Swords CC League Race Bog of the Ring 10/8/2011

dario28

Whats the chances of the race going ahead later ?

Beasty

Can't see why it shouldn't. The one we had cancelled a few weeks ago was on atrocious roads with heavy rain and lots of standing water. It's a bit windy and a bit wet, but there's been no heavy downpour, and it may dry up between now and race time

RobFowl

Beasty wrote: »

Can't see why it shouldn't. The one we had cancelled a few weeks ago was on atrocious roads with heavy rain and lots of standing water. It's a bit windy and a bit wet, but there's been no heavy downpour, and it may dry up between now and race time

Rain stopped here as of 1600...
Quite humid but no reason shouldn't go ahead.

RobFowl

Eh sorry as of 1645 fecking trucking it down

Lusk Doyle

RobFowl wrote: »

Eh sorry as of 1645 fecking trucking it down

Man up rob!

RobFowl

Lusk Doyle wrote: »

Man up rob!

I'm on a break.........

Anyway waving a flag tonight !

Lusk Doyle

RobFowl wrote: »

I'm on a break.........

Anyway waving a flag tonight !

Wave at me so!

GlennaMaddy

last chance to try a faster group for anybody who wondered if they'd be up for the faster pace.

My target for the year was scratch, will have to settle for G4, where I've heard Shangil will make an appearance.

Dropped by G3 last week, but I'll put that down to the hilly course and the fact that I'm a fit-fat bstd

killalanerr

hope it gos ahead im keen to get going again after the hols,my summer training camp for my elbow,done a few nice spins while i was away but i a drank a lot of wine,interesting to see how my from has suffered ,but would be nice if it stopped raining

treborm

What time is this starting

manwithaplan

I shall also be flag waving. I will have a time keeper and a photographer with me. Neither are to be trusted but feel free to strike a pose and/or call for time checks.

Edit - sign on from 6.30 but you're safe enough as long as you are there before 7.

Lusk Doyle

Oh they'll talk about that one for some time to come. At least those of them from group two will entertain the rest of us with tales of the mysterious "race leader". Let's call him Batman, for light the dark knight he appeared out of nowhere and chaos ensued!

I await the tales of woe.....

BTW - I barely made two laps. Only one with the group.

kennyb3

Another highly enjoyable wet evening suffering around the roads of NCD. Thanks to all the marshals/officials for turning up esp given the weather.

Hadnt raced in a few weeks with holidays and plan was to try do 3 decent laps, which is how it panned out.

Big group 3 tonight and the pace on the first lap seemed savage, prob more felt that way as i got stuck on the front twice on the first half lap :rolleyes:. It was chucking it down for the 2nd half of the lap and i was swallowing muck and all sorts, with plenty of spray for the eyes too. There was a split on the road to the naul which i didnt really notice happen so had to drill myself to make it across. Averaged 38.1kmph for first lap

2nd lap seemed way slower although we averaged 37.6kmph, i think i prob sat in a bit more and was properly warmed up. Better conditions too helped.

Halway round the 3rd lap i was fecked so my 3 lap plan came into play so i decided to drop off and wait for scratch - wanted to see what half a lap with them felt like. why not experiment like with only 1 race left like. They came past 30 secs later and i jumped on. Only 3 lads left and they were riding hard. Couldnt contribute at all, so just sat in and planned to get towed to the club house. They were catching group 3 so i sat in until they did just before the N1 on the 4th lap. Just sat up then and hurried back to get changed and make the finish. averaged 38.8kmph with the scratchers.

Good to get back racing but legs are in flitters now - very crampy. 3 quality laps was better than sitting in all night imo.

32km @ 37.9kmph for me.

Batman at the finish was gas but not very bright, few lads seemed quite p'issed which is understandable.

Really dont want these races to end, great fun - what else would ya be doing on a wednesday night!!

Beasty

Certainly "interesting" tonight

There was only 1 rider in the first group, and he was given a 3 minute start on Group 2. We really should have caught him during the first lap, but half-way round he still had a lead of well over 2 minutes

Basically Group 2's work was spasmodic to say the least. We got the up and overs working some of the time, but early on there were probably 4 or 5 from a group of around 10 properly taking their turns. By lap 2 this had dercreased to maybe 3 or 4, and about a third of the way round someone I did not recognise from the group shot past - surely he's not from Group 3? He's not been hiding at the back has he? He had a race number on, and pushed on at the front. A couple of riders tried to chase him down, but he managed to stay clear.

