Microsoft says: "PC gamers are better than console gamers"

Dustaz

Overheal wrote: »

Sure!

Good work overheal. This certainly informs me as to your thoughts towards the current debate. You've won me over !

ED E

What I wanna know is can I hack my KB and mouse to map to my xbox and absolutely destroy everybody on COD?

http://xim3.com/?page_id=187

Tempted. Go on and destroy the little brother XD

Azza

Bah!!! arcade players are superior with our manly 50cent a game and virtual non exsistence in this country.

Overheal

Dustaz wrote: »

Good work overheal. This certainly informs me as to your thoughts towards the current debate. You've won me over !

Well i do apologize but your theory is unfounded. Console games can be just as fun and challenging as PC games. Sure if you love sniping I'd pick a PC, but Steel Battalion? Try THAT game and let me know how you feel about console gaming. And **** for shooting check out the Wii, you get some fun ones, like Metroid Prime.

i disagree that one's preference in platform has a bearing on their skill level. I find it ridiculous in fact. a COD player on PC might be a better shot but you might a better tactician than you is playing the game on the console. It's not always down to the better shot but the better position and who gets the drop on whom. Not that I refute the findings of Microsoft but I am merely pointing out skilled gamers are not only attracted to the PC.

Magill

Not gonna lie.... i reckon i'd whoop the average PC gamer in blops tbh... using a PS3 pad (Obviously i'd need the aim assist). In general the average PC player is quite bad, they might have a mouse but in general their aim is complete dung, just like the average console gamer.

Obviously playing something like quake is a different matter but for something like CoD or even battlefield, the average player on any of the platform just isn't very good at all. Gamepads really aren't as bad as PC gamers would have you believe anyway.

Coming from someone who played exclusively on PC until about a year and a half ago, it takes some getting used to thats for sure. Got my ass handed to me for a good month or so when i first switched. So obviously if you play most of your games on PC, jumping on console is gonna feel weird and you'll think its ****e.



If we're comparing the competitive sides of both... i would agree that there is far more skilled players at the top end of games like CS/Quake. IMO thats more to do with how long those guys have been playing their game of choice and just how long competitive gaming has been established on PC. But the average PC gamer (Most people on this forum) really aren't "Better".

Funky

Dustaz wrote: »

Well, you can only judge whats in front of you. People dont say that the best three footballers who have ever lived are Pele, Maradonna and that guy who played down in fairview park but didnt fancy playing in a team. So the natural talent thing can't be judged unless by competition and barring the somewhat contrived mlg halo stuff, all "major league" gaming competition exists almost exclusively for pcs.

Yea that's true and I agree to a large extent. Just that given the large amount of console players there must be people of equal talent to the best PC gamers, but given that they probably didn't base their decision to play on console vs PC by what offers the highest level of play but rather on what their friends play/what they're used. Kind of like a GAA player who could be amazing at rugby or something :P

But that's just a more philosophical argument I suppose. I'd definitely agree mostly though from the point of view that the more likely someone is to care about competing the more likely they are to be talented at a game and the more likely would choose to play on the PC then.

Overheal wrote: »

Well i do apologize but your theory is unfounded. Console games can be just as fun and challenging as PC games.

Sure they can be just as challenging, but only because everyone has gimped controls. The level of play (talking mainly about FPS/RTS games) is way higher on the PC than it is on consoles, since what a mediocre player can do with a kb+m is about the same as what a pro can do with a controller.

Overheal wrote: »

i disagree that one's preference in platform has a bearing on their skill level. I find it ridiculous in fact. a COD player on PC might be a better shot but you might a better tactician than you is playing the game on the console. It's not always down to the better shot but the better position and who gets the drop on whom. Not that I refute the findings of Microsoft but I am merely pointing out skilled gamers are not only attracted to the PC.

But the best PC player vs the best console player would be such a hard rape that it'd be painful to watch. Obviously the argument isn't 'everyone that plays on a PC is better than someone that plays on a console'...

