Shannon Bridge Roundabout lanes

Berty

Grizzly 45 wrote: »

you also have to watch out for people blithly ignoring oncoming traffic in front as well.
Somone slams on the brakes in front because some fukwitt has cycled out onto the zebra crossing .

I don't stop for cyclists on PEDESTRIAN crossings. Never have and never will UNLESS of course they pose a risk to my car(of hitting it).

Get off and walk.

Whilst I'm here. I also hate people who STAND right on top of a Zebra crossing but have no intention of crossing. Probably waiting for a lift. :mad:

dr.fuzzenstein

That roundabout does my head in.
Logically, left lane for turning left, middle lane for straight ahead and right lane for turning right.
Everything could be so easy.
But then some fcukwit decides to put a second "straight ahead" arrow down and you have people racing each other across to the other side, in case of an accident you can argue about "being in the right", etc..., but one should argue about "being fcuked in the head" when it comes to road design.
As for the argument "people should use both lanes", that is insane, you'd have two lanes trying to merge on the exit, that's worse, if anything.
And, yes, death to people who use the left lane for going straight ahead!
Also death to people who use the Parkway Shopping Centre lane to cut across waiting traffic to go down the Dublin road towards the city centre!

thesimpsons

timbertime wrote: »

The roundabout that annoys me is the one on the Tipperary/Ballysimon road at the BMW garage/Halfords. There are no makings on the road here. So technically if heading for Tipperary/Waterford from town you should be in the right lane as its the third exit. Bloomfield rd is no. 1 and Groody is the 2nd. But 99% of drivers keep to the left lane and take the third exit. Wrecks my head!! Ugh!

the rules of the road say nothing about 1st, 2nd or 3rd exits. The rules state that if you are going straight ahead you take the left lane on the roundabout and signal appropriately for the exits. Bloomfield Rd (is that the small one leading to Bloodmill road ?) and Groody and straight ahead for Tipperary are all left lane exits as the Tipperary Road continues from the town side straight line through to the 3rd exit, then the left lane is the correct one. The ROTR do not really spell it out for anthing other than the standard 4 exit roundabout but its quite clear about going left, straight ahead and right. There is nothing in ROTR about 1st, 2nd or 3rd exits.

http://www.rulesoftheroad.ie/rules-for-driving/junctions-roundabouts/roundabouts.html

Mc Love

So funny as the most on here including myself and my driving instructor told me that for the 1st and 2nd exits its left lane and for all subsequent exits stay in the right lane unless there are road markings telling you otherwise

Berty

Mc Love wrote: »

So funny as the most on here including myself and my driving instructor told me that for the 1st and 2nd exits its left lane and for all subsequent exits stay in the right lane unless there are road markings telling you otherwise

One of the annoyances on the Newport roundabout that I use numerous times a day is that when they were buildling it there were signs on the newport entrance stating you should you use the right lane/inner orbital lane for the old Dublin road which contradicts everything we know about roundabouts. It is the 2nd exit and at 12 O'Clock. People often use this lane to overtake rush hour traffic. I love those people WHEN they try it next to me because I match their speed and block them.

People then heading from the Motorway to Newport stay in the left lane/outer orbital lane and go ALL the way around in the "Scenic route" as its known and then take the Newport exit thereby passing by two exits in the meantime.

Then there are those coming from the Dublin Road heading to Newport who use the outer orbital lane(correct) and I'm coming from the Motorway(inner orbital/right lane) and they come onto the roundabout with me meaning that they are now blocking my exit. Now, I have right of way because I was on the roundabout first but it still causes annoyance.

Then there are those coming from the Dublin road heading to Newport who enter the roundabout in the right lane/outer orbital lane and try to cut back across into the left lane for the Newport exit. I also love when they try it on me because they always lose.

The same applies to people at the Dublin road roundabout whom use the left lane(city bound) to bypass all the traffic in the right lane. I always catch them out as well.

Drive defensively is what I always say and piss them off when you can.