I checked with some others "Is he in the race?" "Don't think so" was the reply but we really did not know. Anyway h managed to stay a couple of hundred metres ahead. The lead car went past him - maybe he is in the race after all?

We managed to get past the Group 1 guy just past halfway round the second lap. Riders were still not taking their turns. By lap 3 a couple of us were doing most of the work, and that's the way it stayed. We were lapping around 25s slower than the last time we did this course 3 weeks ago (and about 30s per lap slower than when we managed to stay away a couple of months ago), and were caught by the other groups with just under half a lap to go. If we'd managed to half the time deficit compared to last time, I'm sure we would have stayed away, but it was not to be

I managed to get well positioned for the sprint, but did not have much left to have a go, and ended up rolling in towards the back of the Group

On checking, "Batman" was not in the race - he had decided to join in after the first lap!

Lusk Doyle

With a number on his back?!? WTF?

Banned for three races would be my stance on behavior like that.

Beasty

.... but if we start issuing bans for "improper conduct" I'll probably be missing the next 5 for some of my post-race "comments"....:o

(unrelated to "Batman", I might add)

Lusk Doyle

Beasty wrote: »

.... but if we start issuing bans for "improper conduct" I'll probably be missing the next 5 for some of my post-race "comments"....:o

(unrelated to "Batman", I might add)

No you'll just get fined!

killalanerr

well after my lay off i wasnt sure what to expect tonight,i was in group 2 which is the group i have been put in by the club after i was moved up from group 1 during the season as this is my first year ,the only reason i mention this is that it became a matter of great debate after the race
any way i rode over to the bog into a head wind and misty rain i felt like just turning around and heading home again,we set off in a small group 2 my plan was to do what i could but my main priority was to get some racing miles in the legs and try to get back up to speed,for the first lap and a bit i was doing my fair share as the big scary man was shouting a lot and i was afraid to miss a turn, as the race got into the 2nd half i was starting to feel it so i didnt go through as much,batman appeared on lap 2 out of no where and shot up the cricket club hill i managed to hold his wheel but we had pulled away from the group so i eased up and waited for the guys to come up to me he dangled off the front for the rest of the race not sure what the story is with him ,on the last lap the lead motor bike were just behind us but in fairness beasty and a few other done some super work and it took them a long time to catch us and when they did they didnt shoot past as they normally do they had a hard chase
so with the race all together i started to think about the finish i knew if i stayed near the front on the inside out of the wind i might pick up some points if it opened up for me,long socks was infront of me a gap open in front of him for a moment but he didnt go for it i knew then we would not be sprinting for the top places but when he did go he gave me the perfect lead and i hit the line flat out and i managed to pick up 5th well pleased
may be im doing this training thing all wrong cos for the last 17 days i have downed a full bottle of red and some beers and sat up till 2am putting the world to rights :rolleyes:

Beasty

killalanerr wrote: »

the big scary man was shouting a lot

the shouting during the race was aimed soley at trying to get riders to come through as there were some very long spells when 2 or 3 of us were dragging everyone else along (for the lap or so before we were caught there were 2 of us doing a significant majority of the work at the front). I reckon that if we'd got the up and overs working properly on the long "straights" we would have stayed away. As it was we probably had them working for probably less than 25% of the time (not everyone coming through still) which was maybe a third of what we should have been able to do

The shouting after the race was definitely a big mistake from me ...

RobFowl

Beasty wrote: »

The shouting after the race was definitely a big mistake from me ...

We all do it at some stage even the most unassuming cyclists see the "red mist" at times.

A good friend of mine who is much more talented said he'd sit on with absolutely no qualms at all if he didn't feel up to working through but in that case would never even consider sprinting for the win.

Personally have finished second in races on at least 7 occasions where the winner sat on for most if not all the race. Does my fcuking head in but people do cycling and racing for differing reasons and with differing aims.

It's worth noting Laurent Fignon considered Greg Lemond a wheelsucker .....

GlennaMaddy

RobFowl wrote: »

Beasty wrote: »

The shouting after the race was definitely a big mistake from me ...

It's worth noting Laurent Fignon considered Greg Lemond a wheelsucker .....

I'D say Kelly does too, remember the worlds?

