Court Summons for not producing licence

battries not included

Hi, I was stopped by a garda at checkpoint weeks ago, did not have my licence with me in the car

Guard took my details and asked me to produce insurance & licence at my local station, which I did few days later (before the 10day limit) anyway thought everything okay until today I received a registered letter in the post which contained a court summons for 'failure to produce licence'

What should I do? I called the station I produced the documnets too and they advised it was a matter for the garda who was stopped me??

do i still have to go to court?

Zambia

The station have advised you contact the Garda concerned just do that he will advise you if you should go to court.

ResearchWill

Go to Court, you have been summoned to Court, talk to the Garda before the Court date, but defo go to Court. I have heard of so many people who talk to Garda, who says it ok, but on the day the Garda who is dealing with lots of cases can forget or an other Garda is looking after it, who forgets. Also go to Garda station where you handed in documents they should be recorded in a book.

Also are you sure summons is failure to produce to Garda Station and not failure to produce on demand. Remember it is an offence to drive a car and fail to produce on demand, read the summons carefully.

battries not included

failure to produce there & then a valid licence.

that is what the summons says, i called the garda station where the garda works and another garda told me she is on holidays, she advised me to send in my insurance, copy of licence, & tax to the garda who stopped me and she will take it from then!

seems to be a lot just for not producing a licence on the day, i did bring it to my local station who typed it into their system...

:mad::mad:

ResearchWill

battries not included wrote: »

failure to produce there & then a valid licence.

that is what the summons says, i called the garda station where the garda works and another garda told me she is on holidays, she advised me to send in my insurance, copy of licence, & tax to the garda who stopped me and she will take it from then!

seems to be a lot just for not producing a licence on the day, i did bring it to my local station who typed it into their system...

:mad::mad:

The Guards are doing people for non production on demand. I do not know why the Garda told you to send in insurance etc. You have not been summoned for no insurance. You can try and ask the Garda, but if he has issued the summons doubt it will be much good. In any event turn up to Court on the day. From what I have seen people who turn up for such an offence usually get €50 fine.

Spipov

im just wondering something, i have 2 cars, and i cant see myself walking everywhere with that fat piece of cardboard in my wallet - is it possible to have this in my main car and have a photocopy in my 2nd car? (licence i mean)

ResearchWill

Spipov wrote: »

im just wondering something, i have 2 cars, and i cant see myself walking everywhere with that fat piece of cardboard in my wallet - is it possible to have this in my main car and have a photocopy in my 2nd car? (licence i mean)

To be safe I always carry licence in my wallet, it's not really that fat lol. In saying that it would be a petty Garda who would do you for producing a copy. Also as an aside I would think it is silly to have originals of any id documents in your car, if car is stolen.

TouchingVirus

The principle act is the Road Traffic Act, 1961 and the section is section 40 (Requirement to carry driving licence while driving vehicle.). It was amended in 1994 to make driving with a license a requirement but adds in that a Garda may ask you to produce your driving license within 10 days at a station of your choosing. It was amended again in 2002, but I don't believe the amendments deal with anything appropriate to your situation so here's the 1994 Section 40.

The following section is inserted in the Principal Act in substitution for section 40 of that Act:


“40.—(1) (a) A member of the Garda Síochána may demand, of a person driving in a public place a mechanically propelled vehicle or accompanying pursuant to regulations under this Act the holder of a provisional licence while such holder is driving in a public place a mechanically propelled vehicle, the production to him of a driving licence then having effect and licensing the said person to drive the vehicle, and if the person refuses or fails so to produce the licence there and then, he shall be guilty of an offence.


(b) Where a person of whom the production of a driving licence is demanded under this section refuses or fails to produce the licence there and then, a member of the Garda Síochána may require the person to produce within 10 days after the date of the said requirement the licence in person to a member of the Garda Síochána at a Garda Síochána station to be named by the person at the time of the requirement and, if the person refuses or fails so to produce the licence, he shall be guilty of an offence.


(c) In any proceedings a certificate, purporting to be signed by the member in charge of the Garda Síochána station at which the defendant concerned was required, pursuant to paragraph (b), to produce the driving licence, stating that the defendant did not, within 10 days after the day on which the production was required, produce a driving licence in accordance with the said paragraph (b) shall, without proof of the signature of the person purporting to sign the certificate or that he was the member in charge of the Garda Síochána station, be evidence, until the contrary is shown, of the facts stated in the certificate.