Retr0gamer

Magill wrote: »

Not gonna lie.... i reckon i'd whoop the average PC gamer in blops tbh... using a PS3 pad (Obviously i'd need the aim assist). In general the average PC player is quite bad, they might have a mouse but in general their aim is complete dung, just like the average console gamer.

Obviously playing something like quake is a different matter but for something like CoD or even battlefield, the average player on any of the platform just isn't very good at all. Gamepads really aren't as bad as PC gamers would have you believe anyway.

Coming from someone who played exclusively on PC until about a year and a half ago, it takes some getting used to thats for sure. Got my ass handed to me for a good month or so when i first switched. So obviously if you play most of your games on PC, jumping on console is gonna feel weird and you'll think its ****e.



If we're comparing the competitive sides of both... i would agree that there is far more skilled players at the top end of games like CS/Quake. IMO thats more to do with how long those guys have been playing their game of choice and just how long competitive gaming has been established on PC. But the average PC gamer (Most people on this forum) really aren't "Better".

Maybe you could beat any PC gamer but then again you have aim assist and the ability to no scope. However try to play against a mouse player that can no-scope. PC players can easily configure any game to include no-scoping except it's usually referred to as cheating by PC gamers.

Dustaz

Overheal wrote: »

Well i do apologize but your theory is unfounded. Console games can be just as fun and challenging as PC games.

I'm not sure you are getting my theory.
See "fun", "challenging" and "better" are all such subjective terms. What i find interesting about this thread is that 99% of the people on it agree that m+kb is (for most competitive, and therefore quantifiable, purposes) the "better" option.

So if this is indeed the better option, do the best not choose this?

i disagree that one's preference in platform has a bearing on their skill level. I find it ridiculous in fact. a COD player on PC might be a better shot but you might a better tactician than you is playing the game on the console. It's not always down to the better shot but the better position and who gets the drop on whom. Not that I refute the findings of Microsoft but I am merely pointing out skilled gamers are not only attracted to the PC.

I agree, but in FPS for sure, its all meaningless without having a competive shot. You can outwit your foe till the cows come home, but if he can twitch a 180 shot on you, its meaningless.

The above point also relates to Funky's point:

Funky wrote: »

Yea that's true and I agree to a large extent. Just that given the large amount of console players there must be people of equal talent to the best PC gamers, but given that they probably didn't base their decision to play on console vs PC by what offers the highest level of play but rather on what their friends play/what they're used. Kind of like a GAA player who could be amazing at rugby or something :P

This is a good example, but generally people end up playing what they are best at. Michael Jordan for example. Good baseball player, legendary basketball player. Surely if they were that good, they would find themselves the niche. At least thats the ideal.

Combine this with Overheals point. If someone was such a good tactician, would they be content (or let) to use this ability in the FCA rather than the full army?


Again, I'm not trolling with all this, I just find it a very interesting discussion.

But the best PC player vs the best console player would be such a hard rape that it'd be painful to watch. Obviously the argument isn't 'everyone that plays on a PC is better than someone that plays on a console'...

Agreed, it clearly isnt. But there doesnt seem to be any good argument against the motion "the best pc gamers are better than the best console gamers"

Dustaz

Magill wrote: »

Not gonna lie.... i reckon i'd whoop the average PC gamer in blops tbh... using a PS3 pad (Obviously i'd need the aim assist).

Kiith

Magill wrote: »

Not gonna lie.... i reckon i'd whoop the average PC gamer in blops tbh... using a PS3 pad (Obviously i'd need the aim assist). In general the average PC player is quite bad, they might have a mouse but in general their aim is complete dung, just like the average console gamer

A good player with a joypad will beat a bad player with a mouse/keyboard. Using the mouse/keyboard doesnt all of a sudden make you better. But a good player with a mouse/keyboard will beat a good player with a joypad. This is obviously assuming they are on level terms in knowing the level/game/tactics etc...

