London and UK riots (started in Tottenham 10:30PM, 6th Aug)

Happyman42

denhaagenite wrote: »

I'd agree with this, but only to a certain extent.

The garden that I grew up in wasn't all that rosy and I left school and home at a young age. However I managed to stay firmly on the rails, off the drugs and away from the pole, worked to pay my rent and eventually got myself back to school, college, emigrated and now work and pay a mortgage. I am a very happy, somewhat rounded individual who sometimes would like a little bit more than I have but manage to keep it in check. In fact if my thoughts wander that way it irritates me.

Having said that, although the parenting I received was almost non existent, they both worked full time and put nutritious food on the table. In fact all they ever did was work for us.

What I conclude is that I did pick up my work ethic from my parents, but very little else and had to work right from wrong out for myself.

Role models are not just parents, a child can see a situation and aspire to it, like the homelife of a friend or school mate. The environment.
What is happening here is that there are no role models to be seen, they live in communities where the robber lives the best life, the welfare fiddler is the best fed etc etc. Our collective social policies made these places, these ghettoes. When they look around there is just more of the same.

If you remove beacons of hope and the facilitators of change (education and community services) then it is like shutting a massive door. And the pressure builds. They are breaking down those doors all over Britain.

Duck's hoop

The forecast is for rain over there. Best crowd control tool. There'll be feck all trouble tonight I'd say.

MungBean

Just seen this on youtube, this Darcus Howe fella basically saying the actions are justified because its an insurrection based on the oppression of black youths in london. The vast majority of people on youtube agree with him. Seems to me like he's a guy with a chip on his shoulder hell bent on turning this into a racial issue and doing anything he can to justify the despicable behaviour of the youths. He even compares it to what is happening in Syria.

This isnt an insurrection of the masses of the people its organised scum stealing and burning. Bout time they declared marshal law and stopped this shít if you ask me.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=biJgILxGK0o

IsMiseLisa

I wrote a blog about the riots, yeah, and some twat took offence to what I'd written.

He commented, with the name 'Shut the **** Up': You don’t know nuthing about da riots. We done it 2 **** the government. when have the fat bastards ever done enything for us? money grabbing bastards.

^that, I do believe, sums up half the rioters. A bunch of ****ing idiots.

Liam Byrne

Since it's AH we'll add some lightness to the discussion.

Apparently it's not "social exclusion"......all the London/Manchester/Liverpool/Bi​rmingham scumbags just have kleptomania....

.......when it gets really bad the doctor advised that they should take something for it.

Richard Hillman

They have arrested somebody for the mugging of that poor young lad who was beaten up.

iamstop

Skunkle wrote: »

This isnt an insurrection of the masses of the people its organised scum stealing and burning. Bout time they declared marshal law and stopped this shít if you ask me.

Stopping this particular uprising/riot whatever is one thing, as far as I'm concerned that is just akin to moving a bunch of teenagers from one corner near your street to another. Once the fires are out and the dust had settled a serious look needs to be taken at the reason why these people feel the way they do.
The lack of jobs and future prospects are bleak for most involved.
I know there are reports of teacher assistants and other working people getting caught up but I believe that is a lot to do with human nature. I'm not excusing it but with youth centers closing and jobs going, lack of a good education, the continuous advertising of what the perfect life is and what you need to own to have it, all these things add up.
The lower classes will continue to have these sporadic outbursts as long as the divide is so large.

sensibleken

darkmaster2 wrote: »

Jello Biafra may have the answer

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pjGEMALNAjc

and i have just read that in his voice

Paparazzo

Skunkle wrote: »

Just seen this on youtube, this Darcus Howe fella basically saying the actions are justified because its an insurrection based on the oppression of black youths in london. The vast majority of people on youtube agree with him. Seems to me like he's a guy with a chip on his shoulder hell bent on turning this into a racial issue and doing anything he can to justify the despicable behaviour of the youths. He even compares it to what is happening in Syria.

This isnt an insurrection of the masses of the people its organised scum stealing and burning. Bout time they declared marshal law and stopped this shít if you ask me.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=biJgILxGK0o

Sounds like a bloke that can't wait to scream "racism". Check out this, Joan Rivers isn't the person to get on the wrong side of:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xlMTYHvl5bc

Happyman42

Skunkle wrote: »

Just seen this on youtube, this Darcus Howe fella basically saying the actions are justified because its an insurrection based on the oppression of black youths in london. The vast majority of people on youtube agree with him. Seems to me like he's a guy with a chip on his shoulder hell bent on turning this into a racial issue and doing anything he can to justify the despicable behaviour of the youths. He even compares it to what is happening in Syria.