RobFowl

GlennaMaddy wrote: »

I'D say Kelly does too, remember the worlds?

Kelly maintains if he have put on a 12 instead of a 13 he'd have won ......

Planet X

RobFowl wrote: »

We all do it at some stage even the most unassuming cyclists see the "red mist" at times.

A good friend of mine who is much more talented than I, said he'd sit on with absolutely no qualms at all if he didn't feel up to working through but in that case would never even consider sprinting for the win.

Personally have finished second in races on at least 7 occasions where the winner sat on for most if not all the race. Does my fcuking head in but people do cycling and racing for differing reasons and with differing aims.

It's worth noting Laurent Fignon considered Greg Lemond a wheelsucker .....

In my opinion, Mark Cavendish would be one of those, BUT, gets great results, drifts down the back for 90% of the race and pops up, in cotton wool, for the last 25k (or whatever).
So, what do you do?
I've tried both angles, ish. Tried this year, and only this year, sitting on the back for one or two races and felt like a tool. Feels bad. Prefer to be on the front'ish area and kicking. Also been told in the last couple of years, Vets. racing, to "cool the jets".


Been in the Vets for the last 4 yrs. or so, in the same group (never trained enough to get out of the group like this year ), but I see the same jazz going on, guys on the back, (certain guys will die screaming in the "7th Level of Hell') and pop up with 5k to go and sail past in the sprint.

My first year in the Vets and I was getting a bollicking from the "Old Hands" to get the f up and on the front.

It's all TicTacs (tactics, sic) from the old hands to get them around and deliver them to the front, and then they cut you up.
I've been in some "cut up's" with the old hands.
Alot of crashes this year in the Vets. unfortunately.


I've shouted at lads in the bunch. It doesn't work.
You need to build up a killer sprint in off season to deal with it.

Don't look at me........

GlennaMaddy

Wheelsucking in a handicapped club league is the lowest form of wheelsucking, especially when the handicapping is fair. The only time it's acceptable is when somebody is hanging on by their fingernails.

GlennaMaddy

GlennaMaddy wrote: »

last chance to try a faster group for anybody who wondered if they'd be up for the faster pace.

No takers then! In fact all of G4, except two, wussed out and joined G3 with some impressive excuses, leaving me and the other G4 guy and 3 scratch riders behind. First lap was hit'n'miss, when it was fast it was really fast, and when the line broke up it there was a definite lull. My speedo wasn't working but the speeds we were doing gave me a great buzz while it lasted. Got dropped after an involuntary extra turn at the front. I might have lasted another lap had I been a bit more conservative but I felt that myself and the other G4 guy were causing enough disruptions as it was already. I definitely would have lasted the full race if the group was as big as the others. Got a good workout I suppose and good preparation for sunday's race in Donor/Droghed -this might be the last chance to try open racing this year for some, so, I ask againo any takers?

Beasty

TBH, the wheelsucking does not particularly bother me. I do think we missed a great opportunity to stay away though, but it wasn't to be. I still managed a great workout though

My "red mist" last night was because of a specific issue, where I got my facts wrong, so apologies to anyone who may have encountered my abusive rant after the race

kennyb3

GlennaMaddy wrote: »

Donor/Droghed -this might be the last chance to try open racing this year for some, so, I ask againo any takers?

Is this on the mark mullen circuit? i had in my head it was the evening so i was out but i see now its at 12 now so i'd love to give it a go and see what the form is like against the A3's seen as its a combined A3/A4 race (i think)

GlennaMaddy

kennyb3 wrote: »

Is this on the mark mullen circuit? i had in my head it was the evening so i was out but i see now its at 12 now so i'd love to give it a go and see what the form is like against the A3's seen as its a combined A3/A4 race (i think)

The circut is Donore -> Plattin Cement works -> Donore-Drogheda Rd -> Donore, they use if for a few races and the Monday night league. Not one for the climbers, but not one for the sprinters either.

GlennaMaddy

Beasty wrote: »

. I do think we missed a great opportunity to stay away though, but it wasn't to be.

You certainly did, the handicap from the last group to the next group was only 45 seconds, but the small size of the last group meant it took nearly the whole race to close it down. Only three out of the last group made it across.

shaungil

Group3 for me after bailing on Group 4 when I saw the 2 scratch riders were going with it. Just not able for the pace of those lads yet I'm afraid.

