Organic Farming

Deano7

FarmerDougal wrote: »

Yes you can reseed spray and spread heap of bag manure the year before you start but you must stay in or production for at least 5 years or all payments up until then are pulled back

What grants are available?

FarmerDougal

Deano7 wrote: »

What grants are available?

Per ha payment and 60% cap exp for yf. Buildings and machinery. Comes under tamsii next year. 80k max. Once claimed in org, cannot be claimed for conv

5live

Midlandsman80 wrote: »

Again not being smart but what % of cattle/farms have a vaccination programme other than for fluke etc

So no suckler farms vaccinate against lepto, IBR or BVD to mention just the 3 most common vaccines? 3 vaccines that would be considered standard on dairy farms as a preventative management practice?

just do it

FarmerDougal wrote: »

Per ha payment and 60% cap exp for yf. Buildings and machinery. Comes under tamsii next year. 80k max. Once claimed in org, cannot be claimed for conv

60% for young farmers and 40% for the rest

just do it

Deano7 wrote: »

What grants are available?

As well as the farm development grants in the next purposed 5 year plan you get €250/ha for first 2 years and €170/ha annual payment in subsequent years. That's up from €220 and €110 (I think) in the current scheme.

The RDP states they want to see organic farming increasing from the current 1% to 5%. We're way behind the European average seemingly

just do it

5live wrote: »

So no suckler farms vaccinate against lepto, IBR or BVD to mention just the 3 most common vaccines? 3 vaccines that would be considered standard on dairy farms as a preventative management practice?

You can use any veterinary medicine once you have a letter from your vet to say it's required.

5live

just do it wrote: »

You can use any veterinary medicine once you have a letter from your vet to say it's required.

Ah sound. Its changed from when i was looking at it so. You had to have had a positive test result before you could vaccinate.

Dawggone

I've no idea of organic farming but I know two organic farmers.

Farmer 1 has 1000 acres of land that the animals just roam around all year. Just a few small old buildings for sick animals etc. He has a small old tractor that he uses to make hay and to feed it out during the winter. Big SFP.

Farmer 2 has 240 acres and changed to organic a few years back. Got €15k pa whilst changing over. The farm is now profitable. His biggest problem is the cost of organic feed but now he is growing his own. The organic beef operation is easy as he is allowed to use antibiotics etc. The organic tillage is a nightmare as chemicals are not allowed.


Horses for courses I suppose.

just do it

5live wrote: »

Ah sound. Its changed from when i was looking at it so. You had to have had a positive test result before you could vaccinate.

Hmm, i thought that applied to all vet meds but maybe you're right. However in an extensive system would you be as concerned about vaccines? I don't currently and would expect to be less inclined should i convert .

5live

just do it wrote: »

Hmm, i thought that applied to all vet meds but maybe you're right. However in an extensive system would you be as concerned about vaccines? I don't currently and would expect to be less inclined should i convert .

I think you should be even more concerned about vaccination in an organic system over a conventional system.

If an animal gets sick under normal management you can sell it as normal once you follow the withdrawl periods.

If an animal gets sick under an organic management, and require an animal remedy, they most likely will have to be sold as a normal animal and lose the premium that makes the organic system more profitable.

If you do think about converting to organic, do your sums on a per hectare basis rather than on a per animal basis. Whatever system you have, you will have a lower stocking rate post conversion. And get your soils up to index 3 before you convert also as the few available P&K sources in organic are more expensive per unit, from what a farm manager on an organic farm tells me.

Midlandsman80

5live wrote: »

So no suckler farms vaccinate against lepto, IBR or BVD to mention just the 3 most common vaccines? 3 vaccines that would be considered standard on dairy farms as a preventative management practice?

I was not saying none do, it's prob a large majority that do but I am still saying there are large numbers of virtually organic cattle being killed with that farmers could get more for if changed system, .
are there any stats of the usage of these vaccines?

