Poachers in ireland

mrxireland

Ive been browesing the anglers forum and honestly never knew that we had a serious poaching problem here in ireland. I knew that people did try and fish without a license but never knew it was so bad with teh nets(if it even is).

TBH i dont really belive it, i think these bailiffs are making more of it just so that their line of work keeps flowing. I have been fishing in donegal,sligo,mayo and mainly the moy for over 30 yrs and never once have i came across anyone with a net ever.

Just interested in hearing peoples honest experiences with poachers with nets. If i ever come across a one , they will be getting a serious boot up the 4rse that theyve ever felt and the net took of them.

I remember fishing in northen ireland back in the late 70s and someone snagged a net with their hook and line but this is as far as i have came across it but never in my time in teh free state have i seen anything like this.

What are the laws on poachers, do they get jailed if they are ever caught or just a slap on the wrist like most other crimes today.

Gran Hermano

Several years back whilst coarse fishing on the canal on the Dublin/Kildare border I personally witnessed groups of Eastern-Europeans using nets and cleaning out stretches of water of all coarse species.

mrxireland

Gran Hermano wrote: »

Several years back whilst coarse fishing on the canal on the Dublin/Kildare border I personally witnessed groups of Eastern-Europeans using nets and cleaning out stretches of water of all coarse species.

What kind of nets ,liek a landing net or one used at sea?

Gran Hermano

mrxireland wrote: »

What kind of nets ,liek a landing net or one used at sea?

Like what you would use at sea. A gang of them on each side of the canal with the net on a rope and they would 'trawl' it up and down a stretch. Also witnessed how a lack of catch and release decimated the pike population there.
If the poaching around there has decreased I can only surmise that it is due to there being nothing left to poach.

concur4u?

mrxireland wrote: »

What kind of nets ,liek a landing net or one used at sea?

theres differant types for river and the shoreline i came accross 1 on the shore a few years back it was about 40 ft long with a lead rope on the bottom and floats on the top left out in to the surf and yes i think there has been custodail sentences tru the years

damagegt

I started fishing when I was about 12 and starting heading to the river on my own a year later.In my local river in the town I grew up in there wasn't a day went by when I was on the river that I didn't see some guy sticking fish with large trebles or nets or fish traps.The river wasn't big but holds good fish.The older I got the more this pissed me off.I used to camp and fish the river at night and you could hear the fish caught in the nets.Early in the mornings Id head off and cut the nets and brake the traps.Not once ever in the many years I fished the river did I see a bailiff.Never once

I returned to the river this year to show my son where I started fishing.We were walk maybe 10-15 minutes and there in the same place they were 10 years ago.2 fish traps.Nothing is been done to stop this.I was furious.The river is ruined because some prat thinks hes great because he can lay a net across a 15ft river .It never changes.The town its self is pretty bad.I was told of a guy that had taken 18 bass from the estuary the night before.Its the mentality of the people that are doing the poaching,they don't give a ****.

Rant over.

skipz

Me and a mate were pike fishing in a north east lake in December 2 year ago and witness 2 FN's checking nets they had set under water.
1 of them sat in a blow up boat you'd see in Spain by the pool and the other fecker was in a wetsuit in the water pulling up long lines or a net.
We confronted them and got the big "finger" so rang up the local bailiff who was down in 15mins but too late.

Every time we fish in the Carrickmacross area we always with out fail meet one or two of the bailiffs. They do a great job in the carrick area and are always on hand if you ring them.
Iam 100% certain that the fishing is improving in the area due to there work.

8k2q1gfcz9s5d4

some places have not been hit too bad, other places have been wiped out. There has been massive damage to both game and coarse stocks over the last 10 years, however, I feel that some of the coarse lakes/rivers/canals have been hit the worst, as you dont need a licence (in most fisheries) to fish for them, so you hardly ever see a bailiff.
I have never seen a nets, or a poacher in action, this is because 90% of my fishing is done in spots that are very remote, and difficult to get to.

