London Riots

digme

KeithAFC wrote: »

You serious?

why wouldn't i be?

southsiderosie

mike65 wrote: »

Swarming phenomena is almost impossible to curtail quickly. Short of shooting them.

Which is why I am amazed that they are not imposing curfews. I would bet dollars to donuts that at least half of those who are running amok are minors too.

V_Moth

AlekSmart wrote: »

Just to ensure clarity of thought here,could the OP elaborate on this particular element of the thread ?

This thread is now about ham.

Dirk Gently

AlekSmart wrote: »

Just to ensure clarity of thought here,could the OP elaborate on this particular element of the thread ?

picture from the dublin riot of a guy with some denny sliced ham. not a reference to anything else I dont think.

ben.schlomo

V_Moth wrote: »

Congratulations! You win worst post of the evening!

Think you need to go out and get yourself a sarcasm detector before your head explodes.

Fluffybums

As adequately illustrated on this thread; the police cannot win, most of the louts appear to school kids and of a variety races, colours and creeds, if they go in they will be accused of being racist/beating up children/lacking understanding etc. They take a more softly, softly approach they are incompetent.
Greater London covers an area of 602 sq.miles with a population of nearly 8 million, the Met consists of about 37,000 officers (including specials). With the best will in the world, they are overwhelmed.

LeixlipRed

walshb wrote: »

You are having a ****ing laugh, right? The single most important aspect of any civilised society is law and order; without it chaos rules. Police enforce law and order, and only then do we survive and move on and live and prosper.

What has one million years ago got to do with today, yesterday or the day before?

Everything. For the majority of the timeline of human development there was no police. Did the world end without law and order? No. Who elects police officers to protect the law? What community chooses those who "protect" them? The police have only one concern, following the instructions of their political masters, those people are lobbied directly by big business, corporate interests, etc, and it's they who dictate what the police say or do. Have you been following the NOTW scandal? Don't be so bloody naive. People is what society and community is about, not some twat in a stab proof vest hassling people about unpaid parking fines.

V_Moth

ben.schlomo wrote: »

sarcasm detector explodes.

Oh, that's a real useful invention...

digme

Time for the residents to kick ass :mad:

ben.schlomo

LeixlipRed wrote: »

Everything. For the majority of the timeline of human development there was no police. Did the world end without law and order? No. Who elects police officers to protect the law? What community chooses those who "protect" them? The police have only one concern, following the instructions of their political masters, those people are lobbied directly by big business, corporate interests, etc, and it's they who dictate what the police say or do. Have you been following the NOTW scandal? Don't be so bloody naive. People is what society and community is about, not some twat in a stab proof vest hassling people about unpaid parking fines.[/QUOTE]
Pay your fines and none of this happens

FreudianSlippers

OhNoYouDidn't wrote: »

Anyway, one thing we can all agree on, its not a proper riot until we see some sliced ham.

bwahahahahahahajhahahaha

AlekSmart wrote: »

Just to ensure clarity of thought here,could the OP elaborate on this particular element of the thread ?

southsiderosie

LeixlipRed wrote: »

Everything. For the majority of the timeline of human development there was no police. Did the world end without law and order? No. Who elects police officers to protect the law? What community chooses those who "protect" them? The police have only one concern, following the instructions of their political masters, those people are lobbied directly by big business, corporate interests, etc, and it's they who dictate what the police say or do. Have you been following the NOTW scandal? Don't be so bloody naive. People is what society and community is about, not some twat in a stab proof vest hassling people about unpaid parking fines.

But there have always been security forces who acted in the interests of the local ruler or ruling organization, even before the advent of the state or modern policing. Security has always been the most primary function of a human collective; to reference Hobbes, without it, it is impossible to engage in productive activities.

cancercowboy

The rioters are truly scum. Make no mistake, they are not rioting for any reason other than a sick enjoyment of violence. The only excuse they can use relates to the shooting of a drug dealer and widely-known gangster who allegedly shot at the police before being taken down.

This comes down to a bunch of young people in the UK enjoying violence and suddenly getting a chance to do it on a bigger scale. They are a blight on this country and everyone knows it.

Again, I just want to reiterate, these guys aren't protesting and this isn't a political movement. It's mindless violence for no reason at all.

I feel this sums up the feelings of most people in the UK/London:

"The Youth of the Middle East rise up for basic freedoms.The Youth of London rise up for a HD ready 42" Plasma TV"

Dirk Gently

kicking off in liverpool now.

busyliving

This lad on BBC is talking out his arse...