Liam Byrne

thesimpsons wrote: »

the rules of the road say nothing about 1st, 2nd or 3rd exits. The rules state that if you are going straight ahead you take the left lane on the roundabout and signal appropriately for the exits. Bloomfield Rd (is that the small one leading to Bloodmill road ?) and Groody and straight ahead for Tipperary are all left lane exits as the Tipperary Road continues from the town side straight line through to the 3rd exit, then the left lane is the correct one. The ROTR do not really spell it out for anthing other than the standard 4 exit roundabout but its quite clear about going left, straight ahead and right. There is nothing in ROTR about 1st, 2nd or 3rd exits.

http://www.rulesoftheroad.ie/rules-for-driving/junctions-roundabouts/roundabouts.html

100% incorrect

1st & 2nd exit = left lane
Subsequent exits = right lane

This has been done to death on various boards

Bloomfield Rd (is that the small one leading to Bloodmill road ?) and Groody and straight ahead for Tipperary are all left lane exits as the Tipperary Road continues from the town side straight line

The Ballysimon to Tipperary line is NOT "straight" - it's about 1 o'clock rather than 12 o'clock (there's a specific thread about it here somewhere, but I can't be arsed going looking for it now).

Bloomfield & Groody = left lane
Tipperary & B&Q = right lane

thesimpsons

Tipperary road is the N24 on both sides of the roundabout and looks like as close to straight ahead as any irish road I've come across. This, combined with recent chat with a driving instructor, means I'm going to stay in the left lane on the roundabout - but its ok cos I'll keep an eye out for you in the other lane.

where does it say anywhere in ROTR that exits 1st, 2nd or 3rd use any particular exit ?

Cookiemunster

Liam Byrne wrote: »

100% incorrect

1st & 2nd exit = left lane
Subsequent exits = right lane

Have to say I agree with thesimpsons on the Tipp Rd.
If you stay on the N24 going through the Tipp Rd RAB the you're going straight ahead through the RAB and therefore you keep left as per the rules of the road.

If you were correct then driving down Childers Rd from Roxboro and turning right out the Old Cork Road I should keep left to turn right as the 1st exit is straight ahead and the 2nd exit is out the Old Cork Road.

thesimpsons

see this thread which gives a roundabout query to the RSA and their answer to it

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2055998652&page=1

Berty

thesimpsons wrote: »

see this thread which gives a roundabout query to the RSA and their answer to it

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2055998652&page=1

I e-mailed the RSA before about roundabouts in Tralee and Castlebar where they ALL have markings denoting you use the right lane/inner orbital lane for the 2nd exit and all following this. The left lane is ONLY for the 1st exit.

I wanted to know if they believe this will confuse drivers from these regions when they pass their tests and drive into other counties.

They said you follow the road markings and local rules. Cop out really.

dr.fuzzenstein

There was a pretty good thread about roundabouts in the motors forum.
Check this out:
http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2056163797

Liam Byrne

thesimpsons wrote: »

Tipperary road is the N24 on both sides of the roundabout and looks like as close to straight ahead as any irish road I've come across.

OK - earlier it was "it's straight" and now it's "as close to straight" ?

Check the map and come back to me

http://maps.google.ie/maps?q=Limerick+Road+Roundabout,+County+North+Tipperary&hl=en&ll=52.650706,-8.577576&spn=0.005689,0.013797&sll=53.566414,-8.305664&sspn=5.377976,14.128418&geocode=FfzrJwMdUNKI_w&z=16

Anyway, if you do it correctly you won't have an issue, but yes - keep an eye out for me because if you do it incorrectly you will be blown out of it and be at fault if you cause an accident.

If you were correct then driving down Childers Rd from Roxboro and turning right out the Old Cork Road I should keep left to turn right as the 1st exit is straight ahead and the 2nd exit is out the Old Cork Road.

There are already variations in the rules in terms of the number of lanes - e.g. two lanes in the 2nd exit allows both lanes to go straight ahead (as is the case at the Dock Road coming from Mungret) - and obviously if there are 2 exits you use the right-hand lane to turn right.....the same applies at the Crescent (and the St Pauls mini-roundabout).

At least it's a lot less arbitrary than trying to imagine a birds-eye view.