We (most of us anyway) aren't saying that people are less skillful cause they use a joypad. Just that the joypad is, from a technical point of view, an inferior control method for a first person shooter.

Magill

Funky wrote: »

Yea that's true and I agree to a large extent. Just that given the large amount of console players there must be people of equal talent to the best PC gamers, but given that they probably didn't base their decision to play on console vs PC by what offers the highest level of play but rather on what their friends play/what they're used. Kind of like a GAA player who could be amazing at rugby or something :P

But that's just a more philosophical argument I suppose. I'd definitely agree mostly though from the point of view that the more likely someone is to care about competing the more likely they are to be talented at a game and the more likely would choose to play on the PC then.

Not true at all... i say with 100% confidence that nearly everyone who plays competitively on the PC (Be it counterstrike/quake or CoD) started off as a noob who played for fun. I never discovered competitive cs until at least a 1-2 years after playing nothing but public lobbies... Same is true with competitive console gaming. Why would they switch to PC gaming after spending so long getting decent on a different platform ?


Besides competitive PC gaming is dwindling (With the exception of starcraft obviously) and there is a far bigger scene in competitive console gaming these days.

http://gamebattles.com/xbox360/call-of-duty-black-ops/ladder/team/

That is the main online league for competitive blops in the states and has over 8500 US teams (Teams consist of 4 players, and it is the summer league so its not all old teams). The euro league has a few thousand aswel, but GB isn't the main EU league.

Funky

Magill wrote: »

Not true at all... i say with 100% confidence that nearly everyone who plays competitively on the PC (Be it counterstrike/quake or CoD) started off as a noob who played for fun. I never discovered competitive cs until at least a 1-2 years after playing nothing but public lobbies... Same is true with competitive console gaming. Why would they switch to PC gaming after spending so long getting decent on a different platform ?

Well that just comes down to what they're used to. For someone whose experienced in FPS on both platforms, assuming there are equal opportunities on both platforms(I realise this is an idealistic scenario), I'm implying that if they care about how well a game can be played they would choose the platform with a higher skill cap.

Magill

Retr0gamer wrote: »

Maybe you could beat any PC gamer but then again you have aim assist and the ability to no scope. However try to play against a mouse player that can no-scope. PC players can easily configure any game to include no-scoping except it's usually referred to as cheating by PC gamers.

I have no idea what your talking about... and neither do you by the sounds of it :P I'll stress again, i've played competitively on PC for a LONG time (7 or 8 years, at a high enough level). I know what you can and can't do on PC.

Kiith wrote: »

A good player with a joypad will beat a bad player with a mouse/keyboard. Using the mouse/keyboard doesnt all of a sudden make you better. But a good player with a mouse/keyboard will beat a good player with a joypad. This is obviously assuming they are on level terms in knowing the level/game/tactics etc...

We (most of us anyway) aren't saying that people are less skillful cause they use a joypad. Just that the joypad is, from a technical point of view, an inferior control method for a first person shooter.

Oh yeah, i know that, nothing compares to a keyboard and mouse. I was just refering to the typical PC Elitist attitude that a lot of PC gamers have. Was more talking about the average PC gamer is just as bad/good as the average console gamer. Without the advantage of having a mouse to aim with, they would probably be equal.


A more balanced way of deciding who are the better gamers would be to have people play against each other on both platforms. Obvious result is obvious tho.

Fnz

Dustaz wrote: »

Aim assist is standard for a console fps. It should be no surprise that Magill's claim takes that into account. It asks nothing more than for the game to handle the same way the player has become accustomed to.

One thing I'd be worried about, if ever this PC/console cross-platform fps play came into vogue, would be the level of aim assist granted to console players in order to 'balance' the game. At what point does the level of assist become unfair?

Retr0gamer

Magill wrote: »

I have no idea what your talking about... and neither do you by the sounds of it :P I'll stress again, i've played competitively on PC for a LONG time (7 or 8 years, at a high enough level). I know what you can and can't do on PC.