(d) Where any person is required to produce a driving licence at a Garda Síochána station and the person produces the licence within 10 days after the day on which the production was required, the member in charge of the Garda Síochána station shall issue a certificate stating that the licence was so produced and such certificate shall be evidence of the facts stated in the certificate.


(2) Where a person of whom the production of a driving licence is demanded or required under this section produces the licence in accordance with the demand or requirement, but refuses or fails to permit the member of the Garda Síochána to whom it is produced to read the licence, he shall be guilty of an offence.


(3) Where a person of whom the production of a driving licence is demanded or required under this section refuses or fails so to produce the licence or produces the licence but refuses or fails to permit the member of the Garda Síochána to whom it is produced to read the licence, the member may demand of the person his name and address and, if the person refuses or fails to give to the member his name and address or gives to the member a name or address which is false or misleading, he shall be guilty of an offence.


(4) A member of the Garda Síochána may arrest without warrant—


(a) a person who pursuant to this section produces a driving licence to the member but refuses or fails to permit the member to read it, or


(b) a person who, when his name and address is lawfully demanded of him by the member under this section, refuses or fails to give to the member his name and address or gives to the member a name or address which the member reasonably believes to be false.


(5) A person who, when the production of a driving licence is demanded or required of him under this section, does not produce the licence because he is not the holder of a driving licence shall be deemed to fail to produce his driving licence within the meaning of subsection (1) of this section.”.

It says that you should have received a certificate of production from the Garda station in question. If you did not receive a certificate of production, but did produce within the 10 days then you should go to the place you produced, and formally request one.

Contact the Garda who summonsed you, explain to them that you have a letter certifying you produced within 10 days of non-production and that you will be bringing this with you to court. The Garda should then drop the matter, not doing so makes them look bad. But if they do not then you must show up, produce your letter and let the judge consider the facts.

You have nothing to worry about, provided you can prove you produced within the 10 days. Let this be a lesson to you, make sure you get confirmation the next time you produce

ResearchWill

Section 40 was again amended in the 2010 act


“40.— (1) A member of the Garda Síochána may demand of a person—

(a) driving in a public place a mechanically propelled vehicle, or

(b) accompanying under regulations under this Act the holder of a learner permit while such holder is driving in a public place a mechanically propelled vehicle,

the production to him or her for his or her inspection of a driving licence then having effect and licensing the person to drive the vehicle. If the person refuses or fails so to produce the licence there and then, he or she commits an offence.

(2) A member of the Garda Síochána may demand of a person who is driving in a public place a mechanically propelled vehicle and is not the holder of a driving licence the production to him or her for his or her inspection of a learner permit then having effect and licensing the person to drive the vehicle. If the person refuses or fails so to produce the learner permit and is a person falling within section 35(1), he or she commits an offence.

(3) Where a person who is driving in a public place a mechanically propelled vehicle and of whom the production of a driving licence is demanded under paragraph (a) of subsection (1) or is required under subsection (4)(a) produces, in accordance with the demand or requirement, a learner permit then having effect and licensing the person to drive the vehicle concerned, the person has not committed an offence under subsection (1) or (4)(a), as the case may be.

(4) (a) Where a person of whom the production of a driving licence or learner permit is demanded under this section refuses or fails to produce the licence or permit there and then, a member of the Garda Síochána may require the person to produce within 10 days after the date of the requirement the licence or permit in person to a member of the Garda Síochána at a Garda Síochána station to be named by the person at the time of the requirement. If the person refuses or fails so to produce the licence, he or she commits an offence.

(b) In any proceedings a certificate, purporting to be signed by the member in charge of the Garda Síochána station at which the defendant concerned was required, under paragraph (a), to produce the driving licence or learner permit, stating that the defendant did not, within 10 days after the day on which the production was required, produce a driving licence or learner permit in accordance with paragraph (a) shall, without proof of the signature of the person purporting to sign the certificate or that he or she was the member in charge of the Garda Síochána station, be evidence, until the contrary is shown, of the facts stated in the certificate.