But the bottom line is that even the RSA couldn't answer the question definitively when it was put to them by a few of us a while back......they have contradicted themselves a number of times in replies (and the emails are posted here on boards somewhere).

Its typically Irish - don't, under any circumstances, give a definitive answer.

But the generally-accepted better rule (that, as I said, doesn't involve guessing what Google sees) is 1st & 2nd exits = left lane.

Jofspring

Liam Byrne wrote: »

OK - earlier it was "it's straight" and now it's "as close to straight" ?

Check the map and come back to me

http://maps.google.ie/maps?q=Limerick+Road+Roundabout,+County+North+Tipperary&hl=en&ll=52.650706,-8.577576&spn=0.005689,0.013797&sll=53.566414,-8.305664&sspn=5.377976,14.128418&geocode=FfzrJwMdUNKI_w&z=16

Well going by that map then that is definitely straight through the roundabout. If you approach lets say at 6 O'Clock (from town) then going out the Tipperary Rd would most definitely be 12 O'Clock (or straight through).

Always thought the rule of thumb was anything past 12 on a roundabout then you use the right hand lane unless marked on the road.

Mc Love

Jofspring wrote: »

Well going by that map then that is definitely straight through the roundabout. If you approach lets say at 6 O'Clock (from town) then going out the Tipperary Rd would most definitely be 12 O'Clock (or straight through).

Always thought the rule of thumb was anything past 12 on a roundabout then you use the right hand lane unless marked on the road.

Not if you zoom in, its about one o'clock

thesimpsons

and if you go and look at the signpost which gives the directional information, its straight ahead. unless you were to actually drive with a birds eye view, you would have to accept that the NRA signpost is correct (mind you rather than a birds eye view, some people seem to use horses blinkers when driving on roundabouts).

Mc Love

Thats fair enough I suppose going by the sign post it is straight ahead. But I think it has to come down to the amount of exits. Why else would a lot of people accept that rule. Why was I thought by a driving instructor if you are taking the 3rd or 4th or 5th you take the right hand lane and the left hand lane for exits 1 and 2. And obviously that rule applies only for exits when there are the typical 4 exit roundabout, it wouldnt apply to the Kilmallock r/a

Signpost:


Roundabout in question:

Mc Love

Another very similar r/a is this one:
http://maps.google.ie/?ll=52.66186,-8.594753&spn=0.005017,0.015117&z=17&layer=c&cbll=52.661628,-8.59488&panoid=4I_TUeiazRqNSTrs_HidaA&cbp=12,4.75,,1,-1.25

If you were to go to rhebogue, would you stay in left lane or the right lane? It has the road markings though and it says to go straight on to stay in the left lane.

thesimpsons

I don't know why a driving instructor would have told you that rule McLove as the driving instructor I was speaking to recently told us to use the straight ahead or 12/1 o'clock rule. I was being a driving supervisor to a learner and sat in on a lesson or two and clarified some rules with him. The learner came across two roundabouts in their test and using the 12/1 o'clock rule, passed the test so I guess thats what the driving testers are working with as well.

thesimpsons

Mc Love wrote: »

Another very similar r/a is this one:
http://maps.google.ie/?ll=52.66186,-8.594753&spn=0.005017,0.015117&z=17&layer=c&cbll=52.661628,-8.59488&panoid=4I_TUeiazRqNSTrs_HidaA&cbp=12,4.75,,1,-1.25

If you were to go to rhebogue, would you stay in left lane or the right lane? It has the road markings though and it says to go straight on to stay in the left lane.

as there are road markings they will always over ride the ROTR but either way, I'd stay in left lane as its a straight ahead exit

Mc Love

thesimpsons wrote: »

as there are road markings they will always over ride the ROTR but either way, I'd stay in left lane as its a straight ahead exit

Yeah its basically the same as the tipp r/a so in future I will use it correctly.

Its how you interpret the clock rule i guess, as if you use the Kilmallock roundabout coming from Roxboro you wouldnt stay in the left lane if you were taking Old Cork road even though its the 2nd exit.