Stuff like aim assist and the aiming reticule snapping to an enemy when you iron sight are added to the console versions of games to make the games playable with a controller. On a PC these features have used hacked into FPS games for years to cheat in FPS games.

Magill

Retr0gamer wrote: »

Stuff like aim assist and the aiming reticule snapping to an enemy when you iron sight are added to the console versions of games to make the games playable with a controller. On a PC these features have used hacked into FPS games for years to cheat in FPS games.

Ahh, i was talking about the no scoping thing... there is no aim "bot" so to speak in CoD multiplayer at least not like the hacks you'd get on PC, its more a subtle aim assist(I may be wrong but theres no aim assist in battlefield i think) and its effect range is pretty short, so obviously when shooting at long distance you don't have any aim assist. I know some people play with aim assist of tho.

Dustaz

Aim assist is standard for a console fps. It should be no surprise that Magill's claim takes that into account. It asks nothing more than for the game to handle the same way the player has become accustomed to.

Good point. Thats something Id really like to see, as it might go aways to adressing overheals previous point about skill being more than just aim.

Magill wrote: »

Besides competitive PC gaming is dwindling (With the exception of starcraft obviously) and there is a far bigger scene in competitive console gaming these days.

I sort of agree with that, but unfortunatly there is no console tournaments that compare to not only SC2 but CS or even quake and wc3 in their time in terms of money and prestige. The genre that seems to be exploding right now, MOBA, has a tournament that the winners recieve 1 million dollars. Competitive console leagues cannot compete with that yet.
]

Magill

Dustaz wrote: »

Good point. Thats something Id really like to see, as it might go aways to adressing overheals previous point about skill being more than just aim.



I sort of agree with that, but unfortunatly there is no console tournaments that compare to not only SC2 but CS or even quake and wc3 in their time in terms of money and prestige. The genre that seems to be exploding right now, MOBA, has a tournament that the winners recieve 1 million dollars. Competitive console leagues cannot compete with that yet.
]

Theres a blops tournament in 3 weeks for $1,000,000.....

Still, its a very new scene but its growing something serious... im not sure on the exact viewing figures but the MLG events get some huge numbers (http://forums.majorleaguegaming.com/topic/240355-mlg-delivers-record-breaking-35-million-online-video-streams-from-anaheim/) . Granted most of that is from SC2 but Halo and CoD no doubt held their own. The prestige would be just as good aswel, you just have to look at youtube to see how much of a following these guys have. The EU scene seems to have a lot less funding, even tho theres a huge scene.. that'll change with time no doubt.

Whats MOBA ? I heard there was a $1m tournament for the reveal of dota2... thats insane tbh, nice to see valve are pushing the competitive side of it.

EDIT: Misread your post.

Dcully

I wasnt gonna bother getting involved with this thread at all but i couldnt resist any longer
I think im qualified to offer a genuine opinion ,the last year or so since my son is old enough ive being playing some console fps games with him, its great craic to game with him.
Hes 90% of the time near the top of the scoreboard and pretty damn rapid with the pad while im pretty comfy also with a pad.
However when i wanna play what i enjoy the most i boot up the pc and play,pc will always be my platform of choice for many reasons.
Lastnight for the lols on a server i play BC2 on most nights i setup the pad to play on the pc.
Remember this server has players on i know pretty well and their respective skill level.
Map was Arica Harbour rush mode, my final K/D was 4/22 with the pad,next up when the teams switched i was back to normality with the KB/Mouse with a K/D of 27/13.

Up next was panama canal conquest and my sons turn, here again his K/D was 8/23 with the pad but 15/12 with kb/mouse.
This short test offers pretty decent data on the topic i my opinion.

