.


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    #4852
    murphthesmurf
    Registered Users Posts: 732 ✭✭✭murphthesmurf


    Happyman42 wrote: »
    They are how they are because we made them.

    You have no idea. No one made them but themselves. A large portion of blame is on their parents, the rest is on the individual. I lived amongst them, 95% of them choose to live this way. Most wanna be Snoop Dog.


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    #4853
    darkmaster2
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,060 ✭✭✭darkmaster2


    Jello Biafra may have the answer

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pjGEMALNAjc
    Rejoice friends!

    Big government is over.
    From now on, instead of
    community
    you will be left
    in the Market place
    to fend for yourselves
    claw for yourselves
    stab for yourselves
    guard for yourselves
    what little money, savings, dignity and shelter
    you have left.

    After your jobs are downsized and
    exported to Mexico,
    tennishoes made by slaves in camps in Indonesia,
    computer jobs sent across the ocean to Indonesia,
    you will be next unless you bow down to the gar boots
    and throw your benefits away
    your raises away
    and this is all you have to look forward to
    forever and ever and ever.

    As more and more benefits are slashed,
    no more tax and spend welfare state
    the windfall from tax cuts for the rich
    is more and more people
    out in the cold on the street!
    Begging for money.
    And when that doesn't work,
    robbing people
    car jacking
    home invasion
    everyone taught
    that life is so cheap
    there's nothing to look forward to
    except what you can score
    and smoke and get higher.

    Ending welfare as we know it
    means third world crime
    as we know it.
    So why is it all these
    young people today misbehave
    misbehave, misbehave?

    Don't they appreciate the world we've build for them?
    Crappy jobs,
    dog eat dog.
    No compassion in the marketplace.
    If you like school
    you'll love work.
    Instead they ditch work
    and hang out on the street:
    young culture
    young hooligans
    on tv anyway
    and in the newspaper.
    More and more people
    will poor in the street
    as their rents go up
    and job opportunities go down.
    So we have to keep them down
    before they rise up and burn our
    house of cards to the ground.

    It's just the cost of doing business
    in third world countries where we keep the peasants down.
    We have to live in armed compounds with armed guards,
    play tennis at gunpoint.

    A different route to work behind bullet proof glass each day,
    but hey, the more the hoards hate you the more
    status you have.
    Why not do this with the whole world?
    with GAT treaties, downsizing but what about those god damned
    hooligans in the street?
    We stole their future.
    It's all their fault!
    We must lock them up,
    but there is no room in the jails
    so the best way is to sweep them away,
    make every home a prison today.
    Curfew, Curfew
    Who cares how much our leaders are corupt, as long as they are tough
    on crime?
    Curfew
    Keep them away!
    Curfew
    No longer unauthorized activity.

    You can't leave the home without an electronic ankle bracelet.
    Young offenders must be tagged and watched at all times.
    Tag their parents with bracelets too if they don't obey!
    For that matter tag them at work and make them stay.

    The main enemy
    terrorist threat
    is your own children.
    Think about it:
    The music they listen to
    that tells them the world is bad.
    It's the songs that are the problem
    not the violence outside.
    Keep them locked up!
    Keep them in Curfew!
    Put them away!
    Don't let them out!
    We are tougher on crime
    before the election.
    We want a national law
    establishing children's bedtimes.
    Bedtime Patrol
    We'll check up on you.
    Bedtime Patrol
    Make sure that your bracelet is on.
    The nanny state,
    to reach down your pants and check and see if you've been
    moistening yourself with any unauthorized substance without permission.
    Tag them!
    Curfew them!
    Keep them down!
    Keep them at home!
    To school
    to rent a video on the way home
    and stay home
    just like at work.
    Do not gather after dark.
    Curfew!
    It's such a family oriented word,
    a much more acceptable smiling soft word,
    a much more palletable concept
    than Marshall Law.
    Put your bracelets on.
    You are safer when you are watched.
    Don't go outside.
    You will set the alarm off!
    Curfew
    Forever
    and ever and evvvvvvvveeeeeeeeeeeerrrrrrrrrrrrrr


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    #4854
    Happyman42
    Closed Accounts Posts: 18,066 ✭✭✭✭Happyman42


    Liam Byrne wrote: »
    :confused::confused: I don't remember having unprotected sex with any chav when I was in London

    Had that happened, the chav may have been the one needing protection, and our heartfelt sympathies. :p


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    #4855
    Happyman42
    Closed Accounts Posts: 18,066 ✭✭✭✭Happyman42


    murphthesmurf wrote: »
    You have no idea. No one made them but themselves.

    Just like you where 'made' by your environment and your associations so also where they.


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    #4856
    WicklowNews
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3 ✭WicklowNews


    Some Wicklow people caught up in the riots. Starting to get hariy for them...

    http://www.wicklownews.net/index.php/2011/08/wicklow-natives-tell-of-horror-as-riots-spread-across-britain/


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    #4857
    Namlub
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,298 ✭✭✭Namlub


    bown 1 wrote: »
    just a few people letting off a bit of hot air..

    Slight understatement...


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    #4858
    denhaagenite
    Registered Users Posts: 1,169 ✭✭✭denhaagenite


    Happyman42 wrote: »
    Just like you where 'made' by your environment and your associations so also where they.

    I'd agree with this, but only to a certain extent.

    The garden that I grew up in wasn't all that rosy and I left school and home at a young age. However I managed to stay firmly on the rails, off the drugs and away from the pole, worked to pay my rent and eventually got myself back to school, college, emigrated and now work and pay a mortgage. I am a very happy, somewhat rounded individual who sometimes would like a little bit more than I have but manage to keep it in check. In fact if my thoughts wander that way it irritates me.

    Having said that, although the parenting I received was almost non existent, they both worked full time and put nutritious food on the table. In fact all they ever did was work for us.

    What I conclude is that I did pick up my work ethic from my parents, but very little else and had to work right from wrong out for myself.


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    #4859
    DominoDub
    Registered Users Posts: 1,572 ✭✭✭DominoDub


    ricero wrote: »
    more of this action is surely needed

    It will more likey result in "Rivers of Blood"

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rivers_of_Blood_speech


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    #4860
    biko
    Registered Users Posts: 81,220 ✭✭✭✭biko


    Russia Today report
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=snIjGKTZ2t8


    The opposite of political correct discussion from Michael Coren,
    English controversial talk show host on TV and radio in Canada.
    Not surprising he blames black gangsta culture and TV.
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ere21Bz0Rh0


    Police are almost up to 800 arrests, with the youngest being 11.


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    #4861
    nacho libre
    Registered Users Posts: 16,762 ✭✭✭✭nacho libre


    A Primal Nut wrote: »
    All that proves is that their are bad people in every section of this society, all the more reason why they shouldn't be excused because they are poor as some people are suggesting.

    Plenty of white collar criminals have been put in jail with lengthy criminal sentences, much longer than any of these rioting scumbags will ever get.

    That was precisely my point, there is no difference and neither should be excused, however those white collar criminals are not usually viewed as "lowlife" and "scum of the earth" types.
    The mental stumbling block, for most, is that financial crimes don't feel real; you don't see the culprits waving guns in liquor stores or dragging coeds into bushes. But these frauds are arguably actually worse for the misery they cause than common robberies.

    Also the stark reality is very few executives if any, from fortune 500 companies, who were responsible for the global financial crisis have been convicted of criminal offences, such as money laundering, insider trading, cooking the book, fraudlent advice, because the political will to do so is not there.
    Their firms been given a wrap on the knuckle, and they have received cushy severance packages in most cases by way of punishment(?)


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