Shannon Bridge Roundabout lanes

Mc Love

How about this one
http://maps.google.ie/?ll=52.630276,-8.6321&spn=0.009976,0.030234&z=16&layer=c&cbll=52.630955,-8.635903&panoid=TvZrfk_wG90VkdR_jOOdJA&cbp=12,82.2,,0,4.79

Coming from the collins roundabout, I would use the right hand lane for going straight on as its the 3rd exit and because there are two lanes. The left lane is from exit one (rosbrien road) and exit two (motorway).

If I follow ROTR i should be in the left hand lane?

Liam Byrne

source wrote: »

Liam Byrne wrote: »

So explain to me then where you got your arbitrary 5 degrees, and explain what happens when someone doesn't have a protractor handy?

The "first and second exit" rule has no such room for confusion or accidents.

I took an educated guess by looking at the road on google maps. The only rules are the ones in the ROTR, anything else is just people thinking they know better.

Again I'll say, if you follow the ROTR and local sign posts you won't go wrong when it comes to roundabouts.

You "took an educated guess" that it was 5 degrees - that's fine.

It doesn't explain why you arbitrarily decided that that 5 degrees could be considered "straight", or why you think it OK to use the left lane for the third exit.

I'm not arguing that you're wrong, because the ROTR are vague and in correspondence the RSA couldn't even clarify it.

All I'm saying is that you cannot claim that you are right; if the RSA refused to state it clearly in my correspondence with them, then a random person on the Internet certainly can't.

The only advantage of the "1st & 2nd exit" approach is that there's no room for confusion or unnecessary accidents.

All that said, at least the idiots that used to use the right-hand lane to go straight on / 2nd exit at a standard roundabout have stopped doing so.

Liam Byrne

Mc Love wrote: »

How about this one
http://maps.google.ie/?ll=52.630276,-8.6321&spn=0.009976,0.030234&z=16&layer=c&cbll=52.630955,-8.635903&panoid=TvZrfk_wG90VkdR_jOOdJA&cbp=12,82.2,,0,4.79

Coming from the collins roundabout, I would use the right hand lane for going straight on as its the 3rd exit and because there are two lanes. The left lane is from exit one (rosbrien road) and exit two (motorway).

If I follow ROTR i should be in the left hand lane?

Depends on whose interpretation of the ROTR you use.

I use the right-hand lane as it's the third exit......no-one would make a lane just for the 1-in-a-million that do u-turns.

Mc Love

Liam Byrne wrote: »

Depends on whose interpretation of the ROTR you use.

I use the right-hand lane as it's the third exit......no-one would make a lane just for the 1-in-a-million that do u-turns.

Same situation one day, lad in car beside me waiting for traffic to leave r/a and both he and I go for the flyover, him in the left and me in the right, i beeped because he encroached on top of me, and he slowed down to a snails pace.

I left him go ahead of me as I knew he was going to crash into the side of me or clip me and tbh I didnt want to have an accident

source

Mc Love wrote: »

How about this one
http://maps.google.ie/?ll=52.630276,-8.6321&spn=0.009976,0.030234&z=16&layer=c&cbll=52.630955,-8.635903&panoid=TvZrfk_wG90VkdR_jOOdJA&cbp=12,82.2,,0,4.79

Coming from the collins roundabout, I would use the right hand lane for going straight on as its the 3rd exit and because there are two lanes. The left lane is from exit one (rosbrien road) and exit two (motorway).

If I follow ROTR i should be in the left hand lane?

The sign shows Limerick and Dublin as a block on the left, and Cork, Tralee and Kilarney in a block on the right. So with 2 lanes, leading into the roundabout, and using some common sense and the indications given on the sign, I would use left lane for exit 1 and 2 and right lane for exit 3 and 4. So once more, I would use the ROTR or the local road signs.

Mc Love

yeah but you are just after contradicting yourself because the arrow is pointing straight ahead on the sign, which you said above, and in the ROTR that straight ahead is left lane?!

Its a complete headfvck

source

Mc Love wrote: »

yeah but you are just after contradicting yourself because the arrow is pointing straight ahead on the sign, which you said above, and in the ROTR that straight ahead is left lane?!