Ofcourse i could have pulled those stats out of the sky but my son and i thought it would be interesting to do a small test for ourselves.
The results didnt surprise me at all, anyone who thinks the average pad user can compete with the average kb/mouse user is simply deluded.
It boils down to the fact that the pc has better tools for the job at hand.
I put together two ikea flat pack bedside lockers lastweek, the first one i used a drill thingy for the screws, the battery died and i done the second by hand with a philips screw driver,needless to say the manual screw driver was a lot slower

I wouldnt drag race a 350bhp car in my 140 bhp car and expect to win.
Likewise im pretty sure Sebastian Vettel in my 140bhp car wouldnt expect to beat the more powerful 350 bhp car
I participate in simracing quite a bit, not nearly as much as i used to.
Ive took part in some of the top leagues in Uk and Europe over the years, more recently ive being playing iracing which even has real life professional racing drivers happy to pay its subscription, the net result with iracings superior physics is it attracts the best simracers on the planet thus making it the most competitive racing simulation out there,this is a fact.
Here again when i was running league races [yes im in one of the lowest divisions ] i wouldnt dream of using a pad, it has to be s decent steering wheel and pedal set up all the way, a pad simply is nowhere near accurate enough.
Apart from the massive difference in lap times id be a danger to others on the track which would result in my SR [known as safety rating in iracing] taking a huge hit.

All this does not equate to the pc gamer being superior,debating who is the better gamer is actually a pointless exercise.
Ofcourse there are excellent and poor gamers on both platforms.

Most here seem to be using the fps genre as a reference, the rts genre is also a great reference, can you imagine the top starcraft 2 players playing someone with a pad ? or someone raiding in world of warcraft etc now that would be hilarious
Game developers know full well which is the superior means to play some genres hence why they add in all sorts of aids to assist pad users.
The flipside to this is i wouldnt play Fifa or Pes on my pc with a kb/mouse and expect to compete with the pad users.
Nothing beats a pad for such a game.

At the end of the day gaming is meant to be fun and more often than not is fun regardless of the means of control.
A gamers means of control with whatever genre doesnt make either user a better or worse gamer.
The article linked by Tallon is an ancient article,maybe he was aware of this and just wanted to form a discussion? maybe not?
Nothing at all wrong with that either way.

Magill

Dcully wrote: »

I wasnt gonna bother getting involved with this thread at all but i couldnt resist any longer
I think im qualified to offer a genuine opinion ,the last year or so since my son is old enough ive being playing some console fps games with him, its great craic to game with him.
Hes 90% of the time near the top of the scoreboard and pretty damn rapid with the pad while im pretty comfy also with a pad.
However when i wanna play what i enjoy the most i boot up the pc and play,pc will always be my platform of choice for many reasons.
Lastnight for the lols on a server i play BC2 on most nights i setup the pad to play on the pc.
Remember this server has players on i know pretty well and their respective skill level.
Map was Arica Harbour rush mode, my final K/D was 4/22 with the pad,next up when the teams switched i was back to normality with the KB/Mouse with a K/D of 27/13.

Up next was panama canal conquest and my sons turn, here again his K/D was 8/23 with the pad but 15/12 with kb/mouse.
This short test offers pretty decent data on the topic i my opinion.

Ofcourse i could have pulled those stats out of the sky but my son and i thought it would be interesting to do a small test for ourselves.
The results didnt surprise me at all, anyone who thinks the average pad user can compete with the average kb/mouse user is simply deluded.
It boils down to the fact that the pc has better tools for the job at hand.
I put together two ikea flat pack bedside lockers lastweek, the first one i used a drill thingy for the screws, the battery died and i done the second by hand with a philips screw driver,needless to say the manual screw driver was a lot slower

I wouldnt drag race a 350bhp car in my 140 bhp car and expect to win.
Likewise im pretty sure Sebastian Vettel in my 140bhp car wouldnt expect to beat the more powerful 350 bhp car
I participate in simracing quite a bit, not nearly as much as i used to.
Ive took part in some of the top leagues in Uk and Europe over the years, more recently ive being playing iracing which even has real life professional racing drivers happy to pay its subscription, the net result with iracings superior physics is it attracts the best simracers on the planet thus making it the most competitive racing simulation out there,this is a fact.
Here again when i was running league races [yes im in one of the lowest divisions ] i wouldnt dream of using a pad, it has to be s decent steering wheel and pedal set up all the way, a pad simply is nowhere near accurate enough.
Apart from the massive difference in lap times id be a danger to others on the track which would result in my SR [known as safety rating in iracing] taking a huge hit.