Liam Byrne

thesimpsons wrote: »

I don't know why a driving instructor would have told you that rule McLove as the driving instructor I was speaking to recently told us to use the straight ahead or 12/1 o'clock rule.

Conversely, we don't know why a driving instructor would have told you that rule.

You phrased the above as if your version was the correct one of the two.

Jofspring

Mc Love wrote: »

Not if you zoom in, its about one o'clock

12:45

source

Here's what the rules of the road has to say on the subject of roundabouts.

Making a left turn
Signal left and approach in the left-hand lane. Keep to the left on the roundabout and continue signalling left to leave



Going straight ahead:
Approach in the left-hand lane but do not signal yet. Signal left after you have passed the exit before the one you want. You may follow the course shown in the illustration by the broken red line in situations where: the left-hand lane is only for turning left or is blocked or closed, or when directed by a Garda.



Taking any later exits
Signal right and approach in the right-hand lane. Keep to the right on the roundabout until you need to change lanes to exit the roundabout. Check your mirrors, signal left and proceed to your exit when it is safe to do so. Signal left after you have passed the exit before the one you want to take.

So according to the RSA, anything travelling straight through the roundabout belongs in the left hand lane, anything after that goes in the right hand lane.

On Ballysimon Road (N24), going from town in direction of M7 is straight and left hand lane is to be used.

As with all roundabouts the RSA says you must obey local road signs no matter what your driver training says.

You must obey any road markings on the lanes and/or other instructions to show what lane to use if you intend to take a particular exit from the roundabout.

Perfect example is Parkway where slip road is for left turn, left hand lane (coming from castletroy) is for Parkway only and right hand lane is for all other exits. Standard driver training says this is wrong, but it is the local rules that apply.

As for edging other drivers off the road at the dock road roundabout where 2 lanes turn into one at the other side of the roundabout is also covered:

Drivers should make themselves aware of the road markings and get into the appropriate lane when safe to do so, remembering to show consideration to other users of the road and in the interest of road safety, yield when necessary.

It does however also say this:

Sometimes a roundabout exit with two or more lanes may narrow into one lane over a short distance. Drivers in the lane which is terminated should yield to traffic in the other lane

.

So there you have it, the definitive answer from the body who publish the ROTR.

Mc Love

Liam Byrne wrote: »

Conversely, we don't know why a driving instructor would have told you that rule.

You phrased the above as if your version was the correct one of the two.

Maybe because I thought my version was the correct one :rolleyes:

Liam Byrne

source wrote: »

Going straight ahead:

This is the problem - there is no definition of "straight ahead", and people are making it up as they go along.

For example, if the Parkway wasn't there, would "straight ahead" cover coming into town?

And coming from Ballysimon to Roxboro, do you use the left lane, even though there's no right turn? How about coming from town past The Crescent towards Raheen?

So there you have it, the definitive answer from the body who publish the ROTR.

Nowhere near it. And when emailed about this issue they couldn't even give a clear answer, let alone a definitive one.

The "rules" are fine for a standard 4-exit, but they are hopeless for all others, leading to interpretation, which leads to accidents.

source

Liam Byrne wrote: »

This is the problem - there is no definition of "straight ahead", and people are making it up as they go along.

For example, if the Parkway wasn't there, would "straight ahead" cover coming into town?

And coming from Ballysimon to Roxboro, do you use the left lane, even though there's no right turn? How about coming from town past The Crescent towards Raheen?



Nowhere near it. And when emailed about this issue they couldn't even give a clear answer, let alone a definitive one.

The "rules" are fine for a standard 4-exit, but they are hopeless for all others, leading to interpretation, which leads to accidents.

All of those roundabouts have local rules applying to them, I'm not going to get into hypothetical's on the parkway roundabout. Passing the crescent, local rules dictate, left lane is left turn only, so right lane is for all other exits.

Re Ballysimon to Roxboro, what roundabout are you talking about, there's 4 roundabouts between Ballysimon and Roxboro. If you are referring to Old Cork Road roundabout, the standard rules apply, just because there's no right turn it's still a standard 4 exit roundabout, exit 1 and 2 are left lane, and exit 3 (doubling back on yourself) is right hand lane.