Its a complete headfvck

I didn't contradict myself at all. It's not just the arrows that give you information on a road sign, look at the lay out of the destinations, 2 blocks one on the left and one on the right, You can take it from those that the left lane is for the destinations on the left and the right lane for the destinations on the right.

So once again like i've said many times, ROTR OR Local road signs.

swoofer

what a fascinating topic, for roundabouts take a trip to Swindon and Bletchley in UK and once you can traverse those everything else is easy peasy. This is the best one in Swindon, called magic roundabout but it is flat no barriers.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Magic_Roundabout_Schild_db.jpg

this is it on google maps street view.

http://maps.google.ie/maps?q=swindon+magic+roundabout&um=1&ie=UTF-8&hq=&hnear=0x4871444acff91b99:0x844dcc248e2ea0e0,Magic+Roundabout&gl=ie&ei=-7ZGTuEjx8ezBrboxZ4H&sa=X&oi=geocode_result&ct=image&resnum=8&ved=0CDwQ8gEwBw

and for the limerick/ballysimon roundabout you stay in left lane, the logic is one knows it only has a single exit road and cars inevitably in right lane are,,, turning right.

simples,

that roundabout at shannon bridge is .. was a nightmare, no rules and no courtesy.

enjoy

Liam Byrne

source wrote: »

Mc Love wrote: »

How about this one
http://maps.google.ie/?ll=52.630276,-8.6321&spn=0.009976,0.030234&z=16&layer=c&cbll=52.630955,-8.635903&panoid=TvZrfk_wG90VkdR_jOOdJA&cbp=12,82.2,,0,4.79

Coming from the collins roundabout, I would use the right hand lane for going straight on as its the 3rd exit and because there are two lanes. The left lane is from exit one (rosbrien road) and exit two (motorway).

If I follow ROTR i should be in the left hand lane?

The sign shows Limerick and Dublin as a block on the left, and Cork, Tralee and Kilarney in a block on the right. So with 2 lanes, leading into the roundabout, and using some common sense and the indications given on the sign, I would use left lane for exit 1 and 2 and right lane for exit 3 and 4. So once more, I would use the ROTR or the local road signs.

And if you're going to Fedamore or Rosbrien (also over the flyover) ?

Not only that, but going back to the Parkway roundabout, isn't "city centre" at the top of the sign ?

You're contradicting yourself to suit your interpretation.

Mc Love

source wrote: »

I didn't contradict myself at all. It's not just the arrows that give you information on a road sign, look at the lay out of the destinations, 2 blocks one on the left and one on the right, You can take it from those that the left lane is for the destinations on the left and the right lane for the destinations on the right.

So once again like i've said many times, ROTR OR Local road signs.

"You can take it" but the ROTR say different dont they, you are making up a rule just like Liam and myself were for that Ballysimon/Tipp Rd roundabout.

And GBCULLEN how has the roundabout a single exit road?

source

Liam Byrne wrote: »

And if you're going to Fedamore or Rosbrien (also over the flyover) ?

Not only that, but going back to the Parkway roundabout, isn't "city centre" at the top of the sign ?

You're contradicting yourself to suit your interpretation.

The parkway has it's own signage which is very clear which lane you should be in.

Fedamore is not sign posted until you get across the flyover.

Local sign posting on one roundabout might contradict local sign posting on another roundabout. Since the start of the conversation I've advocated using ROTR or local signs (which is also advocated by ROTR).

Mc Love

This thread is like a roundabout, just keeps going around and around and around! Going to stick what I always do, less confusion for me that way.

Liam Byrne

source wrote: »

Fedamore is not sign posted until you get across the flyover.

So answer the question. Which lane do you use for Fedamore?

Since it's not on the sign you would advocate the left lane, but you'd crash into someone using the right lane for Cork.

Which is it?

source

Liam Byrne wrote: »

So answer the question. Which lane do you use for Fedamore?

Since it's not on the sign you would advocate the left lane, but you'd crash into someone using the right lane for Cork.

Which is it?

What a ridiculous question, you use the same lane as you do for Cork, then at the next roundabout you use the left lane for Fedamore and the right lane to go down the slip road onto the M20.