All this does not equate to the pc gamer being superior,debating who is the better gamer is actually a pointless exercise.
Ofcourse there are excellent and poor gamers on both platforms.

Most here seem to be using the fps genre as a reference, the rts genre is also a great reference, can you imagine the top starcraft 2 players playing someone with a pad ? or someone raiding in world of warcraft etc now that would be hilarious
Game developers know full well which is the superior means to play some genres hence why they add in all sorts of aids to assist pad users.
The flipside to this is i wouldnt play Fifa or Pes on my pc with a kb/mouse and expect to compete with the pad users.
Nothing beats a pad for such a game.

At the end of the day gaming is meant to be fun and more often than not is fun regardless of the means of control.
A gamers means of control with whatever genre doesnt make either user a better or worse gamer.
The article linked by Tallon is an ancient article,maybe he was aware of this and just wanted to form a discussion? maybe not?
Nothing at all wrong with that either way.

TBH, im not too familar with BF on console.. but i'd imagine CoD is far more suited to console than BF is, as BF is far less twitch based and slower paced so micro aiming is more important that reactions. That obviously plays more into the hands of a mouse.

Either way, i don't think anyone is disputing that a mouse/keyboard is better than a gamepad.

Dcully

Im pretty sure if i carried out similar tests on cod it would be similar results.
Have you ever played a 32 player Rush map in bc2?
Thats as twitch based and fast paced as any game of cod.

Not gonna lie.... i reckon i'd whoop the average PC gamer in blops tbh... using a PS3 pad (

I have to disagree with ya there, the average pc gamer will have his ironsight / crosshair on you a lot faster than anyone can with a pad in my opinion.
Its not just the aiming, its the movement , everything is just so much more snappy with a mouse, you said yourself you played a lot on pc, i reckon you are away from pc fps gaming far too long if you think you could whoop the average pc gamer,regardless of your skill level with a pad i seriously doubt you would , thats not a dig at you at all mate.
Im sure your as good a player as you claim but you simply cannot compare the two and expect to whoop the ass of an average pc gamer.
These days im a casual gamer, i play my fps games on public servers.
Pretty much all of the servers in my favourites list have regulars on that i would regard as average skill,im pretty sure most of them would destroy a top pad user.


grr i really didnt want to get into this debate lols

Kiith

Dcully wrote: »

grr i really didnt want to get into this debate lols

Your stuck here now :pac:

Magill

Dcully wrote: »

I have to disagree with ya there, the average pc gamer will have his ironsight / crosshair on you a lot faster than anyone can with a pad in my opinion.
Its not just the aiming, its the movement , everything is just so much more snappy with a mouse, you said yourself you played a lot on pc, i reckon you are away from pc fps gaming far too long if you think you could whoop the average pc gamer,regardless of your skill level with a pad i seriously doubt you would , thats not a dig at you at all mate.
Im sure your as good a player as you claim but you simply cannot compare the two and expect to whoop the ass of an average pc gamer.
These days im a casual gamer, i play my fps games on public servers.
Pretty much all of the servers in my favourites list have regulars on that i would regard as average skill,im pretty sure most of them would destroy a top pad user.


grr i really didnt want to get into this debate lols

I would consider myself well above average on console, and just going from past experience i know what the average gamer is like on PC (Public servers) and they're just as bad as console gamers. Running around like headless chickens, movement as fluent as an elephant on a tightrope... i mean unless the skill levels have dramatically increased in the public side of things on PC within the last year or so then.... yeah... sure we used to turn up to Irish CSS lans and most of the time we could win it using pistols. Even at ISeries you could get into the knockout stages using nothing but ****ty weapons and playing like it was a public match with no tactics or teamwork.. and thats against players that would typically be doing ok in public servers. You could litteraly run side to side while they wasted a whole clip into the ground/walls/sky (Anywhere but on the player)... so yeah... im pretty sure i could lock onto those sort of players a lot quicker than they could on me. Maybe CoD is different tho.