(c) Where any person is required to produce a driving licence or learner permit at a Garda Síochána station and the person produces the licence or permit within 10 days after the day on which the production was required, the member in charge of the Garda Síochána station shall issue a certificate stating that the licence or permit was so produced and such certificate shall be evidence of the facts stated in the certificate.

(5) Where a person of whom the production of a driving licence or learner permit is demanded or required under this section produces the licence or permit in accordance with the demand or requirement, but refuses or fails to permit the member of the Garda Síochána to whom it is produced to read the licence or permit, he or she commits an offence.

(6) Where a person of whom the production of a driving licence or learner permit is demanded or required under this section refuses or fails so to produce the licence or permit or produces the licence or permit but refuses or fails to permit the member of the Garda Síochána to whom it is produced to read the licence or permit, the member may demand of the person his or her name and address and date of birth and, if the person refuses or fails to give to the member his or her name and address or date of birth or gives to the member a name or address or date of birth which is false or misleading, he or she commits an offence.

(7) A member of the Garda Síochána may arrest without warrant—

(a) a person who under this section produces a driving licence or learner permit to the member but refuses or fails to permit the member to read it, or

(b) a person who, when his or her name and address or date of birth is lawfully demanded of him or her by the member under this section, refuses or fails to give to the member his or her name and address or date of birth or gives to the member a name or address or date of birth which the member has reasonable grounds for believing to be false or misleading.

(8) A person who, when the production of a driving licence or learner permit is demanded or required of him or her under this section, does not produce the licence or permit because he or she is not the holder of a driving licence or learner permit is deemed to fail to produce his or her driving licence or learner permit, as the case may be, under this section.”.

(2) The following are repealed:

(a) section 25 of the Act of 1994,

(b) section 18 of the Act of 2002, and

(c) section 13 of the Act of 2006.

And like the earlier amendment failure to produce on demand is an offence, most Garda ask you to produce in 10 days aswell and failure to do that is a separate offence and will lead to 3 summons 1 not having a valid licence. 2 failure to produce on demand 3 failure to produce within 10 days.

ResearchWill

TouchingVirus wrote: »

The principle act is the Road Traffic Act, 1961 and the section is section 40 (Requirement to carry driving licence while driving vehicle.). It was amended in 1994 to make driving with a license a requirement but adds in that a Garda may ask you to produce your driving license within 10 days at a station of your choosing. It was amended again in 2002, but I don't believe the amendments deal with anything appropriate to your situation so here's the 1994 Section 40.



It says that you should have received a certificate of production from the Garda station in question. If you did not receive a certificate of production, but did produce within the 10 days then you should go to the place you produced, and formally request one.

Contact the Garda who summonsed you, explain to them that you have a letter certifying you produced within 10 days of non-production and that you will be bringing this with you to court. The Garda should then drop the matter, not doing so makes them look bad. But if they do not then you must show up, produce your letter and let the judge consider the facts.

You have nothing to worry about, provided you can prove you produced within the 10 days. Let this be a lesson to you, make sure you get confirmation the next time you produce

He has not been summoned with failure to produce within 10 days, he was summoned with failure to produce on demand that is when he was sitting in the car chatting to the Garda. Also just so people know if you are with a L driver you must as the full licence holder produce on demand your licence also offence not to.

HarryPotter41

battries not included wrote: »

failure to produce there & then a valid licence.

that is what the summons says, i called the garda station where the garda works and another garda told me she is on holidays, she advised me to send in my insurance, copy of licence, & tax to the garda who stopped me and she will take it from then!

seems to be a lot just for not producing a licence on the day, i did bring it to my local station who typed it into their system...

:mad::mad:

Ring the Garda Station you produced in again and ask for the production record number for your production. It is available through the PULSE system. Pass this along to the station that asked for the demand. You probably will have to go along on the day of the court anyway to have the summons struck out. In saying that, they are perfectly entitled under the law to summons you for not having your licence on you, but virtually unheard of for it to happen.

battries not included

thanks for replies, i have my licence vaild until november this year, just forgot it the day i was stopped by the guard!

i wonder if i just bring my licence with me to court or send a copy of it to the guard in question??

seems a waste of time to go to court

HarryPotter41

battries not included wrote: »

thanks for replies, i have my licence vaild until november this year, just forgot it the day i was stopped by the guard!

i wonder if i just bring my licence with me to court or send a copy of it to the guard in question??

seems a waste of time to go to court

Bring the licence to court, while its a waste of time you have been summonsed before the court and are legally obliged to attend.

battries not included

HarryPotter41 wrote: »

Bring the licence to court, while its a waste of time you have been summonsed before the court and are legally obliged to attend.