The main issue I have is this: My local river is the river suck in ballyforan Co Roscommon, There is a platform for launching boats onto the river. At weekends this place is full of anglers, yet there is no sign displaying the angling regulations, or the penalties of breach of regulations. Poachers are not anglers, so why assume they know the penalties?

interesting links
http://www.midlandangling.com/countrywide/press-release/victory-in-coarse-fish-poaching-cases-in-virginia-co-cavan
http://poaching.wordpress.com/category/courts/
http://www.anglocelt.ie/news/roundup/articles/2011/06/08/4004834-poaching-rife-on-cavan-and-monaghan-lakes/

EDIT: there are bailiffs for coarse fisheries, and I am aware that in my local river they are checking for licences more

coolwings

What can I say guys?
I say this as a long time waterkeeper warrant holder:
When you stand up to them you get your fishing back....

It is a life decision, with risks and rewards.
The poachers made that decision, are standing up to you right now.
They have the rewards that should be yours....

This is not necessarily advocating violence, though desperate or greedy poachers will occasionaly (rarely because they know the legal cost of bringing those crimes into the deal) rise to it. They ALL threaten it. They always do.
It is advocating sitting down with like minded anglers and neighbours, and finding ways to "increase the cost" to the poachers, so their reward is not worth the hassle.
There are many ways to raise the price of their ill gotten gains (without becoming a lawbreaker yourself). Look at the problems people have facing drug pushers, and when it gets bad, they still do it. Poachers are 90% bluff type bullies who all threaten. And when nobody stands up, they have free run of YOUR fishery.

Life is either a daring confrontation of risk, or it is getting what the big boys leave behind after they have taken all they want.
This applies on every scale, from your river bank where you can win, to our banker-politician-economy where more people need to wake up first before we can do battle, win and get change.

damagegt

I know half the people doing this and they dont give a ****.There scumbags and nasty scumbags at that.Its not my job to sort this out.I reported and reported these people for years and nothing was every done.All I got because i was only 17,18,19 at the time was"well look in to it"We cant do anything unless we catch them in the act"


Im from Dungarvan in Waterford.This town has some of Ireland's best bass fishing.Some see it as one of Europe's best like Henry Gibley .Heres he recent trip to Ireland including a week in dungarvan http://www.henry-gilbey.com/fishing_pictures/ireland_june_2011_bass_fishing.html.

And these people can get away with such ease with something that could surly bring great tourism and profit to the town.

I dont fish there anymore due to this.I moved to Kinsale last year and on my first trip out in May I met the bailiff.He noticed us,others had noticed us and rang him.Because they were worried and he responded they way it should be.

Zzippy

mrxireland wrote: »

Ive been browesing the anglers forum and honestly never knew that we had a serious poaching problem here in ireland. I knew that people did try and fish without a license but never knew it was so bad with teh nets(if it even is).

TBH i dont really belive it, i think these bailiffs are making more of it just so that their line of work keeps flowing. I have been fishing in donegal,sligo,mayo and mainly the moy for over 30 yrs and never once have i came across anyone with a net ever.

Just interested in hearing peoples honest experiences with poachers with nets. If i ever come across a one , they will be getting a serious boot up the 4rse that theyve ever felt and the net took of them.

I remember fishing in northen ireland back in the late 70s and someone snagged a net with their hook and line but this is as far as i have came across it but never in my time in teh free state have i seen anything like this.

What are the laws on poachers, do they get jailed if they are ever caught or just a slap on the wrist like most other crimes today.

Don't believe it all you want, but netting is going on every day, and has gotten a lot worse since the recession started to bite, lots of guys are out of work and have the free time to do it. Fishery officers numbers have been reduced a lot in the last 3 years, so fewer officers have to deal with increased poaching. If there was little poaching going on, you would still need fishery officers to patrol the rivers as a deterrent, so there is no incentive to be making up stories about nets, but if you really want you can visit any IFI office and I'm sure they will be able to show you plenty of nets they have seized.

