Freeman Megamerge

littlemac1980

Losty Dublin wrote: »

The fig in the fig roll with the magic money thing is this; if banks can make money out of thin air then why are they bothering trying to make money on transaction charges, interest on loans, overdraft fees when they can make it on a computer? Why waste time on customers when it's that easy to rake it in?

Oh come on!!! isn't it obvious - sure if they did that, everyone would cop on very quick that they were just making up money.

The really ingenious thing about how the banks are making this scam work for them is that they loan the "makey believy" money to people who can't afford to pay it back, so they get to then pursue those poor people through the Courts (who are also clearly in on the scam) to force them to pay back "real" money to the banks.

They don't always get back the amount of imaginary money they "loaned" but they get some real money back - so its effectively money laundering - except instead of legitimising money from a dubious source, its replacing imaginary money on your books with (albeit less) real money from distressed borrowers.

Of course its all total nonsense at the same time.

Losty Dublin

littlemac1980 wrote: »

Oh come on!!! isn't it obvious - sure if they did that, everyone would cop on very quick that they were just making up money.

The really ingenious thing about how the banks are making this scam work for them is that they loan the "makey believy" money to people who can't afford to pay it back, so they get to then pursue those poor people through the Courts (who are also clearly in on the scam) to force them to pay back "real" money to the banks.

They don't always get back the amount of imaginary money they "loaned" but they get some real money back - so its effectively money laundering - except instead of legitimising money from a dubious source, its replacing imaginary money on your books with (albeit less) real money from distressed borrowers.

Of course its all total nonsense at the same time.

Ingenious! I bet some sneaky Freemason invented that printing press.

johnciall

SpaceSasqwatch wrote: »

if you were gonna give these chancers the benefit of the doubt you could say they were too miserable to pay the 25 euro google developer license fee....:pac:

Have the .apk downloaded at home so will throw it on my test phone and see what permissions it needs.Could be interesting:cool:

and how much are the iOS developer fees?

whippet

To give you an insight in to what sort of arguments the Hub etc are using in court have a read of this one from this case -

https://www.facebook.com/permalink.php?story_fbid=814342258631800&id=780846011981425&fref=nf

to me it smacks of the 'lay litigant' handing in paperwork which is just a rambling mess of emotion, waffle, skewed points of law etc and the court just getting annoyed with having to entertain it.

SpaceSasqwatch

johnciall wrote: »

and how much are the iOS developer fees?

iirc 99 $

Uno my Uno.

whippet wrote: »

To give you an insight in to what sort of arguments the Hub etc are using in court have a read of this one from this case -

https://www.facebook.com/permalink.php?story_fbid=814342258631800&id=780846011981425&fref=nf

to me it smacks of the 'lay litigant' handing in paperwork which is just a rambling mess of emotion, waffle, skewed points of law etc and the court just getting annoyed with having to entertain it.

To be honest that makes for sad reading, the poster is entirely unequipped to deal with the matter and is in desperate need of legal representation. It is a disgrace that free legal aid is not available for people in her situation. Whilst this may be a civil matter she and her husband will no doubt soon be seeking the assistance of the Local Housing authority, a false economy surely.

What is just as concerning is that it appears that there are peopel posing as legal advisers, McKenzie Friends or similar who are taking payment for advising people such as her to attempt to defend actions themselves. People like the elderly couple who made the front pages last year are misguided at best, on one occasion last year I was in Court where that gentleman opposed a motion and sought an adjournment because he was, as he put it "looking for sympathy."

Needless to say Judge Linanne was not feeling sympathetic. Like many Judges, she expects you to have your affairs in order when you appear before her regardless of your position as professional or lay litigant.

Aka Ishur

Uno my Uno. wrote: »

To be honest that makes for sad reading, the poster is entirely unequipped to deal with the matter and is in desperate need of legal representation. It is a disgrace that free legal aid is not available for people in her situation. Whilst this may be a civil matter she and her husband will no doubt soon be seeking the assistance of the Local Housing authority, a false economy surely....