I've no job, but I don't go out and break the law, because I'm not scum.

Scotty #

cancercowboy wrote: »

The rioters are truly scum. Make no mistake, they are not rioting for any reason other than a sick enjoyment of violence. The only excuse they can use relates to the shooting of a drug dealer and widely-known gangster who allegedly shot at the police before being taken down.

This comes down to a bunch of young people in the UK enjoying violence and suddenly getting a chance to do it on a bigger scale. They are a blight on this country and everyone knows it.

Again, I just want to reiterate, these guys aren't protesting and this isn't a political movement. It's mindless violence for no reason at all.

I feel this sums up the feelings of most people in the UK/London:

"The Youth of the Middle East rise up for basic freedoms.The Youth of London rise up for a HD ready 42" Plasma TV"

Couldn't agree with you more. There is absolutely nothing political about what is happening.

JOB93

cancercowboy wrote: »

The rioters are truly scum. Make no mistake, they are not rioting for any reason other than a sick enjoyment of violence. The only excuse they can use relates to the shooting of a drug dealer and widely-known gangster who allegedly shot at the police before being taken down.

This comes down to a bunch of young people in the UK enjoying violence and suddenly getting a chance to do it on a bigger scale. They are a blight on this country and everyone knows it.

Again, I just want to reiterate, these guys aren't protesting and this isn't a political movement. It's mindless violence for no reason at all.

I feel this sums up the feelings of most people in the UK/London:

"The Youth of the Middle East rise up for basic freedoms.The Youth of London rise up for a HD ready 42" Plasma TV"

We've already established that he did not shoot at police... they admitted it.

Frynge

Possibly already suggested but rubber bullets

Dirk Gently

Dirk Gently wrote: »

kicking off in liverpool now.

Police station in Birmingham on fire (sorry if posted already).

And someone linked me to a photo of disturbances in Bristol.

southsiderosie

travelguru wrote: »

It might of been but it was still lobbied by whoever had the most gold, sheep or cows.

And you see no benefits to this system whatsoever to those who do not own cows or gold?

Without a public policing system, rich people would be fine - they can buy their own security. This is the case in many developing countries. Everyone else is on their own.

The Met have an atrocious track record, and I cannot think of how they could have possible mismanaged the current situation more than they have, but the most likely victims of crime tend to the the ones who can least afford to take their own security measures, so I think the idea that the existence of a police force is inherently repressive or only serves to benefit the wealthy is ridiculous.

Liam Byrne

Why can't they power-hose the scum into the Thames?

And are there any indications of how many thugs are actually involved? Could the people of London not come together with the backing of the police and reclaim their city?

AlekSmart

Dirk Gently wrote: »

picture from the dublin riot of a guy with some denny sliced ham. not a reference to anything else I dont think.

AAh good...sometimes ambiguity can be telling....

http://newsimg.bbc.co.uk/media/images/40879000/jpg/_40879156_blakelockoveralls300pa.jpg

It's interesting that the locations remain resonant to people of a certain vintage....

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Murder_of_Pc_Keith_Blakelock

From that Wiki entry........

The unit reached the bottom of the staircase, but at some point shortly after that Blakelock tripped and fell. Immediately he was surrounded by balaclava-wearing rioters armed with sticks, knives and machetes. A senior firefighter, Trevor Statford, witnessed the attack: "He just stumbled and went down and they were upon him. It was just mob hysteria. ... There were about 50 people on him. A court heard that Blakelock suffered 42 stabbing or cutting wounds to his head, neck, back, arms, and leg, including a six-inch gash across his right cheek that ran from his lip to the back of his neck. A six-inch-long knife was buried in his neck up to the hilt.

A fellow officer tried to run to his aid, but was felled by a blow to the face which broke his jaw, leaving him unconscious. Sergeant Pengelly and two constables ran at the mob, forcing them away. The chief superintendent in charge of the operation and another officer helped Blakelock to his feet, but he fell again shortly afterwards and died. Blakelock's helmet was never recovered. Terry Lloyd reported for ITN news a few days later:

... his attackers were trying to decapitate him. Witnesses say that having wrenched his riot helmet from him, his attackers then repeatedly stabbed him in the body, and continuously hacked away at his neck. PC Blakelock lost several fingers as he tried to defend himself before the attackers fled, as more police, firemen, and ambulance men moved in to try and save him. Tonight Scotland Yard confirmed that the injuries were so grievous that it did appear the men were trying to behead the officer.