Liam Byrne

source wrote: »

What a ridiculous question, you use the same lane as you do for Cork, then at the next roundabout you use the left lane for Fedamore and the right lane to go down the slip road onto the M20.

OK - I give up! I have absolutely no idea how your brain is allowing you to justify your contradictions - you say to watch what's on the local signs, making up your own rule that the positioning of the words or the made-up 5 degrees are relevant, and then when you're challenged on why that's unworkable you claim it's a ridiculous question.

You said that you obey local signs or else use the left lane for "straight"; and yet when there's no mention of Fedamore on a sign, you choose to use the right lane.

Enjoy your abitrary lane-jumping, and I'll stick to the absolute rule re 1st & 2nd exits so that there's no guesswork involved.

For the record, I used to use the 12 o clock rule until I realised that people were using it for 1 o'clock - like the Tipp Rd - and all sorts of other random stuff.

The bottom line is that the RSA don't even know. I can back that up with emails from last year.

As McLove said above, I'll do my best to avoid an accident with people doing random rubbish, but if they do something that I'm not expecting (like the "straight on" rule at that Fedamore/Rosbrien flyover) then they'll get blown out of it.

zuroph

Liam Byrne wrote: »

OK - I give up! I have absolutely no idea how your brain is allowing you to justify your contradictions - you say to watch what's on the local signs, making up your own rule that the positioning of the words or the made-up 5 degrees are relevant, and then when you're challenged on why that's unworkable you claim it's a ridiculous question.

You said that you obey local signs or else use the left lane for "straight"; and yet when there's no mention of Fedamore on a sign, you choose to use the right lane.

Enjoy your abitrary lane-jumping, and I'll stick to the absolute rule re 1st & 2nd exits so that there's no guesswork involved.

For the record, I used to use the 12 o clock rule until I realised that people were using it for 1 o'clock - like the Tipp Rd - and all sorts of other random stuff.

The bottom line is that the RSA don't even know. I can back that up with emails from last year.

As McLove said above, I'll do my best to avoid an accident with people doing random rubbish, but if they do something that I'm not expecting (like the "straight on" rule at that Fedamore/Rosbrien flyover) then they'll get blown out of it.

the "signage" is the arrows on the road. It refers to exits, not to destinations.

Liam Byrne

zuroph wrote: »

the "signage" is the arrows on the road. It refers to exits, not to destinations.

Please take the time to read the post that I was commenting on before jumping to incorrect conclusions.

source wrote: »

The sign shows Limerick and Dublin as a block on the left, and Cork, Tralee and Kilarney in a block on the right.

source

Liam Byrne wrote: »

zuroph wrote: »

the "signage" is the arrows on the road. It refers to exits, not to destinations.

Please take the time to read the post that I was commenting on before jumping to incorrect conclusions.

source wrote: »

The sign shows Limerick and Dublin as a block on the left, and Cork, Tralee and Kilarney in a block on the right.

There is no sign for fedamore, to get to the fedamore road, from the point pictured you enter tge right lane and cross the flyover, at the next roundabout you enter the left lane for the first exit (fedamore road) i dont know how better to put it than that.

The reason you couldnt get a definitive answer from the rsa, is because there is no definitive answer....You follow the rules of the road or local signage if the roundabout is different to the standard 4 exit roundabout.

zuroph

Liam Byrne wrote: »

Please take the time to read the post that I was commenting on before jumping to incorrect conclusions.

apologies, didnt read whole thread when I posted! Lesson learned!

Fedamore is on the same road as cork at that sign. right lane.

Liam Byrne

source wrote: »

There is no sign for fedamore, to get to the fedamore road, from the point pictured you enter tge right lane and cross the flyover, at the next roundabout you enter the left lane for the first exit (fedamore road) i dont know how better to put it than that.

OK - look at what you posted.

There is no sign for Fedamore.

You said that you either

a) follow the signs OR
b) use the left lane for "straight" (give or take an arbitrary 5 degrees)

So WHY do you enter the FIRST roundabout in the right lane ?

Since there is no sign for Fedamore, you have no justification (under YOUR rules) for using the right lane at the FIRST roundabout.

I don't know how to point out the flaw in your logic any clearer than that.