As the outcome would end up being the same (pay up or get out) surely offering free legal aid is throwing good money after bad.

Not a comment on the right to legal aid just that saying that having state pay for said aid will somehow save money later is false.

Fred Swanson

This post has been deleted.

conorh91

Nice 'How To Deal With Freemen'-type article in a recent edition of the Commerical Law Practitioner by Tomás Keys BL. Mentions a few loony arguments I hadn't previously encountered elsewhere.

"Each jurisdiction has its own brand of Freeman on the Land (FOTL)/Organised Pseudolegal Commercial Arguments (OPCA) litigant or guru with a slight variation on the theme. In Ireland, many FOTL litigants describe themselves as “a freeman of Éire”. […] The Bar Council of Ireland is sometimes referred to as the “BAR” (which apparently stands for “British Accredited Registry”). It is claimed that members of the BAR have sworn an oath of fealty to the Queen of England.

There are also notices posted close to Four Courts on an occasional basis which call upon members of the BAR and the sheriff to vacate their office as there is no provision for their offices in the Constitution. There is no mention of doctors, nurses or teachers in Bunreacht na hÉireann, but there aren't any calls for them to vacate their offices. Other arguments raised by the FOTL/OPCA litigant are that there are not enough strings on the harp displayed in court rooms and therefore the courts have no jurisdiction."

Robbo

I see that the Hub managed to do a little press conference down in Cork this week.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0SzugENn0pU

So now we know that Byron is in the hole for €750,000 which he disputes for the usual fake reasons; securitisation, the imagined tort of reckless lending and that he had to go to a subprime lender in the first place. Let's also not forget that for someone who's dishing out the advice and telling people to defend these things as lay litigants, Byron did go to real solicitors when his own backside was in the bacon slicer. They managed to have the matter thrown out of the Master's list after numerous appearances.

Uno my Uno.

Aka Ishur wrote: »

As the outcome would end up being the same (pay up or get out) surely offering free legal aid is throwing good money after bad.

Not a comment on the right to legal aid just that saying that having state pay for said aid will somehow save money later is false.

Its not correct to say that any of these cases are forgone conclusions, it is entirely possible that in many of these cases professional legal representation could result in different outcomes. certainly different to having the court's time and resources wasted dealing with freemanesque nonsense arguments with inappropriate pleadings and affidavits.

I believe that proper legal advice could result in alternative solutions being found in many cases. If not it might in fact lead to lower costs as invariably the costs of both sides are awarded against the borrower including the costs of dealing with all the incorrect pleadings and misguided motions.

Uno my Uno.

conorh91 wrote: »

Nice 'How To Deal With Freemen'-type article in a recent edition of the Commerical Law Practitioner by Tomás Keys BL. Mentions a few loony arguments I hadn't previously encountered elsewhere.

"Each jurisdiction has its own brand of Freeman on the Land (FOTL)/Organised Pseudolegal Commercial Arguments (OPCA) litigant or guru with a slight variation on the theme. In Ireland, many FOTL litigants describe themselves as “a freeman of Éire”. […] The Bar Council of Ireland is sometimes referred to as the “BAR” (which apparently stands for “British Accredited Registry”). It is claimed that members of the BAR have sworn an oath of fealty to the Queen of England.

There are also notices posted close to Four Courts on an occasional basis which call upon members of the BAR and the sheriff to vacate their office as there is no provision for their offices in the Constitution. There is no mention of doctors, nurses or teachers in Bunreacht na hÉireann, but there aren't any calls for them to vacate their offices. Other arguments raised by the FOTL/OPCA litigant are that there are not enough strings on the harp displayed in court rooms and therefore the courts have no jurisdiction."