This isnt an insurrection of the masses of the people its organised scum stealing and burning. Bout time they declared marshal law and stopped this shít if you ask me.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=biJgILxGK0o

To be fair to Darkus ( a longtime activist for social change) he was responding in the main to the initial trouble after the shooting, before it turned into widescale looting. The presenter was an unprofessional, sensationalist twat as well and she and the BBC should be ashamed of themselves.

denhaagenite

Happyman42 wrote: »

Role models are not just parents, a child can see a situation and aspire to it, like the homelife of a friend or school mate. The environment.
What is happening here is that there are no role models to be seen, they live in communities where the robber lives the best life, the welfare fiddler is the best fed etc etc. Our collective social policies made these places, these ghettoes. When they look around there is just more of the same.

If you remove beacons of hope and the facilitators of change (education and community services) then it is like shutting a massive door. And the pressure builds. They are breaking down those doors all over Britain.

They're not living under a rock, they can see their local business owners (whose livelihoods they are destroying) working their arses off to make a living, every single one has a TV at home that is the main attraction, and they all have access to free education until at least the age of 18. I know some of the universities in the UK are ridiculously expensive in terms of fees, but the sixth form colleges they have equip them for a multitude of decent jobs at the age of 18, and are much more relevant than the Leaving Cert, if they would only stay in school that long. The only place they could possibly be taking their lead from is their parents. Most of their society don't live like that.

Richard Hillman

Happyman42 wrote: »

To be fair to Darkus ( a longtime activist for social change) he was responding in the main to the initial trouble after the shooting, before it turned into widescale looting. The presenter was an unprofessional, sensationalist twat as well and she and the BBC should be ashamed of themselves.

He sounds like the type of person who has been going around these communities trying to create hatred.

Morlar

Happyman42 wrote: »

The presenter was an unprofessional, sensationalist twat as well and she and the BBC should be ashamed of themselves.

I think there is a hint of dementia about that guy. It's bizzare to blame the uber liberal bbc for what he says.

prinz

denhaagenite wrote: »

They're not living under a rock, they can see their local business owners (whose livelihoods they are destroying) .....

That's the irony of it, and where the whole argument about the lack of jobs etc breaks down. You campaign against the lack of jobs by burning down a load of sources of employment... the same as the little scrotebags who are always given a platform to bang on about the lack of amenities/opportunities in x, y or z and as soon as these amenities are provided they get vandalised and abused.

denhaagenite

Paparazzo wrote: »

Sounds like a bloke that can't wait to scream "racism". Check out this, Joan Rivers isn't the person to get on the wrong side of:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xlMTYHvl5bc

That was EPIC!! Usually despise Joan Rivers but she responded perfectly to his disgusting comment. Bet you he didn't for a second expect that

Logical Fallacy

PauloMN wrote: »

Issues need to be clearly examined? Ok hit me, what's your solution? You've stated a lot of facts but not much else.

Personally I'd send the little fcukers to Afghanistan for 6 months to earn their keep, but that of course would be very un-PC.

I wouldn't see the point in sending them to Afghanistan. You need to train them, equip them, feed them...all at extreme cost to the public coffers. You would also be sending off these inexperienced kids to a place where their stupidity and selfishness could get good men killed.

Not the best way to go with it in my opinion.

For me it's pretty clear than London learned nothing from the Brixton Riots and Operation Trident has mirrored Operation Swamp in both it's aims and it's results.

As for my solution...at the moment i wouldn't assume to offer one...I am still examining aspects of events, doing my research and coming to my own conclusions. It's what reasonable and intelligent people do after all.

Interesting the you admit i have stated a lot of facts...but not much else? Facts are facts, they are what opinions should be based on and should be the building blocks of progress. Would you prefer if i sat here and spewed and ill informed opinion with no real thought put into it? Would you feel more kinship with me, were i doing what you are doing?

The important thing that you will fail to get your head around is just because i don't assume to be able to fix things doesn't mean i can't point out the flaws in your plan. And believe me, your reactive Afghaniplan is flawed. Cost upon cost...great plan.

Richard Hillman

Can anybody tell me why the 1st generation immigrant Asian man that was interviewed last night who had his electrics shop looted, could go to England and set up a business and a life. Whilst this guy Darkus another 1st generation immigrant, the same age as the asian man and probably arrived at the same time as the asian man couldnt?

Why is Darkus struggling with life in England, whilst the man last night isnt?

prinz

Logical Fallacy wrote: »

As for my solution...at the moment i wouldn't assume to offer one...I am still examining aspects of events, doing my research and coming to my own conclusions. It's what reasonable and intelligent people do after all..

If only everyone had that luxury.