BTW, where is this "free state" you mention??

karlram

was at the hotel just outside virginia yesterday and could clearly see people out in a boat settin nets not far from shore and not hiding what they were doing. i got no answer from the 24 hour balifff number and the gaurds told me to keep trying them:mad: i thought there was a lake watch thing in place in cavan but seems to be just noise to try prevent poaching in the area

8k2q1gfcz9s5d4

damagegt wrote: »

All I got because i was only 17,18,19 at the time was"well look in to it"We cant do anything unless we catch them in the act"

:rolleyes:

damagegt wrote: »

And these people can get away with such ease with something that could surly bring great tourism and profit to the town.

the fisheries boards have never downgraded the fishing ratings in the areas that have been affected, but when the likes of Matt Hayes tells the real picture on TV, tourism from the UK is going to be affected.

damagegt

What exactly are you rolling your eyes at ?

8k2q1gfcz9s5d4

damagegt wrote: »

What exactly are you rolling your eyes at ?

the fisheries board needing to catch them in the act, if they called out they actually had a chance of doing it

Bizzum

karlram wrote: »

was at the hotel just outside virginia yesterday and could clearly see people out in a boat settin nets not far from shore and not hiding what they were doing. i got no answer from the 24 hour balifff number and the gaurds told me to keep trying them:mad: i thought there was a lake watch thing in place in cavan but seems to be just noise to try prevent poaching in the area

There is currently a survey taking place on Ramor. That is what you saw.
The Fishery officers that patrol Ramor are very well known, and their mobile numbers are freely available. Any of the regular anglers there would have seen the high fishery presence there over the years, even overnight.
If anybody cares to PM me I will pass on the mobile numbers.

coolwings

Randall Huge Speckle wrote: »

the fisheries board needing to catch them in the act, if they called out they actually had a chance of doing it

If you are a credible witness, they do not need to catch them. You saw it. You make a signed statement. They can take the court case and pay the legal costs, and call you as their witness.
You testify as a witness for the board. End of story.
Take clear photos next time to back up your testimony.

DBB

Bizzum wrote: »

karlram wrote: »

was at the hotel just outside virginia yesterday and could clearly see people out in a boat settin nets not far from shore and not hiding what they were doing.

There is currently a survey taking place on Ramor. That is what you saw

How easy it is for rumours to get started!
When people are seen in broad daylight, not hiding what they're doing, it might be helpful to have a spin around to look for logoed vehicles which might explain what you have seen, rather than jumping to conclusions.
There are many scientific surveys being carried out in lakes and rivers across Ireland especially in the summer months, so when you see such obvious activity taking place, there's a fair chance this is what you've seen.

captainwang

mrxireland wrote: »

TBH i dont really belive it, i think these bailiffs are making more of it just so that their line of work keeps flowing. I have been fishing in donegal,sligo,mayo and mainly the moy for over 30 yrs and never once have i came across anyone with a net ever.

Already this year Iv seen nets been set several times in Mayo rivers twice in broad daylight in the estuary. One former prolific river has been hit particularly badly and has been closed to salmon and sea trout for about 5 years now. Bailiffs have a hard time catching them in the act and cant patrol every river 24/7. They have come close to catching those responsible several times hopefully this year is the year that they do. These guys make a lot of money from this and there is plenty people willing to buy the fish from them, these people are just as bad as the poachers IMO.

In fairness you're not going to see too many guys netting on the Moy, you just wont get away with it there, remember a few years back a few guys trying to net the Ridgepool at 3am, bailiffs were on them in minutes, stretches of the river are under CCTV.

And yes I have reported poaching whenever I see it.

damagegt

The problem with the river I refer to is that its small and they don't think anything of it.I can tell you now its (was) full of sea trout.But the river might not be 5ft across in places.Its not a main river so why would they spend time and money monitoring it.Its the Collagan river in Dungarvan

slowburner

coolwings wrote: »

If you are a credible witness, they do not need to catch them. You saw it. You make a signed statement. They can take the court case and pay the legal costs, and call you as their witness.
You testify as a witness for the board. End of story.
Take clear photos next time to back up your testimony.