I think you are either underestimating what is possible on a gamepad or massively overrating the average PC public gamer. If your going 27-13 then your obviously not average, the average gamers typically go even K/D (Obviously). I would love to try it out tho, would have to get used to playing without aim assist tho .

Anyway, we'll just have to agree to disagree since we'll never know.

Hopefully they bring more K/M support with the next gen, because i do miss my ole MX518 (

CORaven

It just seems to me that the only great thing about a K&M set up is the mouse and the dexterity it provides. I would imagine the aiming using the mouse would be superior to a thumb stick, but a thumbstick would be superior to the WASD keys for movement. Is there a system that tries to combine the best of both? (You know, without holding a mouse in one hand and a controller in the other.)

Retr0gamer

CORaven wrote: »

It just seems to me that the only great thing about a K&M set up is the mouse and the dexterity it provides. I would imagine the aiming using the mouse would be superior to a thumb stick, but a thumbstick would be superior to the WASD keys for movement. Is there a system that tries to combine the best of both? (You know, without holding a mouse in one hand and a controller in the other.)

Thumb stick doesn't really add much to movement at all. Thumbsticks do have analogue movement but it's hardly precise and when in an FPS are you ever running less than full pelt? Anyway the on kb + m it's a combination of the WASD keys and mouse that give you the full movement, can't take the mouse out of the equation. I find both movement and aiming far better on a mouse and keyboard set up. WASD controls going forward, backwards and strafing and the analogue modifications to the trajectories are provided by the mouse to a much greater degree than a thumbstick can provide. Couple that to a far quicker turning circle and the gamepad has no advantage in this area either.

Magill

I wouldn't say the WASD is what makes a keyboard better for movement, its just the general layout of a keyboard and how many keys you have available.

You can get a controller which has a mouse and analog that you can play on the PS3 (The mouse is ****e) and it works well enough for moving, but your limited to 2 or 3 buttons along with the analog. Whereas with the keyboard. You have about 14/15 keys within range of the WASD keys and are comfortable to press while moving about. You tend to use all of them regularly enough aswel.

CORaven

Retr0gamer wrote: »

Thumb stick doesn't really add much to movement at all. Thumbsticks do have analogue movement but it's hardly precise and when in an FPS are you ever running less than full pelt? Anyway the on kb + m it's a combination of the WASD keys and mouse that give you the full movement, can't take the mouse out of the equation. I find both movement and aiming far better on a mouse and keyboard set up. WASD controls going forward, backwards and strafing and the analogue modifications to the trajectories are provided by the mouse to a much greater degree than a thumbstick can provide. Couple that to a far quicker turning circle and the gamepad has no advantage in this area either.

I still think that thumbstick is much better than the WASD. PC FPSs require the use of the 'walk' button as they do not have the level of control provided by the tumbstick. Further more, you only require one thumb to do the function of an entire hand. Thumbstick movement + click = 'A key', 'W/S', 'D', 'shift/crtl'.

Randomer.

DarkJager wrote: »

Nope those settings can be adjusted for a pad as well so it's also down to reaction speed. A **** player is a **** player regardless of what he is using. To think m +kb is without question the bigger advantage seems to be a bit of a superiority complex rather than solid fact.

I can't help but comment on this absolutely jaw dropping post. :eek:

That is literally as ridiculous as getting your back up at someone for saying round wheels are better on cars for racing than square ones.

It simply is just a fact, FPS's were designed to be played with a mouse and kb in the first place. There is no debate here. A mouse and KB is....WITH OUT QUESTION an advantage over a pad for FPS games.