Happyman42

Morlar wrote: »

I think there is a hint of dementia about that guy. It's bizzare to blame the uber liberal bbc for what he says.

She can't get the answers she wants and intimates that he has been a rioter himself??? Jesus H, that's Sun journalism.

Penn

From Stewart Lee's mailing list:

The comedian Stewart Lee has become the latest innocent victim of the waves of mad violence currently sweeping the UK. On Tuesday 9th August the 43 year old comic received confirmation that all the unsold copies of his DVDs Stand-Up Comedian, Stewart Lee's Comedy Vehicle Series 1 and Stewart Lee's Comedy Vehicle Series 2 have been utterly destroyed in a fire, started by rioters, at the Sony Distributors' London Warehouse. It is unclear whether new copies of the DVDs will be manufactured. The callous TV opportunist urged fans to order any remaining copies of the three titles from Amazon, or to snap them up in the shops, before they disappear for ever. "A surge in sales of the few extant copies of these titles would be the perfect way to teach these mindless hooligans a lesson," he explained, adding, "There is no immediate threat to the DVDs 90s Comedian, 41st Best Stand-Up Ever and If You Prefer A Milder Comedian Please Ask For One, or to my book How I Escaped My Certain Fate, but it might be best to get these too." The sick Hackney comedian also warned of the possibility that he himself might be destroyed by rioters at some unspecified point in the distant future, and urged fans to book tickets for his forthcoming London run of shows and 2012 national tour; "A surge in ticket sales would be the perfect way to teach these mindless hooligans a lesson."

lucozader

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UZ4_TZQTj3Y

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w5pjFhQr9pI

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VCznvywH9G4

DominoDub

Darcus Howe may feel that Not much has changed !

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kE62ABclyf0

Sofa King Great

lucozader wrote: »

Various clips of the gardai

What point are you trying to make?

Morlar

Happyman42 wrote: »

She can't get the answers she wants and intimates that he has been a rioter himself??? Jesus H, that's Sun journalism.

She is dealing with an emotionally unstable dementia sufferer trying to reach some clarity without buying into his emotional, delusional drivel :

I don't call it rioting I call it an insurrection of the masses pf people. It is happening in Syria, it is happening in clapham it is happening in liverpool it is happening in port au spain trinidad and that is the nature of the historical moment.

[Q: Have you ever been in a riot]

I have never taken part in a single riot. I have been on demonstrations that ended up in conflict.

Guy is an idiot.

Why they are rolling this moron out as a spokesperson for his community is beyond me.

Logical Fallacy

Morlar wrote: »

She is dealing with an emotionally unstable dementia sufferer trying to reach some clarity without buying into his emotional, delusional drivel :

Oh don't be silly, he said he wasn't shocked by the riots so she jumped to the conclusion that he condones them?

He might be an idiot, but she's a ****ing retard.

Dyr

Richard Hillman wrote: »

Can anybody tell me why the 1st generation immigrant Asian man that was interviewed last night who had his electrics shop looted, could go to England and set up a business and a life. Whilst this guy Darkus another 1st generation immigrant, the same age as the asian man and probably arrived at the same time as the asian man couldnt?

Why is Darkus struggling with life in England, whilst the man last night isnt?

Because there's more differences between people than just their race?

What has Gardai doing their jobs and giving idiots their just deserveds got to do with London Rioting?

red menace

@lucazader no clips from the love ulster protest/riot

prinz

Logical Fallacy wrote: »

He might be an idiot, but she's a ****ing retard.

He's comparing what is happening in Syria and what's happening in England? There's only one retard as far as I can see. Trying to make a comparison between them is an exercise in condoning what has happened in London and elsewhere tbh.

Latchy

Richard Hillman wrote: »

Can anybody tell me why the 1st generation immigrant Asian man that was interviewed last night who had his electrics shop looted, could go to England and set up a business and a life. Whilst this guy Darkus another 1st generation immigrant, the same age as the asian man and probably arrived at the same time as the asian man couldnt?

Why is Darkus struggling with life in England, whilst the man last night isnt?

He also made the point that the holligans in the main were well fed looking and well dressed which means they are getting their source of income to wear the latest expensive trendy gear from some place and not for many the £25 trainers of hoody tops ,no sir , they have to have the latest £90 trainers to 'fit in ' .

the London police were told to 'stand and observe' rioters the last nights and left frustrated at not being able to wade in on the looters so Cameron now says it's ok for them to use watercannon and whatever other methods they need but the Manchester police had no hesitation and got stuck in with the baton last night .This is the north /south divides way of dealing with it and the extra police did make the difference but had the police been allowed to crack heads earlier , some of the property destroyed may have being saved from destruction .