Yes I agree, I don't mind going to court to answer the charge, probably get struck out or small fine.

Lesson learned.

ResearchWill

battries not included wrote: »

thanks for replies, i have my licence vaild until november this year, just forgot it the day i was stopped by the guard!

i wonder if i just bring my licence with me to court or send a copy of it to the guard in question??

seems a waste of time to go to court

I am going to try and explain this again. There are 2 different offences.

The first is failure to produce on demand the important word is demand, there and then again important. You say you did not have licence with you so defacto you are guilty of that offence and have been summoned for that offence.

The second one is failure to produce at a Garda station within 10 days. You produced and you have NOT been summoned for that offence.

Can I really not make this clearer. If you do not turn up in court you will be convicted and you will get a fine depending on court you could get the maximum fine not sure how much.

If you turnip speak to Garda explain your situation he may strike the matter out, please wait in court no matter what till you case has been heard.

HarryPotter41

ResearchWill wrote: »

I am going to try and explain this again. There are 2 different offences.

The first is failure to produce on demand the important word is demand, there and then again important. You say you did not have licence with you so defacto you are guilty of that offence and have been summoned for that offence.

The second one is failure to produce at a Garda station within 10 days. You produced and you have NOT been summoned for that offence.

Can I really not make this clearer. If you do not turn up in court you will be convicted and you will get a fine depending on court you could get the maximum fine not sure how much.

If you turnip speak to Garda explain your situation he may strike the matter out, please wait in court no matter what till you case has been heard.

Agree with the above, very unusual to be summonsed for that offence though, must be one very summons happy Garda.

ResearchWill

HarryPotter41 wrote: »

ResearchWill wrote: »

I am going to try and explain this again. There are 2 different offences.

The first is failure to produce on demand the important word is demand, there and then again important. You say you did not have licence with you so defacto you are guilty of that offence and have been summoned for that offence.

The second one is failure to produce at a Garda station within 10 days. You produced and you have NOT been summoned for that offence.

Can I really not make this clearer. If you do not turn up in court you will be convicted and you will get a fine depending on court you could get the maximum fine not sure how much.

If you turnip speak to Garda explain your situation he may strike the matter out, please wait in court no matter what till you case has been heard.

Agree with the above, very unusual to be summonsed for that offence though, must be one very summons happy Garda.

In the district court appeal and in the district court I see this every day. If I had a euro for every failure to produce I have seen in court I would have a lot of euros lol.

battries not included

ResearchWill wrote: »

In the district court appeal and in the district court I see this every day. If I had a euro for every failure to produce I have seen in court I would have a lot of euros lol.

Will I get a fine?

ResearchWill

battries not included wrote: »

ResearchWill wrote: »

In the district court appeal and in the district court I see this every day. If I had a euro for every failure to produce I have seen in court I would have a lot of euros lol.

Will I get a fine?

Usual is €50 depends on judge.

HarryPotter41

ResearchWill wrote: »

In the district court appeal and in the district court I see this every day. If I had a euro for every failure to produce I have seen in court I would have a lot of euros lol.

Usually in conjunction with the summons for non production and not having a licence. Would have thought it was rare just to summons for not having the licence on you when stopped once you produce it.

ResearchWill

HarryPotter41 wrote: »

ResearchWill wrote: »

In the district court appeal and in the district court I see this every day. If I had a euro for every failure to produce I have seen in court I would have a lot of euros lol.

Usually in conjunction with the summons for non production and not having a licence. Would have thought it was rare just to summons for not having the licence on you when stopped once you produce it.

True in the past but it is happening more and more.

coylemj

ResearchWill wrote: »

If you turnip speak to Garda explain your situation he may strike the matter out, please wait in court no matter what till you case has been heard.