I am not sure this is correct.
Simply witnessing the act is insufficient grounds for bringing a case to court.
There has to be material proof of the offence, a net or strokehaul for example. These are required in court to prove that the offence occurred.

If it were the case that any person could bring a case to court simply by witnessing an offence, then the entire legal system would be in chaos.
This would open the door to spurious and or vindictive claims - any person could turn around and say "I saw Joe Bloggs" netting the Ridge pool last night" - just because they don't like Joe Bloggs and want to make his life a misery.
The courts would be full of cases like that making real law an impossibility.

The unique thing about a fisheries offence is that it differs from burglary, for example.
In the crime of burglary, there is evidence of the break in and missing property. The crime is reported, investigated and evidence gathered (including witness statements).
In a fisheries offence, nobody knows how many fish were there in the first place (the missing property) nor can evidence of the crime remain in the water (the break in).
So in order to prove the offence there must be material evidence of the offence having been committed. In fisheries law this means that the illegal engine (net, stokehaul, trap etc.) is required to be produced in court.

Taking photos would be very helpful indeed, especially to the local fisheries protection staff or Gardai - if you can do it safely and legally.

coolwings

My point was that independent witnesses can serve to fill a hole in the apprehension of poachers.
If surveillance of a water, or many waters, is prohibitively expensive and impossible for IFI, then this can be done by local club members on a voluntary basis.
The key element is that when the poachers turn up, they are allowed to commit the offence unhindered, under surveillance, and the fishery officers are contacted while the offence is occurring.
When the baliffs/law arrive they may catch the poachers red handed, but if not, there is a vehicle with half the story inside, and witnesses to connect the contents to the offence.
The case can be brought by the authorities which indemnifies the witnesses.
It all depends on good relations between the IFI officers, and the locals willing to assist, credibility, and willingness to cooperate.

Many complain, but not many anglers say to the bailiffs "What can I do for you to make your work more effective?".

coolwings

My point was that independent witnesses can serve to fill a hole in the apprehension of poachers.
If surveillance of a water, or many waters, is prohibitively expensive and impossible for IFI, then this can be done by local club members on a voluntary basis.
The key element is that when the poachers turn up, they are allowed to commit the offence unhindered, under surveillance, and the fishery officers are contacted while the offence is occurring.
When the bailiffs/law arrive they may catch the poachers red handed, but if not, there is a vehicle with poachers fish and hardware inside, and the witnesses statements and photographic record to connect the contents to the offence.
The case can be brought by the authorities which indemnifies the witnesses.

It all hinges upon good relations between the IFI officers, and the locals willing to assist, credibility, and willingness to cooperate.

Many complain, but not many anglers say to the bailiffs "What can I do for you to make your work more effective?" and the best law officers always have had many pairs of eyes working for them and a willingness to use them by reacting quickly to reports.

slowburner

coolwings wrote: »

My point was that independent witnesses can serve to fill a hole in the apprehension of poachers.
If surveillance of a water, or many waters, is prohibitively expensive and impossible for IFI, then this can be done by local club members on a voluntary basis.
The key element is that when the poachers turn up, they are allowed to commit the offence unhindered, under surveillance, and the fishery officers are contacted while the offence is occurring.
When the baliffs/law arrive they may catch the poachers red handed, but if not, there is a vehicle with half the story inside, and witnesses to connect the contents to the offence.
The case can be brought by the authorities which indemnifies the witnesses.
It all depends on good relations between the IFI officers, and the locals willing to assist, credibility, and willingness to cooperate.

Many complain, but not many anglers say to the bailiffs "What can I do for you to make your work more effective?".

For sure, anglers can be a great help in providing information to fisheries officers.
I don't think anglers will achieve much by reporting fisheries offences to bailiffs - bailiffs work on behalf of the county sheriff in the recovery of property in cases of bad debt.

ring 20

coolwings your not allowed call them baliffs, hurts their feelings!!