I actually cannot believe anyone could say otherwise, but then again, people such as these guys exist so I should not be that shocked really.

Lastly :

DarkJager wrote: »

I'd love a chance to prove my theory but as has been said already, there aren't many games allowing cross platform play to do it.

I already told you what you can do. Plug in your 360/ps3 controller into your PC and take on people in quake 3 online and prove us all wrong. We'd all love to see it.

CORaven wrote: »

It is a pity they dropped this as there are more genres than just shooters.
I would have liked to have the option of playing some racing or beat-em-ups against some PC friends. Even a RTS could potentially work on a console and be on near equal level to a PC player [tweak a Halo Wars/C&C3:KW hybrid style control system].

Thank you, great point. These threads always talk about FPS games but really theres tones of genres out there that would easily work brilliantly cross platform. Tis a shame really.

Magill wrote: »

Not gonna lie.... i reckon i'd whoop the average PC gamer in blops tbh... using a PS3 pad (Obviously i'd need the aim assist).

Hahahahahaaha.

Seriously though, on the point of experienced gamer with a pad v average gamer with m/kb in the same game. If the players we are talking about are truly average as in - they know the game and how to play it - they are just not very skilled at it. Then I would still have to disagree , the pad player, skilled or not is still at a massive disadvantage and will struggle.

However if the m/kb guys are totally new to the game ie complete noobs then yes the pad player should come out on top knowing all the tricks and what not with the maps and weapons.

Retr0gamer

CORaven wrote: »

I still think that thumbstick is much better than the WASD. PC FPSs require the use of the 'walk' button as they do not have the level of control provided by the tumbstick. Further more, you only require one thumb to do the function of an entire hand. Thumbstick movement + click = 'A key', 'W/S', 'D', 'shift/crtl'.

How often can you honestly say you have needed to use the analogue movement speed during an FPS and weren't pushing the stick to its limits at all times? Even the analogue direction the stick provides is handled by the combination of keyboard and mouse and is better on keyboard and mous due to the increased accuracy and speed of a truly analogue controller like a mouse and not the fake analogue of a thumbstick.

I actually prefer the walk/run toggle switch. The only FPS game I've needed it in was Thief and I would have been pretty annoyed if I was using a thumbstick to control my speed since the throw is so short it's hard to judge if you are about to go over the walk/run threshold level.

As for using more than one finger to control WASD, i'd much prefer that to the alternative which is taking my finger completely off the thumbstick if I want to reload, use, jump or other actions mapped to the face buttons. The beauty of WASD is that these actions are all bound in close proximity to the WASD keys so there's little delay and you'vemore control. You don't see good typists typing with the one finger?

Magill

Randomer. wrote: »

Hahahahahaaha.

Seriously though, on the point of experienced gamer with a pad v average gamer with m/kb in the same game. If the players we are talking about are truly average as in - they know the game and how to play it - they are just not very skilled at it. Then I would still have to disagree , the pad player, skilled or not is still at a massive disadvantage and will struggle.

However if the m/kb guys are totally new to the game ie complete noobs then yes the pad player should come out on top knowing all the tricks and what not with the maps and weapons.

How often do you play on console ? Just curious. Im sure you'll come back and say your an absolute beast at CoD on ze xbox tho. I seriously think some of you guys are just completely ignorant and probably haven't put any amount of time into console shooters.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fB5sWtlDYV4

If you have time watch it all, or just skip half way through i guess.

Movement and aimwise the average public PC player is FAR worse than that in terms of both movement AND aiming... but mostly the average gamer in general is stupid and is easy to outplay.

Heres another video from a cod "commentator", this is one of his first games on PC having played on xbox since CoD4 was released... his aim and movement is HORRIBLE... yet he still manages to come second in the server with a score of 62-9...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WqhG6cHW0kE

Im not saying i could go onto quake and dominate the average quake player but CoD.... yeah.. i think i could do pretty well in an average lobby.