I find the rules clear and easy to understand, Sorry that you don't but the rules I've posted above coupled with concentrating while driving and reading local signage, I've never had a problem navigating any roundabout I've come across in my 10 years of driving.

On straight ahead, it doesn't take a genius to see that a less than 5 degree change of course on a road/roundabout doesn't change the fact that the road is considered to travel straight through. If the roundabout and other exits didn't exist then there would be a very slight almost imperceptible bend in the road. But now i'm going into hypotheticals and I don't want to get into that because we'd be here all day arguing about fictitious roundabouts.

edit:In fact just looking at the roundabout at Ballysimon on maps the straight through exit is directly opposite the entrance to the roundabout coming from Childers Road. The entire road is on a slight bend but the roundabout exit and entrance are in a straight line from each other.

Liam Byrne

source wrote: »

All of those roundabouts have local rules applying to them, I'm not going to get into hypothetical's on the parkway roundabout. Passing the crescent, local rules dictate, left lane is left turn only, so right lane is for all other exits.

If you mean local road markings then you're wrong.

I find the rules clear and easy to understand, Sorry that you don't but the rules I've posted above coupled with concentrating while driving and reading local signage, I've never had a problem navigating any roundabout I've come across in my 10 years of driving.

On straight ahead, it doesn't take a genius to see that a less than 5 degree change of course on a road/roundabout doesn't change the fact that the road is considered to travel straight through.

That's unbelievably patronising - "it doesn't take a genius to see guess" - just because you think one way doesn't change the fact that the rule is unclear at best. Why 5 degrees ? What about 6 degrees, or 6.5 degrees ? Where does your guesswork end ?

As for hypotheticals - nice dodge; somewhere in the country there's a similar configuration and the RSA don't want to know / clarify.

I don't care what you guess or think - I'm talking about stuff that's IN THE RULES.

The rules mention nothing about your 5 degrees or your guesswork.

source

Liam Byrne wrote: »

If you mean local road markings then you're wrong.

I do, and i'm not, have a look at the roundabout next time you're out, the left lane has a left turn arrow, the right lane has a straight ahead arrow.

That's unbelievably patronising - "it doesn't take a genius to see guess" - just because you think one way doesn't change the fact that the rule is unclear at best. Why 5 degrees ? What about 6 degrees, or 6.5 degrees ? Where does your guesswork end ?

As for hypotheticals - nice dodge; somewhere in the country there's a similar configuration and the RSA don't want to know / clarify.

I don't care what you guess or think - I'm talking about stuff that's IN THE RULES.

The rules mention nothing about your 5 degrees or your guesswork.

I apologise if I came across as patronising, I just don't understand how people fail to grasp the concept of driving on a roundabout. The rules (while laid out for a simple 4 exit roundabout) are easy to understand. People come up with all sort of hypothetical situations trying to complicate it, It's simple, anything other than a 4 exit roundabout, follow the local sign posts and you won't go wrong. On the few standard roundabouts that don't follow the standard rules, again, go with the local sign posts.

On hypotheticals, it's not a cop out, I try to avoid hypothetical conversations if I can at all, reason being if someone starts off with one hypothetical situation then that situation will grow and another point will be added on and another and then you just wind up going around in circles, if you know of a roundabout, then I'll gladly discuss that with you, but I'm not getting into a hypothetical conversation with you.

Again I apologise for being patronising, this issue really frustrates me, as it is actually quite simple if you pay attention and use common sense.

Liam Byrne

So explain to me then where you got your arbitrary 5 degrees, and explain what happens when someone doesn't have a protractor handy?

The "first and second exit" rule has no such room for confusion or accidents.

source

Liam Byrne wrote: »

So explain to me then where you got your arbitrary 5 degrees, and explain what happens when someone doesn't have a protractor handy?

The "first and second exit" rule has no such room for confusion or accidents.

I took an educated guess by looking at the road on google maps. The only rules are the ones in the ROTR, anything else is just people thinking they know better.

Again I'll say, if you follow the ROTR and local sign posts you won't go wrong when it comes to roundabouts.