Another officer, PC Richard Coombes, was seriously injured as he tried to help Blakelock, and police regard the attack on him as attempted murder. He sustained a five-inch-long cut on his face, a broken upper jaw, and his lower jaw was smashed. In 2004 he said he continued to suffer impaired hearing and eyesight, frequent epileptic fits, emotional trauma, poor short-term memory and low concentration levels.

At some point in proceedings such as we are witnessing in today's London it may be worthwhile to take a step-back and think about those Robocop figures in Body Armour and Riot Helmets and maybe ask a question or two of ourselves regarding what sort of society will satisfy our needs to live in peace,whilst still having structured protection against elements of society who would do us harm.....

Then again,maybe it is all just one big game to many people ?

Alopex

interesting this is spreading to multiple cities. it shows people can be easily mobilised if the will is there.

FreudianSlippers

Yeah, stick it to the man..



:rolleyes:



This riot has no meaning!



Those are people's cars. People that did nothing to these rioters.

ben.schlomo

travelguru wrote: »

Actually i would rather the system "an eye for an eye, a tooth for a tooth".
That way when my bike gets stolen and the police can't do **** about it because there is no money in it for the government, i just go and steal someone else's bike, then they steal someone else's bike and it keeps going until eventually my bike is stolen back.
You need to wake up and realise that police forces in any county will do nothing that helps you! They will just make money for their employers, just like any other business!

Im sorry now but you are completely full of rubbish.

markfla

round them up into a nearby stadium and shoot the lot of them....they are of no obvious benefit to society....

[MOD]3 day ban for mindless incitement to violence.[/MOD]

Scotty #

Liam Byrne wrote: »

Why can't they power-hose the scum into the Thames?

And are there any indications of how many thugs are actually involved? Could the people of London not come together with the backing of the police and reclaim their city?

Water canons are not licensed for use in mainland uk unless a state of emergency is declared.

RMD

travelguru wrote: »

Actually i would rather the system "an eye for an eye, a tooth for a tooth".
That way when my bike gets stolen and the police can't do **** about it because there is no money in it for the government, i just go and steal someone else's bike, then they steal someone else's bike and it keeps going until eventually my bike is stolen back.
You need to wake up and realise that police forces in any county will do nothing that helps you! They will just make money for their employers, just like any other business!

I'm sorry, but that's bollox. My car was stolen 4 days ago, does that entitle me to go out and steal someone else's car since mine was stolen? No, it doesn't, it never will and to think it does, is pure and utter bullshít.

And guess what, the Garda have been helpful throughout.

Yahew

ben.schlomo wrote: »

What has that do with little junior scum smashing windows, burning cars, breaking into peoples houses etc etc??????

Nothing. Typical use of irrelevant whataboutary. Isnt the Politics forum supposed to be above this kind of nonsense?

V_Moth

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jR-A4QFHZBA

What? Too soon?

sink

travelguru wrote: »

Actually i would rather the system "an eye for an eye, a tooth for a tooth".
That way when my bike gets stolen and the police can't do **** about it because there is no money in it for the government, i just go and steal someone else's bike, then they steal someone else's bike and it keeps going until eventually my bike is stolen back.
You need to wake up and realise that police forces in any county will do nothing that helps you! They will just make money for their employers, just like any other business!

Really I don't know how to reply to that other than, lol.

JOB93

From BBC:
Cars were set on fire in Lewisham
A bus and shop were set alight in Peckham
Several fires broke out in Croydon, including one at a large furniture shop which spread to neighbouring buildings and tram lines
In Hackney 200 riot officers with dogs and mounted police were located around Mare Street where police cars were damaged
Looters raided a Debenhams store and a row of shops in Lavender Hill in Clapham
In Birmingham, police said officers had made 87 arrests, including six juveniles, on Monday evening
Buses were diverted as the violence spread to Bromley High Street
There were reports of looting of phone shops in Woolwich High Street, in south London, and a torched police car
Shops and restaurants were damaged in Ealing, west London, and there was a fire in Haven Green park opposite Ealing Broadway Tube
Football matches at Charlton and West Ham which were due to be played on Tuesday have been postponed at the request of the police
At Clapham Junction looters stole masks from a fancy dress store to hide their identity

Scotty #

travelguru wrote: »

ben.schlomo wrote: »

Im sorry now but you are completely full of rubbish.

How is it complete rubbish, the police work for a state making money from speeding fines,parking fines, public disorder but rarely catch the rapist or murderer.why? because they cost money to put into jail, yes, it costs the state money.
It's a business, wake up and smell the coffee!