What is there to 'explain' to the Garda? He didn't have his licence on him when he was stopped, he produced it later and the Garda knows this (because he has not issued a summons for beng the holder of a current licence) but the Garda decided to summons him for not having the licence on him at the time.

The Garda cannot 'strike the matter out', that's for the judge to decide and on the face of it the OP has to answer the charge and depending on what kind of excuse he comes up with he will probably get a small fine.

0O7

hmmm


how many summons did you get? was there any for "No Driving Licence"??

Is it a provisional or full?

hmmmmmmmm, suspicion has been aroused

ResearchWill

coylemj wrote: »

ResearchWill wrote: »

If you turnip speak to Garda explain your situation he may strike the matter out, please wait in court no matter what till you case has been heard.

What is there to 'explain' to the Garda? He didn't have his licence on him when he was stopped, he produced it later and the Garda knows this (because he has not issued a summons for beng the holder of a current licence) but the Garda decided to summons him for not having the licence on him at the time.

The Garda cannot 'strike the matter out', that's for the judge to decide and on the face of it the OP has to answer the charge and depending on what kind of excuse he comes up with he will probably get a small fine.

The Garda can offer no evidence, which will result in strike out.

coylemj

ResearchWill wrote: »

The Garda can offer no evidence, which will result in strike out.

Why would he do that?

Nothing has changed since the OP produced his licence at the station. The Garda who stopped him issued the summons for not having the licence on him when he was stopped, he knew when he did this that the OP was the holder of a current licence but he decided to summons him anyway, why would he offer no evidence when the case is called?

ResearchWill

coylemj wrote: »

Why would he do that?

Nothing has changed since the OP produced his licence at the station. The Garda who stopped him issued the summons for not having the licence on him when he was stopped, he knew when he did this that the OP was the holder of a current licence but he decided to summons him anyway, why would he offer no evidence when the case is called?

I see Garda doing it all the time, and yes if you see my earlier post I say that an offence has been committed, but the Garda may be nice on the day. If the OP is a non Irish Citizen who intends to apply for citizenship such a conviction can mess up application, and before anyone says no this can not happen, I have one client who had that exact thing happen. So always worth throwing your self on the mercy of the Garda, on the day in Court it is a minor offence and he may say to himself its a bit harsh to bring summons. I have had Garda offer no evidence for a multitude of reasons. Depends on the Garda.

battries not included

Ok ill try to clear this up,

I was stopped at a Garda checkpoint.

Failed to produce my licence on demand by the Garda who stopped me there and then.

My licence was at home as I rushed out the door (on the way to hospital with my pregnant girlfriend who had an appointment)

I have a provisional licence which expires in November 2011.

I will go to court and answer the judge questions and hopefully he will accept my excuse and also the fact I have a valid licence with me on day of court.

coylemj

battries not included wrote: »

My licence was at home as I rushed out the door (on the way to hospital with my pregnant girlfriend who had an appointment)

That is a good excuse but you may be asked by the judge if you told it to the Garda on the day.

battries not included

Yes i did mention it to the garda on the day but in fairness I didn't expect any favours from her!

It was obvious from the big bump in her belly and the fact the hospital was 5 mins away

hope I just get a fine

in total I have three summons,

1) Failing to produce a valid licence there and then

2) Failing to produce at local garda station

3) Did drive a mechanically propelled vehicle without holding a driving licence for the time being having effect and licensing you to drive such vehicle!

0O7

battries not included wrote: »

I have a provisional licence which expires in November 2011.

thats where the confusion was...

the summons for not having a full licenced driver accompanied is actually a summons for "no driving licence"

that is probably what your getting done for. its the only thing that makes sense

battries not included

So is there any point contacting the garda who stopped me and explain I have a valid licence or would it be a waste of time?

jill_valentine

Hang on, just to clarify -

Do you hold a full drivers license? Or is your girlfriend a fully licensed driver?

battries not included

jill_valentine wrote: »

Hang on, just to clarify -

Do you hold a full drivers license? Or is your girlfriend a fully licensed driver?

Neither!

I have a provisional licence (valid until nov 2011) just did not have it with me when stopped.

jill_valentine

No, whoa, that's where you went wrong. For a few years now, you cannot drive on a provisional license unsupervised.