An old mate of mine, I must give it a read!

whippet

Robbo wrote: »

So now we know that Byron is in the hole for €750,000 which he disputes for the usual fake reasons; securitisation, the imagined tort of reckless lending and that he had to go to a subprime lender in the first place. Let's also not forget that for someone who's dishing out the advice and telling people to defend these things as lay litigants, Byron did go to real solicitors when his own backside was in the bacon slicer. They managed to have the matter thrown out of the Master's list after numerous appearances.

what stuck out to me is his claim that he is having the time of his life. It re-enforces my contention that the leaders of these sham groups have one motivation and that is for themselves. He is in the hole for €0.75m and has absolutely no intention of every paying it back or giving over the security that he put up for it. He can set up a following of minions who hang off his every word .. keep the donations rolling in .. keep himself busy and all the while have people hollering and whooping when he enters the room while not having to pay his way.

Thargor

Robbo wrote: »

I see that the Hub managed to do a little press conference down in Cork this week.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0SzugENn0pU

So now we know that Byron is in the hole for €750,000 which he disputes for the usual fake reasons; securitisation, the imagined tort of reckless lending and that he had to go to a subprime lender in the first place. Let's also not forget that for someone who's dishing out the advice and telling people to defend these things as lay litigants, Byron did go to real solicitors when his own backside was in the bacon slicer. They managed to have the matter thrown out of the Master's list after numerous appearances.

What happens then? Is there a chance of him getting to keep the money?

Robbo

conorh91 wrote: »

Nice 'How To Deal With Freemen'-type article in a recent edition of the Commerical Law Practitioner by Tomás Keys BL. Mentions a few loony arguments I hadn't previously encountered elsewhere.

"Each jurisdiction has its own brand of Freeman on the Land (FOTL)/Organised Pseudolegal Commercial Arguments (OPCA) litigant or guru with a slight variation on the theme. In Ireland, many FOTL litigants describe themselves as “a freeman of Éire”. […] The Bar Council of Ireland is sometimes referred to as the “BAR” (which apparently stands for “British Accredited Registry”). It is claimed that members of the BAR have sworn an oath of fealty to the Queen of England.

There are also notices posted close to Four Courts on an occasional basis which call upon members of the BAR and the sheriff to vacate their office as there is no provision for their offices in the Constitution. There is no mention of doctors, nurses or teachers in Bunreacht na hÉireann, but there aren't any calls for them to vacate their offices. Other arguments raised by the FOTL/OPCA litigant are that there are not enough strings on the harp displayed in court rooms and therefore the courts have no jurisdiction."

A nice comprehensive article in two parts; far more depth than the Law Society Gazette gave it. Most of it (and related commentary) was familiar but there were some interesting cases cited that I wasn't aware of, in particular that UK family law one where the cranks were making some insane allegations of child abuse.

I found it interesting to note that Ben's new favourite scheme of being appointed power of attorney is noted as only extending to granting a right of audience.

Robbo

Thargor wrote: »

What happens then? Is there a chance of him getting to keep the money?

No. It just means that the bank have failed to get a summary judgment against him. Generally, if there's even a hint of there being a legitimate dispute in a matter, the Master won't give summary judgment and he lets a judge decide matters.

whippet

Robbo wrote: »

No. It just means that the bank have failed to get a summary judgment against him. Generally, if there's even a hint of there being a legitimate dispute in a matter, the Master won't give summary judgment and he lets a judge decide matters.

is this what the likes of the land league and the hub are claiming as victories? when they talk about success really they are just clogging up court time and pushing the inevitable further down the line?

Robbo

whippet wrote: »

is this what the likes of the land league and the hub are claiming as victories? when they talk about success really they are just clogging up court time and pushing the inevitable further down the line?

I'd offer that it's the result in at least 99% of their cases. The Hub have previously admitted as much in that all they can offer is delay. All of this gets bundled into a rising costs bill which will ultimately fall upon the borrower.

The Land League tend to specialise more in mob rule.

For Forks Sake

http://www.tirnasaor.com/forum/topics/irish-government-in-a-panic-as-activism-goes-mainstream?xg_source=activity

Uno my Uno.

For Forks Sake wrote: »

http://www.tirnasaor.com/forum/topics/irish-government-in-a-panic-as-activism-goes-mainstream?xg_source=activity

MMMMM the Ironing is truly delicious. Seriously the first few paragraphs are so deeply ironic i almost laughed out loud.