Lol, are you suggesting an garda are profitable? What planet are you from?

Revolution9

It will be a small miracle if no one is killed or severely injured.

Also, the suggestion from a poster that this all could be some crusade against commercialism is the most ridiculous thing I've ever heard. This is just mindless violence coupled with theft, plain and simple.

ben.schlomo

travelguru wrote: »

How is it complete rubbish, the police work for a state making money from speeding fines,parking fines, public disorder but rarely catch the rapist or murderer.why? because they cost money to put into jail, yes, it costs the state money.
It's a business, wake up and smell the coffee!

Why don't you show us the facts on this, you obviously have them i assume?
Dont know why im bothering replying anyway as you dont seem to grasp the situation or have anything relevant or worthwile to say.

Benzino

Scotty # wrote: »

Water canons are not licensed for use in mainland uk unless a state of emergency is declared.

I wonder will they declare state of emergency

Wiki says:

In the United Kingdom, the Monarch, the Privy Council, or the Prime Minister can make emergency regulations under the Civil Contingencies Act 2004 if there is a serious threat to human welfare, the environment, or in case of war or terrorism

JOB93

travelguru wrote: »

How is it complete rubbish, the police work for a state making money from speeding fines,parking fines, public disorder but rarely catch the rapist or murderer.why? because they cost money to put into jail, yes, it costs the state money.
It's a business, wake up and smell the coffee!

Gardai don't hand out parking fines, traffic wardens do.

Revolution9

Someone said earlier what right do we have to call the rioters "scum".

Alex Hudson, a BBC journalist who was beaten up this evening and had his phone stolen as he reported on the riots in east London, tells me that as he finally made his way home a group were on their way to Hackney police station, planning to set it alight.

Scum is too kind a word for some of these people.


*Quoted text taken from the Guardian's live update thingy.

[MOD]"Scum" is also a word you'll find is specifically prohibited in the Charter, for exactly the reasons we see here - it serves to inflame passions and substitutes for thought.[/MOD]

ben.schlomo

Revolution9 wrote: »

Someone said earlier what right do we have to call the rioters "scum".



Scum is too kind a word for some of these people.


*Quoted text taken from the Guardian's live update thingy.

Sky news reporter talking to an elderly woman who had her door kicked in and woke to find a lad dressed in all black in her bedroom. Absolute lowlife dregs of society.

deepertheroots

Scotty # wrote: »

Water canons are not licensed for use in mainland uk unless a state of emergency is declared.

What about sewage-canons? They would scatter promptly with that nasty stuff flying at them.

Damokc

JOB93 wrote: »

Gardai don't hand out parking fines, traffic wardens do.

sorry that just sounds too much like "Guns don't kill people, Rappers do":D

Deregos

It must be absolutely fuucking terrifying for the elderly & people with young families living in these affected areas. Let's prey the authorities can quickly bring this horrific situation under control & put an end to these belligerent little bastards unwaranted rampaging.

Revolution9

Damokc wrote: »

sorry that just sounds too much like "Guns don't kill people, Rappers do":D

:D:D
Genuine laugh out loud moment.

RMD

travelguru wrote: »

It has little to do with my original point though but a nice bit to do with how the gardai did (not) help you.

And yeah, go and steal a bmw or range rover...there are highly skilled people who make a living from doing it.

Why is it so idiotic, is it so idiotic to think that years ago a murderer would be hung(a life for a life)

A life for life is completely different to item for item.

A murderer in my eyes gives away his right to life when he takes that right from someone else.

Yet someone shouldn't lose the possession of their car simply because I have. Your logic is incredibly flawed and ridiculous.

Scofflaw

Please don't respond to abuse with abuse. On this occasion, the posts in question are deleted, but you can wind up banned yourselves. I don't really care who starts it.

Also, travelguru has been permabanned and most of his posts deleted.

moderately,
Scofflaw

Jumpy

Damn it Scoff. I posted when you posted. I acknowledge your warning as read.

FreudianSlippers

Residents told to evacuate homes in Clapham Junction and Croydon :eek:

Jumpy

Ah come on. Shops cop it during riots but surely they wont enter homes.

FreudianSlippers

Jumpy wrote: »

Ah come on. Shops cop it during riots but surely they wont enter homes.

Apparently they are as well as fire risk.

Residents jumping out of burning apartment building:

Damokc

but they're already entering homes.an old woman woke to find a lad standing in black at the end of her bed...another woman said they are after cash..