Liam Byrne

zuroph wrote: »

apologies, didnt read whole thread when I posted! Lesson learned!

Fedamore is on the same road as cork at that sign. right lane.

Agreed. But that's where source is contradicting themselves.

zuroph

Liam Byrne wrote: »

OK - look at what you posted.

There is no sign for Fedamore.

You said that you either

a) follow the signs OR
b) use the left lane for "straight" (give or take an arbitrary 5 degrees)

So WHY do you enter the FIRST roundabout in the right lane ?

Since there is no sign for Fedamore, you have no justification (under YOUR rules) for using the right lane at the FIRST roundabout.

I don't know how to point out the flaw in your logic any clearer than that.

what if you're going to somewhere along the road to fedamore. or to adare? They cant list EVERY town. the exit they refer to services fedamore, cork and many many other places. They name cork, as a guide to which lane you should be in. say you enter the roundabout in left lane because you're heading to fedamore, and the person heading to Cork enters in right lane as signed, at the same time. can you now see the problem when you both try to exit roundabout?

source

Liam Byrne wrote: »

zuroph wrote: »

apologies, didnt read whole thread when I posted! Lesson learned!

Fedamore is on the same road as cork at that sign. right lane.

Agreed. But that's where source is contradicting themselves.

Liam my posts are quite clear and consistent. I havent changed my point once.

Liam Byrne

zuroph wrote: »

what if you're going to somewhere along the road to fedamore. or to adare? They cant list EVERY town. the exit they refer to services fedamore, cork and many many other places. They name cork, as a guide to which lane you should be in. say you enter the roundabout in left lane because you're heading to fedamore, and the person heading to Cork enters in right lane as signed, at the same time. can you now see the problem when you both try to exit roundabout?

Precisely my point. If you use source's approach based on mentions of signs and angles, then the above arises.

If you use the "left lane = first 2 exits" then it doesn't arise.

Liam Byrne

source wrote: »

Liam my posts are quite clear and consistent. I havent changed my point once.

You have posted absolutely no justification for using the right-hand lane at that roundabout to go to Fedamore, and yet you've said you'd use it.

source

Liam Byrne wrote: »

source wrote: »

There is no sign for fedamore, to get to the fedamore road, from the point pictured you enter tge right lane and cross the flyover, at the next roundabout you enter the left lane for the first exit (fedamore road) i dont know how better to put it than that.

OK - look at what you posted.

There is no sign for Fedamore.

You said that you either

a) follow the signs OR
b) use the left lane for "straight" (give or take an arbitrary 5 degrees)

So WHY do you enter the FIRST roundabout in the right lane ?

Since there is no sign for Fedamore, you have no justification (under YOUR rules) for using the right lane at the FIRST roundabout.

I don't know how to point out the flaw in your logic any clearer than that.

Liam you're clutching at straws here mate.

source

Liam Byrne wrote: »

source wrote: »

Liam my posts are quite clear and consistent. I havent changed my point once.

You have posted absolutely no justification for using the right-hand lane at that roundabout to go to Fedamore, and yet you've said you'd use it.

Its really quite simple to get to fedamore you have to cross the bridge, the right lane which is for cork takes you across the bridge.

zuroph

Liam Byrne wrote: »

Precisely my point. If you use source's approach based on mentions of signs and angles, then the above arises.

If you use the "left lane = first 2 exits" then it doesn't arise.

no, Sources point stands.

Fedamore is IMPLIED as right lane, as its on the same road as cork. the road being the bit over the flyover after the roundabout.

Liam Byrne

OK count me out. If you've to use signs and then not use signs and guess what's implied by signs then it's gonna cause an accident.

The bottom line is that there is no "straight on" rule and there is no "1st & 2nd exit" rule - I have that confirmed by the RSA from an email last year, and contrary to source's claims it does not imply ONLY "when local signage overrules the general rule", because they couldn't answer the RULE that should apply on a non-standard roundabout without local signage to overrule it.

Basically, they don't have a clue what you should do on a roundabout that doesn't have the 4 standard exits and doesn't have extra signage.

zuroph

I dont think I know of a non standardised roundabout with more than 4 exits and no signage?? any example of one in this country??