Bodacious

5live wrote: »

So no suckler farms vaccinate against lepto, IBR or BVD to mention just the 3 most common vaccines? 3 vaccines that would be considered standard on dairy farms as a preventative management practice?

blackleg covexin 8 is only vaccine I use and some suckler lads near me wouldn't even do that

5live

Midlandsman80 wrote: »

I was not saying none do, it's prob a large majority that do but I am still saying there are large numbers of virtually organic cattle being killed with that farmers could get more for if changed system, .
are there any stats of the usage of these vaccines?

There are more things going on inside the farm gate that farmers can control that would have a huge effect on their incomes, more than changing their complete system would. A small investment in pigtail posts and a bit of polywire followed by a quick run of a topper would have a huge effect on stock growth rates and return than throwing it all out the window for a system that has a small demand and could quickly become oversupplied, similar to what happened 10 years ago in the UK with organic milk.

Bodacious wrote: »

blackleg covexin 8 is only vaccine I use and some suckler lads near me wouldn't even do that

Blackleg and Lepto would be 2 i would consider the bare minimum on every farm with pregnant and young stock, Blackleg for simple cost effectiveness and Lepto for human health as well as stock health.
Tbh, the figure of 83 pregnant suckler cows per 100 calved shouldn't be a big surprise if that line of thinking is very common.

Deano7

5live wrote: »

There are more things going on inside the farm gate that farmers can control that would have a huge effect on their incomes, more than changing their complete system would. A small investment in pigtail posts and a bit of polywire followed by a quick run of a topper would have a huge effect on stock growth rates and return than throwing it all out the window for a system that has a small demand and could quickly become oversupplied, similar to what happened 10 years ago in the UK with organic milk.

Tbh, the figure of 83 pregnant suckler cows per 100 calved shouldn't be a big surprise if that line of thinking is very common.

I think you're right there, 2014 in beef is a typical scenario of what happens when farmers up production. Could u get Lepto from vaccinating cattle?

5live

Deano7 wrote: »

I think you're right there, 2014 in beef is a typical scenario of what happens when farmers up production. Could u get Lepto from vaccinating cattle?

No but you could catch Weils Disease from infected cows as well as rats iirc.

micraX

Was at electric picnic over the weekend, one croud was selling "organic beef burgers" I was on the back helping out someone I know and I seen them washing the lettuce, the lettuce comes from a farm in rush, I know their boxes and prepacks, and has their name on it. They are not organic farmers, and their produce was sold in "organic beef burgers" is this legal?

just do it

There was an article by justin mccarthy a few years ago about a sizable organic beef farm in NI. He'd excellent grassland management. Anyone remember it? Or even better have a link?

Markcheese

micraX wrote: »

Was at electric picnic over the weekend, one croud was selling "organic beef burgers" I was on the back helping out someone I know and I seen them washing the lettuce, the lettuce comes from a farm in rush, I know their boxes and prepacks, and has their name on it. They are not organic farmers, and their produce was sold in "organic beef burgers" is this legal?

Could be a loophole " look the burger( beef) is organic " but the salad/ bun and sauce aren't ... Know of someone doing same in cork and he hasn't been pulled on it .. Its a bit cheeky anyway ...

Kovu

Markcheese wrote: »

Could be a loophole " look the burger( beef) is organic " but the salad/ bun and sauce aren't ... Know of someone doing same in cork and he hasn't been pulled on it .. Its a bit cheeky anyway ...

Was just about to say this. It's stipulating that that the beef is organic, hence it doesn't say 'Organic Burgers'.
I'd nearly bet that the word 'organic' anywhere on that truck was followed by the word beef, legal loophole if so.

Markcheese

if your selling any packaged food items and put the word organic on packaging then it has to be all (or 99%) organic ingredients .

just do it

Example of an animal health plan from one of the organic organisations. For anyone in BTAP, I think this will be part of the next programme as well.

Note blackleg vaccine is one of the examples

Deano7

What machinery will they allow?

micraX

Deano7 wrote: »

What machinery will they allow?

Everything bar sprayers and spreaders and nitrogen boxes I guess.

Markcheese

Anything you like really ... And the tractor can be as big as you want ...