Hard first lap tried to do a fair bit with 4 or 5 working ,it slowed then and other bodies came through pace line still a bit messy. Was strong near the front but feeling the pain. Scratch caught with 1 lap to go and I was sitting on the back and brutal around the dodgiest corner so was nearly dropped. Sat in for the rest and then slowly mved up group on Bog Road.

As an interloper in the group it wasn't right for me to contest the sprint so just stuck on wheels but was 8th I think.

Person who joined race late and then attacked will be hearing about it from me. Is disrespectful to other racers and defo would have hindered Group 2 from staying away. If you turn up late you work with a group maybe but really you should sit on the back. Got in the way at the end in sprint and should know better.

Season nearly over now so hard to know if it's worth the pain of trying to get fit again. Sore today. Glenn sorry for bailing but wouldn't have been able for it.

kennyb3

@ shaungil, you did some savage work on the first lap in particular. Man you know how to suffer like a dog, you could tell it was hard at times but you kept gritting the teeth grinding away. ( I was in the black katusha shorts btw).

The few group 4 lads defo made it a good test last night for the rest of us in that group (only my 2nd race in it) but it made a great workout.

The pace line was hard to understand at times though. I rode through up the right, then drifted back on the left only to be asked was i afraid of the front - so rode through on the left then too. So two good turns in 5 mins and i was smashed to bits then.

RobFowl

shaungil wrote: »

Person who joined race late and then attacked will be hearing about it from me. Is disrespectful to other racers and defo would have hindered Group 2 from staying away. If you turn up late you work with a group maybe but really you should sit on the back. Got in the way at the end in sprint and should know better.

Season nearly over now so hard to know if it's worth the pain of trying to get fit again. Sore today. Glenn sorry for bailing but wouldn't have been able for it.

Person who joined late simply wrong on every level. Not covered by CI insurance for a start so if he caused a crash could have been personally liable.
Also bad form on every sporting criteria.

shaungil

Pace line was messy alright. I tried to organise at one stage to get the rider in second to push thru so we could start again . He told me to F off, lucky he drives the flashing motorbike!

Then on the bog road the win was coming from the right so Mick started to get the pace line to come up on the left , worked for a while then didn't. Too many lads going too hard too long at the front and then lads afraid to go round. Conditions didn't help either when it started lashing I reckoned the safest place to be was in front.

Hopefully Batman gets a ban will leave that with the committee members. What a spanner.

Hungrycol

Leave Batman alone now. Sounding like a witchhunt on here. He's new to racing and makes some mistakes like all of us. He's a nice guy and would be very apologetic if he knew he was in the in the wrong. I think Long socks made more dangerous mistakes at the beginnig of the league.

Don't worry Beasty you weren't that bad at the finish. You were just still jee'ed up from the race.

Crappy night for marshalling.

goldencleric

Can someone please clarify who batman was exactly?

Beasty

I did have a word with Batman after the race, and do believe he understands what he did was wrong. A quiet word from Joe or Sam is all that it needs. He actually did very well to stay ahead of us for so long, and it would have been better if he did his own thing behind us (although the race number was the confusing point, and he could then have caused problems for the next grouo)

TBH, he wasn't the only "imposter" in the race - we passed someone in Swords gear on the main road. I didn't realise he'd latched on to us. 5-10 minutes later I saw him in the middle of our group (he had no number, although he could have been a lap down) and asked him if he was in the race. He said no, so I just asked him not to spoil it for the rest of us (either giving us an unfair advantage, or leading us to believe he was a competitor), and I didn't see him again

Beasty

goldencleric wrote: »

Can someone please clarify who batman was exactly?

Not going to name names here, but he was a rider who is new to racing this season, and confused the hell out of us by overtaking Group 2 and then staying a couple of hundred meters up the road - as I posted previously it caused some riders to try and close him down, and disrupted the Group for a while

Lusk Doyle

I love the fact that my name for him has stuck

Batman!

Lusk Doyle

Beasty wrote: »

Not going to name names here, but he was a rider who is new to racing this season, and confused the hell out of us by overtaking Group 2 and then staying a couple of hundred meters up the road - as I posted previously it caused some riders to try and close him down, and disrupted the Group for a while

Suffice to say he has a penchant to a particular brand of energy provider.

goldencleric

Beasty wrote: »

Not going to name names here, but he was a rider who is new to racing this season, and confused the hell out of us by overtaking Group 2 and then staying a couple of hundred meters up the road - as I posted previously it caused some riders to try and close him down, and disrupted the Group for a while

Ah I know who you are talking about, it was myself who he passed first (I was the lone group1 rider) - I was wondering because I didn't see him with group 2 at the start.

goldencleric

Lusk Doyle wrote: »

Suffice to say he has a penchant to a particular brand of energy provider.