Bizzum

damagegt wrote: »

The problem with the river I refer to is that its small and they don't think anything of it.I can tell you now its (was) full of sea trout.But the river might not be 5ft across in places.Its not a main river so why would they spend time and money monitoring it.Its the Collagan river in Dungarvan

The size of a river should have little to do with it.
If the fisheries service is getting reports of illegal activity, they can react.
If no reports are coming in, priorities may lie elsewhere.
My advice to all would be get to know your local officers, get their mobile numbers, and don't be shy about ringing.

pheasant tail

im from cavan and im fishing for as long as i can remember,its a discrace whats happened some of the lakes and rivers,small lakes especially the populations hve been decimated,netting a massive problem especially in monaghan,the fisheries are coming down hard on these foriegners but they cant do it without people helping and reporting,i rememeber i waited all night at aa lake after i found set lines just too get a number plate!
Unfort these poachers are moving to small quiet places where they would get away with more or even renting boats and going down the erne where they can do what they want,its just a discrace and im sick of them,if your fishing long enough you can see the result of this behaviour first hand

damagegt

Bizzum wrote: »

The size of a river should have little to do with it.
If the fisheries service is getting reports of illegal activity, they can react.
If no reports are coming in, priorities may lie elsewhere.
My advice to all would be get to know your local officers, get their mobile numbers, and don't be shy about ringing.

Well then its just not been monitored.If I'm now living 90 miles away and nearly ten years have pasted and I'm still hearing about what going on there then there cant be that much been done.

mrxireland

captainwang wrote: »

Already this year Iv seen nets been set several times in Mayo rivers twice in broad daylight in the estuary. One former prolific river has been hit particularly badly and has been closed to salmon and sea trout for about 5 years now. Bailiffs have a hard time catching them in the act and cant patrol every river 24/7. They have come close to catching those responsible several times hopefully this year is the year that they do. These guys make a lot of money from this and there is plenty people willing to buy the fish from them, these people are just as bad as the poachers IMO.

In fairness you're not going to see too many guys netting on the Moy, you just wont get away with it there, remember a few years back a few guys trying to net the Ridgepool at 3am, bailiffs were on them in minutes, stretches of the river are under CCTV.

And yes I have reported poaching whenever I see it.

I dont think anyone would be stupid enough to net the moy, i would guess its the most patroled river in ireland. Ive fished there for many years and more often than not i get asked for my permit and license, even from the same guys who asked me just a few weeks back. Ive seen bailiffs and club members all over the water so dont think anyone would get away with it there. Havbe never heard anyone getting caught on teh moy apart form FN who tried to net the ridge pool.

There was this guy who tried to chance his arm with a few of my nephews last year while they were camping beside the moy. Some local came over pretending to be a bailiff and asked for their permit/license but the lads left them in the car. He said that if they give him 100euro then they could camp there all weekend and fish that stretch and if anyone asks then just to say his name and theyll be ok. They were about to hand over the 100euro between the 6 of them only for the guy who owned the field to come over, the other guy soon disappered.

FTA69

damagegt wrote: »

The problem with the river I refer to is that its small and they don't think anything of it.I can tell you now its (was) full of sea trout.But the river might not be 5ft across in places.Its not a main river so why would they spend time and money monitoring it.Its the Collagan river in Dungarvan

I went to school in Dungarvan and poaching on the Colligan is absolutely rife, there were youngfellas in my school who used to net/strokehaul and then actually be brazen and stupid enough to come in the next day and brag about it. That river gets raped by all and sundry.

damagegt

FTA69 wrote: »

I went to school in Dungarvan and poaching on the Colligan is absolutely rife, there were youngfellas in my school who used to net/strokehaul and then actually be brazen and stupid enough to come in the next day and brag about it. That river gets raped by all and sundry.

I fished the river nearly every week some times twice a week and as I said I never once met any bailiff or what ever they liked to be called now but I met literally 100's of people poaching,I broke traps and cut nets,was told to **** off and mind my own business.Its a shame really the river could be a gem if it was maintained.