That is what you've been summonsed for.

battries not included

Yes I reckon so, sigh, guess I don't know what will happen now!

coylemj

OP, if you don't me saying so you are seriously abusing the kindness of strangers on this thread. You started the thread in the early hours of Wednesday morning and posted these two contributions...

battries not included wrote: »

Hi, I was stopped by a garda at checkpoint weeks ago, did not have my licence with me in the car

Guard took my details and asked me to produce insurance & licence at my local station, which I did few days later (before the 10day limit) anyway thought everything okay until today I received a registered letter in the post which contained a court summons for 'failure to produce licence'

What should I do? I called the station I produced the documnets too and they advised it was a matter for the garda who was stopped me??

do i still have to go to court?

Note the reference to 'a' court summons, singular i.e. one summons.

battries not included wrote: »

failure to produce there & then a valid licence.

that is what the summons says

So the thread continued with everyone discussing the issue of being summonsed for not producing your licence on the spot to the Gardai i.e. driving a car without having the licence on you. Then almost 48 hours after you started the thread you chip in this ....

battries not included wrote: »

in total I have three summons,

1) Failing to produce a valid licence there and then

2) Failing to produce at local garda station

3) Did drive a mechanically propelled vehicle without holding a driving licence for the time being having effect and licensing you to drive such vehicle!

Which renders useless almost all of the contributions from people trying to give you advice who were operating on the basis that you had only one summons to answer.

You even gave the thread the title Court Summons for not producing licence whereas the third summons above 'did drive a mechanically propelled vehicle without holding a driving licence for the time being having effect' puts the other two in the shade and represents a whole new ball game.

The reason you couldn't produce a valid licence is not because you forgot to bring it with you, it's because you don't have one, you are not allowed to drive unaccompanied on a learner permit.

slimjimmc

With 3 charges you likely end up with a decent fine, can't see you getting off scot-free. The max penalty for the learner permit is €1,000 but from what I've see in the local rags you'll probably fork out €100-€200 in total. Did you have L-plates up because I notice you didn't get charged for not having them (another offence that carries a max €1000)?

battries not included

Yes I had my L plates on my car at the time I was stopped.

battries not included

case was struck out.

please feel free to close thread

xtine123

I got stopped by a guard today but as I had lost my license few days prior to this plus the car was out of tax
I got a fine for not having tax and he took my name etc and asked me to produce my license and insurance at my local guards station. Problem is I am heading away for a few weeks tomorrow which I stated to the guard at the time. What should I do now? Is there any way I can just pay the fine without having to produce my license etc to the guards.

K.Flyer

At the very least produce your insurance cert at the Garda station. Then sort out your replacement licence, road tax and arrears when you get home. Keep the receipts from the motor tax office to show that the arrears were paid and your licence had to be replaced, it will help if you end up in court.
But at least produce your insurance cert asap.

xtine123

So annoying I only got my new insurance today too plus I only have a provisional license. Do you think it will be a hefty fine?

Cuddlesworth

xtine123 wrote: »

So annoying I only got my new insurance today too plus I only have a provisional license. Do you think it will be a hefty fine?

And the start time might magically be after the incident in question?

brian_t

xtine123 wrote: »

So annoying I only got my new insurance today too plus I only have a provisional license. Do you think it will be a hefty fine?

Did you have a qualified driver in the car with you ?

xtine123

Funny enough it doesn't..
Pretty stressed out about this though I've never been stopped before

brian_t

Cuddlesworth wrote: »

And the start time might magically be after the incident in question?

A serious question - would the actual time be relevant once the insurance was dated right.

ie. Would the guards check that detail ?

Pro Hoc Vice

brian_t wrote: »

A serious question - would the actual time be relevant once the insurance was dated right.

ie. Would the guards check that detail ?

Of course the start time of insurance is relevant. Say stopped at 2am the 1st October, 2013, the. You ring insurance company at 9am and set up insurance. Out comes cert saying cover commenced 9am on the 1st October 2013, where you covered at 2am simple answer no, did you then commit an offence simple answer yes. Will a Garda pick up on it? Hopefully yes maybe not.