The batman moniker confused me - there was a rider wearing all back in group 3 with no race number who I'm pretty sure I passed on the other side of the road when I was out on front.

midonogh

Lusk Doyle wrote: »

I love the fact that my name for him has stuck

Batman!

`
Is Batman also sometimes known as Forrest Gump?

Lusk Doyle

goldencleric wrote: »

The batman moniker confused me - there was a rider wearing all back in group 3 with no race number who I'm pretty sure I passed on the other side of the road when I was out on front.

I think that you are right about that other rider also having thought about it. I'm nearly 100% certain that he was not in group three when we started or group two for that matter.

For clarity, we shall call him Batman Returns

Lusk Doyle

midonogh wrote: »

`
Is Batman also sometimes known as Forrest Gump?

Don't know but lets be clear here - the use of the name batman was not to poke fun or open said person up to be ridiculed. It would be poor form for this discussion to descend into something like that.

Beasty

goldencleric wrote: »

Ah I know who you are talking about, it was myself who he passed first (I was the lone group1 rider) - I was wondering because I didn't see him with group 2 at the start.

Well done on staying away for so long - I was the one talking to you just before you set off and trying to get you to hang on when we came past. Did you manage to stick with us at all?

kennyb3

goldencleric wrote: »

The batman moniker confused me - there was a rider wearing all back in group 3 with no race number who I'm pretty sure I passed on the other side of the road when I was out on front.

+1, i was confused by that rider. At one point he went flying past group 3 like it was a sprint yet i was sure he hadnt started with us and there was no other scratch riders in view.

Beasty wrote: »

Well done on staying away for so long

+1, you did a good job GC. Cant have been easy out there on your own on such a night.

goldencleric

Beasty wrote: »

Well done on staying away for so long - I was the one talking to you just before you set off and trying to get you to hang on when we came past. Did you manage to stick with us at all?

kennyb3 wrote: »

+1, you did a good job GC. Cant have been easy out there on your own on such a night.

Ah nice to meet you Beasty, thanks to you and another chap in the group for the encouragement when I was caught. I did manage to hang on at the very back until the M1 flyover at the start of third lap, but as soon as the road went up I was done. G3 overtook not long after, just after the hill at the cricket club, could only hold the wheels for about a K. Pulled off at the end of the third lap unfortunately.

It was definitely the most enjoyable race so far for me, owing to the Belgian- conditions and the solo composition of group 1. First time I really felt like I had good legs so far, just a shame my debut season has to come to end in a few weeks!

Strangely enjoyed it actually, being out front in the rain. Felt like a real classics situation

Beasty

Sounds like there may have been at least 3 "interlopers" last night

Perhaps we need to enforce the "race number" rule - you must have one to sign on and race, and you should only wear it during the race if you're in the race. I suspect that may be a condition of insurance anyway. In fact another of our group was actually wearing his IVCA number (come to think about it, 2 riders were) - not sure if this is "valid", but at least it distinguishes racers from non-racers

Joe always has some "spares" if someone forgets one on the night ...

Beasty

goldencleric wrote: »

Strangely enjoyed it actually, being out front in the rain. Felt like a real classics situation

Next time you find yourself on your own I think me and the other guy who spent a significant amount of his time on the front last night should be allowed to drop down, and we'll make a team TT out of it;)

chakattack

I wasn't there last night but sounds like wet, windy, painful fun - superheroes and all.

So someone joined the race a lap down and attacked flat out? I can see both sides, pain in the ass for someone looking for some league points thinking they have to chase down a "break" but a bit of leg testing and training for the "perpetrator".

Did he sign on late or just join the peleton fom the road?

Beasty

My understanding is he was "not in the race". Late sign-ons are not allowed.

As pointed out by RobFowl already, this means he is not insured, and must not take part in the race. If he wants to dawdle round the circuit on his own, all well and good - anyone is permitted to cycle those roads, but he should never have given the impression he was in the race - it disrupted those who were taking part