Losty Dublin

For Forks Sake wrote: »

http://www.tirnasaor.com/forum/topics/irish-government-in-a-panic-as-activism-goes-mainstream?xg_source=activity

From the link.

"The cancerous Irish Government have also employed people to comment on internet sites as a smear campaign against protestors (the Irish people), using YOUR tax money to do it.

I'm a State employee and am livid to hear of the use of scab labour to make such comments :mad:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RomPjp3ydek

Robbo

If anyone's around the Master's Court tomorrow, it appears that the Hub are going to roll their own promissory notes. So a chap who has no intention of paying back the banks (by his own admission) is going to start issuing IOUs backed by a ball of smoke, unilaterally and expects them to be accepted. Seems legit.

jd

Robbo wrote: »

If anyone's around the Master's Court tomorrow, it appears that the Hub are going to roll their own promissory notes. So a chap who has no intention of paying back the banks (by his own admission) is going to start issuing IOUs backed by a ball of smoke, unilaterally and expects them to be accepted. Seems legit.

But won't this probably get kicked on to the High Court, but in the mean time the hub etc will claim it as a victory?

FreudianSlippers

jd wrote: »

But won't this probably get kicked on to the High Court, but in the mean time the hub etc will claim it as a victory?

Depends on the Master's mood, but I'd expect him to have a good bit of fun taking the piss out of them.

Little CuChulainn

Does anyone know how I can get one of those paid jobs to slag off Freemen on the net? It sounds pretty dreamy as jobs go.

Robbo

Little CuChulainn wrote: »

Does anyone know how I can get one of those paid jobs to slag off Freemen on the net? It sounds pretty dreamy as jobs go.

Don't mean to brag but the Lizard People are paying me seven figures for this kind of work.

Looks like the Hub's homebaked promissory note won't see action today. Obviously because it contained such dazzling lawyerisin' that the bank knew they'd have to pay out millions were it unleashed on the world.

FreudianSlippers

FreudianSlippers wrote: »

Depends on the Master's mood, but I'd expect him to have a good bit of fun taking the piss out of them.

Don't be so sure. They got the idea from one of his newspaper pieces if memory serves me. Might enjoy the chance to push his idea into the High Court

Reg'stoy

Robbo wrote: »

If anyone's around the Master's Court tomorrow, it appears that the Hub are going to start issuing IOUs backed by a ball of smoke, unilaterally and expects them to be accepted. Seems legit.

Robbo wrote: »

Looks like the Hub's homebaked promissory note won't see action today. Obviously because it contained such dazzling lawyerisin' that the bank knew they'd have to pay out millions were it unleashed on the world.

Say it ain't so Robbo, I've just gotten off the phone with Sky and UPC saying I would be using such a promissory note to cover my next ten years subscriptions. The two agents seemed to accept my promise as no further conversation was required because they ended the call there and then.

On a more serious note, I would imagine only actual paper money is accepted as payment for services rendered by the Hub and a no win no fee arrangement cannot be negotiated for their legal skills (sic).

whippet

Reg'stoy wrote: »

Say it ain't so Robbo, I've just gotten off the phone with Sky and UPC saying I would be using such a promissory note to cover my next ten years subscriptions. The two agents seemed to accept my promise as no further conversation was required because they ended the call there and then.

On a more serious note, I would imagine only actual paper money is accepted as payment for services rendered by the Hub and a no win no fee arrangement cannot be negotiated for their legal skills (sic).

They might be open to accepting BitNote as a digital form of payment. Rather than having to procure paper to make the note just an email will suffice.

ArmaniJeanss

Just a reminder to you all that Lay Litigation Ireland are starting their 3 module introduction to law course tomorrow night upstairs in Slatterys Capel Street if any of ye legal types want your education upscaled. Just €150 for the three weeks.
During the course of these modules they "will also be setting up a mock court where the lay litigant will get to have a practise run at a court application in front of qualified and experienced legal people".

https://www.facebook.com/Laylitigation/posts/344655925736210